View Full Version : Do you think T206 cards....
Blunder19
08-05-2010, 09:26 PM
I was wondering if anyone else had thought about... or been concerned with a chance that some t206 cards might have skinned off backs and then possibly printed over with rare backs...
Is that possible? I would image with the discovery of the fake old mill overprint back that it might be... and if it is possible.. how would we be able to detect the fake..
My recent Uzit purchase had me a little suspicious. The back has alot of wear but seems to be mostly intact only around all the letters... it seems the letters are in better condition then the rest of the back... Im not sure if You can see from the pic... I can tell better under magnification...
The card checks out at SGC Pop report.. and getting that past a major grading company I hope would not be possible...
Was wondering what anyone else thought on this issue... ever heard of a card being skinned and somehow redone with a rare back.. then encapsuled?
Take a look at the back of my card and maybe you can see what I am talking about... the best way to describe it is that the back looks like there is paper loss everywhere except where the ink of the letters are... the paperloss is in between the holes of the letters "R" "B' "O" "E"...but not where the ink is.. looks strange
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg309/blunder19/UZITBACK.jpg
Am I crazy or is this possible?
where the gold at?
08-05-2010, 09:55 PM
a bag of what ever you are smoking because it seems great and i don't want to miss out on this!
ethicsprof
08-05-2010, 10:02 PM
it does happen, i'm sorry to say.
but from what i see here, i'd say that you're fine.
i'm glad that you finally got your UZIT.
best,
barry
usernamealreadytaken
08-06-2010, 07:56 AM
J.- By my way of thinking, a reback is to swap a good back with a rare/valuable or better-conditioned front. No sense to risk skinning a Uzit back just to put on a "gruff" looking common front. Looking at the front of the card from your post in the p/u thread, back and front are consistantly worn. Good snag at half-a-grand (imo). -C.
T206Collector
08-06-2010, 07:57 AM
...will reback rare backs on great fronts (e.g., on a Cobb front), but otherwise there really is no reason to do it. Also, while I'm sure SGC has missed on this front in the past, I think you're pretty safe trusting in them as a general rule.
Blunder19
08-06-2010, 08:09 AM
"where the gold at"... I just came back from jamaica and the stuff they smoke will have you buzzed for a week :)
Barry and Chris.. thanks for checking out the card and letting me know its ok..
But i just want to clear up that I didnt mean I thought this card was re-backed by taking a fake back and applying it to a real front...(two different pieces of paper carefully attached)
I was asking if anyone has heard of a common back being shaved off... and then someone being able to print a rare back on the newly shaved back..so printing on the back of the original card.... you would need some sort of an Uzit template for this... but if the t206museum guy was able to print the exact overstamp on the old mill back.. then I would imagine its possible that cards out there could have carefuly shaved backs and then been printed over with a rare back template...
am I still explaining this poorly? it feels like it.. has anyone ever run into that type of fraud on t206s?
T206Collector
08-06-2010, 08:16 AM
The trick would be to bleach out the ink on the back and then reprint a scarce back on the reverse. I'm sure it could be done with varying degrees of success. And could probably get past even SGC if done well.
Heck, you could take some pretty beat up Red Cobbs and then print the Cobb back on the reverse.
I don't think you should worry about it, however. Though I can see what you are concerned -- the reverse of that UZIT does look like a back that has been skinned. Though I really, seriously would doubt that you're dealing with a forgery.
bbcard1
08-06-2010, 09:30 AM
I have a green background Cobb I suspect has been rebacked, (with a piedmont back) I think it probably came out of a scrapbook and the back separted and someone at sometime glued it on another back. It looks good..both parts are legit and it has fine eye appeal. i have no doubt it is "legit" in a sense of speaking and I paid about 5% of book value for a green background cobb, such as it is, with good eye appeal. I am ok with it, but I also realize if I want to sell it the market will be limited. I figure what I paid more than mitigates that.
Bosox Blair
08-06-2010, 11:23 AM
Frankly, I'm shocked this issue does not come up much more often given that the new rage seems to be T206 back collecting...have you guys really not heard of this before as a serious issue?
The first conversation I had with a big-time T206 dealer over 20 years ago, he told me not to focus much on backs as there were a ton of fakes out there created by rebacking and/or reprinting of backs. It is possible, even probable, that TPGs have helped to cut down on this, but this has been a long-standing issue...
Cheers,
Blair
Re-Printing a new back would be basically impossible to do right IMO.
But its easy to skin 2 cards and Frankenstein them together.
There in no red flags on the Uzit back at all, its what a worn example should look like.
Funny thing is some of these Frankenstein cards have made news in the past as new discoveries, ie the T206 Wagner batting which was really a caramel card combines with a T206 back. Funny how it would fool some experts back in the 1970's, the caption design is not even close. Also there was at least one "Hustler" rebacked T206 too.
The more recent one would be the T206 Matty port with the red Hindu back from a few years ago. If I remember right, its was an impossible back but was graded by PSA at one time.
teetwoohsix
08-06-2010, 01:12 PM
I can't see how re-backing (or re-fronting) would be easy for someone to pull off. I would think that there would be some dead giveaways one would see.......I'd be more concerened about someone doing what T206Collector said- bleaching out the backside and printing out a rare back in place of the old common one,,,,now that's scary.
Clayton
Someone please bleach the back of a T Tobacco card (even nonsport) and show me a before and after pic...
There are E145 (Cracker Jack) cards that have been bleached to remove stains and make borders whiter, but they are easy to spot.
If it was so easily done (bleaching 100% of the ink), then why in heck arent there more "doctored" blank backed T206's floating around ??
A blank back T206 WILL sell for far more $$ than most of the other back.
That would be a far easier way of making $$ for a scammer, if it was possible to remove all of the printing with no evidence.
Trying to find 100 year old ink (still good), and re-designing the exact match of the font, color, spacing, and design etc of a Drum, Uzit, Broadleaf 460 back, is not going to happen. Or we would have seen obvious evidence by now as many in the "doctoring" game dont know the possible front/back combos
I know they can bleach Topps cards, why not T206's where the premium for a Blank Back is 10X+...... That would be easier $$ than counterfeit bills, if it were true.
ie. buy a $30 T206 card, bleach it, flip it for $300+
Makes no sense to me, personally. or it would have been done by now by every scam artist out there.
ullmandds
08-06-2010, 07:43 PM
"The first conversation I had with a big-time T206 dealer over 20 years ago, he told me not to focus much on backs as there were a ton of fakes out there created by rebacking and/or reprinting of backs."
SOMEHOW I'D BET THIS DEALER HAS/HAD QUITE A BACKS COLLECTION HIMSELF!!!!! SUCKA!
Matthew H
08-06-2010, 07:49 PM
There's a great thread somewhere in the archives where a board member lifted the print off the front of a t205 and replaced it on a t206 Piedmont back. I couldn't find it but I've seen it.
Wasn't that Kevin's post about card doctoring?
Abravefan11
08-06-2010, 08:36 PM
There's a great thread somewhere in the archives where a board member lifted the print off the front of a t205 and replaced it on a t206 Piedmont back. I couldn't find it but I've seen it.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=123143
Post #5
Blunder19
08-06-2010, 10:37 PM
Is that thread you linked to talking about meshing 2 different papers together (a front and back)
Or vanashing 1 side of the card and reprinting what you want on the newly blank side?
How can you detect the fraud if its the latter?
The thread states its nearly impossible to detect?? that doesnt sound comforting.
Bosox Blair
08-06-2010, 10:44 PM
"The first conversation I had with a big-time T206 dealer over 20 years ago, he told me not to focus much on backs as there were a ton of fakes out there created by rebacking and/or reprinting of backs."
SOMEHOW I'D BET THIS DEALER HAS/HAD QUITE A BACKS COLLECTION HIMSELF!!!!! SUCKA!
Nice guess, but no. This guy was a true businessman and a dealer I could respect - no card stayed with him longer than a few days before he sold it and moved on. I stood in front of his table one day when he took in a great collection of T206s. Within 10 minutes he offered me the 4 Cobbs for $100 each (about Ex or better). I foolishly said no, and they were sold to the guy standing next to me.
Honestly, at that time I think very few people would have been at all impressed by a "backs collection"...
Cheers,
Blair