Keupper Cut

[Tsaiko]

Has anyone seen a Keupper cut this way? Does this lessen the value? It's not trimmed, which is fairly obvious.

[FrankWakefield]

I've not seen a Keupper Old Mill red border card cut that way. I agree, it isn't trimmed, it is mis-cut. Otherwise it is in nice shape. And I do think that cut would lessen the value, especially if someone wanted the card slabbed.

Henry Keupper was 12-16 for the Nashville Vols in 1910, pitching for manager Bill Bernhard (who's in T206). Other T206 team-mates would have been Harry Bay and Hub Perdue. Keupper was in the minors, except for his single season with the St. Louis Terriers of the Federal League in 1914, winning 8 and losing 20 for a last place team.

That's a nice card, I like it, even if the cut was off.

[FrankWakefield]

And here's what the card looks like, correctly...

Have you compared that T210 with others? One problem is that it is mis-cut. But it might have been cut a bit short on top of that, too.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/greatwake/KeufferNashvilleT210series8.jpg

[tbob]

I agree with Frank, I think it will decrease the value somewhat based on the miscut, but who knows? I've seen T206 cards on ebay that collectors have gone crazy over because of a miscut which shows a name over the image and no name underneath. When I started collecting I always quickly got rid of any cards like that because they were, simply, miscut and I felt worth less and had little eye appeal, but a lot of collectors are in love with miscuts.
That said, the T210 Keupper is a very tough card, hard to find, and this one has very nice eye appeal despite the miscut.

[rhettyeakley]

Interestingly, Keupper is one of two Nashville T210's I recently picked up. I agree it does detract a bit not having his name at bottom BUT I can see that the player printed above him was with Montgomery, can you tell the last name there, it is tough for me to see. Always kinda cool seeing the potential layout of the sheet they were printed on.

While we are here, anyone know which "Anderson" was his teammate in 1910, no record of an Anderson having made the team and playing with Nashville in 1910.

-Rhett
http://starsofthediamond.com/t210keupper8.JPG http://starsofthediamond.com/t210anderson8.JPG

[FrankWakefield]

Rhett, you have some great cards...

I don't see an Anderson in the Southern League for 1910.


I think that's Wingo Anderson. He was with the Cincinnati Reds for 7 games in 1910. First appearing April 16, and his last appearance June 1. In 1911 he pitches for Nashville (he's a southpaw, and unless that image was flopped that guy's a righty) going 10-8 in 19 games. Do you reckon that Wingo Anderson got hurt on June 1, or shortly thereafter, and eventually Cincy transferred him to Nashville in 1910... he's assigned down there and makes it onto a card, even though he never got into a game??

This is a link to Wingo's last major league game... he struck out the first batter he faced, then gave up a walk, a single, an walk, then walked in a run. Clarke Griffith had seen enough and pulled his pitcher, before they fell further behind to the Giants' pitcher, Christy Mathewson.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9E0CEED91530E233A25751C0A9609C946196D6CF

It would be interesting to find a 1910 Reds team photo to see if Anderson is in it, and how that compares to your Old Mill red border card.

[Tsaiko]

@Frank - Thanks, I don't think it's any shorter than the others, but I will look again. Btw, I love how you just can't answer a question, you have to add the pertinent stats; really great!

@tbob - Thanks, I kind of like things that are a little off, in general, so I can see how some might be attracted to some miscuts. Maybe I'll get lucky when selling.

@Rhett - Good eye! I don't have the card handy, but from the scan, it looks like it could be almost anybody. Next time I have the card out I will look closer to see if there are any hints as to who's name is there. Do you have any other info as to how the sheets were layed out?
Maybe it was alphabetical and they did two teams at once; so with my limited information (and I'm really reaching here, I know), maybe Montgomery - Nashville and the Montgomery player was Hart? From what I can faintly see in the scan, the lines in HART could match up. I don't interpret any of those lines to be rounded.

Ok, so possibly less valuable, depending on the collector. What about grading? Knocked down? A half grade? A whole?

Thanks,

[bmarlowe1]

It could be Wingo.

[rhettyeakley]

Thanks for the picture Mark, it very well could be Wingo Anderson. The thing that was throwing me was that he was listed as a lefty when your photo and the card both show an obvious righty, that and the fact that I can't find record of Wingo (or any other "Anderson") being w/ Nashville in 1910.
-Rhett

[Leon]

I think the technical grade is hard to guess. I would go with VG and maybe GD......SGC really likes the "40" number.....I doubt it could get a "50" with that cut, but who knows....

[DixieBaseball]

Tsaiko,

The Henry Keupper you have there is more miscut than the Keupper T210's I have handled over the last several years, but I must say, I have noticed a trend with the Keupper card in that they seem to have off center cuts for some reason. (Top to Bottom and Side to Side) I think I have seen at least 3 Keupper cards with this off center/vertical cut to it. I am not so sure it would get hammered at grading. I think it would be a 4 mc or a 40 as Leon suggested. See scan of my Keupper and notice some consistencies with cuts... (Very narrow cut at bottom and large border on left side, with skinny border on right) I dig odd cut cards and yours is really cool. We know recently that Series 8 and Series 3 Sheets may have been produced together, perhaps sharing the same sheet, so I would like to confirm as Rhett suggested, that the name of the city is Montgomery or possibly a series 3 city. (Email forthcoming to you)

[Tsaiko]

Thanks so much for your educated opinions, Leon and Jeremy, much appreciated.

The more I look at it, the more Montgomery seems to fit.

Jeremy, email returned.

[DixieBaseball]

Tsaiko,

Check the card to see if " Seabough Nashville " lines up. I checked the scan, and it looks like Seabough (Correct SP is Seabaugh, but card reads Seabough) The scan is grainy, so not sure, but wanted to see if Henry Keupper's vertical cut mate was James Seabough.

[rhettyeakley]

Jeremy, the card above Keupper 100% says "Montgomery." It's way too long of a word to be Nashville and the lower 1/3 of each letter is consistent w/ Montgomery.

[Tsaiko]

Tsaiko,

Check the card to see if " Seabough Nashville " lines up. I checked the scan, and it looks like Seabough (Correct SP is Seabaugh, but card reads Seabough) The scan is grainy, so not sure, but wanted to see if Henry Keupper's vertical cut mate was James Seabough.

Jeremy, I'm not seeing what you're seeing, but if you have some blown up evidence that you've created, I'm open and would like to check it out :)