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View Full Version : PSA set to encapsulate "TYPE" Photographs & Signed photos as well...


thekingofclout
06-09-2010, 10:09 PM
This will be a tremendous boon to this sector of the hobby, no doubt about it. Certainly a step in the right direction of having auction houses slabbing their photos instead of selling them "AS IS".
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Protective holders for certified original photographs and for the grading of autographs on 8X10 and slightly smaller-size photos will be used by PSA/DNA Authentication Services beginning June 14

The new holders are designed to make it easier for collectors and dealers to organize and store their photos.

“We’ve listened to what collectors and dealers wanted, and this new holder should take collecting of original photos to a new level,” said Joe Orlando, President of PSA/DNA, a division of Collectors Universe, Inc.

“Hard plastic holders used for trading cards are too cumbersome for large-sized items, such as photos. So, we’ve devised a semi-rigid holder that has a tamper-evident seal, similar to holders that are successfully used and widely accepted for certified paper money. This new holder is sturdy enough for safe storage but thin enough so you can easily frame certified photos for display on a wall, desk or table.”

The new holders are designed to accommodate 8X10 photographs. However, slightly smaller sizes also may be suitable for encapsulation and, if appropriate, possibly other “flats,” such as a one-page letter. For original photographs, the labels contain a pertinent, brief summary of the photo’s significance.

“Just like the summary information included on the holders for PSA/DNA-certified tickets, the clean and simple summary will make it easier to understand the significance of each certified photo and can help attract new collectors,” said Orlando.

“This is perfect for the authentication of original photos and for grading the autographs on any photos. Just as the introduction of special holders helped improve the market for certified cards, tickets and unopened packs, these new photo holders will be more appealing for collectors to store or display their pictures and for dealers to store in their inventories,” he predicted.

“There is no doubt that if a collectible can be encapsulated inside of a PSA holder, the collectible tends to become more marketable. The holder creates more liquidity, it makes the collectible easier to sell via the Internet, it helps protect the collectible and provide better presentation.”

One of the first certified photographs placed in a new PSA/DNA holder is an original Type I print of one of the sports world’s most famous images, “The Babe Bows Out.” It was shot by New York newspaper photographer Nat Fein on June 13, 1948 at Yankee Stadium when the ailing Babe Ruth was greeted by the crowd the day his jersey number, 3, was retired. The iconic photo was awarded a Pulitzer Prize.

“Only a few Type I photos of this dramatic image are known, and this particular one has a PSA/DNA-certified autograph by photographer Nat Fein. It is being offered by SCP Auctions in an auction on June 10,” said Orlando.

PSA/DNA certified photos are classified as Type I, II, III or IV, a system based on determination of the photograph’s originality or reproduction, development process and publication date. Type I is a first generation photo that was developed from the original negative within approximately two years of when the picture was taken.

Additional information about the PSA/DNA photo certification process can be found here.

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Exhibitman
06-10-2010, 08:54 AM
CGC was experimenting with a similar endeavor for vintage photos a few years ago, with a softer holder similar to a thick Card Saver but sonically sealed. They did a big experimental job for Jay Parrino's The Mint then dropped it. I contacted them to try and get some of my stuff encapsulated and was told that they'd decided against the service. Too bad, since it was nice to have the photos in a thinner holder instead of a monster slab.

Regardless of the photo typing thing it does seem like a needed service and a rather nice way to display and protect autographed photos. I might just send them some of mine. What is the cost?

Leon
06-10-2010, 11:30 AM
For the record Beckett has the service and is associated with Spence and our own David Rudd Cycleback, I believe. They have been doing it for some time and items seem to bring a premium in their holders. regards

M's_Fan
06-10-2010, 12:33 PM
Beautiful photos going into ugly PSA holders, yuck.

In my opinion, these photos belong in nice frames behind museum quality glass, not in a tacky acrylic holder of any grading company.

Bicem
06-10-2010, 02:55 PM
Beautiful photos going into ugly PSA holders, yuck.

In my opinion, these photos belong in nice frames behind museum quality glass, not in a tacky acrylic holder of any grading company.

what if you don't wish to display them? How would you then suggest to keep them safe?

botn
06-10-2010, 04:47 PM
For the record Beckett has the service and is associated with Spence and our own David Rudd Cycleback, I believe. They have been doing it for some time and items seem to bring a premium in their holders. regards

Yeah but the Beckett holders are way too bulky.

Leon
06-10-2010, 05:07 PM
Yeah but the Beckett holders are way too bulky.

However, they double as skis!!

Hankphenom
06-10-2010, 06:36 PM
Sorry, Jimmy, I have to disagree. This will benefit the whales of photography collecting and PSA, and cost everybody else a lot of money, in my humble opinion. As a longtime collector and dealer of vintage photography, I just don't see the need for this service. Unlike cards and autographs, there's never been an issue of forgery that I'm aware of, and trimming is not a problem. And keeping a collection in binders of PVC-free sheets is perfect for both storage and viewing. In your capacities as collector and dealer, how many times have you needed someone else to tell you anything you don't already know about the photos you handle? With only a tiny % of photos I've dealt with has there been some question as to the type or vintage, and I don't think the "authenticators" at PSA will do any better than you and I, and maybe worse. As far as grading is concerned, all you need is your eyes. The market has always "graded" photos by the price, now the grade will drive the price instead. Card and autograph grading, although correcting some abuses, turned collecting from fun to an anal-compulsive contest. Now grading will do the same to photos and everything else it touches. Yuck.
Hank Thomas

barrysloate
06-10-2010, 06:43 PM
Agreed Hank. I posted the same thing on the memorabilia side.

Ladder7
06-10-2010, 07:52 PM
No, not pretty. But the Beckett holders are Sherman tanks. I value the service, for preservation and to assure the grandkids these are legit. And not to be sold from the driveway, alongside my HS yearbook some beanie babies and the Airpopper, when I take my dirt nap.

thekingofclout
06-11-2010, 06:32 AM
Sorry, Jimmy, I have to disagree. This will benefit the whales of photography collecting and PSA, and cost everybody else a lot of money, in my humble opinion. As a longtime collector and dealer of vintage photography, I just don't see the need for this service. Unlike cards and autographs, there's never been an issue of forgery that I'm aware of, and trimming is not a problem. And keeping a collection in binders of PVC-free sheets is perfect for both storage and viewing. In your capacities as collector and dealer, how many times have you needed someone else to tell you anything you don't already know about the photos you handle? With only a tiny % of photos I've dealt with has there been some question as to the type or vintage, and I don't think the "authenticators" at PSA will do any better than you and I, and maybe worse. As far as grading is concerned, all you need is your eyes. The market has always "graded" photos by the price, now the grade will drive the price instead. Card and autograph grading, although correcting some abuses, turned collecting from fun to an anal-compulsive contest. Now grading will do the same to photos and everything else it touches. Yuck.
Hank Thomas



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Good to hear from you Hank. Been a long time.

Just to clarify one issue...the sky is not falling.

Also, PSA will not be grading photos in any way, shape, or form. For those that wish their photos to be graded, Beckett will do so.

Regards, Jimmy

Rob D.
06-11-2010, 07:43 AM
My first reaction is given the mistakes made by PSA and other grading companies identifying players pictured on and manufacturers of cards -- when that information is printed directly on the cards -- I have little reason to have faith in these same companies' ability to accurately classify types of vintage photos.

Hankphenom
06-11-2010, 11:39 AM
[QUOTE=thekingofclout;816214]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to clarify one issue...the sky is not falling.

I wasn't trying to be Chicken Little, just expressing my opinion on something I care about. Seems like a solution without a problem, but maybe I can be convinced. So tell me, who are going to be the beneficiaries here? And are you really looking forward to having all your beautiful photos encased in heavy plastic surrounded by a lot of color graphics? But most importantly for those on this board, will you still be able to start those great threads for the rest of us to enjoy?
Hank

M's_Fan
06-11-2010, 12:53 PM
what if you don't wish to display them? How would you then suggest to keep them safe?

they make inexpensive top loaders for photos. Only 1/4" thick and pennies a piece.

However I missed this from the PSA release:

This new holder is sturdy enough for safe storage but thin enough so you can easily frame certified photos for display on a wall, desk or table.”

A thin holder that can be easily framed is definitely a good thing. If people want to get their old photos certified as type 1, etc., then more power to them. I personally don't see a need, and having a layer of plastic and glass on top of the photo isn't great for picture quality.

Will SGC follow suit? I would guess so, you can't let PSA corner the market. I would hope that SGC just certifies the photo as type 1, etc., and authenticates the signature if applicable, and doesn't wade into grading a photo.

drc
06-13-2010, 03:39 AM
I'm not a fan of holdering photos, but I'm not about to say what others should like. If a collector wants his wirephoto in a holder, that's fine with me. It's his photo.

I think third party authentication can be a good and useful service, but don't like photos being professionally graded 1-10. The day collectors say "Do you think this PSA9 wirephoto will cross over to a SGC9" is the day I puke.

This doesn't mean I hate or lose sleep over photos being grades. Just that I don't like it (And I have my reasons). Reasonable people, I'm sure, like it-- so there you go.

Exhibitman
06-13-2010, 09:38 AM
I can't believe I'm actually justifying PSA'S service, but....

Hank: I and others said the same sorts of things about TPG when PSA first came up. To a large extent I still feel that way about high grade postwar cards. So I'm with you philosophically in terms of concern about plastic slab and label collectors being more concerned with the holder than the item. That said, there is definitely a place in the hobby for the service in at least two ways:

--Internet/Ebay sales: As is the case with cards, when I buy a graded card from a reputable service I stand a very good chance of getting what I bought. If people want to collect photos without amassing years of experience in the nuances or want to deal with Ebay purchases with reasonable reassurance as to what they get, this will help.

--Preservation/Protection/Display: Storing photos in sheets is an imperfect solution--too much movement and flex for some items--and the top loaders that are available are not archival quality. My compromise has been to put the photo in an archival sleeve then into an oversized top loader, which means I look at the image through two layers of plastic that isn't that clear anyway--not a great solution from an enjoyment perspective. I also don't particularly like framing vintage autographed stuff and putting it on the walls. Great way to wreck an autograph, especlally in a less than museum quality lighting situation. And if I want to display something temporarily then take it down, what do I do w/it--that framed item is a real storage nightmare. Not to menting the cost of a good frame-up, which far exceeds the cost of a slab and thus is not practical for a lot of items.

As for Beckett, their slab is ugly enough with a card in it; really lousy with a photo. If I want to look at them in ugly surroundings, I will just leave them in the sleeve in top loader.

thekingofclout
06-14-2010, 08:27 PM
I can't believe I'm actually justifying PSA'S service, but....

--Internet/Ebay sales: As is the case with cards, when I buy a graded card from a reputable service I stand a very good chance of getting what I bought. If people want to collect photos without amassing years of experience in the nuances or want to deal with Ebay purchases with reasonable reassurance as to what they get, this will help.


Perfectly put Exhibitman, thank you. Just remember guys, if you don't like the way a photo looks once you've bought a slabbed image... CUT IT OUT! That's what I would do.

Thanks to all for your thoughts and comments. Regards, Jimmy