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Leon
05-26-2010, 03:08 PM
Just to make sure all of our newer members understand the board with respect to remaining anonymous I want to post this one thread. You can stay anonymous to everyone (except moderators) unless you get in a heated debate or anything that is controversial. Sportscardtheory said he didn't want his name out there, and that is fine, he is now banned. I might lift the ban though and delete his membership, if he will quit threatening to sue me :) (I wish I had a nickel for every time I was threatened with a suit). Then he will be able to read it again but not post. My feelings are that this board is a heck of a lot more legitimate if we have this type of rule but I am open for discussion on the topic. regards

FrankWakefield
05-26-2010, 03:30 PM
I'd like for him to waste money with a law suit. Then he'd be worse off than he currently is, and maybe he'd be less quick to threaten lawsuits. And, I now think everyone should just use their names... didn't used to think that, but now do. If they don't want what they're saying associated with their name then they probably shouldn't be saying it. Maybe a policy of disclosing names of those threatening or suggesting legal action would help. Hang tough, Leon. I'd post the scan of a quarter with this if I had one handy.

cfc1909
05-26-2010, 03:36 PM
there was a thread on anonymity some time ago and I remember thinking there was no reason not to show your name but there were several good reasons posted for remaining anonmous that changed my mind.

You should be able to have your option except for the above situations.

Leon
05-26-2010, 03:52 PM
While I agree with Frank in essence I do understand that some professions need a bit of anonymity. For that reason it is allowed unless what happened happened. :) I will "unban" Sportscardstheory so he can read the board. I just wish folks wouldn't be so sue-happy all of the time over fairly trivial matters. My goodness....

FUBAR
05-26-2010, 03:55 PM
Anonymity is for the internet tough guys..... if you cant put your name to your words then shut your pie hole!!! and go play somewhere else!

My name is JIM DRYSDALE!!!!!

barrysloate
05-26-2010, 03:58 PM
Anonymity is accepted on the board if you are partaking in a discussion about rare T206 backs.

But if you get into personal attacks with board members then it is not acceptable. If I were attacked I would want to know who my enemies are.

drc
05-26-2010, 03:58 PM
To sue he'd have to reveal his name.

Leon
05-26-2010, 04:10 PM
Ok....maybe I acted too quickly on banning Sportscardtheory and I have unbanned him. He does now know to be careful on the board. A work around solution might be to only email members, when warranted, the names of those they are arguing with, if the member doesn't want their posted. There are valid reasons to not have it posted.....For me, I could care less but I do understand others' situations are different.

Jay Wolt
05-26-2010, 04:20 PM
Leon, I thought when the board switched over from the old format to this one
anonymity was a thing of the past and that we can see who the poster is
(if he chose not to have his name on the posts) via the "profile" feature.
Not sure why this isn't the case anymore. I for one like top know who the
person is that I'm reading or commenting to.

tbob
05-26-2010, 04:22 PM
Leon, I appreciate your effort on the board and the fact you try to do the right thing. You have made this board a place to not only pick up cards otherwise not available to most, but also a great place to learn about cards in general, stay current on trends in the hobby and meet some really nice people within the hobby. Just use your best judgment on this anonymity issue.
I also agree with Barry, anonymity sucks if someone flames you and you have no clue who the evildoer is who is causing trouble. That's troubling... :(
tbob

sportscardtheory
05-26-2010, 04:26 PM
First-off, thank you, Leon, for re-instating me. I know you want things to be a certain way here and I apologize if I caused any waves. It was not even close to being my intention.

I was corresponding with Leon through e-mails after being banned and explained my mind-set. Initially, I specifically asked Leon not to post my name, and that if he must, to delete my account instead. The "rules" here call for names to be exposed for some reason and I just couldn't, and still don't, understand it. But that is for future discussion. For anyone interested, I didn't threaten to sue over being banned. I said I would to talk to my lawyer if someone ended up doing something that lead to my identity being stolen, or something similar. I don't want my name posted on message boards, not because I won't back up what I'm saying, but because I simply don't trust anyone. Why should I, really. When someone is pissed at you on a message board, I find it rather concerning that they would even WANT your name. What good can possibly come of that.

Anyway, I will certainly watch my tone in the future. I post on a political forum with relaxed TOS, so sometimes I'm jumping back-and-forth and my etiquette follows me from there. I'm sorry if I offended anyone who's original intent wasn't to offend me. ; )

Leon
05-26-2010, 04:32 PM
Thanks for the kind words Tbob.

Jay- I don't think there was ever a place on the board that you could see someone's name. That information isn't even captured in the software it's captured in my email box, upon the 2nd part of the registration. No where in the back end of the registration IN THE S/W is there a place you have to put your full name. I do have them on file though.

As I said, I think a work around will be that I will privately email folks when there is a need. I have already done that this evening and will continue. That seems like it can satisfy everyone. (though I realize satisfying everyone is impossible)

teetwoohsix
05-26-2010, 04:43 PM
I think identity theft is a legit reason to have concern. Awhile back I read in a couple of threads about people hijacking ebay accounts.I still do not understand how someone does this, but because I pretty much stopped buying on ebay, I removed my ebay ID from my profile page. If for some reason a board member would like to know it, send a PM. About the same time, I removed my last name, and replaced it with my last initial.

Clayton

Peter_Spaeth
05-26-2010, 05:46 PM
I pretty much agree with Fubar.

bcornell
05-26-2010, 06:09 PM
How many times in the 9-year history of this forum have we had to endure someone saying they needed to be anonymous, only to quickly discover that they were pulling some shenanigans? I lost count a while ago.

There's a difference between anonymity and privacy that escapes some people.


Bill

FUBAR
05-26-2010, 06:28 PM
I dont think anonymous people should be allowed to participate on the BST either, but thats just my opinion!

Tcards-Please
05-26-2010, 06:36 PM
I dont think anonymous people should be allowed to participate on the BST either, but thats just my opinion!

Jim,

I guess I never thought of that, but I completely agree with you on this. As a buyer, we should be able to know who were are dealing with.

r/
Frank

T206Collector
05-26-2010, 06:38 PM
I've never understood why anyone would either want to share his real name or know another poster's real name on an internet chatboard. Who cares if you are fighting with Johnny Tacos or BaseballCardGuru69? It's still fighting with a random dude sitting at a computer somewhere.

For all you should care, my real name is T206Collector. I don't hide behind any other names and I never change my Net54 name. I've never met any of you and have no immediate plans to meet any of you anytime soon. To me, Net54 is not an Internet man-dating service!

I don't even know or care if Barry Sloate is a real name or a pseudonym for Jimmy Cheeseburger. Either way, I know where he stands vis-a-vis his Net54 personality.

calvindog
05-26-2010, 06:44 PM
I don't even know or care if Barry Sloate is a real name or a pseudonym for Jimmy Cheeseburger. Either way, I know where he stands vis-a-vis his Net54 personality.

It's actually an alias for Barry Goat.

Chris Counts
05-26-2010, 06:51 PM
I don't like anonymity at all. Everywhere I see it on the internet, there are nothing but problems. People seem to be a lot nicer to each other if they know who they are communicating with ...

T206Collector
05-26-2010, 06:52 PM
:dit's actually an alias for barry goat.

lol!

barrysloate
05-26-2010, 06:52 PM
T206 Collector (and I do know your real name): I like to know who is on the other side of the keyboard. That is important to me. These are real people I am interacting with, and many of them I know from my years in the business. It would embarrass me if I were communicating anonymously with someone and then discovered I had known him for a long time. And I like to know who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. It may not be important to you, but I like to know. It's a personal matter with each poster whether or not he wants to know who's out there, and not something to be dismissed with a blanket statement.

T206Collector
05-26-2010, 07:06 PM
There may be a genuine business reason to know -- and many Net54'ers like to meet up at Nationals and shows and pizza parties just for fun. To each his own.

My only point is that I don't know if Chris Counts is a real name or not -- and save for checking his driver's license or passport we may never really know. In the context of a guy you've never met and will never meet, can you explain why knowing his real name versus a made up name makes a difference?

Jewish-collector
05-26-2010, 07:14 PM
A great part of the enjoyment of this hobby for me personally is meeting other collectors, dealers, etc,.... However, I do respect T206's decision not to want to.

Leon
05-26-2010, 07:22 PM
How many times in the 9-year history of this forum have we had to endure someone saying they needed to be anonymous, only to quickly discover that they were pulling some shenanigans? I lost count a while ago.

There's a difference between anonymity and privacy that escapes some people.


Bill

This is a very good point, Bill. I guess what I/we have already said is you can have privacy but not anonymity because we will let folks know who others are in private correspondence. There is, and never will be, total anonymity on this board again (since the last board s/w). There have been less than a handful of registrants who didn't want to give the 3 required pieces of information and they are not members. I can't see that rule changing or me bending on it. Privacy, is another matter and really is what is being debated here. I think, and hope, the solution is the emailing of names when warranted, in a private manner. This is one of those issues that will never be perfect, it can't be. Everyone has a bit of a different opinion so, it's not been broken, and I doubt it will be fixed. regards

hangman62
05-26-2010, 07:26 PM
Anonymity is for the internet tough guys..... if you cant put your name to your words then shut your pie hole!!! and go play somewhere else!

My name is JIM DRYSDALE!!!!!


Jim did you want to post your S.S.# and any pin #s or bank account info ?
LOL

FUBAR
05-26-2010, 07:32 PM
let someone steal my identity... would suck to be them to go through all that effort for nothing... im sure they would feel sorry for me, send me their money and apologize to me!!!!

DaveH
05-26-2010, 07:32 PM
Leon,
Obviously I agree with full disclosure. For everyone else I live somewhere in Florida - good look finding me. By the way watch out for my security.

dh

Tsaiko
05-26-2010, 07:44 PM
Ideally, everyone should use their real names when getting together as friends to discuss a common passion. But, from my personal standpoint, I came here looking for answers and even though I read the board before joining, there was enough bickering and accusations flying about that I wasn't sure who could be trusted.

As I have mentioned already, I'm not a collector, but an appreciator who knew nothing about the hobby at all when I first joined. I do know of other forums where people have been personally targeted through their online personalities and information that they have given throughout their membership. Pieces of info that by themselves offer nothing too personal, but over years of posting, enough little pieces that allowed them to be targeted in their home.

Now here I come along, trying to determine the value of something I own and yea, I'm a bit nervous about revealing specific details about who I am.

I really liked the way Leon runs this board, so when he insisted I had to provide my real info, I did. He called to confirm, we had a nice chat, and he told me that if I merited him outing me he would. Since I'm not about to tell any of you guys any lies or piss in the hands that are feeding me the info I can't look up on my own, this is not a problem.

I can only lightly participate in certain threads, that I feel I might contribute something or make a joke, cause I'm a funny f@#%er like a lot of you guys, but mostly I listen and learn.

It's been a fascinating journey so far, so much so that I will terribly miss my cards once they are all sold. And that is my intention. However, in another life, who knows, maybe I would've been a collector.
Or as Marlon Brando might say, "I could have been a collector".

Now, if I inadvertently step on any toes or cause a ruckus (he said ruckus :eek:), I will be glad to meet you in person where we can then exchange information and fill out an accident report.

I have no problem letting you know who I really am, if need be, and can only let everyone here know that everything I say is truthful and I will never ever try to deceive anyone.

FUBAR
05-26-2010, 07:59 PM
Geez, Leon never phoned me, you must be someone special !!

M's_Fan
05-26-2010, 08:08 PM
I've never understood why anyone would either want to share his real name or know another poster's real name on an internet chatboard. Who cares if you are fighting with Johnny Tacos or BaseballCardGuru69? It's still fighting with a random dude sitting at a computer somewhere.

For all you should care, my real name is T206Collector. I don't hide behind any other names and I never change my Net54 name. I've never met any of you and have no immediate plans to meet any of you anytime soon. To me, Net54 is not an Internet man-dating service!

I don't even know or care if Barry Sloate is a real name or a pseudonym for Jimmy Cheeseburger. Either way, I know where he stands vis-a-vis his Net54 personality.


I totally agree, and this post was hilarious! :D

sox1903wschamp
05-26-2010, 08:14 PM
Leon,
Obviously I agree with full disclosure. For everyone else I live somewhere in Florida - good look finding me. By the way watch out for my security.

dh

Thanks for the laugh. Now if you were from Wyoming, well besides scaring sheep, we could probably find you :).

Chris Counts
05-26-2010, 08:25 PM
Wow, this is a tough crowd. I've been accused of a few things in my 35 years + of collecting vintage cards, but nobody has ever suggested I'm not Chris Counts. Here, T206 Collector, is a scan of my drivers license, minus the stuff identity thieves are after. I think I have a copy of my birth certificate around as well. Does it need to be certified? :)

T206Collector
05-26-2010, 08:32 PM
nobody has ever suggested I'm not Chris Counts.

Sorry to pick your name as an example. You chose to block certain info from your Driver's License. That's where you (literally) draw your line. I draw mine a bit earlier is all.

Al C.risafulli
05-26-2010, 08:58 PM
My name is Jeff Lichtman and anyone who has a problem with me or my posts can go pound sand.

-Al

carrigansghost
05-26-2010, 09:05 PM
Rawn Hill, who wants to be me?

Rawn

Jantz
05-26-2010, 09:21 PM
It's actually an alias for Barry Goat.

Now I'm really confused. I thought his real name was Barry Sloth! :)

Sorry Barry, I just had to. Ole Reginald sure like to jab at you for some reason.

Jantz - aka Jantz

steve B
05-26-2010, 09:24 PM
I find this thread interesting.

I'm on a mailing list for one of my other hobbies (Collecting old racing bicycles)
And the guy that runs it insists on everyone knowing who everyone else is.
We have to sign off each message with our actual name, and location, spelling out the state so non-U.S. members can understand it. I know of exactly 0 identity problems in 10 years.

But I can understand some of the security concerns. A wonderful bike collection is less altogether than some high end cards or memorabilia.
(My most expensive bike is maybe in the league of a t206 green Cobb for a rough idea) so there's less financial risk.

Identity theft is a concern, but rarely from having ones name on a board like this. I know I'll never convince those who don't think so.

But I will say this, there's FAR more risk of identity theft at the local restauraunt. Usually the card is out of your physical possession, and it's very easy to copy the imprinted info as well as the validation code. This can be done in under 20 seconds by nearly anyone. And with a skimmer that figure falls to under 5 seconds.

You also give up far more info of a personal nature any time you use a credit or ATM card to make a purchase or use a shoppers discount card. Most of them store purchase and demographic info that's mostly used for targeted marketing. That's how the hardware store can send me a coupon for sawzall blades or a $10 gift certificate for my birthday. And almost everyone considers that to be a benefit rather than an invasion of privacy. (I won't even get started on your bank turning the computer loose on your purchase history to "look for fraud" )


Personally I find it interesting to know who I'm talking to, and what their hobby background is. On the bike list, one member has raced internationally in 6 day races back in the 40's -50's he learned from guys that raced in the 30's, and he's in the US cycling hall of fame. His opinion about how the racing was done and how the racers treated the bikes (Like any other tool) counts a bit more than say...Mine with my one season of beginners racing which included a whole lot of DNFs.

Steve B
or as the bike guys get to see it
Steve Birmingham
Lowell, Massachusetts
USA

Peter_Spaeth
05-26-2010, 09:27 PM
Calvindog, who the hell are you anyway? Imagine hiding behind a name like that.

ChrisStufflestreet
05-26-2010, 09:45 PM
Sorry, Leon...but I'm hiding behind my User ID. So there.

smtjoy
05-26-2010, 10:04 PM
I agree with what Bill said far above. I like to know who I am dealing with.

I also think anyone using the BST should be known, much bigger difference than just posting.

barrysloate
05-27-2010, 04:43 AM
Jantz- I've heard that one before, since I was a kid. Hey, you have to have a sense of humor.:) They also call me Sloateman.

Anonymity is fine in the entirely card related threads we have. But once the personal insults start flying, and the history of the board is that they will fly pretty regularly, you need to identify yourself or stay out of the fray.

It's important for me to put my name out there because I take full responsibility for what I say. Whether I deliver a pearl of wisdom or another idiotic post, I want the board to know who said it. I don't like when people make brash statements yet remain unknown.

Rich Klein
05-27-2010, 05:17 AM
If you wish to be anonymous and contribute to a discussion about T-206 backs or what was your 1st pre-war card; etc -- then by all means your name need not be mentioned.

On the other hand, if you get involved in a controversial thread; and you start attacking someone; then it is a basic human right that you are able to face your opponent. Not providing a name, is not valid in that case.

I do understand some reasons for wanting to remain anonymous and thus; perhaps the better solution is to contact Leon IN ADVANCE of a post and explain WHY you wish to remain so. And frankly, ID theft is not a good enough reason at that point. There are so many more efficient ways for your ID to be stolen, the restaurant example is one, and frankly anytime you use an ATM could be another if a skimmer was set up there,....

Regards
Rich

T206Collector
05-27-2010, 06:04 AM
My reasons for remaining anonymous are personal, and have nothing to do with wanting to avoid identity theft, which is basically zero risk on here unless you share a credit card or SSN with someone.

For those of you that want names so you can "know" who you're arguing with, just keep in mind that a name is just that -- whether it was given by your mom or you made it up when logging on here. It doesn't help you "know" your poster -- unless you "knew" him from the real world first.

Leon
05-27-2010, 06:43 AM
I agree with what Steve B said above. I have been on the internet for at least 12 yrs and nothing has happened as far as identity theft. Now, my wife goes and spends $16 on a haircut a year or two ago....pays with a check and just has this 6th sense that didn't feel right (seriously). About a month later someone printed checks on a printer with my account information and their name. After about $500 in purchases, from my bank account, I found out and closed the account. I was instantly reimbursed by my bank (Bank of America- they are great, imo). They told me "tough luck for the merchants. They didn't get proper ID." That was my only issue with identity theft and hopefully my last. ..knock on wood.

I think the best reason that I have heard for not having your name on the board is for professional reasons. Say an employer googles your name and finds it here....if you posted during the workday maybe you could get in trouble......or if you are a public type figure maybe you wouldn't want it.

For me, I am with whoever has said "They want to be me? Poor guys....let 'em. That will teach 'em!!:D"

sportscardtheory
05-27-2010, 06:50 AM
I find it very strange and creepy that someone who is angry/upset with me for something I said on a message board wants my full name. Literally not any other forum I am on has this policy. Not one good thing can come from someone who is angry with you having your full name on the internet. "Just wanting to know" isn't good enough for me. It doesn't explain a thing. On the PSA boards a person's name came out and people scoured the internet and posted pics of that person and his girlfriend and numerous things he had said and his MySpace, facebook and twitter pages were exposed. He didn't want all those people who were upset with him for some stupid thing he said having that info. If he did, he would have given it to them himself. I have heard stories of people messing with other people's eBay accounts because they were mad at something they said on a message board. I believe that it is extremely intrusive and I see absolutely no valid explanation for it. Unless they are pulling some sort of scam, if someone doesn't want their identity exposed on a message board, it should be their right to be anonymous. The sole purpose of an internet message board is anonymity. The only possible exception in my mind is the BST.

Leon
05-27-2010, 06:56 AM
I find it very strange and creepy that someone who is angry/upset with me for something I said on a message board wants my full name. Literally not any other forum I am on has this policy. Not one good thing can come from someone who is angry with you having your full name on the internet. "Just wanting to know" isn't good enough for me. It doesn't explain a thing. On the PSA boards a person's name came out and people scoured the internet and posted pics of that person and his girlfriend and numerous things he had said and his MySpace, facebook and twitter pages were exposed. He didn't want all those people who were upset with him for some stupid thing he said having that info. If he did, he would have given it to them himself. I have heard stories of people messing with other people's eBay accounts because they were mad at something they said on a message board. I believe that it is extremely intrusive and I see absolutely no valid explanation for it. Unless they are pulling some sort of scam, if someone doesn't want their identity exposed on a message board, it should be their right to be anonymous. The sole purpose of an internet message board is anonymity. The only possible exception in my mind is the BST.

You have your right to your opinion and I respectfully disagree with most of it. On this board, if you don't want to be known, stay out of arguments. Maybe this board has a bit higher age average and that is why we think the way we do. I think our average age is about low to mid 40's...I am 48. On this message board it is only your right to be anonymous if you stay out of arguments. It might not be the right place for everyone. I hated being so involved yesterday but it was what it was.....regards

ullmandds
05-27-2010, 07:00 AM
"The sole purpose of an internet message board is anonymity."


Yup...that's why I use them...makes a lot of sense!

GrayGhost
05-27-2010, 07:02 AM
Interesting thread. Anyone who has done business w me knows my name, and I have nothing to hide.

sportscardtheory
05-27-2010, 07:09 AM
"The sole purpose of an internet message board is anonymity."


Yup...that's why I use them...makes a lot of sense!

I worded that strangely. I currently frequent 7 message boards and have been a part of around 10+ since I have been on the internet. Literally not one besides this one exposes your full-name because you get into a heated discussion. Again, I see not one good thing that could possibly come from it and still no one has given me a good reason. It's like handing ammo to someone who is mad at you that is holding an unloaded gun. I'm only curious is all. I don't really care all that much as I most likely will post less here because now I'm kind of paranoid that people want my personal info. I like this place a lot, but I guess it should be more a read for me with some scattered posts here and there.

ullmandds
05-27-2010, 07:12 AM
One of the problems w/anonymity is that it encourages negative behavior. When I was a kid we'd play on the cb radio...and we'd harass people...total strangers...cause trouble. Same concept. If your identity is known...this type of behavior is less likely to occur...as you have to be responsible/accountable for your actions.

Lack of responsibility/accountability is running rampant these days...and is not good...and should not be encouraged.

sportscardtheory
05-27-2010, 07:14 AM
One of the problems w/anonymity is that it encourages negative behavior. When I was a kid we'd play on the cb radio...and we'd harass people...total strangers...cause trouble. Same concept. If your identity is known...this type of behavior is less likely to occur...as you have to be responsible/accountable for your actions.

Lack of responsibility/accountability is running rampant these days...and is not good...and should not be encouraged.

Isn't that what moderating is for. If someone is getting out of hand, 99% of message boards will issue warnings and/or suspensions/bans, not hand out that person's personal info to anyone who wants it.

T206Collector
05-27-2010, 07:18 AM
I could see why it annoys the people who use their real name on here to have to argue with a guy named "T206Fart". But my only point is that T206Fart and Leon Luckey are both equally "real" to me.

barrysloate
05-27-2010, 07:29 AM
Sportscardtheory, T206 Collector and others: Several years ago the late Joe P. and I began a hostile exchange that sadly was never resolved. I remember I was away for the weekend and came home to a bunch of emails asking me why Joe P. attacked me so viciously. I had to get on the board to see what it was about.

And while it's no fun to get into a nasty argument with anyone, the one thing that bothered me the most was I had absolutely no idea who it was. He then used the named tobacco-r-us and nothing more. No matter how many times I asked him to reveal himself he wouldn't, but the attacks continued. He knew exactly who I was, but I had no idea who my adversary was. Do you think that is fair? Finally, after about two weeks somebody emailed me and identified him. Turns out he was an old customer who I had recently reunited with through one of my auctions. Don't you think I had a right in that situation to know his name?

sportscardtheory
05-27-2010, 07:35 AM
Sportscardtheory, T206 Collector and others: Several years ago the late Joe P. and I began a hostile exchange that sadly was never resolved. I remember I was away for the weekend and came home to a bunch of emails asking me why Joe P. attacked me so viciously. I had to get on the board to see what it was about.

And while it's no fun to get into a nasty argument with anyone, the one thing that bothered me the most was I had absolutely no idea who it was. He then used the named tobacco-r-us and nothing more. No matter how many times I asked him to reveal himself he wouldn't, but the attacks continued. He knew exactly who I was, but I had no idea who my adversary was. Do you think that is fair? Finally, after about two weeks somebody emailed me and identified him. Turns out he was an old customer who I had recently reunited with through one of my auctions. Don't you think I had a right in that situation to know his name?

Not in my opinion. If he was out of line, then he should have been "moderated". If you were both in a heated discussion, then who's to say you didn't start it just so you can get his info (strictly hypothetical). And what happened when you found out who he was? I don't understand why a person's personal info needs to be plastered all over the board just because you want it to be. (my tone is just general curiosity and not inflammatory)

T206Collector
05-27-2010, 07:40 AM
Don't you think I had a right in that situation to know his name?

This is obviously a very personal issue to you. And I am sympathetic to the unique facts of your argument with Joe P.

I think you feel exposed on here because you have always used your real name and a lot of people in the industry know you personally and professionally. Sitting in your shoes from the spotlight, I would certainly want the light shined on everyone ese.

But when I came on here, from day 1, I never wanted to post my name publicly or learn the real life info of anyone else; in nearly a decade on here I've never met member (except 2 or 3 extremely brief "here you go/thanks" in person card trades). Viewing the world from where I sit in the shade, I could care less about "real" names. And I understand and respect the importance of not being easily Google-able by, e.g., a current or future employer.

Do you know that the next time you apply for a job somewhere that they will Google you and see all of your posts on here?

Or that Michael O'Keefe might write a blog about you?

Why would you expose yourself to that?

barrysloate
05-27-2010, 07:44 AM
No, I didn't start it at all. I was away for the weekend and he posted during that time. His beef was I hijacked somebody's thread which I technically did, but it was another board member who started the digression and I responded to it. Nevertheless, when I did find out it was somebody I had been friendly with in the past it affected me differently than if it were a total stranger.

We probably need to agree that we will continue to disagree on this point. And it's no big deal. But I do believe that if you post anonymously you pretty much have carte blanche to say whatever you want, no matter how outrageous and insulting it may be. You can lie, boast, curse people out, do whatever you please and nobody will ever know it's you. But if you put your name out it will hold you to a higher standard. You will be more careful with what you say. I do believe this, and I realize you may not. No hard feelings either way.

Peter_Spaeth
05-27-2010, 07:48 AM
If you don't want to be googled, use a "." or a "_" in your name, how hard is that?

T206Collector
05-27-2010, 07:53 AM
If you don't want to be googled, use a "." or a "_" in your name, how hard is that?

Your assumption is that the only Googling to be concerned about is when the search engine finds the name you used when making posts.

sportscardtheory
05-27-2010, 07:55 AM
No, I didn't start it at all. I was away for the weekend and he posted during that time. His beef was I hijacked somebody's thread which I technically did, but it was another board member who started the digression and I responded to it. Nevertheless, when I did find out it was somebody I had been friendly with in the past it affected me differently than if it were a total stranger.

We probably need to agree that we will continue to disagree on this point. And it's no big deal. But I do believe that if you post anonymously you pretty much have carte blanche to say whatever you want, no matter how outrageous and insulting it may be. You can lie, boast, curse people out, do whatever you please and nobody will ever know it's you. But if you put your name out it will hold you to a higher standard. You will be more careful with what you say. I do believe this, and I realize you may not. No hard feelings either way.


Agreed to respectfully disagree. I personally don't want anyone that I don't know having my personal info, but that's just me. Personal security and safety is far more important to me than someone's feelings on a message board. The internet is now a weapon, and there are a lot of looses cannons out there. Leon keeps bringing up that nothing has ever happened to him in so many years, but he is only one person. Nothing serious has happened to me either, but what about all the people that something HAS happened to. The world doesn't start and stop at our own personal experiences. I do understand that this is a privately owned and run board and we all must follow the rules or leave, so it's not an issue to me any longer. I'm just cordially discussing my opinions on the matter. : )

barrysloate
05-27-2010, 08:01 AM
Well you do have the right to remain anonymous here. The trade off is you can't make personal attacks or get involved in very controversial discussions. Do you at least think that is fair? Do you think it's fair to go after someone when that individual doesn't know who you are, but you know exactly who he is?

T206Collector
05-27-2010, 08:04 AM
But I'd like the Board to be comfortable for famous/public figures with great collections to contribute.

Some of the best collectors want to limit their public exposure. Force a "real" name out of them and they'll never come on here.

Jewish-collector
05-27-2010, 08:08 AM
I believe there are a few members of this board that have world class collections & give their full name out.

T206Collector
05-27-2010, 08:08 AM
Well you do have the right to remain anonymous here. The trade off is you can't make personal attacks or get involved in very controversial discussions. Do you at least think that is fair? Do you think it's fair to go after someone when that individual doesn't know who you are, but you know exactly who he is?

I'll agree with you if you'll acknowledge that I don't know you any better than I know Sportscardtheory and if either of you attack me, you'd still both be d1cks -- even if your "real" name is Barry.

T206Collector
05-27-2010, 08:10 AM
I believe there are a few members of this board that have world class collections & give their full name out.

Like Charlie Sheen, Keith Olbermann, Dmitri Young, Tom Candiotti, etc. etc.....

barrysloate
05-27-2010, 08:11 AM
But you do know me. We've communicated on the board for years, you've gotten my auction catalogs, doesn't that count for something? We haven't met in person but I feel I at least know something about who you are (as well as that mysterious name). But I haven't a clue who sportscardtheory is. He prefers it that way, and so be it.

Clearly there are differing opinions on this issue. No big deal.

sportscardtheory
05-27-2010, 08:18 AM
But you do know me. We've communicated on the board for years, you've gotten my auction catalogs, doesn't that count for something? We haven't met in person but I feel I at least know something about who you are (as well as that mysterious name). But I haven't a clue who sportscardtheory is. He prefers it that way, and so be it.

Clearly there are differing opinions on this issue. No big deal.

I'm only here for discussion. That's the big difference for me. If I was here trading and selling, then I would be fine with my name being out there. But I'm only here to learn about and discuss pre-war cards. My name and personal information is of no importance to anyone here.

barrysloate
05-27-2010, 08:25 AM
Yes sportcardstheory, but your rhetoric crossed the line on the T202 Joe Jackson thread. You made a few nasty comments (please don't ask me to find them on a 512 post thread). So if you really are here only to learn, you have to be more careful with what you say.

GrayGhost
05-27-2010, 08:25 AM
I'm only here for discussion. That's the big difference for me. If I was here trading and selling, then I would be fine with my name being out there. But I'm only here to learn about and discuss pre-war cards. My name and personal information is of no importance to anyone here.

That is actually a very fair statement IMO. and honestly, should stop the bickering.

sportscardtheory
05-27-2010, 08:38 AM
Yes sportcardstheory, but your rhetoric crossed the line on the T202 Joe Jackson thread. You made a few nasty comments (please don't ask me to find them on a 512 post thread). So if you really are here only to learn, you have to be more careful with what you say.

I did say to learn and discuss. I am very opinionated and there is nothing wrong with that. I honestly still don't believe that I crossed any lines with anything I said in that thread. Most if not all of the "questionable" posts I made were in response to something I found questionable myself. Rarely if ever do I get inflammatory without being provoked in some way.

T206Collector
05-27-2010, 08:40 AM
But you do know me. We've communicated on the board for years, you've gotten my auction catalogs, doesn't that count for something? We haven't met in person but I feel I at least know something about who you are (as well as that mysterious name).

Sure we know each other on that level. And if that makes you comfortable communicating with me that's cool.

Leon
05-27-2010, 08:41 AM
I pretty much feel the way Barry does. I don't care what other boards do. This is a great subject but the rules aren't changing. Just realize that if you get into heated discussions your name will be given to others, at least privately, if asked. Maybe this board isn't the right place for everyone. At least you know where I/we stand though. regards

jb217676
05-27-2010, 08:47 AM
Is Charlie Sheen a member here? If so that's wicked cool! (Charlie, big fan of your work!)

timzcardz
05-27-2010, 08:48 AM
My thoughts on this is that if you are going to conduct yourself here as a lady or gentleman then it doesn't matter whether a real or user name is employed.


If you are not going to conduct yourself in that manner, then perhaps you should go discuss things with the bouncer at a local watering hole and have him kick your butt, because I'm certain that Leon has better things to do.

T206Collector
05-27-2010, 08:55 AM
Is Charlie Sheen a member here? If so that's wicked cool! (Charlie, big fan of your work!)

No idea -- however, if he was I'm pretty sure he'd rather not be talking about his career or personal life on a public internet chatboard.

I'd like Charlie to be able to come on here as M101-5Collector and be free to speak his mind about cards without having to address his non-hobby life.

steve B
05-27-2010, 09:15 AM
On the bike mailing list the lack on anonymity works very well. As the list owner puts it - picture it as if we're all hanging out in my garage talking about bikes. And don't say anything in print that you wouldn't say in person-

There are heated discussions, and there are guys that just won't ever get along. But even the arguments are pretty civil. The radio group on AOL that I started with was moderated, but barely, and the total anonymity led to lots of childish stuff.

I can see a need for some people to be somewhat anonymous. Someone who's a public figure - Yeah, I can see if Charlie Sheen was here he might get a lot of the typical schmoozing requests that I hear celebs are constantly subjected to.

And maybe if someone is in witness protection they might want to keep a low profile.

I can even sort of see how someone might want to be separated from their comments for job/professional reasons. Just a hint, if posting from work is going to get you fired, DON'T DO IT!
But I've got to ask if a prospective employer is going to have a problem with something said on a baseball card board doesn't that seem a bit weird. I mean if you were going for a job as a grader or one with a card company I can see it, but for anyone else?
"Oh, this guy doesn't like graded cards. I bet he's a lousy accountant"
(Not aimed at anyone in particular, just picked an issue and career)
Makes no sense at all, and for me it would be a sign that my employment there would be pretty brief anyway.


T206 collector - I'm interested in what you think you could find. Feel free to google me and report back what you've learned. If you find anything that's actually of any potential use/harm I'll be convinced. I think that about the worst you'll find is that I often lie about my birthday on signups just in case someones data gets compromised.


Steve B

ChiefBenderForever
05-27-2010, 09:40 AM
But I've got to ask if a prospective employer is going to have a problem with something said on a baseball card board doesn't that seem a bit weird.

Steve B

Your potential employer could find it very weird, it's not like one person does the hiring, usually a whole panel does and the slightest thing that seperates you from the next canidate is often the difference. Right now for every job there are 10-200 people applying. Many people find collecting baseball cards strange, much like comic books. If they realized how much someone was spending on cardboard they might think you were insane. This may be an extreme case but could happen, I think that it is just a personal choice, some people are private and others not so much,that's all. Leon has everyones info so it isn't really private anyways.

Robextend
05-27-2010, 09:46 AM
I tend more to agree with Barry and Leon; however I certainly see the argument from both sides.

However, I have known just about all of the parties I have dealt with on the BST and that is how it should work there. Coincidentally the BST is where I have made most of my hobby friends.

Rob

T206Collector
05-27-2010, 09:58 AM
T206 collector - I'm interested in what you think you could find. Feel free to google me and report back what you've learned. If you find anything that's actually of any potential use/harm I'll be convinced. I think that about the worst you'll find is that I often lie about my birthday on signups just in case someones data gets compromised.

This is a standard response to invasion of privacy claims: "I have nothing to hide, so why should you?"

teetwoohsix
05-27-2010, 10:07 AM
I am confused-do people really make deals on the B/S/T and still remain anonymous? Any time I've bought or traded cards with anyone on the board I've given my full name,address,and I'm pretty sure even my phone # too. I don't see how one person would be comfortable sending the other cards or money if the person wasn't willing to give a name? :confused:

Clayton

GrayGhost
05-27-2010, 10:17 AM
People send payment, I send them the item. We know each other's names at that point, what is the problem?

You need to have some trust that if people find your name out , they won't go digging around and stuff for dirt. I think overall Leon's idea of giving out a name if requested if there is a real heated issue is fine too.

For me, I like this board, and reading the diff topics/seeing the wonderful items you guys have. But, like another board I belong to, that has nothing to do w the hobby, there is a lot of childish stuff too, and the occassional big shot and whiner too. I guess it goes with the territory on basically any site.

Scott.

T206Collector
05-27-2010, 10:45 AM
If I make a trade with you, you'll learn my name and a mailing address. I've made plenty of deals on here and so many of you all know my real name. I draw the line at being in a fishbowl with a name tag on.

Lordstan
05-27-2010, 11:06 AM
Well,
I think both sides have made very good points and I think Leon has found a very happy medium zone. Be any name you like, with very selective name revelations to individuals, not the board as a whole.
For me, I like the anonymity on the day to day posts for many of the reasons already here. While I do think identity theft is more likely at the local store, that doesn't mean we should throw caution to the wind everywhere else. I do think it woud be easier for those famous collectors to participate knowing they don't have to expose themselves.
BUT on the flip side, I do disagree with T206 collector in that people acting like jerks is much more likely with a psuedonym, than with a real name. This is why, knowing who we are talking to when there is a big argument, I feel, is a deterrent to personal attacks.
JMHO
Mark

Al C.risafulli
05-27-2010, 11:41 AM
A few years ago, someone that was not a part of my hobby life started asking me questions about things I'd posted on this board. I found that incredibly creepy, since I'd never even told this person that I collected.

When I googled my name, I discovered that my posts here were easily searchable. This person had googled me and apparently felt that the fact that my posts here were public, that gave them the right to insert themselves into this part of my life.

I found that it was pretty easy to prevent that from happening just by sticking a period inbetween two letters of my last name. Now my posts here don't show up in google searches.

At the same time, I like that people know who they're talking with when I'm engaging them in threads here. And I like knowing who I'm talking with as well. This is a small hobby, and we've seen plenty of situations where anonymous posts here turn out to be posts that are driven by an agenda.

I almost always take a post more seriously when I know the name of the person making it.

-Al

Peter_Spaeth
05-27-2010, 11:47 AM
I agree with Al dot C, I can't articulate why, but to me it makes a difference knowing who someone really is.

FUBAR
05-27-2010, 12:05 PM
Is Charlie Sheen a member here? If so that's wicked cool! (Charlie, big fan of your work!)

Me too Jeff, huge fan of Charlie's!

Section103
05-27-2010, 12:08 PM
Is it calm enough to do the "my phone number is 867-5309" joke yet? :)

FUBAR
05-27-2010, 12:12 PM
Is it calm enough to do the "my phone number is 867-5309" joke yet? :)

thats means your real id is richard jenny! lol

Section103
05-27-2010, 12:13 PM
thats means your real id is richard jenny! lol

Crap, I didnt think about that!

FUBAR
05-27-2010, 12:14 PM
Crap, I didnt think about that!

that's because you don't live on my planet! it's special, we wear tin foil hats!

Lordstan
05-27-2010, 12:24 PM
be careful Jim D, you don't want to let everyone know where you live.
We all might want to come for a visit:D

bmarlowe1
05-27-2010, 12:27 PM
A few years ago, someone that was not a part of my hobby life started asking me questions about things I'd posted on this board. I found that incredibly creepy, since I'd never even told this person that I collected.

When I googled my name, I discovered that my posts here were easily searchable. This person had googled me and apparently felt that the fact that my posts here were public, that gave them the right to insert themselves into this part of my life.

I found that it was pretty easy to prevent that from happening just by sticking a period inbetween two letters of my last name. Now my posts here don't show up in google searches.

At the same time, I like that people know who they're talking with when I'm engaging them in threads here. And I like knowing who I'm talking with as well. This is a small hobby, and we've seen plenty of situations where anonymous posts here turn out to be posts that are driven by an agenda.

I almost always take a post more seriously when I know the name of the person making it.

-Al

The insertion of a "." or a "_" or other character in a name is well-known, and it may not prevent a savvy searcher from finding your posts with a bit of trial and error.

FUBAR
05-27-2010, 12:29 PM
be careful Jim D, you don't want to let everyone know where you live.
We all might want to come for a visit:D

put on your foil hat on come on over!!!

Al C.risafulli
05-27-2010, 01:45 PM
The insertion of a "." or a "_" or other character in a name is well-known, and it may not prevent a savvy searcher from finding your posts with a bit of trial and error.

Sure. But if somebody's going to go through that much to find me, they're going to find me anyway.

But it masks my posts from the casual associate that's just prying in places they don't belong.

-Al

Rickyy
05-27-2010, 02:57 PM
I'm partially exposed... ;)

FUBAR
05-27-2010, 03:13 PM
too much info!!!

Leon
05-27-2010, 03:54 PM
I'm partially exposed... ;)

Yikes, I am fully exposed but people think I am only half exposed. I think I should be worried!! :o

steve B
05-27-2010, 04:05 PM
This is a standard response to invasion of privacy claims: "I have nothing to hide, so why should you?"

Nope, I have stuff I'd prefer stay hidden. I just don't put it out anywhere. Anything I make public I'm glad to have public.

What I'm saying is that if you can find anything I'd prefer kept private simply from my name, it's possibly worth the exposure to know how it may have become accessible. That way I can change my proceedures. It's not as easy to get info as they make it seem on NCIS.

Steve B

mcap100176
05-27-2010, 04:28 PM
This is really me.....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdeCPGNRjOU

BCauley
05-27-2010, 05:26 PM
I have no issues with having my name on this site. I realized the rules when I signed up for this place and Leon wasn't holding a gun to my head forcing me to join, I did it on my own free will understanding the rules.

It's really not hard to find out information about people. I did a search on my fathers name on some site recently. What it pulls up is the address of the person, phone number, average annual household income, and some other nonsense that should not be out there but is. And this was free, not one of those pay for information sites. On top of that, I just know of many other ways that people are able to find out about others if they want too.

What I do enjoy is that out of the forums in which I am a member (all of 3), this is the best one. Not just because it's pre-war, but the people, for the most part, respect one another and have actual civil conversations about cards, collecting, Seinfeld.....etc etc etc. The other two sites I'm on (anonymous ones), have much more in the way of juvenile tendencies and moronic threads/posts. There are great people on those other forums but a good sized percentage of people that hang around there just like to act like morons because nobody knows who they are.

I'm not really sure if my post even means anything or if it's going anywhere so I'll just stop.

Rich Klein
05-27-2010, 07:38 PM
It *IS* a basic right to know WHOM is attacking you for any reason. If I get flamed for any reason on this board and I don't know who is doing that; I want to know why.

Joe P, now resting; always wanted to topic to be cards only; no side shows. I, on the other hand, always enjoyed the diversions. Those frankly are part of life as well

So, to reiterate. If you want to stay unknown and post on a subject such as -- please make me recommendations on baseball books to read; then go right ahead

If you want to stay unknown and post on a subject such as;.... BCCG Sucks; PSA is terrible; SGC is worthless, The Standard Catalog is horsebleep because nothing past 2000 is in print in that book;... well guess what -- those words should have a NAME next to them. I know from my days at Beckett, we always respected those people willing to put their names to their opinions. And, when they had specific issues, we always listened.

There are boards such as the PSA boards where people are only known by their SN's. And Bobby of VCP got hammered a few months ago over something I suspect he had no control over plus the person bitching never mentioned his name on the board. Sorry folks; you got a complaint; put your name to it

Regards
Rich

Peter_Spaeth
05-27-2010, 07:59 PM
It *IS* a basic right to know WHOM is attacking you for any reason. If I get flamed for any reason on this board and I don't know who is doing that; I want to know why.

Joe P, now resting; always wanted to topic to be cards only; no side shows. I, on the other hand, always enjoyed the diversions. Those frankly are part of life as well

So, to reiterate. If you want to stay unknown and post on a subject such as -- please make me recommendations on baseball books to read; then go right ahead

If you want to stay unknown and post on a subject such as;.... BCCG Sucks; PSA is terrible; SGC is worthless, The Standard Catalog is horsebleep because nothing past 2000 is in print in that book;... well guess what -- those words should have a NAME next to them. I know from my days at Beckett, we always respected those people willing to put their names to their opinions. And, when they had specific issues, we always listened.

There are boards such as the PSA boards where people are only known by their SN's. And Bobby of VCP got hammered a few months ago over something I suspect he had no control over plus the person bitching never mentioned his name on the board. Sorry folks; you got a complaint; put your name to it

Regards
Rich

Great post, whoever you are.:)

sportscardtheory
05-27-2010, 09:04 PM
It *IS* a basic right to know WHOM is attacking you for any reason. If I get flamed for any reason on this board and I don't know who is doing that; I want to know why.

Joe P, now resting; always wanted to topic to be cards only; no side shows. I, on the other hand, always enjoyed the diversions. Those frankly are part of life as well

So, to reiterate. If you want to stay unknown and post on a subject such as -- please make me recommendations on baseball books to read; then go right ahead

If you want to stay unknown and post on a subject such as;.... BCCG Sucks; PSA is terrible; SGC is worthless, The Standard Catalog is horsebleep because nothing past 2000 is in print in that book;... well guess what -- those words should have a NAME next to them. I know from my days at Beckett, we always respected those people willing to put their names to their opinions. And, when they had specific issues, we always listened.

There are boards such as the PSA boards where people are only known by their SN's. And Bobby of VCP got hammered a few months ago over something I suspect he had no control over plus the person bitching never mentioned his name on the board. Sorry folks; you got a complaint; put your name to it

Regards
Rich

This doesn't explain what you plan on doing when you get someone's info. So you get your feelings hurt, or worse, and now you know their name. Now what. You just look at it, or do you plan on some sort of retaliation?

Leon
05-28-2010, 12:11 AM
This doesn't explain what you plan on doing when you get someone's info. So you get your feelings hurt, or worse, and now you know their name. Now what. You just look at it, or do you plan on some sort of retaliation?

Sportscardtheory- Just get over it. You are going to be held accountable on this board and your name will be given out, at minimum privately if not publicly, if you do one of the things that has been talked about warranting it. One other reason that this is a good rule is that someone blasting xyz company or xyz person could have some other hidden agenda....such as they are an employee for another company and are blasting the competition or a myriad of other situations. The new registration process makes it where no anonymity is allowed and privacy is given to those that don't get into arguments or heated debates etc......As has been said numerous times, when you have to put your name out there then you sometimes will act a bit differently, which is a good thing in my book. This is not personal at all. Same rules for everyone. Anyone want to know my name, no problem.

sportscardtheory
05-28-2010, 07:46 AM
Sportscardtheory- Just get over it. You are going to be held accountable on this board and your name will be given out, at minimum privately if not publicly, if you do one of the things that has been talked about warranting it. One other reason that this is a good rule is that someone blasting xyz company or xyz person could have some other hidden agenda....such as they are an employee for another company and are blasting the competition or a myriad of other situations. The new registration process makes it where no anonymity is allowed and privacy is given to those that don't get into arguments or heated debates etc......As has been said numerous times, when you have to put your name out there then you sometimes will act a bit differently, which is a good thing in my book. This is not personal at all. Same rules for everyone. Anyone want to know my name, no problem.

The thread is specifically about anonymity on the board, and that is what I am discussing... sorry.

Jim VB
05-28-2010, 08:17 AM
Generally speaking, people tend to be a little more careful about what they say, and how they say it, when their identity may be known. This is a good thing, for the general mood of a hobby message board. They are usually more willing to say crazy things if they are unknown.

Also, communicating through message boards removes all tone from the conversation.

This combination of saying crazy things and lack of tone can be a dangerous combination.


On the other hand, I fully understand people wanting to be anonymous for reasons related to their jobs, careers, or families. Although most regular board members know my name, I choose not to use my full name in my posts, for that reason.

With an open board of this size (close to 2000 registered members) you have to walk that fine line. Just remember that if you let yourself get dragged into one of these catfights, and you say stupid stuff, people have the right (according to this board's rules) to find out who you are.

Al C.risafulli
05-28-2010, 11:01 AM
This doesn't explain what you plan on doing when you get someone's info. So you get your feelings hurt, or worse, and now you know their name. Now what. You just look at it, or do you plan on some sort of retaliation?

I'll tell you why its important to me, Sportscardtheory.

If I read a post from someone and I don't know their name, and they're just posting about cards, its no big deal. Ask a question, make a comment, post a scan, it's all good. Nice to have you as part of the community.

But if I read a post from someone making an inflammatory remark, or getting involved in a debate about auction houses, specific sellers, a bad transaction, grading companies, or whatever, I want to know who it is that's making the post. If that person isn't willing to disclose their name, I assume automatically that they're hiding. Maybe it's an employee of one auction house, criticizing another. Maybe its a collector who had a bad experience with one grading company, and now they're making anonymous, negative comments because they have an axe to grind. Maybe it's someone who doesn't get along with a particular collector, taking potshots at him because of a personal dislike.

And sure, maybe it's a perfectly honest criticism.

But we've seen so many times on message boards where the person posting controversial comments in an anonymous way is actually someone with a hidden agenda. On the hobby message boards, I've seen competitors arguing with each other, both using anonymous IDs. I've seen guys who are known consignors to auction house A, criticizing auction house B. I've seen guys making anonymous posts on a message board, hyping a card on eBay, where it turns out that they're the owner of the card - or criticizing a card on eBay, when they turn out to be the winning bidder. We've even seen guys who are in legal disputes with companies in the hobby, anonymously criticizing the person they're in the dispute with - or trying to clear their own name, pretending to be someone else, giving a testimonial.

If I'm going to read someone's opinion on a controversial topic, WHO is writing it is almost as important as WHAT they're writing.

-Al

sportscardtheory
05-28-2010, 11:29 AM
I'll tell you why its important to me, Sportscardtheory.

If I read a post from someone and I don't know their name, and they're just posting about cards, its no big deal. Ask a question, make a comment, post a scan, it's all good. Nice to have you as part of the community.

But if I read a post from someone making an inflammatory remark, or getting involved in a debate about auction houses, specific sellers, a bad transaction, grading companies, or whatever, I want to know who it is that's making the post. If that person isn't willing to disclose their name, I assume automatically that they're hiding. Maybe it's an employee of one auction house, criticizing another. Maybe its a collector who had a bad experience with one grading company, and now they're making anonymous, negative comments because they have an axe to grind. Maybe it's someone who doesn't get along with a particular collector, taking potshots at him because of a personal dislike.

And sure, maybe it's a perfectly honest criticism.

But we've seen so many times on message boards where the person posting controversial comments in an anonymous way is actually someone with a hidden agenda. On the hobby message boards, I've seen competitors arguing with each other, both using anonymous IDs. I've seen guys who are known consignors to auction house A, criticizing auction house B. I've seen guys making anonymous posts on a message board, hyping a card on eBay, where it turns out that they're the owner of the card - or criticizing a card on eBay, when they turn out to be the winning bidder. We've even seen guys who are in legal disputes with companies in the hobby, anonymously criticizing the person they're in the dispute with - or trying to clear their own name, pretending to be someone else, giving a testimonial.

If I'm going to read someone's opinion on a controversial topic, WHO is writing it is almost as important as WHAT they're writing.

-Al

If someone is in a heated discussion and not doing any of the things you have stated, then I see that this is where the line is hazy. This thing started with someone, who I hadn't even had any kind of inflammatory discussion with, calling out for my name to be publicly displayed for God knows why. I didn't say anything derogatory, nothing that would harm anyone or their business. Nothing but opinionated discussion on the topic at-hand with a few defensive posts at some posters who were being inflammatory themselves (I didn't ask for THEIR names to be exposed because I simply don't care, BTW). So I'll ask again, what would anyone do with my name when I was simply discussing the Joe Jackson T202 and someone didn't like my tone.

Leon
05-28-2010, 11:38 AM
If someone is in a heated discussion and not doing any of the things you have stated, then I see that this is where the line is hazy. This thing started with someone, who I hadn't even had any kind of inflammatory discussion with, calling out for my name to be publicly displayed for God knows why. I didn't say anything derogatory, nothing that would harm anyone or their business. Nothing but opinionated discussion on the topic at-hand with a few defensive posts at some posters who were being inflammatory themselves (I didn't ask for THEIR names to be exposed because I simply don't care, BTW). So I'll ask again, what would anyone do with my name when I was simply discussing the Joe Jackson T202 and someone didn't like my tone.

Well, I sort of thought this thread would get about 2-3 replies and go away. Everyone that has been on the board for any length of time (more than a yr) knows the protocol.

When we are having debates we like to "consider the source." When we don't know the source it is hard to make a determination on their judgement. This board is different than many, probably, as at least several hundred of us know each other personally. I have stayed at Teddy Z's house before and got to taste his lovely wife's lasagna. I got to stay with Barry Sloate for a weekend one time and met his lovely wife. For the last 10 yrs or so I have had a booth with my partner, Scott B, at the National. We have had 8 yrs (not this one) of Net54 Dinners at the National. So, maybe this is unlike other boards in that many of us know each other personally. We like to know who we are arguing with, and as stated many times, knowing that each and every person has to stand behind their comments makes this board a bit more real than some others where that is not the case. Hope this helps. regards

barrysloate
05-28-2010, 11:45 AM
Sportscardtheory (if that's your real name)- let's look at it another way. If you insist on anonymity you've got it. The board rules allow this. But there's a small trade off, and that is you need to be very careful what you say and how you say it. I just reviewed a string of your posts on the Joe Jackson thread and they weren't that benign. I saw you get snippy with several veteran posters, among them Rhett Yeakley who is respected around here by everyone. So the bottom line is we do have some rules and you have to play by them. And that's how you earn your anonymity.

teetwoohsix
05-28-2010, 11:59 AM
Since we're still talking about it, I have a question. Are you still considered anonymous when you only use your first name last initial, or when you only go by a screen name?

Clayton

Leon
05-28-2010, 12:04 PM
Since we're still talking about it, I have a question. Are you still considered anonymous when you only use your first name last initial, or when you only go by a screen name?

Clayton

Unless we know your real first and last name you are publicly anonymous. I would still give out your info, at least privately, when warranted.

sportscardtheory
05-28-2010, 12:04 PM
Sportscardtheory (if that's your real name)- let's look at it another way. If you insist on anonymity you've got it. The board rules allow this. But there's a small trade off, and that is you need to be very careful what you say and how you say it. I just reviewed a string of your posts on the Joe Jackson thread and they weren't that benign. I saw you get snippy with several veteran posters, among them Rhett Yeakley who is respected around here by everyone. So the bottom line is we do have some rules and you have to play by them. And that's how you earn your anonymity.

You know why I got snippy with him. It's right there in the thread. He was editing my posts and displaying them out of context to make me look bad. I'm not one to let someone punch me in the face without defending myself. He didn't have to do that, but he chose to. I believe my tone in that thread was fine and I stand behind every word I typed. I went through and read every single post I made and I didn't see anything that would warrant any kind of "punishment" or metaphorical "public flogging". Many others were FAR more inflammatory than myself and no one said a word. Just because you all don't know me personally, doesn't mean I'm any less of a person. I deserve the same respect as someone with their full name displayed. I'm not going to keep posting in this thread, I don't want to step on any toes as I enjoy this site and just want to be left alone. Sorry to anyone who doesn't like my posts, they are not and were not meant to disrupt. Good day.

teetwoohsix
05-28-2010, 12:05 PM
Thanks Leon.

Clayton

barrysloate
05-28-2010, 12:14 PM
Well I'm not a moderator so I will defer to Leon to sort this all out.

Leon
05-28-2010, 12:48 PM
You know why I got snippy with him. It's right there in the thread. He was editing my posts and displaying them out of context to make me look bad. I'm not one to let someone punch me in the face without defending myself. He didn't have to do that, but he chose to. I believe my tone in that thread was fine and I stand behind every word I typed. I went through and read every single post I made and I didn't see anything that would warrant any kind of "punishment" or metaphorical "public flogging". Many others were FAR more inflammatory than myself and no one said a word. Just because you all don't know me personally, doesn't mean I'm any less of a person. I deserve the same respect as someone with their full name displayed. I'm not going to keep posting in this thread, I don't want to step on any toes as I enjoy this site and just want to be left alone. Sorry to anyone who doesn't like my posts, they are not and were not meant to disrupt. Good day.


Just to be clear no one edited your posts although they may have quoted you out of context. I don't know that for sure nor am I going back to sort it out. Only moderators have the ability to edit a post. The moderators on this board are Matt Wieder, Brian McQueen, Dan Bretta and myself. I can safely say that none of those guys have ever edited anything out of a post (except maybe profanity or possibly personal info). I do it on very rare occasions, and I mean very rare (I don't even remember a time but there could have been 1-2), or when there is profanity. If a post is edited it is automatically seen as an edit by whomever edited it. Us moderators all try to keep out of disputes as much as possible, unless we are the ones IN the dispute :). I really find it hard to believe there is this much discussion about this subject but I guess with so many new folks it makes sense. regards

rhettyeakley
05-28-2010, 01:12 PM
How was I qouting you out of context within the exact thread that you made the statements that I was quoting? The fact that they were within that thread implies the context.

I really had no idea any of this was about our little spat on that thread. I did no editing in any way. All I did was click on your "name" then click on the "see all posts by user" and went down the list and copied some of your remarks, total time to do that...2 minutes between patients at work. You give me way too much credit if you think I would waste my time taking any statements by you (whoever you are) out of context.
-Rhett

jmk59
05-28-2010, 09:17 PM
Everyone that has been on the board for any length of time (more than a yr) knows the protocol.

This. This is exactly it.

Maybe I'm just crabby from being gone all week and a long travel day today, but I am honestly just so sick of newer or unknown people coming on this board and bitching about the way it is - things that have been done for years.

People say that new people don't want to post here because they will get bashed for lack of knowledge about cards. Honestly, I don't know if I can really think of that ever happening. But they might get bashed for coming on here and immediately splashing around with lack of knowledge of culture. Or worse, having the culture explained to them, they insist and demand it should be different.

There are a lot of us that have been around here for a long time. That doesn't make us better people or better collectors or whatever. But we have invested in this board and this culture - have dedicated time and emotion and relationships and thinking and every other damn thing so that it has a certain tone of civility and certain ways about it.

And it just grinds me to freaking sawdust that people who have invested next to nothing in this board and its culture want to call shots on how it should be. People like Chicago and others even more recently. Not all new people - Clayton, for example, has fit in here seamlessly from his first day - so definitely this is not painting a broad brush to all newer people.

I actually miss the rule of the old board where you had to put your full name ON YOUR POSTS for controversial posts and/or threads. It wasn't enough that Leon knew it and no one had to request it. Full name on your posts. Now that contributed to some self-moderation. [OK. sometimes self moderation :)] If you wanted to keep your name off the board, you had to shut your mouth on controversial posts. Simple as that. And it worked.

I'm just tired of people with little history here b1tching about this or that part of the culture and wanting it different, even after people - long term, decent, nice people that have CONTRIBUTED TO WHAT THIS BOARD WAS BUILT INTO - nicely explain to them the reason and history behind some of our idiosyncrasies.

Sorry for the rant. I must be just really worn out here. But this has been really bothering me for a very long time, and in my opinion has weakened the sense of community of this board.

J.oann K.line - see? That's how it's freaking done.

sportscardtheory
05-28-2010, 09:46 PM
This. This is exactly it.

Maybe I'm just crabby from being gone all week and a long travel day today, but I am honestly just so sick of newer or unknown people coming on this board and bitching about the way it is - things that have been done for years.

People say that new people don't want to post here because they will get bashed for lack of knowledge about cards. Honestly, I don't know if I can really think of that ever happening. But they might get bashed for coming on here and immediately splashing around with lack of knowledge of culture. Or worse, having the culture explained to them, they insist and demand it should be different.

There are a lot of us that have been around here for a long time. That doesn't make us better people or better collectors or whatever. But we have invested in this board and this culture - have dedicated time and emotion and relationships and thinking and every other damn thing so that it has a certain tone of civility and certain ways about it.

And it just grinds me to freaking sawdust that people who have invested next to nothing in this board and its culture want to call shots on how it should be. People like Chicago and others even more recently. Not all new people - Clayton, for example, has fit in here seamlessly from his first day - so definitely this is not painting a broad brush to all newer people.

I actually miss the rule of the old board where you had to put your full name ON YOUR POSTS for controversial posts and/or threads. It wasn't enough that Leon knew it and no one had to request it. Full name on your posts. Now that contributed to some self-moderation. [OK. sometimes self moderation :)] If you wanted to keep your name off the board, you had to shut your mouth on controversial posts. Simple as that. And it worked.

I'm just tired of people with little history here b1tching about this or that part of the culture and wanting it different, even after people - long term, decent, nice people that have CONTRIBUTED TO WHAT THIS BOARD WAS BUILT INTO - nicely explain to them the reason and history behind some of our idiosyncrasies.

Sorry for the rant. I must be just really worn out here. But this has been really bothering me for a very long time, and in my opinion has weakened the sense of community of this board.

J.oann K.line - see? That's how it's freaking done.

I don't see anyone "bitching" about it. Personally, I was just curious as to why some protocol is how it is. It's simple curiosity. No one is trying to harm you or this board. People seem to be so paranoid around here, has there been a lot of "moles" in the past trying to harm board members? Again, just curiosity.

Abravefan11
05-28-2010, 09:52 PM
But we've seen so many times on message boards where the person posting controversial comments in an anonymous way is actually someone with a hidden agenda. On the hobby message boards, I've seen competitors arguing with each other, both using anonymous IDs. I've seen guys who are known consignors to auction house A, criticizing auction house B. I've seen guys making anonymous posts on a message board, hyping a card on eBay, where it turns out that they're the owner of the card - or criticizing a card on eBay, when they turn out to be the winning bidder. We've even seen guys who are in legal disputes with companies in the hobby, anonymously criticizing the person they're in the dispute with - or trying to clear their own name, pretending to be someone else, giving a testimonial.

If I'm going to read someone's opinion on a controversial topic, WHO is writing it is almost as important as WHAT they're writing.

-Al

SCT the quote above is EXACTLY why full disclosure is needed on this particular message board concerning specific types of posts. If you refrain from getting involved in any of these discussions you're free to remain anonymous, if you choose to participate we should know who you are.

Jim VB
05-28-2010, 10:25 PM
I don't see anyone "bitching" about it.

You did. You demanded that Leon remove your name from the board after he posted it. You opted for the banning, albeit temporarily. You mentioned consulting an attorney, which Leon interpreted, rightly or wrongly, as a threat to sue.

Yet everyone who has been here for any period of time KNEW that your name could be published. (I believe it's in the rules.)

That constitutes "bitching" in my book.

Granted, since then you have been very conciliatory, and have tried to fit in. But for a period of time, you were unhappy with the rules governing this board. And they weren't new. You were.

sportscardtheory
05-28-2010, 11:03 PM
You did. You demanded that Leon remove your name from the board after he posted it. You opted for the banning, albeit temporarily. You mentioned consulting an attorney, which Leon interpreted, rightly or wrongly, as a threat to sue.

Yet everyone who has been here for any period of time KNEW that your name could be published. (I believe it's in the rules.)

That constitutes "bitching" in my book.

Granted, since then you have been very conciliatory, and have tried to fit in. But for a period of time, you were unhappy with the rules governing this board. And they weren't new. You were.

I didn't know that's how it is until it happened. I'm certainly not bitching about it now that I know it's policy.

P.S. I never "demanded" anything. I asked.

FUBAR
05-28-2010, 11:11 PM
can we stop kicking this dead horse please!!!!!!

teetwoohsix
05-29-2010, 01:21 AM
Thanks Joann, I do appreciate that.

Sincerely,Clayton

barrysloate
05-29-2010, 05:17 AM
Sportcardtheory- regarding your question do we have a history of "moles" coming on this board? Yes, we have had a number of instances where a new poster comes on and circumvents all the rules. Often it's someone with an aggressive personality, or an agenda against an auction house or grading company, and he will kind of take over the board. He doesn't see it as a long standing community, and uses it as a soapbox for his personal complaints.

So the board has become sensitive to new posters who come on like gangbusters. As we've said veteran posters will get cut a little more slack. All anybody asks is that we all follow the rules and exhibit a little decorum.

kcohen
05-29-2010, 05:23 PM
Well said, Barry Goat

signed: John Doe

Kawika
05-29-2010, 07:07 PM
I don't know who the hell half you people are and I have a hard time taking you seriously on account of it.

David McDonald
Honolulu, Hawaii

PS. Keys are under the mat, baseball cards are in the library, and there's a half-sack of beer in the fridge.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/bbbofsfirstclass/miscellanybaseball/websize/Anonymous.jpg

BCauley
05-29-2010, 07:14 PM
I don't know who the hell half you people are and I have a hard time taking you seriously on account of it.

David McDonald
Honolulu, Hawaii

PS. Keys are under the mat, baseball cards are in the library, and there's a half-sack of beer in the fridge.


Hmmm....what kind of beer?

Bill Cauley
Alexandria, VA

No beer, a little bit of gin left but no tonic, and I'm making popcorn soon.

bijoem
05-29-2010, 07:25 PM
PS. Keys are under the mat, baseball cards are in the library, and there's a half-sack of beer in the fridge.



nice! I will be right over (and will bring the other half-sack of beer).

Rich Klein
05-29-2010, 07:31 PM
I'll lay claim to the off-quality 1990's cards :)

Vol
05-29-2010, 11:23 PM
I am not only a new board member but also a new collector of pre-war cards. I appreciate that alot of folks here have, before the internet age, gained a wealth of knowledge and insight that comes thru with their posts. There was a time, yes I remember, that you had to carefully research things without the help of Google! You had to really work hard to learn about cards that were made over 60+ years ago. Now, all I gotta do is log on and read!

I just wanted to say thanks to Leon for this great message board. And thanks to all the members here. This isn't a democracy, and if Leon seems fit to ask a few things from the members here, why would anyone question him? This costs me exactly no dollars a month, yet I am on here each and everyday for an hour of more. Easily my most favorite place to frequent on the web. And by far the cheapest thing I do all week.

So, in my mind, this is Leon's world..What he says goes.

As Lebowski would say, "The dude abides."

FUBAR
05-29-2010, 11:45 PM
Kawika... you forgot to mention your two security guards.. Mr Smith and Mr Wesson!

Kawika
05-29-2010, 11:50 PM
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners.

sportscardtheory
05-30-2010, 09:07 AM
This was a VALUED rug.

PolarBear
06-03-2010, 01:24 PM
Interesting thread. Count me in the group (which seems to be very few) that think people should remain anonymous.

I agree with the point that if you're in a heated discussion with someone and you find out their name, then what? Why do you need that info?

It also seems to me that if the mods give out people's private info, they could be liable if someone does go postal. Dumb policy if you ask me.

That being said, I don't have a problem with the board owner knowing who his "customers" are, and moderating the board accordingly. It makes no sense that the personal information needs to be shared beyond that.

What's funny though is that SCT has precipitated this discussion. He's been banned from several sites as a troll, including some alts. You'd think he'd be smart enough to realize that some people here are also on other boards. Guess not.

sportscardtheory
06-03-2010, 06:29 PM
Interesting thread. Count me in the group (which seems to be very few) that think people should remain anonymous.

I agree with the point that if you're in a heated discussion with someone and you find out their name, then what? Why do you need that info?

It also seems to me that if the mods give out people's private info, they could be liable if someone does go postal. Dumb policy if you ask me.

That being said, I don't have a problem with the board owner knowing who his "customers" are, and moderating the board accordingly. It makes no sense that the personal information needs to be shared beyond that.

What's funny though is that SCT has precipitated this discussion. He's been banned from several sites as a troll, including some alts. You'd think he'd be smart enough to realize that some people here are also on other boards. Guess not.

You are either a liar or just enjoy saying ignorant things. I haven't been banned from ANY sites and I have not ONE "alt" anywhere on any site. You fail.

Gene Palmer
06-03-2010, 07:12 PM
I don't have a problem with exposing myself (unliteraly. I know Barry that's not a word). I really don't expect to get into any heated exchanges as I'm just a lurker trying not to look stupid.

However, I have decided that tomorrow I'm going to go to a plastic surgeon and have my face done to look exactly like Leon's so I can get my wife $16 haircuts. I'll be able to save enough money in no time for a T206
Wagner! :D

Leon
06-03-2010, 08:16 PM
I don't have a problem with exposing myself (unliteraly. I know Barry that's not a word). I really don't expect to get into any heated exchanges as I'm just a lurker trying not to look stupid.

However, I have decided that tomorrow I'm going to go to a plastic surgeon and have my face done to look exactly like Leon's so I can get my wife $16 haircuts. I'll be able to save enough money in no time for a T206
Wagner! :D

Uh...ok, so what does that mean? I haven't had to pay $16 for a haircut in years!! Someone would want to look like me:confused:? I am flattered :o.

PolarBear
06-03-2010, 08:58 PM
You are either a liar or just enjoy saying ignorant things. I haven't been banned from ANY sites and I have not ONE "alt" anywhere on any site. You fail.


I'll retract the statement since I obviously can't prove any of it.