View Full Version : OT- Pete Rose & the HOF
FUBAR
05-19-2010, 12:33 AM
I am unsure if this has been discussed, i imagine it has but with all the new members, lets hear what others think.
Should Pete Rose (aka Charlie Hustle) be in the Hall of Fame?
My answer to this is Yes, because his gambling has nothing to do with his accomplishments as a player!
FUBAR
05-19-2010, 12:35 AM
I wanted to do a poll but couldn't figure out how to do that!
nolemmings
05-19-2010, 01:33 AM
Here are some views on the subject from not that long ago:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=114578&highlight=pete+rose
FUBAR
05-19-2010, 02:56 PM
Poor Pete took a pounding in that thread...
What do people feel about others, should they get into the Hall?
Barry Bonds
Mark Mcgwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Jose Conseco
Sammy Sosa (the black one, not the new white one)
and even
A-fraud
ChiefBenderForever
05-19-2010, 07:12 PM
Pete Rose will probably be elected when he is dead. He is the hit king and his gambling had nothing to do with that. As I've said before, if he isn't elected I am fine with that, as long as greats like Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker, Cap Anson and a few others are removed.
steve B
05-19-2010, 08:54 PM
I think it would be a nice gesture if they put in Rose and Joe Jackson at the same time. But I'm not expecting that anytime soon.
One thing that also keeps Rose out is some of the other stuff he did off the field. Like selling the same "bat that got hit # XXXX" to several different people. I don't recall his ever using 4-5 bats simultaneously.
The modern guys I'm on the fence about. Technically, they didn't cheat as it wasn't against the rules at the time. But it's not really a hall of fame, nor as it often appears a hall of easily measured stats. It is a hall of popularity, especially popularity with the press. I think it's a bit unfortunate but public opinion as led by the press will judge them pretty harshly. Especially Bonds.
He's an especially sad case, I took a good long look at his career stats, and I came to the conclusion that barring major injury he would have set the home run record only a couple years later, maybe only a year later. (Unless you assume he'd been on the juice for years)
I honestly think they all belong, Juiced batters hitting off juiced pitchers, seems a bit of a wash. Over the long run I think people will consider it as hard to compare steroid era guys to other eras as it is to compare deadball era guys to those that came later.
Steve B
Robextend
05-19-2010, 08:57 PM
Barry Bonds - YES
Mark Mcgwire - NO
Rafael Palmeiro - MAYBE
Jose Canseco - NO
Sammy Sosa (the black one, not the new white one) - MAYBE
Roid-Rod - YES
I think Bonds and A-Rod are still 1st ballot HOFers because their accomplishments IMO trump the fact that they are implicated in that scandal. Unless the voters are totally against any player implicated getting in, those 2 guys are sure to be HOFers.
Sosa and Palmeiro are tougher for me to decide. Palmeiro lied under oath, not sure how much that will hurt him. Are the numbers there? Sure, but I think he will have a tough time getting in. It is a shame because I grew up watching him destroy my Yanks, and he was one of the best pure hitters I ever seen. Sosa is another clown, not only was he implicated in the steroid scandal, he also was found with a corked bat! Then he all of the sudden forgets how to speak English in front of congress.
Canseco is a definite no...is he even on the ballot anymore? He just didn't have HOF type numbers when it was all said and done, plus he was seemingly the biggest roider of all time.
McGwire will probably not get in either. Besides being implicated in the steroid scandal, he was kind of a one dimensional player. Also the percentage of votes he has been receiving don't indicate he will get in.
Rob
perezfan
05-28-2010, 12:23 AM
Regarding Rose... I say a resounding YES.
Regarding the others...
Bonds - Yes
McGwire - No
Palmeiro - No
Canseco - No
Sosa - Yes
A-Rod - Yes
I really don't care for the steroid-era players, but think some will eventually be considered, given the era they played in. They did cheat, but some would have made the Hall regardless (and I think the passing of time may be kind to the cream of the crop). I picked Bonds, Sosa and A-Rod, as all three will end up with over 600 HRs and I feel they were the best of the bunch that you laid out.
Just a gut feeling, and not based on any fact. I don't personally care for any of them... just guessing what may happen by 2020 or so. :confused:
tiger8mush
05-28-2010, 03:26 PM
Rose, Bonds, A-roid = YES
all others listed = NO
Bonds was amazing to watch for a couple years. You had two choices ... intentionally walk him or throw something close to the plate and watch it sail over the fence. He was breaking some of Ruth's slugging % and BB records that would seemingly never be touched. Then all of a sudden, he was released (or a FA) and no one would go near him. I know he was a risk and attracted a lot of unwanted publicity, but wouldn't you think a small market team would pay him $10M so they could attract more fans to the stadium and sell some jerseys?
As a side note, I also think manram will be a future HOFer, despite being a known PED user. I don't think big poopi will though. And I'd throw Roger Clemens in there too as being a HOFer. The juiced pitchers faced the juiced hitters.
Rob
:)
chris6net
05-28-2010, 09:29 PM
Rose-yes
the others no!
HRBAKER
05-30-2010, 01:50 PM
I am bothered as much or more with Rose's continual lying for years and years about the rather obvious. I would never vote him in but I believe that he will eventually get in after his death.
As for the others, they made a conscious decision to cheat, legal or illegal. If it was legal and not against the rules why not admit it and say sure I did it and there is nothing wrong with it.
There is no way to know how much better it made each of them but the point is that we shouldn't have to even wonder. To me it showed a total lack of respect for the game.
FUBAR
05-30-2010, 03:55 PM
HRBAKER.. I pose this question to you...
If it, at the time, was still legal, How is that cheating? Unethical , i will give you that, but cheating may be a little harsh!
I believe Jose when he said that steroids were almost encouraged early on because it put people into the stands... more taters meant more fans.
As I've looooong said about steroids, if it didn't help performance they wouldn't take steroids, and if they didn't thing there was something wrong with taking steroids they would have no problem admitting to it. When a player takes steroids and bends over backwards to deny taking the steroids, that's all you need to know.
HRBAKER
06-01-2010, 07:57 PM
As I've looooong said about steroids, if it didn't help performance they wouldn't take steroids, and if they didn't thing there was something wrong with taking steroids they would have no problem admitting to it. When a player takes steroids and bends over backwards to deny taking the steroids, that's all you need to know.
That's was my whole point. It's cheating or come out and say, "I did it. It's not cheating and I would do it again."
JasonL
08-25-2010, 02:55 PM
I am unsure if this has been discussed, i imagine it has but with all the new members, lets hear what others think.
Should Pete Rose (aka Charlie Hustle) be in the Hall of Fame?
My answer to this is Yes, because his gambling has nothing to do with his accomplishments as a player!
And Pete was all over the place, so I don't know what all the fuss is about!!! There were at least two displays that featured or prominently displayed Rose and his items...heck he had more stuff on display than many HOFers!
And Rose items abound in all of the memorabilia shops in that town...
:D:rolleyes:
Chris Counts
09-06-2010, 06:56 PM
Yes, Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame. Most definitely. But I have much bigger problems with the Hall of Fame, and baseball's leadership in general, than I do with Pete Rose ...
As for the others, they made a conscious decision to cheat, legal or illegal. If it was legal and not against the rules why not admit it and say sure I did it and there is nothing wrong with it.
I don't understand the argument that because baseball didn't have a rule against steroids that the players were doing nothing wrong. Has everybody forgotten that steroids are illegal - as in against the law? Does MLB need to ban everything that's against the law outside of baseball too? There's no rule against pulling out a gun and shooting the catcher so he can't tag you, so if somebody does that, is it cheating? C'mon.
The roiders* were all committing felonies, MLB rule or not.
Tabe
* - after 1993 or whenever it was that steroids were made illegal
HRBAKER
09-28-2010, 11:16 PM
Legal or illegal if they really thought there was nothing wrong with it then they wouldn't hide and deny. Simple enough. And Pete Rose, what a moron, he has only himself to blame, not baseball's leadership or anybody else that is already in the HOF.
No for Pete Rose. He is a prick who has never taken full responsibility for what he did. He likes to blame other people and complain about the injustice he has incurred. Tough shit. He is reaping what he sowed. Maybe if he fell on his sword and offered a sincere apology, I would feel differently. But the guy could not make it to his first invitation back to baseball, to take a bow at a Reds game on the anniversary of his record breaking hit because he had a previous commitment at a casino! You can't make this stuff up. NO! NO! NO!
JimB
dstraate
10-01-2010, 11:04 AM
I agree that Rose is a jerk/unrepentant idiot/money grubbing clown. For me, that doesn't matter. He belongs in the Hall more than 3/4 of the guys in it. If reaching the bar is somehow contingent upon character, then they need to do a pretty big review. The Hall is full of cheaters, swindlers, sinners, and jerks. It's not a canonization, it's baseball. Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, and A-Rod are three of the best to ever play.
Barry Bonds - YES
Mark Mcgwire - NO
Rafael Palmeiro - No
Jose Canseco - NO
Sammy Sosa - No
A-Rod - YES
chaddurbin
10-02-2010, 02:10 AM
bonds, clemens, arod--all hof'ers (and i hate their guts). they're the best of the steroid era.
the rest no, especially sosa...i don't feel like listening to a hof induction speech in spanish.
rose--most easy no ever.
bobafett72
10-02-2010, 01:54 PM
the day after he dies, he should be elected to the hall of fame.
RE: steroid users like bonds, mcgwire, palmeiro, sosa. never, ever.