Colgans E254 - 208 in series

[Leon]

I look for the "208 in present series" backed E254 Colgans fairly often and very rarely see one AND until now didn't have an example for my collection. The last one on ebay went for around $600, and if I recall correctly, it was a common. When I saw this one, even with the back damage, I knew I had to make a run at it. Fortunately no one else wanted it as bad as I did, though it still wasn't cheap at $100+. It's one of those little variations that keeps me going. Now for an upgrade, but at least I have one!!! Anymore info on these "208 in series"? Are there certain players with them or do all of them have the possibility? I did a quick search on the board and didn't see too much information so figure I will post a thread/question....

[rhettyeakley]

Leon, you got it for a pretty good price.

A hobby friend of mine has been looking for one for quite some time and we discussed this one and I laid off so he could go for it. I think he forgot to set his snipe and it went for lower han these normally go for (even with the damage).

I actively look for them and have 4 right now, they are very hard to find. I have checklisted only about 10-15 players as of now that have been found w/ the back but more undoubtedly exist.

The players I currently have...
-George Bell (Brooklyn) -big head version
-Fred Clarke (Pittsburgh)
-Red Nelson (Toledo)
-Lew Ritter (Kansas City) -Graded SGC 84
-I also used to own a Jim McGinley but I believe I sold this one to Lyman several years back and it is the Old Cardboard copy (I believe).

About 5 years ago or so there was a batch of about 10-15 of them on ebay. This was before I realized theis significance and bid on all of them and only got the fairly low grade Nelson and McGinley BUT I never bothered to write down who the other people w/ the back were as that one find would have likely doubled the current known checklist.

Luckily, a few years ago I purchased the Clarke off of ebay as I needed the "with "H" at the end of Pittsburgh" variation and there was a PSA 4 on ebay w/ a BIN of around $100 so I just bought it w/ no back scan and was pretty happy when the card arrived and it had the "208" line.

-Rhett

[brianp-beme]

Rhett, I remember those Ebay auctions, which would have been more like 7-8 years ago. There were 15 or more cards in individual lots...like you I wasn't fully aware of their scarcity, just that they were indeed very unusual. I think the first ones went for just over ten bucks, and gradually the winning bids went higher as the auctions went along (they were spaced every few minutes). I always regretted not bidding higher on at least one of them. I would guess/estimate that maybe one out of every 1000 of E254's would have this back, and I might be a little generous on this.

Brian

[rhettyeakley]

Brian, you are probably right about the time-line as it was quite a while ago.

I may have picked up the Ritter in that same grouping now that I think about it. I then got it graded several years ago. The Bell was pretty well hidden on ebay a year or so back and I had to pay about $200 for it.

Neat back variations!
-Rhett

[Leon]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I don't know about 1 in a 1000 having this back but it wouldn't surprise me if that is close, from what I have seen. This one also came with a green Colgan's tin and I still need to ask the seller if he believes one went with the other, originally, or how he acquired them? I fully understand it's been close to a hundred years but everyone has seen some finds that are original. It would be neat to find out if these backs were only issued in the green cans and so forth. It's in the nuances that keep it fun for me. Strangely, there are nuances of the more commonly collected sets that don't interest me as much. best regards

[rhettyeakley]

Leon, let us know what the seller says, but the tin that one comes w/ basically only eliminates 1909 as a date--as I think it has the 1910 copyright around the rim on the lid.

Most of the known player selection doesn't really help us w/ dating. However, one of the players I have seen w/ this back is the Harry Hooper w/ Boston Nat'l (error card). I speculate that this was the first version of Hooper made as it was in error and they corrected him to Boston A.L.--this is also supported by the fact that I have an E270 Tin Top of Hooper w/ the exact same image & font as the (imo) later Boston A.L. version. It wouldn't make sense to me that they would do the AL version then switch to the NL only to go back to the AL--so it is likely how I laid it out in terms of a time line. Also, it is interesting that I own a Red Nelson (Toledo) w/ this back as he never actually played for that team--if he was signed by them at some point and that can be discovered it will likely be the best possible chance (as of now) to "date" when the 208's were made.

It is more likely that the "208" back was only produced as a small print run, otherwise there would be more of them. The fact that Hooper NL is found that way we essentially know it wasn't the last print run as they later made the AL version--and the AL version is significantly easier to find as well so there was a fair amount produced after the change. If I had to venture a guess based on all that I have seen I would say the 208's were produced at ~the mid-point of the E254 distribution (likely in 1910). I reserve the right to proven totally wrong at some later date!

Hooper Boston NL
http://www.starsofthediamond.com/e254hoopernl.JPG

Hooper Boston AL (E254)
http://www.starsofthediamond.com/e254hooper2.JPG

Hooper Boston AL (E270)
http://www.starsofthediamond.com/e270hooper.JPG

[Myachelydra]

Agreed on the dating Rhett...I have always felt that these were from mid to late run (circa 1910-11). The Clarke (Pittsburgh) version that you have also points towards a later distribution date for the "208's" as Pittsburgh changed its name officially from Pittsburg (minus the "h") to Pittsburgh in 1911. Why Clarke's "Pittsburgh" was the only Pirate changed is another question.

Unfortunately I was the "ball-dropper" that Rhett mentioned on the Reulbach. A very busy week and a failure to adjust my snipe ='s no 208 for me.:(

[autograf]

I sold a group of 254 Colgans 3-4 years ago to a board member that contained a single example of the '208' back. It was Cy Seymour/Baltimore for anyone checklisting. I bought it off ebay 8-10 years ago for $100ish if I remember correctly. I know Mark Macrae has a number of these and may be able to shed more light on the discussion or add to the list of known players with '208' back.

[brianp-beme]

For decades the late Larry Fritsch advertised to purchase Colgans for his personal collection, and I even remember reading an article written by him about the set. If his Colgan collection is still intact, I imagine it might also offer up a decent amount of the 208 series back variations.

Brian

[rhettyeakley]

Tom, your Seymour (Baltimore) does help to shed a little light on the time period. Seymour began 1910 w/ the NY Giants and played 15 games at the end of 1910 for Batimore and then played the entire 1911 season for Baltimore. Thus the time period for these 208's has to be either late 1910 season or 1911 (probably early 1911 if that is the case). Seymour Baltimore is also a fairly tough card in the set for those keeping score at home.
-Rhett