Very interesting read, and sad....

[J.McMurry]

Sure this has been covered before, but this was a very interesting read. some people just need their A$$ kicked.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/

[T206DK]

Reading that story almost makes me want to stop collecting. too much dishonesty in this hobby today is ruining the fun. I didn't know the FBI was investigating REA for other sales of stolen items too. very depressing for me to hear especially after so many members here seem to speak so glowingly of Rob Lifeson and REA. It's hard to believe baseball card collecting has become a hobby fraught with so much theft and dishonesty. It's just cardboard that merely has intrinsic value. We will never be able to buy a loaf of bread with a T206 card !

[JP]

Interesting read indeed, but the less than subtle accusations against REA and Rob Lifson are inappropriate and unfounded. An auction house can't know the entire history behind everything they auction off, as even most owners themselves don't always know the provenance. The fact that REA took down the Welch card as soon as there was some question of ownership further proves that REA is the cream of the crop. Bringing up Rob's attempted theft from the library as a kid is just shoddy research and classless journalism...

[calvindog]

I'm not passing judgment on any of the allegations in the article posted but keep in mind that Peter Nash is about as biased as one could be against Rob Lifson and has a pretty sordid past in the hobby (as well as signing up on Net 54 with a fake name solely to bash Lifson). Might have been appropriate that he at least noted in the article his litigation with REA.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2009/07/30/2009-07-30_rapper_peter_nashs_memorabilia_legal_fight_turn ing_ugly.html

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/the_bonus/12/09/nash/1.html?eref=shareDigg

[JP]

I knew that name sounded familiar! As recent as I'm aware, he has lost every suit he has brought against REA and in fact has also been counter-sued each time and lost those as well, making at least partial restitution...

[Rob D.]

For those scoring at home, Jeff's the one who doesn't have anything consigned in REA's current auction.

[3-2-count]

Immediately into reading the article it's very clear to see it's written very one sided and is nothing but a personal attack.
Sorry, but I'm not giving any real credibility to the author here whatsoever.

[painthistorian]

As stated, the haulsofshame.com is sponsored by someone who had been in direct litigation w/ Robert, involving a lawsuit in which he has lost his case, and probably has some personal vendetta against REA.

Even if items were stolen from Hall of Fame, any auction house cannot be responsible for how items were obtained, but it is good that item was removed from auction in order to clear up this issue, I feel bad for the consignor.

[T206DK]

the fact that REA took the card down doesn't mean they are the cream of the crop by any means. What choice did they have really ? they either keep the card in the auction or they don't. It was the right thing to do, to remove the card in question in, my opinion. I don't know Peter Nash or his rep. If he has an axe to grind with Lifeson or REA fine let him. I still would like to know more about the ongoing federal probe he speaks of.
2 phrases I never thought would go together : "Federal probe" and "baseball cards"

[JP]

For those scoring at home, Jeff's the one who doesn't have anything consigned in REA's current auction.

You're confused as to which is the cause and which is the effect. I consign to Rob because he is morally superior to almost everyone in this hobby. He is not morally superior to most in this hobby because I consign to him...

[JP]

I still would like to know more about the ongoing federal probe he speaks of.

I'm sure his anonymous, unspecific "sources" are the same ones that help let us know the latest goings-on in the celebrity world. If a Federal Probe even exists, Rob is more than likely assisting in it, rather than being investigated.

[calvindog]

I still would like to know more about the ongoing federal probe he speaks of.


Who said REA is being probed by the feds? A guy who probably has left 50 messages on the FBI's voicemail about Rob Lifson? Yeah, you can take his claim of a federal probe to the bank.

2 phrases I never thought would go together : "Federal probe" and "baseball cards"


Have you also never heard of the phrases "Mastro Auctions" and "Doug Allen and Bill Mastro?"

[T206DK]

Yes I have heard of Doug Allen and Mastro. I'm pretty sure they had as many fans as REA has before their demise. I'm not trying to bash REA either. I wonder if any auction house is beyond reproach ? I realize REA has a huge following here and some people will defend them to the point of being brownie hounds, so I fully expect potshots to be takebn at me. I'm a skeptic though, and that article was very intersting, no matter who wrote it.

[calvindog]

Dave, I think you'll find that the only people who will take wanton potshots at you for daring to be critical of Rob are those who have a financial interest in REA's business doing well.

Being a skeptic is fine. The only point to be made here is that Peter Nash appears to have zero credibility on any issue pertaining to REA. I'm not saying that Nash has lied at all in his post; I'm just saying that his history with REA renders his allegations suspect even if true.

[Potomac Yank]

That sort of thing ... doesn't go on in the investment part of the hobby. :)

[t210scouts]

I'm not a big poster in any forum but reports like this do not surprise me. I've been on the receiving end of several journalism attacks and have found that each time the majority of the journalists do NOT do research. They simply interview individuals and take their word on the accuracy. Now to their defense they do have an editor who makes the final decision and they can make the story have a slant. However with this being a website I assume its an individual's side of the story.
Seeing questionable items in an auction is nothing new. As a collector of other items it is not all that uncommon to see items that have possible been stolen. The best defense against this is knowledge. Several times a year I see documents and letters on Ebay and other well know auctions houses that exhibit the same type of docketing and notations that I see regularly on documents found in the National Archives. If you visit these types of institutions you'll know how items are marked by the various archives and thus be armed with the knowledge to know if there is a possibility of the item being stolen.
I've never bid or won an auction from REA but I believe they performed the correct action by removing the item from the auction until the matter can be settled.
What I would be concerned about is how these items were stolen. Remember Sandy Berger a former national security advisor under President Clinton stole documents from the National Archives in College Park, MD. Knowledge is power and it your initial reaction is that an item is from a questionable origin then you are probably correct.

[JP]

I'm extremely cynical and critical of people within the hobby after being burnt on numerous occasions by nefarious characters, and have yet to recover any restitution. Yes, I'm consigned with REA. But my opinion of Rob and REA would be the same whether or not I had anything consigned. Nash has zero credibility, and considering the overwhelming evidence against him, I wouldn't be surprised to see REA do something in response to this article.

[J.McMurry]

As a side note, I only found this web site/article because it's listed on the FaceBook page of the Baseball Hall of Fame.

My comment was not really aimed at any particular Auction House, but to those jackasses who stole the items in question.

[JP]

There is a special place in hell for people who destroy or steal priceless historical pieces...I couldn't agree more.

[Rich Klein]

This is the webisite I was going to email you the link to. Don't need to do that now :)

Rich

[calvindog]

I just received an email from Rob; I wish I could post the pdf of his lawyer's response to Nash's article -- it's pretty funny reading. Suffice it to say that there is presently a warrant out for Nash's arrest in connection with his litigation with Rob -- which may explain why Nash has no concern about posting anything about Rob, no matter how false it may be. (I mean what could happen to him -- he'd get arrested?)

[slidekellyslide]

I just received an email from Rob; I wish I could post the pdf of his lawyer's response to Nash's article -- it's pretty funny reading. Suffice it to say that there is presently a warrant out for Nash's arrest in connection with his litigation with Rob -- which may explain why Nash has no concern about posting anything about Rob, no matter how false it may be. (I mean what could happen to him -- he'd get arrested?)

Aside from this guy being a dirtbag and throwing in irrelevant comments about Rob I'm guessing that doesn't change the fact that this item was stolen from the Hall of Fame. Rob has already done the right thing and removed the item...the Hall of Fame will get it back and hopefully the proper authorities find out who stole the photo. I've not seen the facebook posting on the Hall of Fame's site, but for those not familiar with facebook, anyone can post a link on the Hall of Fame's site...this "blog" link was probably posted by the Vanilla Ice wannabe.

[bigtrain]

There is a lengthy article on SI.com from December 9, 2009 regarding Mr. Nash, his financial troubles and litigation with Rob Lifson. Apparently, Rob obtained a $760,000 a judgment against him with a balance in excess of $250,000, has an attachment against all his income from the Boston sports bar he owns and a mortgage on his lakefront home in Cooperstown. There is a warrant for his arrest out of New Jersey related to the Lifson suit. Also, Nash signed a court order in which he admitted to fraud. I have a summer home near Cooperstown, just up the road from Mr. Nash's property, so I have heard a lot about Mr. Nash over the years. The property has been in and out of foreclosure and appears abandoned. There has been a car parked in the driveway that hasn't been moved in the five years I have been there.

(Sorry, I tried to post a link but having trouble with it. The article is titled: From Rapper to Baseball Collector, the Wild Tale of Peter Nash)

[FrankWakefield]

One good thing... the card may well make its way back to the National Baseball Museum.

A second possible good thing, they might try to do a better job of keeping up with their stuff. Obviously, the theft is wrong, that should be prosecuted. But the Hall needs better safeguards in place for their baseball relics.

A final thing that probably won't come to pass... what if the folks at Cooperstown decided to not mark up any more true treasures by putting marks like "PD" on the back with a red Sharpie. Unbelievable. Maybe they hole-punch cards like that and string 'em together with a cord to deter theft... yea, that's the ticket!

[painthistorian]

If there is anything that should be noted about this, REA has already pulled this item. The sponsor of that website is Mr. Nash. It happens to be a very interesting website anyway! He is subject to arrest from the legal battle that ensued between himself & REA and for that reason, this is the basis for the attempted vendetta. The actual warrant is documented and is in effect, I surmise Mr. Nash cannot be happy about this and is trying to hurt Robert any way he can.

[Orioles1954]

Not only that, he was "Prime Minister Pete Nice" in Third Bass. That should be worthy of arrest as well.

[Leon]

I am posting this on behalf or Rob L....(the 2nd page of the letter came out larger but it's all the same size as the first page, on regular paper).....regards




http://luckeycards.com/lifson1.jpg

http://luckeycards.com/lifson2.jpg


http://luckeycards.com/lifson3.jpg

[bigtrain]

How ironic that the 3rd Bass 's biggest hit was called "Pop Goes the Weasel".

[slidekellyslide]

Here is the email that Nash sent to REA:

------------------------------------------------------
From: info@haulsofshame.com [mailto:info@haulsofshame.com]
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 12:11 PM
To: info@robertedwardauctions.com
Subject: Inquiry RE:Lot 100 in Current Auction for News Article

It has come to our attention that Lot 100 in your current auction, the 1891
Jos. Hall cabinet card of Mickey Welch, appears to have originated from the
Collection of the National Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown , NY.

Sources indicate that the card was donated to the Hall of Fame in the 1950's
along with a group of similar cabinet cards by Jos. Hall.

Sources also indicate that the National Baseball Library has information
supporting claims that Lot 100 is likely the property of the Hall of Fame.

The back of the card also reveals the vandalization and alteration of
information and marks that also suggest that the card originated from the
Hall of Fame collection.

We are publishing a story about the card later today on the website
haulsofshame.com. We wanted to give you an opportunity to respond to these
claims and perhaps issue a statement addressing the situation.

Regards,

Peter Nash.

[oldjudge]

Hopefully, the FBI will be given the consignor's name and they can go back down the chain and possibly locate the original thief. Rob did the exact right thing in pulling the item from the auction. The next step should involve more than just returning the lot to the consignor. It would also be nice if institutions like the HOF made a public announcement when they discover that items have been stolen. That would make it a lot easier for collectors to recognize stolen items and alert the proper authorities.

[slidekellyslide]

Hopefully, the FBI will be given the consignor's name and they can go back down the chain and possibly locate the original thief. Rob did the exact right thing in pulling the item from the auction. The next step should involve more than just returning the lot to the consignor. It would also be nice if institutions like the HOF made a public announcement when they discover that items have been stolen. That would make it a lot easier for collectors to recognize stolen items and alert the proper authorities.

It would be in the best interest of the Hall of Fame to make a list on their website of all items that they are aware are missing. I'm going to guess that many of the items stolen they are probably unaware of until they show up for sale.

[Browncow75]

"Morally superior"? Now THERE are 2 words that are not often found together with the world of high end "investment" cards these days!

[danc]

"Hey yo Pete Nice rip the mic and go for yours". We are being a little harsh on the MC, music wise. 3rd Bass was great when it first came out and comparing it to that wankster Vanilla Ice is insulting to the brief career of a pioneering group who had two Gold Records and played Woodstock. They were a trio from my youth, perhaps outdated today in this Lil Wayne world. Putting that aside, this is all sad as this is a person who has obvious passion for what we all love and enjoy. It's also sad that the new vogue thing is to start a blog after being attacked, not for the sake of assisting collectors or helping them, but to go on the counter-attack with a genre. The autograph hobby has several of those. That is just plain whack.

DanC

[wonkaticket]

I guess Elroy Cohen isn't the only one who gets the gas face looks like Pete "Nice" Nash does as well...LOL

Kick em the grill Rob!

[calvindog]

That Mike O'Keeffe, he sure hates washed up, old, white rappers:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/high_school/2010/04/25/2010-04-25_house_of_cards.html

[Peter_Spaeth]

I wonder what items of questionable title and provenance Mr. Nash previously consigned to REA, how extensive this was, how the problems were discovered and when (before or after the auctions) and what happened as a result? Memorabilia is sure scary.

[Anthony S.]

Gasface wasn't their best song. It is a shame he's resorting to this crap now (ie, that website and general douchebaggery).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN6S1X0Of1I

[Sixtofan]

Some prophecy from pop goes the weasel?

Ya stole somebody's record then ya looped it, ya looped it
Ya boosted the record then ya looped it, ya looped it
Aiyyo, I came from Cali, and they hooped it, they hooped it
But now you're getting sued kinda stoopid

[T206DK]

well, after reading some of last nights posts I know a lot more about Peter Nash than I did before. His motives are questionable to say the least.

Isn't Vanilla Ice on this forum secretly ? :)

[J.McMurry]

Ahhh yess, I didnt know who the hell Pete Nash was until you mentioned the 3rd Bass bit. He was featured in a local paper article back in 2005. He supposedly was involved with Joe Jacksons house,which was moved to the West End and set up beside the new ballpark. The goal was to turn his house into a Shoeless Joe Museum and I believe Nash was to have a part in the running of the museum and possibly supply some of the memorabilia/displays.
well the museum opening ran about 3 years behind schedule and the people that I know who have been through it commented that there's not a whole lot there. Kinda makes sense now.

I remember the the article making him out to be some "super guru" baseball historian.

[ChiefBenderForever]

This is really some crazy stuff, was Rob advised to admit he was caught at the NYPL to downplay the incident due to Nash digging up concrete dirt. What a mess for both sides, sounds like more to come before this saga is over.

[howard38]

What are the details of the NYPL incident?

[JP]

I think the SI article outlines it...I think he was very young when it happened...and he was very forthright about it.

EDIT: actually the article I just read said that Nash accused Lifson of stealing from the NYPL in the 1970s, based on an old Times article. And Lifson is quoted as saying that is a categorically false accusation. So while Nash has been proven to be a liar and thief in and out of court, is there a single shred of evidence against Lifson?

[David R]

Mr. Nash certainly seems to be a bad apple with a motive to publish bad things about REA. That being said, it seems troubling to me that the big red "BOB" and the nature of the paper loss on the back of that very rare piece did not raise red flags with either SGC (who slabbed it) or REA (that put the piece in their auction). I am fairly new to collecting vintage so I was unfamiliar with the Hall of Fame's practice of placing a red "PD" on the back of pieces like this, but it seems fairly well known to some other collectors and I would think folks like SGC and REA would know such things? Is that too much to expect?

[Mark]

What are the details of the NYPL incident?

There is one story in which Rob is quoted saying that he tried to swipe a couple of photos from the New York Public Library when he was a juvenile. I think I will start a rumor that he once tried to steal a base in the New York Pennsylvania League. In either case, it happened a long time ago and seems to be a rare mistake in an otherwise very respectable life.

[lharri3600]

"THE LOVE OF MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL." ALSO THE LOVE OF MONEY WILL CAUSE PEOPLE TO DO SOME STRANGE THINGS.:confused: