Authentic Jackie Robinson sig? Plus odd tickets

[cubsguy1969]

Hi, everybody. I went to a sale last week at the estate of a Brooklyn Dodgers collector. The estate was in Brooklyn, of all places. :)
He had lots of neat stuff: old programs, ticket stubs, lots of autographs, pennants and on and on. A lot of it was overpriced. I think the heir just went online and found the highest prices he could find and priced things that way, regardless of condition. But I still picked up a few things, including this Jackie Robinson signature on an index card. The price wasn't bad, so I took a chance. I don't typically like buying autographs because there are so many fakes and I'm not an expert at all. But I rolled the dice on this one. What do you think?

Also, I was excited when I found these old ticket stubs in a box. It looked like stubs from a Daffy Dean no-hitter. But when i got home, I found that he did pitch a no-hitter that year, and it was against the Dodgers, but it was much later in the season. Definitely not Game No. 32. I should have figured it out at the sale when it was dated in September, but I was a bit overwhelmed by all the stuff, and it didn't register. Any chance it's Dean signature? I'm guessing not. I'd assume he'd know when he pitched his no-no.

Anyway let me know what you think of the sig and the tickets. It was a fun sale. Wish the prices would have been a little better. I think the guy had been collecting since he was a little boy. It was a collection in the truest sense. Thanks. Rob

[jb217676]

Here's a Jackie Robinson autograph to compare yours to.

[danc]

Really neat collection and great JR signature.

DanC

[perezfan]

Perfect authentic Jackie sig.... wonderful pickup.... congrats!

[mr2686]

Rob,
The Robinson looks real good to me too. Matches up with the one I have real well (got mine from Ron Gordon back in the late 80's).
As for the tickets, well no they are not from Sept 21st 1934. Assuming that only one ticket was issued on double headers, I calculate that this was from 7/14/34...also against the Cardinals but no no-hitter thrown.

[canjond]

Did ticket numbers run in reverse? i.e., ticket #32 meant the 32nd game LEFT instead of 32nd game PLAYED?

[jbsports33]

I just looked at a real Jackie Robinson signature on a baseball this week, you have a very nice example

Jimmy

[cubsguy1969]

Thanks for the input, guys. I had a solid feeling that it might be real, just from the other stuff in the apartment. Everything looked "right." I suspect he got many of the signatures himself, and probably many through the mail. A real old-school collector.

Interesting idea on the reverse order of the games, Jon. But I still don't think the math works. Someone either made a mistake somewhere along the way, or maybe a shady type pulled a fast one on this collector. Who knows?

[mr2686]

I'd say there was a mistake somewhere along the way. Who knows, maybe the guy actually went to this game AND the later games where Dean pitched the no hitter...and maybe he wrote the note of the back of the wrong stubbs. Or maybe he bought them second hand and didn't know any better. It's impossible to know without the original collector being available. This is why it's important for all of us collectors to try and document our collections. Where we got them and any history behind them if available. You got a great Robinson auto so you should be pretty darn jazzed about that and some ticket stubbs from the Cards/Dodgers during a championship year from one of the most famous Cardinal teams of all time. Sounds like a pretty good haul to me.

[steve B]

Counting home games herehttp://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BRO/1934-schedule-scores.shtml
I come up with July 15, which was a Dizzy dean shutout during a sunday doubleheader. So a mistake over which double header it was seems likely.

But there's the odd day off on Monday the 16th, followed by The cards again on the 17th and 18th.

Any chance at all that there was a rainout earlier in the season pushing game 32 to the 16th which got rained out and replayed on the 21st? It seems unlikely considering the way ties and rainouts were handled at the time, but might be worth a bit of checking into.

Really neat items either way.

[Scott Garner]

I'd say there was a mistake somewhere along the way. Who knows, maybe the guy actually went to this game AND the later games where Dean pitched the no hitter...and maybe he wrote the note of the back of the wrong stubbs. Or maybe he bought them second hand and didn't know any better. It's impossible to know without the original collector being available. This is why it's important for all of us collectors to try and document our collections. Where we got them and any history behind them if available. You got a great Robinson auto so you should be pretty darn jazzed about that and some ticket stubbs from the Cards/Dodgers during a championship year from one of the most famous Cardinal teams of all time. Sounds like a pretty good haul to me.

I have a tendency to go along with Mike's theory about the patron being confused when writing the inscription on the back of the tickets. No-hitter tickets are what I collect. The math definately won't work for these tickets to be from this game, but the inscription certainly appears to be with old ink. Great job on picking up the Jackie Robinson signed index card!

[Oldtix]

The evidence on the tickets isn't in your favor and I agree with all the rationale and research previously offered by posters. The thing that haunts me is that we (I include myself in this judgment) tend to apply modern standards to past practices.

September 1934...the depths of the Depression. The Dodgers drew only 434,000 fans that year (30,000 on Opening Day)...their lowest attendance since 1919 and almost 20% below the 1933 level. That's only 5,639 fans a game in a stadium with a 32,000 capacity. Just for added emphasis...their 1934 attendance was 60% below 1930! And leading up to this game...less than 1,000 Brooklynites attended the Pirates game on 9/18.

The club had to be in dire financial straits and they had to be pinching pennies wherever they could. Could a frugal Brooklyn general manager have encouraged the use of leftover general admission tickets rather than buying new ones? Could he have certainly mandated conservative purchasing of future game tickets from printers? Could a desperate ticket window clerk have sold old tickets and pocketed the cash (no audit trail)? Could a friendly ticket-taker have looked the other way and let the bearers into the game? Pretty tough times...

The club heavily promoted the upcoming Cardinals/Deans doubleheader. Apparently it worked. The New York Times reported attendance at the 9/21 game as 18,000...a huge number in the relative terms of that season. Perhaps they just ran out of general admission tickets!

If the writing is truly contemporary, it's possible that these really are the no-hitter tickets....but unfortunately, you can't prove it. Still...as 1934 first year manager Casey Stengel would later say: "You gotta believe!"

[Rob D.]

The evidence on the tickets isn't in your favor and I agree with all the rationale and research previously offered by posters. The thing that haunts me is that we (I include myself in this judgment) tend to apply modern standards to past practices.

September 1934...the depths of the Depression. The Dodgers drew only 434,000 fans that year (30,000 on Opening Day)...their lowest attendance since 1919 and almost 20% below the 1933 level. That's only 5,639 fans a game in a stadium with a 32,000 capacity. Just for added emphasis...their 1934 attendance was 60% below 1930! And leading up to this game...less than 1,000 Brooklynites attended the Pirates game on 9/18.

The club had to be in dire financial straits and they had to be pinching pennies wherever they could. Could a frugal Brooklyn general manager have encouraged the use of leftover general admission tickets rather than buying new ones? Could he have certainly mandated conservative purchasing of future game tickets from printers? Could a desperate ticket window clerk have sold old tickets and pocketed the cash (no audit trail)? Could a friendly ticket-taker have looked the other way and let the bearers into the game? Pretty tough times...

The club heavily promoted the upcoming Cardinals/Deans doubleheader. Apparently it worked. The New York Times reported attendance at the 9/21 game as 18,000...a huge number in the relative terms of that season. Perhaps they just ran out of general admission tickets!

If the writing is truly contemporary, it's possible that these really are the no-hitter tickets....but unfortunately, you can't prove it. Still...as 1934 first year manager Casey Stengel would later say: "You gotta believe!"

Interesting insights, Rick.

[Oldtix]

One further point....the ticket stub numbers are not sequential. Hmmm....

[Scott Garner]

The evidence on the tickets isn't in your favor and I agree with all the rationale and research previously offered by posters. The thing that haunts me is that we (I include myself in this judgment) tend to apply modern standards to past practices.

September 1934...the depths of the Depression. The Dodgers drew only 434,000 fans that year (30,000 on Opening Day)...their lowest attendance since 1919 and almost 20% below the 1933 level. That's only 5,639 fans a game in a stadium with a 32,000 capacity. Just for added emphasis...their 1934 attendance was 60% below 1930! And leading up to this game...less than 1,000 Brooklynites attended the Pirates game on 9/18.

The club had to be in dire financial straits and they had to be pinching pennies wherever they could. Could a frugal Brooklyn general manager have encouraged the use of leftover general admission tickets rather than buying new ones? Could he have certainly mandated conservative purchasing of future game tickets from printers? Could a desperate ticket window clerk have sold old tickets and pocketed the cash (no audit trail)? Could a friendly ticket-taker have looked the other way and let the bearers into the game? Pretty tough times...

The club heavily promoted the upcoming Cardinals/Deans doubleheader. Apparently it worked. The New York Times reported attendance at the 9/21 game as 18,000...a huge number in the relative terms of that season. Perhaps they just ran out of general admission tickets!

If the writing is truly contemporary, it's possible that these really are the no-hitter tickets....but unfortunately, you can't prove it. Still...as 1934 first year manager Casey Stengel would later say: "You gotta believe!"

Gosh Rick,
I love the way you thought through this one. In the context of the backdrop of The Great Depression any of your scenarios could be possible. Very good food for thought!

[mr2686]

It just dawned on me, even though it was written earlier that Sept 21st was highly advertised games as the Deans doubleheader, but that's when Paul Pitched the no hitter in the second game and Dizzy pitched a two hitter in the first...leading to Dizzy's famous quote: "If I'da known he was gonna throw one, I'da thrown one, too."
Like ol' Dizz used to say, "It ain't braggin' if you can back it up."