Photo help with 27 Yanks

[Lordstan]

Hello all,
I just picked up this lot of 18 snapshots.
The 70yo gentleman I bought them from told me his father told him they were taken in Spring Training 1927,
The first group include, what I think is a very rare snapshot of a team photo. While, I am not an expert on these, I have never seen a snap of a team before. Also the the pics below and to the left of the team supposedly show a young Lou Gehrig. It is hard to tell for sure, but does look a lot like him. To the further left are 4 pictures containing Herb Pennock, two in action. The last of the first group is labeled Chapman.
In the third picture upper left, is Tony Lazzeri.
The rest I am unsure of. This is where I would like some help from the board to identify some of the other players.
I will post close ups of faces if anyone would like.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/1927YanksST1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/1927YanksST2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/1927YanksST3.jpg

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Mark

Edit:Sorry the pictures came out a lot smaller than I thought. I will rescan them tomorrow a bit bigger

[David Atkatz]

The guy surrounded by girls--one holding his bat, the other his glove--is catcher Pat Collins.

There's a photo of the young guy standing with pitcher Wilcy Moore.

Bigger scans would help.

[PhilNap]

Top row: First 2 pics are Pennock;the third is ???;fourth clearly a team shot

2nd Row: First pic ??; second pic looks like pennock in front & ?? in back; 3rd pic ?? in front & not pennock in back (righty thrower); 4th pic ??

3rd Row: first pic david may be right on wilcy moore, second pic possible coach Charles O'leary, 3rd pic John Grabowski

4th row: first pic ??; second pic could be Meusel (too small to tell); 3rd pic ??

5th row: first pic Lazzeri; 2nd pic looks more like Bengough to me than Collins

6th Row: first pic ??; 2nd pic looks like Coach Arthur Fletcher

[David Atkatz]

I think you're right, Phil--it's Bengough.

[drc]

Love the snapshots.

[Ladder7]

Love the snapshots.

Agreed. Small and often blurred, badly lit, fingers in the lens, poorly developed etc. But no doubt, one-of-a-kind images.


The players expressions are far more (genuine) in these, than the professional shots.

Nice stuff Mark!

[Lordstan]

Thanks everyonewho posted so far. I do plan to do better scans tonight which should make id's easier.

Steve,
Very nice album. I'll have to look at AC Moore for that one.

Mark

I just posted a bunch of close ups of the snapshots, below. I numbered them all and will label them as they are identified.
Viewing them this way makes me wonder if they two in the first grouping below are Gehrig, but I think the third is closer.
Any help is appreciated.
Mark

[Lordstan]

Here are some close ups of the pics

1a Leo Durocher
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27YanksST001a.jpg

1b Team
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27YanksST001b.jpg

1c
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27YanksST001c.jpg

[Lordstan]

2a Pennock and Pipgras
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27YanksST002a.jpg

2b Pennock
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27YanksST002b.jpg

2c Pennock
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27YanksST002c.jpg

2d Pennock and Pipgras
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27YanksST002d.jpg

[Lordstan]

3a Mike Gazella
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27YanksST003a.jpg

3b Hank Johnson
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27YanksST003b.jpg

3c Tony Lazzeri
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27YanksST003c.jpg

[Lordstan]

4a Bob Meusel
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27YanksST004a.jpg

4b John Grabowski
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27YanksST004b.jpg

4c Bennie Bengough
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27YanksST004c.jpg

4d Art Fletcher
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27YanksST004d.jpg

[Lordstan]

5a
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27YanksST005a.jpg

5b Geo Pipgras
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27YanksST005b.jpg

5c Wilcy Moore
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27YanksST005c.jpg

5d Lazzeri
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27YanksST005d.jpg

[Kawika]

These are truly great photos, Mark. Love the ciggies.

[Lordstan]

David,

Thanks.
You know I didn't really notice the cigs until you mentioned them.
I guess it was no big thing back them.

Any opinion as to the players ID's? I am especially interested in everyone's opinion of the two that are questionably Gehrig. It matters in the price I paid for these as well as my collecting interest of Gehrig.

Best,
Mark

[David Atkatz]

Neither 1a nor 1c is Gehrig.
2a and 2d are Pennock and Pipgras.
4a is Pipgras.
4b is Grabowski.
4c is Bengough.
5c is Moore.

[bmarlowe1]

Mark -

Anything post-WWI is pretty much outside my area of expertise, but I can tell you with certainty that those 2 photos are not Gehrig. I don't know who they are (they are 2 different players).

Also - the Pennock ID's are correct, as is Lazzeri.

[Lordstan]

Thanks David and Mark.
I was afraid of that.
I kind knew once I blew them up close, but I was hoping to be wrong.

[PhilNap]

Pretty sure 3a is Mike Gazella

4d definitely Art Fletcher

with large pic still think 5b is O'leary

[PhilNap]

1a looks like it could be Durocher. Not sure if he was in camp in 1927 but I have seen a spring photo from '26 which included him.

[HRBAKER]

1a sure looks like Leo the Lip to me too!

[Lordstan]

Wow Phil!
That is outstanding.
I would've never thought of Durocher.

Thanks to all of you who have helped out, so far.
I'm disappointed they weren't Gehrig, but not really surprised.

If anyone else has any other ideas, please chime in.

Mark

[tinkereversandme]

Wow! I really like super young Durocher. As a person who enjoys baseball from the 1920's, thank you for sharing. Those are some wonderful images.

Larry

[PhilNap]

Mark,

No prob. As an amateur '27 Yankees historian I'm actually having fun with this. I will say 3b is really driving me crazy. I've seen that face and just can't place it.

Thanks for sharing the photos. Very cool stuff.

[Lordstan]

Well,
I did a little more research.
Leo Durocher played 2g for the Yanks in 1925.
He was then in the minors for the next 3yrs.
He then played 102gms for the Yanks in 1928.
It definitely makes sense that he would be in spring training 1927.

I also scanned a real high copy of the team photo.
You can clearly see most of the main players.
It is definitely Spring training as 42 players are in the picture.
Col Ruppert, Miller Huggins, and the mascot, Eddie Bennett, are also present.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/27Yanksteamhighres.jpg

Mark

Edit: The forum resized the scan. If anyone wants a close up scan let me know.

[Lordstan]

The man who sold me these pics told me he sold similar ones through a Heritage auction in 2006
Here is a link. You will likely have to sign in.
http://sports.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=705&Lot_No=19094&src=pr##
I am also posting the picture from the auction below:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/collage.jpg

Yes that is a signed pic of Babe Ruth in the center. Gehrig is in the bottom right. Babe is also in pics in the upper right and center left.

In the auction listing, the pic is much bigger and clearer.
Price $3107 (with BP)

Mark

[bmarlowe1]

Good call Phil - 1a is absolutely Durocher.

[Kawika]

I will say 3b is really driving me crazy. I've seen that face and just can't place it.

3b is driving me crazy, too. Hank Johnson was at spring training with the Yanks in 1927 per NYT archives and this team photo but was not on regular season roster. His '33 Goudey suggests the high cheekbones of 3b but I can't find a decent photo that would corroborate him.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/bbbofsfirstclass/miscellanybaseball/NYY%20St%20Pete%20FL%201927.jpg

[Lordstan]

I just realized I forgot to post the letter the original owner sent me as provenance.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/1927Yanksletter001.jpg

[mr2686]

Here's a picture I found of Hank Johnson. Sure looks like him to me. Would be easier if he didn't have his hat on in this picture so that we could see his hairline.

[Lordstan]

Mike,

Great work.
I am almost 100% convinced it is Johnson.
You can't see the ears perfectly. I does appear, though, that they sure do match up well from what I can see.

Thanks.
Mark

[Lordstan]

Thanks to all who have helped out so far.
I am now down to 2 pics I am not sure of. They are 1c and 5a.
Anyone got any ideas?

[Lordstan]

Oh and I forgot 1 other.
Another board member is confident that 5d is Lazzeri.
Now he did bat with his hands choked up, but the bat is in the way.
I scanned a close up of the PLayer and found a pic of Lazzeri showing his right ear.
Do they match? Any opinions?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/1927Yankslazzeri.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/Lazzeri_ear.png

Thanks,
Mark

[bmarlowe1]

I would need a 600dpi scan of 5d (just the head is enough). Then - if the focus of the original photo was sharp enough, I might be able to tell you.

And, if I could tell you it's Lazzeri, the marketability of the photo as Lazzeri would be an intersting question.

[Lordstan]

Mark,

I did scan it at a high resolution and the picture isn't sharp enough to tell for sure. The ear folds all meld together so you either can't tell with certainty or it isn't him.

Thanks for the offer.
Mark

BTW, I did wind up selling many of these pics as only the team photo contained Gehrig, who is my main collecting focus. It was because of the promise of his presence that I bought the pics in the first place. Selling was not my initial intention, nor reason for posting asking for help. I did wind up selling the batting photo with the assumption it was not Lazzeri.
Thanks to all who helped.

I still don't know who 1c and 5a are.