Absolutely deplorable actions by a fellow forum member!

[Chicago206]

Just wanted to make aware to all a situation which is almost stranger than fiction.

A few days ago, on our BST, a listing for an Uzit T206 in an SGC 10 was offered for $1,000 by fellow member Blunder. I responded as soon as I saw the post, both in the thread as well as by email.

After a few days of discussions via email, I agreed to buy the card for $1300 from Jamie. He told me that if I was willing to commit, and wait "2 weeks", that we had a deal.

I responded that I had no problem waiting as long as I was guaranteed the card....he did so, and we had a "deal".

Today, it was discovered that Jamie does not even own the card....in fact, its in a live auction with Heritage currently with 19 days left!

In other words, Jamie was looking for an "auction partner" but didnt want to disclose this fact. Instead, he wanted to "pre-sell" a card he did not own, under the false pretense that he had already bought the card and was simply waiting for delivery.

When I sent my last email to Jamie (after discovering this scam), he responded with wanting to know what the big deal was since I was willing to wait the 2 weeks anyway. The "big deal" Jamie, is that we agreed to my financial commitment of $1300 under the terms that I was GUARANTEED to have the card at the end of 2 weeks. Not that I MIGHT get the card in 2 weeks. Furthermore, you lied to me basically via ommission. Very deceptive practice Jamie. You wanted to use me as an auction partner without me knowing. What happens at the end of the auction and you were not high bidder? Then you email me with some bullshit on why I wont be getting the card you promised me even though I tied up my money for you?

[Rob D.]

Here's a link to the thread for those interested in a blow-by-blow account:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=122287

[PWeso81]

Sounds to me like it is your card for $1300 regardless of what he ends up paying for it. He is gambling...as long he delivers than no harm. Time will tell what type of man he is. His reputation is officially on the line.

[Chicago206]

Here's a link to the thread for those interested in a blow-by-blow account:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=122287



I can also publicly post the entire transcript of emails that Jamie and I have had if anyone is interested. This kind of activity is completely inexcusable!!!

[JP]

Here's what he wrote to me when I asked....

"I'm looking for someone that wants to buy this card because I have to buy it along with another card for sale which is the one I want. They are being sold as a pair. And I want to find someone interested in the uzit jennings so I only end up with the card I want and not paying for both. The high guy right now is at 1300. I will send picks if your still interested.
Jamie "

I'm not sure that "for sale" is really how you would categorize an auction item that you aren't guaranteed to win....

[Chicago206]

Sounds to me like it is your card for $1300 regardless of what he ends up paying for it. He is gambling...as long he delivers than no harm. Time will tell what type of man he is. His reputation is officially on the line.



With one tiny problem.....what if he didnt even win the auction? Then I tied up my cash on the premise that if I waited 2 weeks, the card would be delivered to me. If he gets outbid, then what? Thats why FULL DISCLOSURE is absolutely needed in this situation!

[calvindog]

Somehow I don't think that a guy who would do something as pathetic and petty as this gives a rat's ass what his reputation is on an internet chat board.

[PWeso81]

With one tiny problem.....what if he didnt even win the auction? Then I tied up my cash on the premise that if I waited 2 weeks, the card would be delivered to me. If he gets outbid, then what? Thats why FULL DISCLOSURE is absolutely needed in this situation!

That's just it. He HAS to win! Not a smart way to do business in my opinion. If you get the card...great. If you don't...awful. No matter what, stay away from him in the future.

[Peter_Spaeth]

He is seeing wheretheyaint.com and raising them one.

[calvindog]

Exactly. Regardless of whether he wins the auction, his actions are dishonest and probably illegal. Taking money for a card of which he doesn't own?

[yawie99]

That listing was sketchy from the outset, but any thread that spawns "UZIT or lose it" can't be all bad.

[Leon]

Just a quick note to say the other mods and I are in discussion about this. We would like to see if Jamie wants to respond in this thread to these accusations? If he does and he convinces us that everything is just fine, then so be it. If he does nothing then we will make the same call as if he is just outright guilty of what is being said. So, here is your chance if you would like to explain, Jamie? best regards

[Chicago206]

Exactly. Regardless of whether he wins the auction, his actions are dishonest and probably illegal. Taking money for a card of which he doesn't own?



Let me clarify here that Jamie DID tell me to wait 2 weeks to make payment on the card. He told me to "wait until he gets it". However, he stated nowhere in our dozen+ emails that the card was in an auction. He DID however "guarantee" that I would own the Uzit in 2 weeks time, leading me to believe that he was either waiting for delivery, or in negotiations on a private deal. I just fail to understand how one can guarantee someone else a card when its currently in a major auction!

[Chicago206]

Just a quick note to say the other mods and I are in discussion about this. We would like to see if Jamie wants to respond in this thread to these accusations? If he does and he convinces us that everything is just fine, then so be it. If he does nothing then we will make the same call as if he is just outright guilty of what is being said. So, here is your chance if you would like to explain, Jamie? best regards




Leon, I will happily supply you with a complete, unedited list of our emails back and forth if that helps in making your decision. If fact, I have no problem in displaying them in this thread publicly so that Jamie may see they are legit. Just let me know if you need them.

[Scott L.]

I don't understand why Jamie would go this route as opposed to just trying to find a partner for the auction. Judging by the flurry of posts after his listing he would have had his choice of partners. Doesn't make any sense.

[Leon]

Let me clarify here that Jamie DID tell me to wait 2 weeks to make payment on the card. He told me to "wait until he gets it". However, he stated nowhere in our dozen+ emails that the card was in an auction. He DID however "guarantee" that I would own the Uzit in 2 weeks time, leading me to believe that he was either waiting for delivery, or in negotiations on a private deal. I just fail to understand how one can guarantee someone else a card when its currently in a major auction!

Actually it's kind of a ballsy :) move. Unfortunately it's as was already said, if it is as it looks, it's at least unethical and at worst criminal. The lawyers would know better than me. I "guess" if he came through with the goods, it might not be criminal, as he fullfilled his part of the contract? .....

[chris]

This is ridiculous. I have been looking for a Uzit for awhile and was excited to his post. I emailed him requesting a scan. He said he would send one later that night, which he never did and he raised his asking price $200. I told him I was still interested but have yet to get a further response. Now I see why...:mad:

[B O'Brien]

Take it easy Jamie.
Bob

[Leon]

Leon, I will happily supply you with a complete, unedited list of our emails back and forth if that helps in making your decision. If fact, I have no problem in displaying them in this thread publicly so that Jamie may see they are legit. Just let me know if you need them.

While private emails aren't generally allowed on the board I think that in very rare cases we might let one or two go, if need be. I don't think it's needed in this case, at least yet. If we don't hear from Jamie by tomorrow then the other mods and I will take some form of action, with respect to him being on the board. regards

[Rob D.]

If we don't hear from Jamie by tomorrow then the other mods and I will take some form of action, with respect to him being on the board. regards

To be fair to Jamie, I heard he has "been busy as hell with quarter end for work," so you might not hear from him right away.

[vintagetoppsguy]

If the card was originally offered at $1000, just curious why you agreed upon $1300? What was his justification in raising the price $300? That should have told you about his character right there.

[PWeso81]

So...money hasn't been exchanged yet, correct? What if the card is delivered as promised? I agree with everyone that this is not the right way to do things. I do not know who the person in question is...but he is being exposed and that is good for the rest of us. I would like to see the finish.

[Chicago206]

If the card was originally offered at $1000, just curious why you agreed upon $1300? What was his justification in raising the price $300? That should have told you about his character right there.


I actually offered the extra $300 to ensure my chances of getting the card. I think $1300 is a very fair price to pay for an Uzit in a grade of 1, and was happy to offer that amount.

[JP]

http://sports.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=717&Lot_No=81043

I get that he wants the Seymour for his backs set that he has displayed before, but what happens if the Jennings and Seymour sell for $4000? Is he charging $1300 for the Jennings and paying $2700 on his own for the Seymour? Sounds like a serious gamble. I wouldve given the benefit of the doubt if he was upfront about it, but he clearly withheld information to me and chicagoT206, as well as others I'd assume...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Anyone want to buy a T206 Wagner from me in a month? :D:D

[cbcbcb]

If everything is upfront and transparent I have no problem with what he did. It is just short selling, but with baseball cards. No matter what, he has to come up with that card, so all the risk is on him.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I actually offered the extra $300 to ensure my chances of getting the card. I think $1300 is a very fair price to pay for an Uzit in a grade of 1, and was happy to offer that amount.

That doesn't make sense. What do you mean "ensure my chances of getting the card?" Was the card for sale to the highest offer or was the card for sale for $1000? I just don't understand why you would offer an extra $300 if he already had an asking price. I have never offered a seller more than their asking price to "ensure I get the card." If the card is for sale then that is the price. Something smells fishy!

[Chicago206]

http://sports.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=717&Lot_No=81043

I get that he wants the Seymour for his backs set that he has displayed before, but what happens if the Jennings and Seymour sell for $4000? Is he charging $1300 for the Jennings and paying $2700 on his own for the Seymour? Sounds like a serious gamble. I wouldve given the benefit of the doubt if he was upfront about it, but he clearly withheld information to me and chicagoT206, as well as others I'd assume...


Thats just the point JP. Nowhere in all of our many emails does he say hes bidding on anything. How in the world can he sell me a card, AND guarantee our deal if its in auction. If he was negotiating with a private seller, and needed backing on the $1300, but was SURE to get the cards, im fine with that, and I dont mind waiting the 2 weeks. But to tell me im locked in on the Uzit, and that I will get it in 2 weeks is pure deception. He wants me to lock down my financial commitment IN CASE he happens to win an auction 19 days from now? Without telling me such?? Get real Jamie!

[JP]

If everything is upfront and transparent I have no problem with what he did. It is just short selling, but with baseball cards. No matter what, he has to come up with that card, so all the risk is on him.

Sort of...except he hid that he didn't own the card. And what recourse is there if he doesn't win? It looks like he put himself in a position that he could ONLY benefit from and had a good chance of failing for the other party.

[Chicago206]

That doesn't make sense. What do you mean "ensure my chances of getting the card?" Was the card for sale to the highest offer or was the card for sale for $1000? I just don't understand why you would offer an extra $300 if he already had an asking price. I have never offered a seller more than their asking price to "ensure I get the card." If the card is for sale then that is the price. Something smells fishy!


Have you ever been house shopping before? My wife and I looked at a house about 4 years ago that we loved. Asking price was $194,500. We made our offer at full asking price that same weekend through our real estate agent. We found out that Monday that we lost the bid to another couple who offered $199,000 the same day. Same concept here. If a person offers an item for sale that you know is a popular item for a fairly low price, theres no harm in making an offer of above that asking price to help ensure you get the item. Whats so "fishy" about that?

[Chicago206]

Sort of...except he hid that he didn't own the card. And what recourse is there if he doesn't win? It looks like he put himself in a position that he could ONLY benefit from and had a good chance of failing for the other party.


This is exactly correct. I could "sell" any card in that auction on the BST, and then place a bid of 20% less than what I agreed to sell it to you for. And if I dont win the auction, I just come back to you and say "oooops, sorry". That is the very definition of a SCAM!

[JP]

Sounds like most people get that what Jamie did was wrong...but before he is completely ostracized, like Leon said, we should let him explain himself.

[Chicago206]

Sounds like most people get that what Jamie did was wrong...but before he is completely ostracized, like Leon said, we should let him explain himself.



He has not been too busy to email me exactly 12 times on this subject since 11:41am just today. He has also not been too busy to edit his BST post today, as well as respond that a "deal" had been made on the card. My guess is that he just needs to figure out a good enough excuse for his actions before he shows up here.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Have you ever been house shopping before? My wife and I looked at a house about 4 years ago that we loved. Asking price was $194,500. We made our offer at full asking price that same weekend through our real estate agent. We found out that Monday that we lost the bid to another couple who offered $199,000 the same day. Same concept here. If a person offers an item for sale that you know is a popular item for a fairly low price, theres no harm in making an offer of above that asking price to help ensure you get the item. Whats so "fishy" about that?

This is a card, not a house. It was for sell at a certain price. Yes, there could be harm in making an offer of above the asking price. Let's say there was another individual before you that wanted the card at the $1000 asking price and the two agreed to a deal. Then you come along and offer $300 more. The seller already sounds a bit shady, so sure he is going to take the extra $300 after he already had a deal. I am not saying that happened, but I can't think of too many reasons why somebody would offer more than the seller's asking price.

Surely you asked him in your initial email if the card was still for sale? If he said no and you offered $300 more to take it away from another buyer, then it sounds like you got what you deserved. I hope that is not the case. If he said yes that it was still for sale, then I just don't see why you would offer $300 more.

Am I the only one that finds it odd that someone would offer a seller 30% more than their asking price on a baseball card? After all, it was a fixed price ($1000) post, not a "best offer" post.

[Chicago206]

This is a card, not a house. It was for sell at a certain price. Yes, there could be harm in making an offer of above the asking price. Let's say there was another individual before you that wanted the card at the $1000 asking price and the two agreed to a deal. Then you come along and offer $300 more. The seller already sounds a bit shady, so sure he is going to take the extra $300 after he already had a deal. I am not saying that happened, but I can't think of too many reasons why somebody would offer more than the seller's asking price.

Surely you asked him in your initial email if the card was still for sale? If he said no and you offered $300 more to take it away from another buyer, then it sounds like you got what you deserved. I hope that is not the case. If he said yes that it was still for sale, then I just don't see why you would offer $300 more.

Am I the only one that finds it odd that someone would offer a seller 30% more than their asking price on a baseball card? After all, it was a fixed price ($1000) post, not a "best offer" post.



Yes, I did ask if the card was still available, and he said it was. It was at that point that I offered what I was comfortable in paying, the $1300. He did NOT have any deal in place (at least he didnt tell me he did), so I didnt really "trump" anyone out of the card. I just tried to make his decision a bit easier.:D Is it against any forum rules to overpay for a baseball card? Are you my financial advisor who determines what is in my best interests regarding my financial health? And lastly, was it you or was it me who went to work for the past 11 years and earned the money in which I was willing to spend? In these regards, I dont see how my offer was "unfair" in any way, shape or form. Does anyone else?

[Ease]

Am I the only one that finds it odd that someone would offer a seller 30% more than their asking price on a baseball card? After all, it was a fixed price ($1000) post, not a "best offer" post.

I agree. I'd like to hear what Jamie has to say first...2 sides to every story. Let the guy at least try to explain himself before hanging him...

[PWeso81]

This is a card, not a house. It was for sell at a certain price. Yes, there could be harm in making an offer of above the asking price. Let's say there was another individual before you that wanted the card at the $1000 asking price and the two agreed to a deal. Then you come along and offer $300 more. The seller already sounds a bit shady, so sure he is going to take the extra $300 after he already had a deal. I am not saying that happened, but I can't think of too many reasons why somebody would offer more than the seller's asking price.

Surely you asked him in your initial email if the card was still for sale? If he said no and you offered $300 more to take it away from another buyer, then it sounds like you got what you deserved. I hope that is not the case. If he said yes that it was still for sale, then I just don't see why you would offer $300 more.

Am I the only one that finds it odd that someone would offer a seller 30% more than their asking price on a baseball card? After all, it was a fixed price ($1000) post, not a "best offer" post.

Also, This is the Internet. A bunch of invisable dealers. Love it or hate it...without the web, I wouldn't have the cards I own. The local dealer where I live does not sell pre-war cards. The web is the only way to obtain what I (e'hem) need. I have not been stung yet...but won't be surprised when it happens. Our only protection from fraud (or shady deals) is word of mouth. I commend the thread starter. Though I probably would have waited until the goods were NOT delivered before posting.

[Rob D.]

Love the avatar, Eric.

[SethY]

Sounds to me like Blunder made a blunder! :) in all seriousness, I would not have done something like this. Seems risky an unethical, and like some would say possibly criminal.

[PWeso81]

Sounds to me like Blunder made a blunder! :) in all seriousness, I would not have done something like this. Seems risky an unethical, and like some would say possibly criminal.

I would not use "criminal" until $ is/was exchanged. It sounds like the seller asked for 2 weeks to deliver. The buyer agreed...so time will tell.

[JP]

Chicago, did he agree with the $1300 you offered, or is the accepted offer some imaginary person that won't be able to sue when he doesn't win?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Yes, I did ask if the card was still available, and he said it was. It was at that point that I offered what I was comfortable in paying, the $1300. He did NOT have any deal in place (at least he didnt tell me he did), so I didnt really "trump" anyone out of the card. I just tried to make his decision a bit easier.:D Is it against any forum rules to overpay for a baseball card? Are you my financial advisor who determines what is in my best interests regarding my financial health? And lastly, was it you or was it me who went to work for the past 11 years and earned the money in which I was willing to spend? In these regards, I dont see how my offer was "unfair" in any way, shape or form. Does anyone else?

No, I am not your financial adviser, but let me give you a little financial advice anyway. When somebody has something for sale that you are wanting to buy and they tell you their asking price rather than saying, "make me an offer," then there is no need to offer any additional money.

If you would have seen this card in a dealer's showcase at a show with $1000 price tag, would you ask him, "Will you take $1300 for it? " No. That's stupid. There was no need to offer any additional amount of money of you were indeed the first buyer.

You're starting to contradict yourself, so you should really be careful. In your first post you said...

After a few days of discussions via email, I agreed to buy the card for $1300 from Jamie. He told me that if I was willing to commit, and wait "2 weeks", that we had a deal.

But above you said...

Yes, I did ask if the card was still available, and he said it was. It was at that point that I offered what I was comfortable in paying, the $1300. He did NOT have any deal in place (at least he didnt tell me he did), so I didnt really "trump" anyone out of the card. I just tried to make his decision a bit easier.

So which is it? Did you make him the offer at the point you asked him if it were still for sale, or did you make him the offer after a few days of discussions?

It is only my opinion (and if I am wrong I will apologize), but I think the card was already sold to another buyer and you offered $300 more than the asking price to (in your own words) “ensure your chances of getting the card.” If that is the case, that is pretty deplorable in itself. If that is not the case, then you will receive an apology.

I'll reserve any more posts until I hear from the other party.

[Chicago206]

Chicago, did he agree with the $1300 you offered, or is the accepted offer some imaginary person that won't be able to sue when he doesn't win?



He told me the card was mine for $1300 if I was willing to wait 2 weeks. I said that I didnt mind waiting 2 weeks as long as the card was guaranteed to be mine at that time. He said it would be mine and then accepted my offer of $1300. An hour or 2 later is when I discovered the scam on the BST thread (I was watching it to see if he would publicly state the card was no longer available).

[JP]

He told me the card was mine for $1300 if I was willing to wait 2 weeks. I said that I didnt mind waiting 2 weeks as long as the card was guaranteed to be mine at that time. He said it would be mine and then accepted my offer of $1300. An hour or 2 later is when I discovered the scam on the BST thread (I was watching it to see if he would publicly state the card was no longer available).

Right....but in the B/S/T, Jamie changed his post to read "No longer looking for a buyer on the card.. thanks for your interest." Is that because you have an agreement with him still in place, or is it someone else, or is it no one else?

[calvindog]

I would not use "criminal" until $ is/was exchanged. It sounds like the seller asked for 2 weeks to deliver. The buyer agreed...so time will tell.

Thanks for the legal advice.

[Chicago206]

No, I am not your financial adviser, but let me give you a little financial advice anyway. When somebody has something for sale that you are wanting to buy and they tell you their asking price rather than saying, "make me an offer," then there is no need to offer any additional money.

If you would have seen this card in a dealer's showcase at a show with $1000 price tag, would you ask him, "Will you take $1300 for it? " No. That's stupid. There was no need to offer any additional amount of money of you were indeed the first buyer.

You're starting to contradict yourself, so you should really be careful. In your first post you said...



But above you said...



So which is it? Did you make him the offer at the point you asked him if it were still for sale, or did you make him the offer after a few days of discussions?

It is only my opinion (and if I am wrong I will apologize), but I think the card was already sold to another buyer and you offered $300 more than the asking price to (in your own words) “ensure your chances of getting the card.” If that is the case, that is pretty deplorable in itself. If that is not the case, then you will receive an apology.

I'll reserve any more posts until I hear from the other party.





Here is the exact timeline for the emails.

3/31---I send email requesting scans...no response.
4/2 ----I send 2nd request for scans
4/2---I get 1st response...tells me he is busy, card is still available and will talk to me later
4/2---I tell seller i'll pay $1300 for the card
4/3---Seller tells me he has much interest in the card and will forward scans to me
4/3---I tell seller my offer of $1300 is good till Monday as there is another card im thinking of buying
4/3---Seller tells me the card is mine at $1300.


Now you can turn this anyway you want, but these are the facts. By my count, thats 4 days worth of "negotiations". My initial request was simply for scans. I made my offer on day 3 of the negotiations, and to the best of my knowlege, the card was not yet "sold". Had it been sold, I seriously doubt that we would have gone through the rest of this "dance". You can be upset with me because my pockets may be a bit deeper than yours, I cant control that. Im willing to overpay for cards that I really want, and theres nothing unethical about that. But I can understand why you may be pissed about that, especially if you would like to buy a card at the lowest price possible. I dont concern myself too much on price, that extra $300 means very little to me....thats basically a sour 20 minute run at the blackjack table.

[slidekellyslide]

Thanks for the legal advice.

You should use that in court Jeff. :D

[PWeso81]

When is the due date? I can't believe a pending deal is getting this much attention.

I am looking for a Walter Johnson portrait (3,4 or 5). I will take it today, tomorrow or this May...as long as I get it.

Please PM me.

Thanks

Pat

[Chicago206]

Right....but in the B/S/T, Jamie changed his post to read "No longer looking for a buyer on the card.. thanks for your interest." Is that because you have an agreement with him still in place, or is it someone else, or is it no one else?



He changed that post just minutes before I became aware of what was really going on. I immediately emailed him stating my anger over what he was trying so deceptively to do, and ended our agreement. I wouldnt buy 25 cents worth of popcorn from him if I was starving to death.

[JP]

I would not use "criminal" until $ is/was exchanged. It sounds like the seller asked for 2 weeks to deliver. The buyer agreed...so time will tell.

Sweet!!! So attempting to commit a crime is no longer a crime? At least that should solve our prison overpopulation problem...

Anybody want to buy one of the "It ain't fraud til you're caught!" t-shirts I'm having printed up?

[Chicago206]

When is the due date? I can't believe a pending deal is getting this much attention.

I am looking for a Walter Johnson portrait (3,4 or 5). I will take it today, tomorrow or this May...as long as I get it.

Please PM me.

Thanks

Pat



Somehow you are missing whats really going on here. You say you want a Johnson in a 3, right? Ok. Lets say I PM you saying i'll sell you one for $1,000, but you have to wait 2 weeks before I can deliver it. You say "deal". Then I go on an auction site and bid on a PSA 3 Johnson with a max bid of $700. If I win it, I just pocketed an easy $300. If I DONT win it, I email you saying what? "Sorry, but I changed my mind"? Do you now see how this is unethical? I get a free chance at making a profit from you while you tie up your $1,000 and expect to own a Johnson in a 3? In those 2 weeks that you are waiting, you notice a Johnson in a 3 for sale at $750, but you dont buy it cuz you already made a deal with me, right? But you dont even know that you might not even get your $1,000 Johnson. What kind of deal is that???

[PWeso81]

I don't understand.

For some reason the buyer was OK with the 2 week lag. It doesn't take me 2 weeks to put a card into an envelope.

Not attacking...but red flags were thrown from the beginning of this deal.

As far as I am concerened...the seller has 2 weeks to produce. If that does not happpen...then we can continue with the (much desevered) bashing.

[JP]

Blunder is online, so maybe we'll get an explanation soon...

[PWeso81]

Somehow you are missing whats really going on here. You say you want a Johnson in a 3, right? Ok. Lets say I PM you saying i'll sell you one for $1,000, but you have to wait 2 weeks before I can deliver it. You say "deal". Then I go on an auction site and bid on a PSA 3 Johnson with a max bid of $700. If I win it, I just pocketed an easy $300. If I DONT win it, I email you saying what? "Sorry, but I changed my mind"? Do you now see how this is unethical? I get a free chance at making a profit from you while you tie up your $1,000 and expect to own a Johnson in a 3? In those 2 weeks that you are waiting, you notice a Johnson in a 3 for sale at $750, but you dont buy it cuz you already made a deal with me, right? But you dont even know that you might not even get your $1,000 Johnson. What kind of deal is that???


I don't say deal.

[dennis]

i'm with scott on the question of why didn't jamie just ask for a buying partner for the lot?? and not make himself look like a scammer. he posts on here a lot,so he should be smart enough to know he is going to be criticized immensely for this type of (scam)

[Chicago206]

I don't understand.

For some reason the buyer was OK with the 2 week lag. It doesn't take me 2 weeks to put a card into an envelope.

Not attacking...but red flags were thrown from the beginning of this deal.

As far as I am concerened...the seller has 2 weeks to produce. If that does not happpen...then we can continue with the (much desevered) bashing.


Im absolutely fine with that 2 week lag, as long as Im guaranteed to get that card after those 2 weeks are up. For example, lets say the seller had a deal in place with another forum member who happened to be on vacation. The deal was for 2 cards for $2600, but the guy wanted just to keep one. Now he needs to find a financial backer to buy the other one. So he lists on the BST that he has it for sale. Now he says to me that it will be 2 weeks till HE gets the card. Im fine with that....its a done deal. But dont tell me im getting the card in 2 weeks when its in an auction! There is no way he can guarantee that i'll be getting that card! Have you ever wanted to win an auction lot, but were outbid? Yeah, me too.:rolleyes:

[JP]

Any way you slice it, it was going to be a hell of a lot more than 2 weeks. Auction closes in almost 20 days, then the time to get the funds to Heritage, and then get the items delivered....definitely at least the beginning of May.

[cbcbcb]

Somehow you are missing whats really going on here. You say you want a Johnson in a 3, right? Ok. Lets say I PM you saying i'll sell you one for $1,000, but you have to wait 2 weeks before I can deliver it. You say "deal". Then I go on an auction site and bid on a PSA 3 Johnson with a max bid of $700. If I win it, I just pocketed an easy $300. If I DONT win it, I email you saying what? "Sorry, but I changed my mind"? Do you now see how this is unethical? I get a free chance at making a profit from you while you tie up your $1,000 and expect to own a Johnson in a 3? In those 2 weeks that you are waiting, you notice a Johnson in a 3 for sale at $750, but you dont buy it cuz you already made a deal with me, right? But you dont even know that you might not even get your $1,000 Johnson. What kind of deal is that???

That is a risk someone has to be willing to take by agreeing to give the seller two weeks to sell. I don't think that is an agreement that would be unethical or wrong, but the buyer would have to be assured in some other manner of the seller's intentions to sell. I would say that in a perfect world, if such a deal were to happen, the inability of the seller to sell the card after two weeks would result in the seller paying an agreed some of damages for breach of contract. The buyer would take on a calculated risk of agreeing to buy a card at some future date, with the insurance that if the seller fails to come through, the buyer will receive something in return. However, on the internet, such an agreement would never happen and it would be too burdensome to legally enforce.

[Blunder19]

I have read only the first 1.5 pages of this thread. I had no idea this was going on(this thread) I am out now and will respond when I am home after reading this through. Anyone who has dealt with me can vouche for my ethics...just ask jerry T after I came through with our BL460 deal. Chicago I don't know what you have told these people. I was not looking to do one criminal thing. I wanted to find an auction partner. Any one who I responded to past a "hello" which was only 2 people... I told I did not own the card... I agreed on a price with chicago and plan on bying the card. A bit of a gamble because I could get stuck paying for more then I wanted for the seymour. I in no way was going to take money from him. And I am outraged that this board feels that's who I am... I have been part of this board for years...

If I advertised the card on the bst in a method not allowed then I am sorry for that.

Chicago you are insane for trying to make me out to be a criminal....

I will respond more when I have a chance to finish reading this thread.

Jamie

[AndyG09]

Interesting to see that Blunder is looking for a partner in the "REA Partnering" thread. Anybody interested?

[PWeso81]

Im absolutely fine with that 2 week lag, as long as Im guaranteed to get that card after those 2 weeks are up. For example, lets say the seller had a deal in place with another forum member who happened to be on vacation. The deal was for 2 cards for $2600, but the guy wanted just to keep one. Now he needs to find a financial backer to buy the other one. So he lists on the BST that he has it for sale. Now he says to me that it will be 2 weeks till HE gets the card. Im fine with that....its a done deal. But dont tell me im getting the card in 2 weeks when its in an auction! There is no way he can guarantee that i'll be getting that card! Have you ever wanted to win an auction lot, but were outbid? Yeah, me too.:rolleyes:

Wow, you are really over thinking. I thought I was bad. Every time my wife pulls her car into the drive way I think...we could sell that for a nice Plank. I mean, after all...she is a school teacher and can take the school bus to work.

Anyway, It is obvious that you really want the card (ie...2 week waiting...$300 extra for insurance)...I can't argue your passion. I hope you get it.

[Chicago206]

I have read only the first 1.5 pages of this thread. I had no idea this was going on(this thread) I am out now and will respond when I am home after reading this through. Anyone who has dealt with me can vouche for my ethics...just ask jerry T after I came through with our BL460 deal. Chicago I don't know what you have told these people. I was not looking to do one criminal thing. I wanted to find an auction partner. Any one who I responded to past a "hello" which was only 2 people... I told I did not own the card... I agreed on a price with chicago and plan on bying the card. A bit of a gamble because I could get stuck paying for more then I wanted for the seymour. I in no way was going to take money from him. And I am outraged that this board feels that's who I am... I have been part of this board for years...

If I advertised the card on the bst in a method not allowed then I am sorry for that.

Chicago you are insane for trying to make me out to be a criminal....

I will respond more when I have a chance to finish reading this thread.

Jamie


And when you have time, a couple of other questions Jamie. First, until you were "exposed" in your BST thread, you NEVER once mentioned that the card was in a current auction....why not?
Second, you guaranteed I would get the card in 2 weeks if I made a financial commitment to you for the $1300. How do you guarantee me a card thats currently in an auction?
Third, Had you not won the auction in "2 weeks", what would you have told me at that point after you had me tie up my money for a card you guaranteed would be mine?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Here is the exact timeline for the emails.

3/31---I send email requesting scans...no response.
4/2 ----I send 2nd request for scans
4/2---I get 1st response...tells me he is busy, card is still available and will talk to me later
4/2---I tell seller i'll pay $1300 for the card
4/3---Seller tells me he has much interest in the card and will forward scans to me
4/3---I tell seller my offer of $1300 is good till Monday as there is another card im thinking of buying
4/3---Seller tells me the card is mine at $1300.


Now you can turn this anyway you want, but these are the facts. By my count, thats 4 days worth of "negotiations". My initial request was simply for scans. I made my offer on day 3 of the negotiations, and to the best of my knowlege, the card was not yet "sold". Had it been sold, I seriously doubt that we would have gone through the rest of this "dance". You can be upset with me because my pockets may be a bit deeper than yours, I cant control that. Im willing to overpay for cards that I really want, and theres nothing unethical about that. But I can understand why you may be pissed about that, especially if you would like to buy a card at the lowest price possible. I dont concern myself too much on price, that extra $300 means very little to me....thats basically a sour 20 minute run at the blackjack table.

Chicago206, gecko109, Phil or whatever your name is, I am not "upset with you" or "pissed." I have no reason to be. I just know BS when I hear it. I also don't care how deep your pockets are, but it seems like you sure like to tell everybody how deep they are...

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=769923&highlight_key=y

If your pockets are really that deep, then why are you slumming by looking at $194K houses when the median home price in Chicago is $238K?

[canjond]

I've dealt with Jamie in the past and had a good transaction. However, there is something that worries me about this, too - so feel I should speak up. I contacted Jamie last night (10:30pm) about the Uzit and asked for a scan. I received an email back almost immediately. The email I received stated as follows "top offer is 1300. Are you interested at 1400? If so I will send pic tomorrow." What worries me about this is if the card was already sold for $1300, what would have happened if I agreed to the transaction?

Again, my past dealings with Jamie have been good and I don't really want to be involved in a board fight (I'd rather stay out of it). However, I did not receive full disclosure that the cards was promised to someone else (however I did receive full disclosure that there was another buyer at $1300 so I could not fault Jamie there) and it sounds like the other potential buyer did not receive full disclosure (that his $1300 offer was the "floor.")

[Chicago206]

I've dealt with Jamie in the past and had a good transaction. However, there is something that worries me about this, too - so feel I should speak up. I contacted Jamie last night (10:30pm) about the Uzit and asked for a scan. I received an email back almost immediately. The email I received stated as follows "top offer is 1300. Are you interested at 1400? If so I will send pic tomorrow." What worries me about this is if the card was already sold for $1300, what would have happened if I agreed to the transaction?

Again, my past dealings with Jamie have been good and I don't really want to be involved in a board fight (I'd rather stay out of it). However, I did not receive full disclosure and it sounds like the other potential buyer did not receive full disclosure (that his $1300 offer was the "floor."


Jamie told me that I was "locked in" at $1300 and not to worry if he got an offer of $1400. Basically, the card was "sold" to me. This of course was BEFORE I had realized he was using me as leverage to bid on an auction lot!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Jamie told me that I was "locked in" at $1300 and not to worry if he got an offer of $1400.

Yes gecko, and somebody else was probably locked in at $1000 until your $1300 offer came along.

[Chicago206]

"If your pockets are really that deep, then why are you slumming by looking at $194K houses when the median home price in Chicago is $238K? "


Im not quite sure of your intent at embarassing me, perhaps Jamie is your buddy, but I digress. To answer your question, 4 years ago my wife and I had no kids, and we both enjoyed traveling as well as buying nice things (cars, gold/silver bullion, etc). The $194k house fit into our lifestyle very well at that time. It was a 2 bedroom ranch in a neighborhood full of city workers (im a Chicago firefighter). So it was safe, and large enough for us to be happy, yet the mortgage was small enough to allow us to do whatever we wanted to do...ie we wouldnt be "married to a mortgage". We ended up buying a bigger house not far from the one we wanted for $224k that was even nicer. The small difference in price didnt bother us, but in retrospect, its a good thing we didnt get the other one. My wife became pregnant with our son a few months after we closed on the home! We really appreciate the extra space now.

[Chicago206]

Yes gecko, and somebody else was probably locked in at $1000 until your $1300 offer came along.


Blame the seller for that, if its true. I had no knowlege of the card being sold already...if in fact it even was, as you speculate. You have a serious hard on for me though. Im beginning to see that much.:cool:

[carrigansghost]

I do not have deep pockets but will also overpay for cards that I really want.

Rawn

[vintagetoppsguy]

I do not have deep pockets but will also overpay for cards that I really want.

Rawn


Likewise. However that is usually an auction style format. Sometimes we bid more than what we think the card may be worth to ensure that we win it when we know we are (or may be) in competition with others. A fixed price sale is totally different. The seller quotes his asking price and the buyer can either choose to purchase it or not. Until this day (and I've been collecting for 26 years) I have never heard of a buyer offer a seller 30% more (or any more) than his asking price on a card. It just doesn't make sense to me. In all my years of collecting I have never been at a show or in a shop and have a dealer quote me a price on a card and then turn around and offer him more than what he's asking. Am I missing something or is that just common practice?

[carrigansghost]

Don't get me wrong, I'm with the buyer here and would hold the seller to the agreed price.

Rawn

[bcornell]

2 threads in 2 weeks about 'BST problems' from the same guy. I've used it 100+ times in 6 years and have yet to have an issue with anyone. Either I'm lucky, or something else is the root cause.

This thread reminds me why my one year of moderating this forum was a lifetime's worth.


Bill

[carrigansghost]

No problems with "BST" here either and no problems with ebay. Guess I'm one of the lucky few.

Rawn

[forazzurri2axz]

this originally posted by vintagetopps collector
Likewise. However that is usually an auction style format. Sometimes we bid more than what we think the card may be worth to ensure that we win it when we know we are (or may be) in competition with others. A fixed price sale is totally different. The seller quotes his asking price and the buyer can either choose to purchase it or not. Until this day (and I've been collecting for 26 years) I have never heard of a buyer offer a seller 30% more (or any more) than his asking price on a card. It just doesn't make sense to me. In all my years of collecting I have never been at a show or in a shop and have a dealer quote me a price on a card and then turn around and offer him more than what he's asking. Am I missing something or is that just common practice?

.... IFthe seller has a price and it SEEMS like he may be shopping around for a better price, and IF I really want the card, then at times I have offered more than the asking price to "finalize" the transaction and have the seller commit to me at that point...it seems to me that while his price may have originally been $1000.00, it was almost like a "make a best offer " type situation...my 2 cents

[slidekellyslide]

This thread reminds me why my one year of moderating this forum was a lifetime's worth.


Bill

The last 2-3 weeks haven't been fun.

[Chicago206]

2 threads in 2 weeks about 'BST problems' from the same guy. I've used it 100+ times in 6 years and have yet to have an issue with anyone. Either I'm lucky, or something else is the root cause.

This thread reminds me why my one year of moderating this forum was a lifetime's worth.


Bill


Yeah, its all my fault on this one. Shame on me for not wanting to be used as leverage for another guy's bid in an auction without being told thats what it was. By the way, perhaps you missed my follow-up on the other BST topic....it was a PUBLIC APOLOGY. Either you missed it, or convienently failed to mention it in your above post.

[carrigansghost]

Chicago, I think you are taking it wrong. It;s a reference to the drama on here and the morals of some that do business on the forum.

Rawn

[jb217676]

My understanding of this situation is Jamie is auctioning a card to the highest bidder before he actually owns the card. His thinking is, the higher the price he gets for the Uzit, the more money he has towards the other card he wants. If I were Chicago206, I would outbid Jamie on the pair and sell him the one he wants. Or another member with 'deep pockets' could win the pair and put an end to this story. That would be funny!:D

[scottglevy]

Just looked at the heritage auction being mentioned. Certainly seems like there are quite a few Uzit cards up for bids -- plenty to go around.

As for the drama.... While I have my thoughts, I'd rather just stay out of it and hope for a reasonable resolution for both involved.

Best,
Scott

[JP]

Jamie can feign innocence all he wants, but as you can read in the email he sent me (first or second page of this thread I believe) he purposefully omitted relevant information...like the fact it wasn't "for sale" but actually an auction. And he told me the high offer was $1300, indicating there was no deal in place, and that he'd roll over for any amount higher than that. All the way around he has been dishonest, an there is no suitable explanation that can explain that away.

[bcornell]

Yeah, its all my fault on this one. Shame on me for not wanting to be used as leverage for another guy's bid in an auction without being told thats what it was. By the way, perhaps you missed my follow-up on the other BST topic....it was a PUBLIC APOLOGY. Either you missed it, or convienently failed to mention it in your above post.

Yeah, I missed it, but thanks for the all caps emphasis. I'll make sure I pay special attention to your weekly BST blowup in the new few days.

[Fred]

Choo- choo.... this is the Cannon Ball Express heading for "Train-Wreck Taverns"...

My 2 cents...

A quick recap -

<ul>
<li>A T206 UZIT card is offered on BST for $1K.
<li>Potential buyer (person who started thread) agrees to $1.3K and delivery in a short period of time.
<li>Potential buyer finds out that seller doesn't own the card, rather the card is up for auction via Heritage Auctions. The delivery time of the card is prior to the end of the auction - How can that be. This rubs the buyer the wrong way and the potential buyer is pissed off enough to out the potential seller in this thread.
<li>New twist - someone else shows interest in the card and the potential seller tells that person that the card is theirs for $1.4K - now, that is really pushing the enveloped on the part of the potential seller.
<li>We are all waiting for the potential seller to respond to this thread.... I CAN'T WAIT....
</ul>

Some people might think the actions of the seller are fine, as long as he follows through with the sale. Personally, I think it's a real bad way to do business, especially with another board member. What really makes this bad is the accusation that the potential seller would have taken more money for the card from someone else. If this is in fact true then I think that the potenial seller has a lot of explaining to do.

Doesn't common sense dictate that you can't sell what you don't own and you should honor your price on a card, even if you are offered more for it. GREED!!!!

The BST is caveat emptor. Actions like these will almost force the moderators to create rules for something that is supposed to be a friendly arena for trade.

Here's the link to the UZIT cards in question (being auctioned by Heritage):

http://sports.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=717&Lot_No=81043

I hope nobody gets upset that I posted the link but it's already common knowledge which card is in question and which auction house is selling it.

Potential Buyer = happy to make deal :D
Potenial Buyer = puzzled about potential sellers actions :eek:
Potential Buyer = pissed off after finding out what potential seller is up to :mad:

[ullmandds]

Definitely not an ethical way to do business in my opinion...but wow...look at all those uzits! I think Jamie is consulting with Tiger Wood's PR person prior to making his statement.

[oldjudge]

Maybe I missed the piece of information in the carnage, but why would a buyer be paying $1300 for a card that was offered at $1000? If the seller was crawfishing on the deal to start with, that was probably a good sign to walk away (run away) from dealing with him.

[Blunder19]

Back from being out all night...Time to stick up for myself. this will be a long one...
Before I start..If posting a card you do not own in the BST ..to find a "partner" in a auction is not allowed.. then I am sorry for that....i have never done it before so i wasnt sure.

Chicago,

First of all i dont appreciate how you have tried to blow this up into a huge deal. You have already needed to appoligize to the board once before for posting first and thinking second.

Here was my intentions: to win the auction and sell the card to Chicago for the agreed upon $1300, keeping the seymour for myself. Collecting the $1300 after I had won the auction. Thats it. I told Chicago that I DIDNT OWN THE CARD on April 2nd, here is the email sent to him then:
"Phil.

The card is being sold with a second card that I want. I have no interest in the jennings uzit. So after I receive the jennings I'm looking to have someone to send it to right away... The card is a very good 1."

here is the email I sent today about Phil wanting me to put "sold" on bst :
" ..(I wont) put its sold until I have the card in hand. Which will be in a couple weeks. As I said I'm not looking for anyone else. So as long as my deal goes through. So will ours."

and my last email to him today:
"I took down the Uzit post. I will need notice if you for some reason need to back out. Because then I have to find someone else interested. So you 100% want the uzit for 1300 right?"



Where is the scam there. Maybe I am wrong for assuming that I am going to win the auction. But I have a very good idea of what this SHOULD end at.. and what I was going to bid.... But the word scam means that I am looking to rip someone off.. which i have never done ever!.. i told you I didnt own the card April 2nd... and you RAISED your offer price AFTER I said that....how dare you start this thread Chicago.. go make more youtube videos of your backs if you want to waste time...

What if by some small percentage this auction went up to a rediculious amount? More then I was willing to pay..... Then I would have to appoligize because my deal fell through.. and look to make it up to him in a future deal... Chicago found out from ME that this was not my card and I needed to buy it from "another source".. i did not want to mention where.. because maybe he goes and bids on the lot and now I am weakening my chance to win the Seymour.

And I believe 2 one offs I wanted to address... I had no agreement with anyone else at 1000... just interest.. chicago was the only one I had an agreement with.. and as soon as we had an agreement I removed the ad from the bst saying I am no longer looking for a buyer.. so clearly planning on honoring my agreement with Chicago...
2nd someone said that I dont value my rep on this board..?.. I am on this board every day.. posting all the time... ofcourse I care about this board..

Jamie

[prestigecollectibles]

It seems to me there were only 2 choices.

1) Try to win the auction on your own and sell the card you didn't want later.
2) Out the auction by looking for a partner up front.

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Jamie,

Your reply did not respond to the fact that you offered the card at $1400.

Both of you have a bit to be desired in how this whole thing is being handled.

Chicago, you are going to have to learn on this board if you are going to go after somebody there are going to be defenders both ways and your past rep will get brought up.

Who says you can't sell what you dont own ask Bernie madoff. :D

Lee

[ctownboy]

My two cents;

Sellers actions don't seem right. There HAD to be a better way of going about doing what he ultimately wanted to do; i.e., win an auction for two cards and sell the card he wasn't interested in.


As far as offering MORE for a card than a seller is asking, I can see it happening, ESPECIALLY if the seller says he wont have the card for two weeks. My take on that would be the seller was buying cards from someone else and might have a money squeeze going on OR the second seller is wavering about the sale price.

In either case the buyer, who is expecting the card in two weeks, could then think if he increases the amount he is willing to pay for the card he wants it will give the person he is buying the card from a little leverage in either getting the deal done or getting it done sooner.

What I wouldn't expect to be happening is that I was being used as a silent and unkown partner in an auction. If that were the case, I could just bid on the same two cards and, if I won them, sell the card I didn't want.

If I were being used like this, I would be upset too.

David

[whitehse]

Seems Chicago Gecko starts fights everywhere he goes and then throws around how much money he has to fight these fires he starts. (pun intended for the engineer from the Chicago Fire Department) This act gets old real fast and when I first saw him post here I just knew he was going to start fires here too!

[FUBAR]

Maybe i can make a suggestion... nothing can be sold or attempted to be sold on BST unless you own it outright, other then that, list it as an auction partnership.

I dont think Jamie was trying to scam anyone, I think we are all guilty of "assuming" people know what we mean when we say something. I think Jamie will be a little more careful next time as there are sharks lurking for every auction.

Chicago, i understand your point totally, but maybe before ranting and raving, use some discretion and try all means, including giving someone ample time to solve the issue without going overboard.

we all have too much drama in our lives with wives, kids, mortgages, etc

Cards should be drama free


Just my two cents worth, if it matters

[sbfinley]

Maybe i can make a suggestion... nothing can be sold or attempted to be sold on BST unless you own it outright, other then that, list it as an auction partnership.


+1

[Chicago206]

My two cents;

Sellers actions don't seem right. There HAD to be a better way of going about doing what he ultimately wanted to do; i.e., win an auction for two cards and sell the card he wasn't interested in.


As far as offering MORE for a card than a seller is asking, I can see it happening, ESPECIALLY if the seller says he wont have the card for two weeks. My take on that would be the seller was buying cards from someone else and might have a money squeeze going on OR the second seller is wavering about the sale price.

In either case the buyer, who is expecting the card in two weeks, could then think if he increases the amount he is willing to pay for the card he wants it will give the person he is buying the card from a little leverage in either getting the deal done or getting it done sooner.

What I wouldn't expect to be happening is that I was being used as a silent and unkown partner in an auction. If that were the case, I could just bid on the same two cards and, if I won them, sell the card I didn't want.

If I were being used like this, I would be upset too.

David



This is precisely what upset me...And Jamie was absolutely wrong in what he did. But rather than apologize, he is trying to defend these very lame actions.

[Chicago206]

Oh, and Jamie....I see you like to post snipets of our emails to try to defend what you did. Why dont you post....word for word....the actual emails in total we had? I can do it if you want. Lets show the forum that in over 12 emails to me, you never mention the card is part of an auction. You say in one email that "Im buying this card with another", but that could mean you have a deal in place with a dealer, another collector, or a buddy from college. The very LAST thing im thinking is "auction". You guaranteed me the card in 2 weeks if I was willing to commit $1300. How can you do that when the card is in an auction? You cannot guarantee you will be high bidder. At that point is when you should have told me that you "guarantee the card would be mine IF you were the high bidder". But you didnt.....instead, you continued your lies and deception. Now you come in here and accuse ME of being unreasonable? Take some responsibility for your own actions Jamie. You tried to deceive me.....not the other way around.

[Chicago206]

Back from being out all night...Time to stick up for myself. this will be a long one...
Before I start..If posting a card you do not own in the BST ..to find a "partner" in a auction is not allowed.. then I am sorry for that....i have never done it before so i wasnt sure.

Chicago,

First of all i dont appreciate how you have tried to blow this up into a huge deal. You have already needed to appoligize to the board once before for posting first and thinking second.

Here was my intentions: to win the auction and sell the card to Chicago for the agreed upon $1300, keeping the seymour for myself. Collecting the $1300 after I had won the auction. Thats it. I told Chicago that I DIDNT OWN THE CARD on April 2nd, here is the email sent to him then:
"Phil.

The card is being sold with a second card that I want. I have no interest in the jennings uzit. So after I receive the jennings I'm looking to have someone to send it to right away... The card is a very good 1."

here is the email I sent today about Phil wanting me to put "sold" on bst :
" ..(I wont) put its sold until I have the card in hand. Which will be in a couple weeks. As I said I'm not looking for anyone else. So as long as my deal goes through. So will ours."

and my last email to him today:
"I took down the Uzit post. I will need notice if you for some reason need to back out. Because then I have to find someone else interested. So you 100% want the uzit for 1300 right?"



Where is the scam there. Maybe I am wrong for assuming that I am going to win the auction. But I have a very good idea of what this SHOULD end at.. and what I was going to bid.... But the word scam means that I am looking to rip someone off.. which i have never done ever!.. i told you I didnt own the card April 2nd... and you RAISED your offer price AFTER I said that....how dare you start this thread Chicago.. go make more youtube videos of your backs if you want to waste time...

What if by some small percentage this auction went up to a rediculious amount? More then I was willing to pay..... Then I would have to appoligize because my deal fell through.. and look to make it up to him in a future deal... Chicago found out from ME that this was not my card and I needed to buy it from "another source".. i did not want to mention where.. because maybe he goes and bids on the lot and now I am weakening my chance to win the Seymour.

And I believe 2 one offs I wanted to address... I had no agreement with anyone else at 1000... just interest.. chicago was the only one I had an agreement with.. and as soon as we had an agreement I removed the ad from the bst saying I am no longer looking for a buyer.. so clearly planning on honoring my agreement with Chicago...
2nd someone said that I dont value my rep on this board..?.. I am on this board every day.. posting all the time... ofcourse I care about this board..

Jamie



Ok....enough of Jamie's lies. Not once did he ever say anything even similar to "as long as my deal goes through, so will ours". I strongly feel the need to list every word of every email regarding this matter. The newest is on top, the oldest at the bottom, so read from bottom, up.




Re: Uzit...second request‏
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Sent: Sat 4/03/10 6:38 PM
To: phil wyantt (golddigger10932@hotmail.com)

There is no answer because that situation wouldn't have come up because I told u today I need to buy the card first.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt <golddigger10932@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 18:35:14 -0500
To: <blunder19@aol.com>
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


Im really not either. It was just an honest question. I wanted to know what excuse you were gonna give me if you didnt win that auction lot. Thats not alot to ask, is it?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 23:22:37 +0000

Phil I'm not big into back and forth crap so good luck with your collecting.

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt <golddigger10932@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 18:18:50 -0500
To: <blunder19@aol.com>
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request



Have you ever "planned on winning an auction", but it didnt happen? Yeah, me too! You guaranteed I would get the card if I committed to pay the $1300. When the auction ended in 19 days, and if you were not the winner, what did you plan on telling me Jamie??? Im VERY curious to know!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 23:09:42 +0000

Sorry u feel mislead u. All I was trying to do is find a buyer for a card that I am going to buy but don't want. I am planning on winning this card. And I didn't let u wait 2 weeks because I told u today I needed to buy it first. I will just look for someone else. Sry to have wasted ur time. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt <golddigger10932@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 17:55:41 -0500
To: <blunder19@aol.com>
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request



Go back and read our emails.....Now answer the following question:

Under what circumstances was I willing to wait 2 weeks? AS LONG AS YOU GUARANTEED I OWNED THE CARD!

Correct or no? I did not agree to wait 2 weeks to SEE IF I GET THE CARD. Correct or no?

Furthermore, since the auction doesnt end for 19 days, and it will take at least another 5-7 days before you actually get the card, we are talking closer to a month than 2 weeks, arent we?

You tried to use me as leverage to buy an auction lot without telling me so. If I did go along with it, not knowing, and you were NOT the winner of that auction, then what? You come here to tell me "sorry, tough luck"? Tell me that after I have commited my money to you??? And you see nothing wrong there? Wow!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 22:46:23 +0000

Phil I don't follow. If I get the card I was looking to sell it to someone interested. I wasn't taking your money until I have the card in hand. If your not interested in waiting 2 weeks then why did you tell me you were? Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt <golddigger10932@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 17:42:58 -0500
To: <blunder19@aol.com>
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


Unreal Jamie. VERY deceptive thing you did. Im only willing to wait 2 weeks because you GUARANTEED it would be mine. How do you guarantee a card thats in a live auction? Im not going to commit my money, and pass on other deals so that I MIGHT get the card IF you place the winning bid. You should have been more upfront with me....you should not have guaranteed the card to me if I commited to you. And thats what you did. Reread our emails...I was very clear that I dont mind waiting as long as it was a sure thing. Next time look for an "auction buddy" so that he at least understands there is a chance he wont get the card. Thanks anyway.

Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 22:18:04 +0000

I took down the Uzit post. I will need notice if you for some reason need to back out. Because then I have to find someone else interested. So you 100% want the uzit for 1300 right?

Jamie Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt <golddigger10932@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 17:08:06 -0500
To: <blunder19@aol.com>
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


The sharks are in a feeding frenzy in your BST ad. Im doing everything in my power to restrain myself from posting that I bought it. Perhaps it would be best for you to state the card has sold?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 21:55:00 +0000

Ok good. I'll keep you posted.

Jamie Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt <golddigger10932@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 15:26:19 -0500
To: <blunder19@aol.com>
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


Its a deal Jamie! Im in no hurry as long as I know its mine..:-). Consider the deal done.

Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 20:10:17 +0000

Also you have my word that even if someone else were to offer 1400 for example.. I would turn it down.

So no worries on that front. As long as you are ok with waiting 2 weeks.

Jamie Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt <golddigger10932@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 15:04:57 -0500
To: <blunder19@aol.com>
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


As long as I have your word that its mine....I have zero problems waiting the couple of weeks. Just let me know when it arrives, and i'll get a bank check out to you that day. Not sure if you saw my thread I posted yesterday, but I have just completed the 15 brands backs collection. Of the 15 cards, all are graded but 1....its a super beater Uzit that I was able to buy for $300 as a filler. Today feels great as now I have a decent example of an Uzit. I thank you for the opportunity!


Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 19:50:20 +0000

Phil
I would prefer certified bank check..so I don't have paypal fees.. Paypal is fine if you want to do is as a gift... Or add 3%... But hold off on paying until I get it in the mail. It may be as long as 2 weeks. But I will not go around looking for anyone else. If you have a problem waiting 2 weeks.. Let me know so I can look for someone else.

Jamie Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt <golddigger10932@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 14:45:08 -0500
To: <blunder19@aol.com>
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


I'll take it. How do you want payment?

Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 13:14:02 -0400
From: blunder19@aol.com


Phil,

Heres the scans.. let me know if you are in at 1300.... and I will not seek out anyone else.

jamie





-----Original Message-----
From: phil wyantt <golddigger10932@hotmail.com>
To: blunder19@aol.com
Sent: Sat, Apr 3, 2010 12:29 pm
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


Hey Jamie. Just writing to let you know that my offer of $1300 is solid until Monday morning. Hopefully you will know by then. Although I badly want the card for my backs collection, I have been presented with another fantastic opportunity for a card I want as well (but your Uzit is my priority). Hate to wait longer than Monday just to hear someone else offered higher on your Uzit, and then lose this other opportunity as well, im sure you understand my dilemma. The sooner, the better on letting me know if I own the Uzit at $1300. Thanks.

Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 01:58:16 +0000

Let me send u the scans 1st. I also have other people that I promised to send the pic to. So to be fair to them I have to hear what they want to pay. I will not make any decisions without letting you know what's going on. U seem very interested, and I know the feeling.
Jamie Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt <golddigger10932@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 20:39:40 -0500
To: <blunder19@aol.com>
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


Consider it sold to me at $1300 as long as it has decent eye appeal for a 1. I dont care about creases at all, I just hate paper loss. If the card looks sharp for a 1, I will take it at $1300. Let me know if this is ok with you.

Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 01:20:51 +0000

Phil.

The card is being sold with a second card that I want. I have no interest in the jennings uzit. So after I receive the jennings I'm looking to have someone to send it to right away... The card is a very good 1. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt <golddigger10932@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 19:40:06 -0500
To: <blunder19@aol.com>
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


Thanks for the reply Jaime. If the card is a higher end 1, I wouldnt mind spending $1,300 on it. Just keep that in mind before selling it. Talk with you tomorrow.

Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 00:35:53 +0000

Phil I am busy with quarter end work... I am not free until tomorrow. I will catch up on baseball stuff tomorrow... I have many people interested in getting the card. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt <golddigger10932@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 19:17:56 -0500
To: <blunder19@aol.com>
Subject: Uzit...second request


Hi Jamie. This is my 2nd request to see the Uzit. Let me know whats going on when you get the chance as I'd like to own the card. Thanks.

Phil

[Tcards-Please]

I can certainly understand why Chicago is upset. Nowhere in Jamie's write up does he list this as needing an "auction partner". If he had disclosed that information, this could have been handled a lot earlier. Leon asked if he could post a scan and he didn't respond to that. Dan asked if he owns the card, again no response. People were trying to asertain information because the "seller" wasn't being forthright in the ad. He was holding people to their word, when he wasn't with his. How long would he have continued to shop the card that he didn't own? What if the buyer was really interested in another card that he couldn't now afford because he had $1300.00 locked up on this only to have the "seller" of the UZIT card (which he didn't own) come back 2 days later to say oh, thank you for your interest, but someone else just offered me $1400.00.

I agree that you shouldn't be able to post anything for sale on the BST unless you have the card in hand. If you are looking for a partner, say so, don't be deceptive.

I have no dog in this fight, but as a frequent buyer on the BST, I certainly would be pi$$ed if this were me. But again, I would have been a little suspect if I didn't get the card for the original $1000.00 that the seller agreed to on the original post.

r/
Frank

[jp1216]

unreal - what a way to wake up on Easter morning...

10 pages later - now I'm awake...

My 2 cents - Jamie was looking for an auction buddy. He didn't want others to know and lose out on the card he wanted from the lot. Improper post in a B/S/T to begin with and very misleading. It read that first one to email Jamie and pay 1K would get the card.

Chicago requested scans and sensed Jamie was unsure who to sell the card to and upped the amount to 1.3K to seal the deal. Nothing really wrong with what Chicago did - unless he knew the card was already promised to someone else for 1K. I don't believe that is the case.

Chicago - email exchanges from you and Jamie were helpful - but they are also private in a sense. You posted yours and his email address for everyone to see. Please edit and remove them at the very least.

My opinion is that Jamie made a mistake, and Chicago gets too excited. Let's move on.

BTW - anyone looking for a partner is the upcoming HA auctions. I hear there are some Uzits.... ;)

[JP]

It's obvious from those emails, and the email he sent me, that Jamie was well aware of what key words to omit so as to not raise suspicion. He knew that listing for sale something he didn't own was not right. Hopefully he can't plead ignorance and get away with it.

Jamie also never had any intention of keeping his word to Phil. Check out the last line in his email to me. He obviously was looking for more than the $1300 he had already agreed to with Phil. "The high guy right now is at 1300. I will send picks if your still interested."

[Potomac Yank]

"Blunder's, Blunder" :)

[Rich Klein]

I was told "Blue Chip" did the exact same thing. They would run these big ads in BHN; then when they got orders; would go to shows and pay for the cards they had sold. Nice business; get $ in hand; sell cards for less than you sold them for.

And yes, I sold a lot of cards to "BC" that way; but it was an interesting concept.

Rich

[Tcards-Please]

I was told "Blue Chip" did the exact same thing. They would run these big ads in BHN; then when they got orders; would go to shows and pay for the cards they had sold. Nice business; get $ in hand; sell cards for less than you sold them for.

And yes, I sold a lot of cards to "BC" that way; but it was an interesting concept.

Rich

Rich,

An interesting idea, absolutely, not a problem with doing that as long as you are on the up and up with your intentions. Don't advertise a card for $1000.00, then behind the scenes take offers. He was tying up peoples money for an uncertainty that was another 3 weeks away. Full disclosure on the BST should be a must.

r/
Frank

[barrysloate]

Not much I can add that hasn't already been said, other than to say this whole thing is deplorable. And I don't even want to take sides.

But a short piece of advice to Jamie: never, ever assume you are going to win something at auction before the auction ends. What if a serious T206 back collector was looking for a Uzit Jennings, or a Uzit Seymour, for the last ten years? And he saw this as his one and only chance to get one. You would have been dead in the water. Repeat: never, ever assume you know what an auction lot will go for, and furthermore, don't sell anything you don't own. Whatever your intentions, that is very bad business.

The rest of this argument is pretty much "he said, she said" kind of stuff so I will stay out of it. Thank you.

[buymycards]

This is kind off point, but I am curious as to why Heritage is selling 2 Uzits in 1 lot. Considering the rarity and the fact that there are so many people interested in Uzits, wouldn't the consigner make more $ if these were sold individually? Personally, I might consider placing a healthy bid on 1 Uzit for my personal collection, but I don't really need or want 2.

Rick

[Edwolf1963]

Only thing I can think of reading through all of this is Jaime didn't want to disclose the location of the card and auction for fear of weakening his buying position - now the entire board knows where it is, what it is and when it ends. Heritage and the seller of this lot couldn't have asked for better promotion!

[T206DK]

no doubt Ed....my brother collects rare backs and hadn't even looked at the Heritage auction until I told him last night ! This "deal" being discussed sounds shady at the least. Why should board members be allowed to sell cards they don't even own ?? I think something should be done so this behavior doesn't continue on the BST area.

[Jewish-collector]

Perfect thread for Easter Sunday. :eek:

[frankb22]

As soon as I saw that BST listing the first thing I thought was that
he didn't have the card. That's why he was being so vague and it had
no scans which he usually posts.

I decided a while back that I would not be doing any deals with Blunder after
he stole my entire EBay listing of photo, set-up and lengthy description after I
sold him an item. To some it may seem like no big deal but it just rubbed me
the wrong way and showed no respect, especially since he knew I was a board
member. I blocked him from my auctions after that. I just don't care for the
way he goes about things.

[Sixtofan]

"What if by some small percentage this auction went up to a rediculious amount? More then I was willing to pay..... Then I would have to appoligize because my deal fell through.. and look to make it up to him in a future deal..."

I would never advertise something I didn't own, I realize others may feel differently. The even bigger issue for me is, I just cannot understand the quote above. It appears Blunder was not going to follow through on the deal if it got too pricey. That is wrong, this is clearly a willingness to break your word

[Blunder19]

Frank,

I "stole" a picture... of what.. a card that I owned at the time? .... after I buy a card i always save a pic from the seller... dont you? Its a pic of my card. I love how people are trying to ruin my reputation. after years and years of collecting I have never had 1 person where money was exchanged say 1 bad thing about me.

Im sorry to have wasted everyones time. This is rediculious that I am put on blast in such a way. Really?? a 12-15 page thread on this?? just rediculious.. I hope that auction ends at $10,000. I want no part of it now.

I told Chicago I didnt own the card .. not in our very first dialog.. so for that Im sorry... how many dam sorrys do I have to give.. and I didnt let him wait the 2-3 weeks thinking I owned the card. Thus the start of this thread. If my intentions were to lock up his money thinking I owned the card.. I would have never said anything to him.. and he would have not started this ranting and raving thread.

JP... I asked you about the 1400 BEFORE I had an agreement with Chicago... can you comprehend that....Im tired of you blabing your mouth that I wasnt going to come through fro Chicago... who are you to speak of my intentions?? I recall a thread about you being shady with deals not too long ago.... Chicago offered 1300 .. I didnt say yes at first...I wanted to see if anyone else wanted to go higher... we had no agreement then... but then he emailed me that he wanted an answer or he was out... which was after any talks with you. Thats when I said ok.. Is that NOT how it happened Chicago?


The 2 cards are very different in value. a HOFer and a commoner. by looking for an auction buddy, I would have tryed to agree upon a price with the other buyer for the jennings. One problem. I was not sure of the market value for the jenninngs. I had an idea but thought posting on the bst would get people to make offers and then I could have an agreement with the highest one realizing a more accurate market value for the jennings uzit.... so one last time thge way i went about finding market value and a partner was wrong. so I am sorry. Chicago now if you want your jennings you can spend 2k+ because thats what it is goinng to end at.

Im not looking at this page once more on easter.. going to spend time with my family... hopefully you are doing the same and not reading this crap... maybe by tomorrow this can be a 20 page thread on a deal where no money was exchanged and one "member" who could start a 20 page thread blasting anyone.

Chicago= Mad drama... deal with him if you like that... me, I get enough of that from my GF. so Im good on that front.

[calvindog]

And your spelling sucks too.

[thekingofclout]

Im sorry to have wasted everyones time. This is rediculious that I am put on blast in such a way. Really?? a 12-15 page thread on this?? just rediculious.. I hope that auction ends at $10,000. I want no part of it now.

Someone had to come off the bench and fill in for Bruce now that he's in the penalty box for 30 days! It's what we call a Bad Beat in the casino business.

[ullmandds]

Jamie...I don't know you...other than that you put together a t206 set in record time...then sold it...and are now putting together a t206 backs collection...but your attempted sale was unethical and just wrong...and the way you're handling this is pretty poor. If you were to admit that what you did was wrong...and apologize...this would go away...but the way you're acting...this will not soon go away...it'll only get worse. Happy holidays to everyone!

[Exhibitman]

There is a big difference between preselling a card that is part of a deal you have in place and preselling a card that you are trying to win in an auction. In the former situation you have an actual property right to sell (a contract in place for the item but possession hasn't passed yet) while in the latter you have nothing legally yours to sell. Former is OK; happens all the time in many aspects of commerce. I've done it myself. Latter isn't ever OK. What I read sounded like the seller was trying to sell off a piece of a deal in place, not a bidder hoping to win an auction with a partner.

[Ladder7]

Frank, Perhaps stealing your item description is a legit gripe. But c'mon It's petty to be upset that a buyer takes the scan of his purchase. I do it all the time and never thought the seller would get his BVDs all bunched up.

Incidentally, if anyone wants scans of my beaters, have at it.

To get back on track. Both guys are knuckleheads of varying degrees. Great hobby ehh?

[JP]

Jamie, you're just making it worse by not actually apologizing. And what the hell is this?

"One problem. I was not sure of the market value for the jenninngs. I had an idea but thought posting on the bst would get people to make offers and then I could have an agreement with the highest one realizing a more accurate market value for the jennings uzit...."

Your bst ad said you were selling a card for $1000. Now it appears you were running a secret auction for a card you never owned....way worse than selling a card you don't own. Instead of lashing out at everyone, just admit that you purposely deceived six ways to (Easter) Sunday.

[Robextend]

My 3 cents:

Bottom line: It should be common sense never to list an item on the B/S/T that you do not own. There isn't any excuse or explanation that will make what was done ok.

Whatever the intention was should have been made crystal clear from the initial post.

The fact that you are not apologizing without making all kinds of other statements/excuses demean the apology, and doesn't help your cause.

As far as Chicago, maybe the way he goes about things sometimes is controversial and a total turn off, however he has every right to be pissed as well as everyone else that values the B/S/T.

Rob

[Kawika]

Rediculious!!:eek:

[JP]

Rediculious!!:eek:

David, you're seplling is apawling!!!

[showtime]

i want the last 10 minutes of my life back after reading this.
but funny chicago was so concerned as he said many times about his 1300 being "tied up" but said later that losing 300 was no big deal because its just like a bad blackjack 20 minute run. just think that you went on a bad run for a little over an hour and having it tied up doesnt seem like such a big deal, right?

[Jim VB]

And your spelling sucks too.

Jeff,

That's uncalled for and "rediculious!"

[Leon]

My 3 cents:

Bottom line: It should be common sense never to list an item on the B/S/T that you do not own. There isn't any excuse or explanation that will make what was done ok.

Whatever the intention was should have been made crystal clear from the initial post.

The fact that you are not apologizing without making all kinds of other statements/excuses demean the apology, and doesn't help your cause.

As far as Chicago, maybe the way he goes about things sometimes is controversial and a total turn off, however he has every right to be pissed as well as everyone else that values the B/S/T.

Rob

Rob- your post put it fairly succinctly in my mind. There is no way someone should be (trying) to sell something, or take offers, on something they don't own and don't even know if they WILL own. Saying you will apologize if you don't win it, and can't come through with your end of a deal, is total asshattedness (I just made that derivative up, leave me alone :)) . It is NOT OK to do what Jamie Blunder did on the BST. What he should have done, and that every other board member does, is look for an auction partner for that lot. Without knowing an ending price all you have to do is give a percentage for each card in the lot. Say 65% for HOF and 35% for common, or whatever. I have done it and still do it. To not communicate that you don't own it is fraudulent in my book. The other mods and I will discuss it. It's not like anyone will go to jail or anything but I can see some time away from the BST, or the board, or both, as being possibilities. This was NOT acceptable behavior on our board.

One last thing...I am not sure when the situation about how much anyone pays for a house came up but that kind of information should, and will, remain private UNLESS it is already posted on here (by the party buying the house) or posted on another public forum. Even if posted somewhere else it really shouldn't be posted here by other than the original person as it is their own information. Hope that makes sense. Please, no more of that, even if you are making a point you can just use generalities and probably be ok. Something like, and this is not what was said "Quit braggin' about how much you pay for a house" would be ok.....giving details, probably not.

The other mods and I want the BST to be as transparent and friendly AND ETHICAL as possible. How many times do we say the key to doing smooth transactions is to communicate and OVER-Communicate. There was intentional deception in this transaction, imo, and that won't be tolerated. best regards

[Fuddjcal]

I'll give you 2,000 for this Unix guy and I'm going to over bid all of youzit guys at that Auction. If there enough dopes to go on for 15 pages about a deal that almost was, I want to own that stuff, so you can buy it from me for triple on e-bay "buy uzits now". Thanks for the info.:D

[Rob D.]

Jeff,

That's uncalled for and "rediculious!"

Another example, Jim, of why you're all that's wrong with humanity.

[Jim VB]

Another example, Jim, of why you're all that's wrong with humanity.


You're just jealous that you didn't get promoted from "all that's wrong with the hobby."

[Rob D.]

You're just jealous that you didn't get promoted from "all that's wrong with the hobby."

Not true. We all have our place in life, and mine apparently is destroying the hobby. Though I think I could expedite the process if only I'd get involved in a B/S/T or eBay flare-up on a weekly basis. I need to work on that.

[Al C.risafulli]

It is very difficult to tell this week which member of the Net54 community is ruining the hobby the most.

I vote Jim VB, but that's just me.

-Al

[Anthony S.]

I used a Just So tobacco card to light a cigar the other night, so I'd like to think for that fleeting moment I was ruining the hobby the most.

[Jim VB]

It is very difficult to tell this week which member of the Net54 community is ruining the hobby the most.

I vote Jim VB, but that's just me.

-Al

You're not paying attention. Rob D., is ruining the hobby. I, am ruining all of humanity!

Both of us are too busy to spend time ruining a small message board community. (We are taking applications for henchmen, however!)

[carrigansghost]

Wait, this is a hobby?

Rawn

[frankb22]

SteveF/Ladder7 - is right. I should not have complained about the scan
being lifted. The rest of the listing I do think is wrong to just copy and paste
especially when I was selling another of the identical item at that time.
It was not a card, it was a book - the description was 100+ words and I
still maintain it was a disrespectful move.

[Leon]

I feel the need to add another comment :rolleyes:. I don't believe Jamie was out to scam anyone. It was more of a deceit by omission, from what has been shown. regards

[calvindog]

You're not paying attention. Rob D., is ruining the hobby. I, am ruining all of humanity!

Both of us are too busy to spend time ruining a small message board community. (We are taking applications for henchmen, however!)

Rob D and Jim VB are the weapons of mass destruction in both our hobby and all of humanity. Me? I'm just an honest, hard-working guy that gets taken advantage of by all of you wheeler-dealer types.

[Rob D.]

Rob D and Jim VB are the weapons of mass destruction in both our hobby and all of humanity. Me? I'm just an honest, hard-working guy that gets taken advantage of by all of you wheeler-dealer types.

Apparently you're expanding your collection to include thank-you e-mails and PMs.

[jmk59]

I used a Just So tobacco card to light a cigar the other night, so I'd like to think for that fleeting moment I was ruining the hobby the most.

Only if it was a cheap cigar. If it was something really good, then Rob and JVB are still out front.

J

[Blunder19]

Now that I have had time to calm down and emotion is out of the way..
I will say I am sorry to Chicago for making him feel he was guarenteed the card.. unless in hand nothing is guarenteed and that is my error..

Just dont question my motives.. I am a man of my word... if I won the auction the card would have went to chicago at 1300..

if I want an auction buddy I should have posted on the main board.. lesson learned..


Jamie

[Brian Weisner]

Hi Al,
I agree.... But his real name is Donna Chang....

Be well Brian

PS I only read the last 2 pages....:)

[Matt]

if I want an auction buddy I should have posted on the main board.. lesson learned..


Jamie - main board or BST - the issue wasn't the location of the post, but that you were selling a card that you didn't own; the lesson is when you're looking for an auction partner, just say so.

[JP]

You also turned a "first $1000 gets it" into a vague free-for-all with higher offers accepted.

[Blunder19]

I see JP is a man that doesnt know how to accept an appoligy.. you must be one of those round and round we go guys...

[Fred]

"Compleetley REEDICULUS"

"I'm agassed"

Hey, anyone want to buy a Uzit? I know where I can find one (or two, or three...) that are being auctioned, right now!

Happy Easter to all!!!

[Blunder19]

matt I agree with your point.. so lesson is learned there as well...

JP anything else...? should I pay you restitution for all of your damages in this painful event? oh wait you had none.

[Potomac Yank]

Now that I have had time to calm down and emotion is out of the way..
I will say I am sorry to Chicago for making him feel he was guarenteed the card.. unless in hand nothing is guarenteed and that is my error..

Just dont question my motives.. I am a man of my word... if I won the auction the card would have went to chicago at 1300..

if I want an auction buddy I should have posted on the main board.. lesson learned..

Jamie

*

But ..... Go on with your story. :)

[sbfinley]

Both of us are too busy to spend time ruining a small message board community. (We are taking applications for henchmen, however!)
Do you have a benefits package in place?

[JP]

I see JP is a man that doesnt know how to accept an appoligy..

If an "appoligy" is some sort of weird exploratory surgery...you're right, I won't accept it.

How about apologizing to me and all of the others who were interested in buying the card you didn't have for $1000, that you broke your word with to accept more money? You make it seem like your only mistake was posting your "deal" in the BST, when in reality what you did was a lot worse.

[Blunder19]

not sure what you trying to say Joe.. that I am a liar??.. I dont even know who the hell you are .. your not invloved in this at all...and your calling me a liar?

I am done with this thread... and being publicly hung... for a small incident...

I would love to challenge someone to come forward with 1 bad experiance where money was exchanged and when I was involved on either the buying or selling side. When I take someones money, they get what they paid for, and they get my money for things that I buy from them, 100% of the time.

I made the 520 set without 1 complaint and sold it without 1 complaint. I have been buying/selling T206s for years without 1 complaint....my apology was already issued...

Jamie

[Blunder19]

here is my 1 and ONLY email to you....

"No. I've got a lot of responses... I'm looking for someone that wants to buy this card because I have to buy it along with another card for sale which is the one I want. They are being sold as a pair. And I want to find someone interested in the uzit jennings so I only end up with the card I want and not paying for both. The high guy right now is at 1300. I will send picks if your still interested.
Jamie"


I was upfront with you from the second I spoke with you. this email was sent before I had an agreement with Chicago.. round and round we go.. You knew right from the start I didnt own the card.. so why are you playing victim?

[JP]

Yes, Jamie, it appears Joe is calling you a liar. It's pretty easy for him to call it like he sees it. I also am calling you a liar. If you think the email you sent to me, that you just posted, is "upfront" then you're never going to get it. You lied by ommission. Those cards aren't "for sale". That makes it sound like you can just buy them from someone for a fixed price and you're done. You were deceptive by not mentioning it was in an auction. And no, I didn't know from the start you didn't actually have the card. But like everyone else, including two moderators who asked for proof and weren't answered, I suspected as much. Your email to me and everyone else shouldve mentioned the auction, and how winning the cards weren't guaranteed...

[Leon]

Hey Jamie
We don't need this to go on forever but JP is correct here. You still aren't seeing the point. Your email is not helping your cause. No one said you were "scamming" someone. What everyone has said is that you weren't being truthful and honest. It seems as though you still aren't accepting of that fact. A light, misdirected apology to make it all go away won't quite do the trick. I guess my main thing now is that you seem to be skirting the real issue with each post.

How can you say "I was upfront with you from the second I spoke with you."? Of course you said you had to buy it but you didn't say you would have to "win" it in auction first. IF you had said that this whole thread probably wouldn't have started as then you would have been truthful. I can't imagine asking for a buyer for a card, that I still have to win in auction, and then thinking if I don't win it I can just say I am sorry and will make it up in the future. That is all wrong, imho. best regards

[Potomac Yank]

He doesn't want to get it!

[danc]

Just came home from ham, german potato salad, pees (while not all the "riligeeous", had to celebrate the ressurection of Jesus and I read...this.

If you play the stock market, you look at this thread in a different way. You use monies and own companies that you don't own and own them in spec. Especially if you trade in options.

If his intent was an "iron-clad" guarantee that this card could be sold in X amount of days for X amount of dollars, then the person not owning the card was in fact gambling, in which if the price extended beyond what he had hoped for part of the duo and he bailed, he would be in the wrong for sure.

Saying "Sorry guy, I can't come through" in not an option if you guarantee something. So if you pay $5,000 for the lot, you HAVE to agree to sell it to this gent for the agreed upon price.

I'm not saying what he did was right, nor is the practice, but if better prepared, with more disclosure (you disclosed jack from what I read), it could have benefitted both parties and this could have been avoided. Oh well, Happy Easter!

DanC

[T206Collector]

....Jamie's "point" is unless he takes someone's money and doesn't deliver a card then he is basically free to do whatever he wants by way of deception.

But the lack of monetary damages here is mostly beside the point. If he had taken the money without delivering the cards -- and what may have happened here is that he was going to take the money to help pay for the lot before he actually had the cards in hand -- that would have been criminal, of course. That would have been theft.

But what really happened here is he tried to play the board with a lack of information, to try to run up interest in an auction he wanted to participate in without actually disclosing the auction. He was actually hoping to save money on this.

I would want to know the maximum bid he was willing to make. Let's see, get someone to commit to $1,300 and then hopefully the auction only goes to $2,000, then I get an UZIT for $700. And if the auction goes to $2,100? No worries -- I don't have to be the highest bidder. I can just say, sorry Mate, didn't buy the card, don't send me any money.

My take is he was playing the board to try to get an UZIT at a discount. That's my take on it.

Jamie, you really should have known better...

[slidekellyslide]

My take is he was playing the board to try to get an UZIT at a discount. That's my take on it.

Jamie, you really should have known better...

This is exactly how it reads to me as well...the clincher was when he told Jon C that he'd take $1400 for it. He seemed to be playing potential buyers against one another on a card that he could not guarantee he would win. Imagine if he'd gotten an offer high enough to win the entire lot that guaranteed him to actually make money and keep the other Uzit. This is totally immoral.

Dan

[Jim VB]

Do you have a benefits package in place?



Absolutely!


#1 - A lifetime subscription to the online edition of a major metropolitan newspaper.

#2 - There won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness.

[Al C.risafulli]

Deathbed? Are you wishing for someone's demise?

-Al

[marcdelpercio]

Just had a chance to read this thread and feel that I should add that I e-mailed Jamie on Friday about this card and said I was interested if it was still available. He responded within a few minutes that the "top offer is $1300" and that he would send a scan the next day, to which I replied that I was interested. There was no mention that the card was not in hand and I found it a bit odd that it had originally been advertised at $1000. I figured that there was a lot of interest so he began taking offers above that price. I was strongly considering making an offer myself depending on how the scan looked but I never received it so assumed that it had been sold. Not sure how this affects anything, if at all, but as a frequent BST user, I just wanted to make this information available to the board.

[Mike (18colt)]

I usually lurk, but felt compelled to chime in on this one.

I'm not taking sides in this particular dispute. Regardless of whether or not "Chicago" is in the right or not, or whether Jamie is in the right or not, this whole situation could have been handled privately (or semi-privately).

As a result, reputations for both parties in the eyes of their fellow collectors have likely been downgraded.

On a positive note, I will say this -- Jamie bought over 100 T-206s from me in multiple transactions back in 2008 when he was working on his set. Every transaction went off without incident. Jamie was a good buyer - he paid quickly, and we exchanged e-mails and scans so that there would be no misunderstandings when the cards and money were exchanged.

What did we all learn? Be clear with your communications. Be as honest and as accurate as possible when posting items for sale. Be cautious and have all of the information you feel you should have before committing any money to a seller. Caveat emptor.

Like them or not, their reputations did not deserve to be dragged through the mud in this fashion. Everyone makes mistakes (small ones or large ones). Everyone can learn from mistakes. Hopefully both parties will have the opportunity to show their fellow collectors that they are deserving of their business and hobby friendship.

Mike

PS: If you don't agree with me, fine. As I lurk, I probably won't see or respond to your post. Happy Collecting!

[vintagesportscollector]

[QUOTE=Blunder]Back from being out all night...Time to stick up for myself. this will be a long one...
Before I start..If posting a card you do not own in the BST ..to find a "partner" in a auction is not allowed.. then I am sorry for that....i have never done it before so i wasnt sure.

"...was that wrong? Should I not have done that? I tell you, I gotta plead ignorence on this thing, because if anyone had said anything to me at all when I first started here that that sort of thing is frowned upon... you know, cause I've worked sold in a lot of offices b/s/t, and I tell you, people do that all the time..."

sorry, just had to go into a Seinfeld tangent :)

[Tom S.]

Pot, meet kettle... (lifted from the CU forums)

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=770246

(The thread is already poofed - but in it, Chicago206 allegedly came clean and admitted that this has all been a ruse...)

Just want to fess up and apologize to everyone on this board. For the past few years, I have been living a lie. I have been making claims that just are not true. Im NOT a fireman for Chicago, but rather an unemployed IT worker. I have not worked in 20 months due to cut backs. I like to boast about things I could never have because it makes me feel important to do so in a forum like this. Any scans I have ever posted (be it cards, gold, silver, coins) were all just photos that I copied and pasted from the internet. My household income is nowhere near 173K (I wish it was!!!). In fact, I got just $17,345 from unemployment insurance last year. Also, im not married to a physical therapist who makes $86,000...again, I wish I was!!! Truth is, im not married. Im dating a woman who has 3 kids from a broken previous marraige. She is also on federal assistance as well. I just thought it was very important for me to get all this out in the open. I sincerely hope you can find it within yourselves to forgive me, and my constant lying. Thanks.

Phil

[Leon]

Pot, meet kettle... (lifted from the CU forums)

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=770246

I would be interested in seeing this thread over there but it seems like it's not a good link?

[Tcards-Please]

Pot, meet kettle... (lifted from the CU forums)

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=770246

Tom,

I'm getting an error when I attempt to open your link.

r/
Frank

[Tom S.]

I edited my previous thread to include his alleged admission.

[Chicago206]

I did write that thread. It was in response to members over there constantly questioning my veracity. I had been fed up with the constant BS and decided it was FAR easier to just claim I was a poor man than to defend against accusation after accusation that I was lying. At this point, I really dont give a shit what anyone believes about me anymore....I had been totally honest up till that thread, and it still wasnt enough to fend off the rats.

[jp1216]

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=769923&STARTPAGE=3

Kinda looks like it - but not the same thread number....

[slidekellyslide]

I'm always amused when the problems of the CU board spill over onto Net54. It always seems like the guys who can't get along over there find their way over here.

[Chicago206]

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=769923&STARTPAGE=3

Kinda looks like it - but not the same thread number....




Notice in that thread how I wanted to share the backs collection I was so proud of, and then the haters, who cant stand it when someone gets something nice, decide to come in and derail the thread? If you cannot see the unprovoked attacks on me in that thread, and the attempt I made in defending myself, then I dont know what to tell ya!

[ullmandds]

unreal...this is such grade school nonsense...unbelievable!!! Grow up people!

[Robextend]

Serenity Now

[barrysloate]

I have no idea which is the true story and which isn't. Does it even matter?

[Chicago206]

I have no idea which is the true story and which isn't. Does it even matter?


Not anymore. Like Phil Collins...."I dont care anymore".

[Leon]

"were you lieing now or then?" ......tough situation. In life, as I have gotten older, I have learned it's just so much easier to tell the truth. If I make a mistake the sooner I fix it, and admit it, the better. This stuff is ludicrous.......I can't imaging concocting a big ole story like that for any reason. But hey, that's just me.

[Wesley]

Pot, meet kettle... (lifted from the CU forums)

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=770246

(The thread is already poofed - but in it, Chicago206 allegedly came clean and admitted that this has all been a ruse...)


Quote:
Just want to fess up and apologize to everyone on this board. For the past few years, I have been living a lie. I have been making claims that just are not true. Im NOT a fireman for Chicago, but rather an unemployed IT worker. I have not worked in 20 months due to cut backs. I like to boast about things I could never have because it makes me feel important to do so in a forum like this. Any scans I have ever posted (be it cards, gold, silver, coins) were all just photos that I copied and pasted from the internet. My household income is nowhere near 173K (I wish it was!!!). In fact, I got just $17,345 from unemployment insurance last year. Also, im not married to a physical therapist who makes $86,000...again, I wish I was!!! Truth is, im not married. Im dating a woman who has 3 kids from a broken previous marraige. She is also on federal assistance as well. I just thought it was very important for me to get all this out in the open. I sincerely hope you can find it within yourselves to forgive me, and my constant lying. Thanks.

Phil

__________________




I am getting all these guys mixed up. Who is Phil? The guy who started this thread?

[barrysloate]

Life is too short for this stuff.

[Robextend]

Agreed, life is too short. Who cares what other people think anyway?

You post some of your collection; some people appreciate it, others don't...move on. Drumming up stories and making a big deal of these things makes you no better then the very people who got you upset in the first place.

[reljac]

I am getting all these guys mixed up. Who is Phil? The guy who started this thread?


Phil = Gecko on CU and Chicago206 on Net54.

[scooter729]

Who's Phil??? I'm still trying to figure out who's Schmoopy!

[barrysloate]

Schmoopie= wife of George Stephanopolous

[Chicago206]

Im Phil...nice to meet you!:D

[Robextend]

JERRY: There's Sidra.

KRAMER: There's Salman.

JERRY: Where?

KRAMER: Talkin' to that woman.

JERRY: Talkin' to Sidra?

KRAMER: If that's Sidra, she's talkin' to Salman.

JERRY: I don't think that's Salman.

KRAMER: Well, I don't think they're real.

JERRY: If that's Rushdie, they're real.

KRAMER: If they're real, that's Rushdie.

JERRY: Well, I gotta know - I'm talkin' to Sidra.

KRAMER: I gotta know, I'm talkin' to Salman.

[barrysloate]

He took it out.

[Robextend]

Some people just look for too much attention on this board...Net 54 is like the Alex theatre.


KRAMER: Look, honey, I know you're trying to get Lloyd to notice you, but this is too much. Parading around in a wet T-shirt.

ELAINE: Uhh, I got sprayed with a hose.

KRAMER: Yeah, well, I'm sorry, but the Alex is a family theatre, not one of your swing joints.

[barrysloate]

GEORGE: What do you do for a living Newman?

NEWMAN: I'm a United States postal worker.

GEORGE: Aren't those the guys that lose their jobs and then come back and shoot everybody?

NEWMAN: Sometimes...

JERRY: Why is that?

NEWMAN: Because the mail never stops...it keeps coming and coming, and then the bar code reader breaks, and then it's Publisher's Clearinghouse Week...

Okay, enough Seinfeld for today. back to business.

[Kotton King]

Yes....please....enough Seinfeld :)

[frankb22]

From the tone of that post I sure do get the impression he was being
completely sarcastic. I hope you guys aren't just doing this for your
own amusement because I can't see how anyone can read that and think
it's anything other than a goof.

[Kotton King]

From the tone of that post I sure do get the impression he was being
completely sarcastic. I hope you guys aren't just doing this for your
own amusement because I can't see how anyone can read that and think
it's anything other than a goof.

I'm in total agreement with you Frank.

[Chicago206]

From the tone of that post I sure do get the impression he was being
completely sarcastic. I hope you guys aren't just doing this for your
own amusement because I can't see how anyone can read that and think
it's anything other than a goof.


Its refreshing to see that my sarcasm was not lost on everyone.

[Potomac Yank]

Is there a Seinfeld Sports Forum ... somewhere? :)

[barrysloate]

When Chicago206 came up with these bizarre and contradictory stories, I had no trouble derailing this thread. If we were discussing something even remotely important, I would not have done so.

[Chicago206]

When Chicago206 came up with these bizarre and contradictory stories, I had no trouble derailing this thread. If we were discussing something even remotely important, I would not have done so.



I didnt "come up with" anything here in this thread. That was a post that was made in a completely seperate forum...correct? I simply "responded" to the allegations.

[barrysloate]

Fair point. But somewhere between this forum and the CU one you told two different stories that contradicted each other. And I found that weird...so I behaved weirdly in turn.

[Potomac Yank]

When Chicago206 came up with these bizarre and contradictory stories, I had no trouble derailing this thread. If we were discussing something even remotely important, I would not have done so.

*

You once derailed a thread about black baseball players during the 1880's (Fleetwood etc) with an SNL episode. ... I can give you the archive if you like.

[Chicago206]

Fair point. But somewhere between this forum and the CU one you told two different stories that contradicted each other. And I found that weird...so I behaved weirdly in turn.



We all have a tendency to act "weirdly" when we receive info thats out of context. The little tidbit of info you got (that opening post I made in another forum) was a result of, and tied in with alot of public bashing I had received over on that forum. Below is a taste of what im talking about. You will notice that I wanted to discuss cards, but a few idiots wanted to discuss my personal finances instead.

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=769923&STARTPAGE=1

[vintagewhitesox]

"were you lieing now or then?" ......tough situation. In life, as I have gotten older, I have learned it's just so much easier to tell the truth. If I make a mistake the sooner I fix it, and admit it, the better. This stuff is ludicrous.......I can't imaging concocting a big ole story like that for any reason. But hey, that's just me.


Remember Jerry, it's not a lie if YOU believe it.

[barrysloate]

Thanks Joe, but I have a good memory. I know that thread well. You've already archived it.

[scooter729]

You're not giving Lloyd Braun the waterpick!

Serenity Now!!!

[Potomac Yank]

One guy is into Fantasies ... but at least he's trying to break out of it.

The other guy is a shutin in one of the most electrifying Cities in the world, and all he does is watch TV re runs 24/7 ...

Is there a Seinfeld Sports Forum ... somewhere? :)

[barrysloate]

Joe- you know you and I have had a very bad history on this board and I am not going to engage you in any dialogue past this point. I am going to take the high road and exit from this thread. I think it is the best thing, plus nobody wants to see yet one more fight over here.

I was speaking to Leon recently and I actually told him that I thought you have been posting in an exemplary manner, and that since you came back to the board you have avoided fighting with people. And that's a good thing, so I am going to keep it that way. Thank you. Have a good day.

[Chicago206]

I wanna know what happened to the D-bag in post #157, who basically came here to say "look mommy...look at what he did....". Must be a very interesting life he leads....he seems to LOVE to start web forum drama. I wonder why he left so soon? Typical D-bag.

[mintacular]

Is a ban being considered for 'Chicago'? (Who knows, maybe he lives in NY). I don't like the idea of fraudsters hanging around this site...

[sgbernard]

I tried to stay quiet, and I hate to enter into these things, but guys, come on. This isn't the CU forum, or at least it didn't used to be. Can we leave CU stuff there. Seriously? That's what makes our forum good and theirs bad. Or that's what used to make it so. Thanks.
IMO, this thread needs to be locked. What can possibly be said that contributes to anything on this thread that hasn't been said? I'm tired of seeing it at the top of our board. I know I'm bumping it by writing, but only in a plea for the moderators to lock it. What's the purpose in letting it continue?

[jb217676]

I don't want to offend any of his fans, but it seems like more and more threads turn into a Jerry Seinfeld love-fest. What gives?:confused:

[BCauley]

I don't want to offend any of his fans, but it seems like more and more threads turn into a Jerry Seinfeld love-fest. What gives?:confused:

I would like to see some Larry David a la Curb Your Enthusiasm, though I don't know how.

In any event, if total honesty was on the table in the first place, this thread wouldn't even exist. With all the issues going on in life, I see no reason why someone has to be dishonest about baseball cards.

[Chicago206]

Is a ban being considered for 'Chicago'? (Who knows, maybe he lives in NY). I don't like the idea of fraudsters hanging around this site...




You should be banned for linking MY ebay account in your sigline. Any particular reason you did that Pat? Leon....can I have some help with this please?

[jb217676]

You should be banned for linking MY ebay account in your sigline. Any particular reason you did that Pat? Leon....can I have some help with this please?

When I click on mintacular's sig it takes me to my ebay account. I think it's because it says 'my.ebay.com' in the URL in his sig. Anyone who clicks on that link will be taken to there own ebay account (if currently logged in).

[Jim VB]

You should be banned for linking MY ebay account in your sigline. Any particular reason you did that Pat? Leon....can I have some help with this please?

You're missing something. Log out of your ebay account and then click his link.

He's not linked to "your ebay account!" He's linked to ebay, in general. It's not what he wanted to do, but it's NOT a shot at you either!




Edit: What Jeff said as I was typing!

[Chicago206]

Haha...jokes on me! You can easily see how I made that leap though I hope. Guy calls for my ban and then the link in HIS sigline takes me to my account??? Ooooops!

[Tcards-Please]

Let's just BAN everyone and start all over. :D

[Jim VB]

You can easily see how I made that leap though



That leap can only be made if you go through life expecting the worst out of everybody.

[Chicago206]

That leap can only be made if you go through life expecting the worst out of everybody.


Or when people jump into a thread to call for my ban.

[jb217676]

You're missing something. Log out of your ebay account and then click his link.

He's not linked to "your ebay account!" He's linked to ebay, in general. It's not what he wanted to do, but it's NOT a shot at you either!




Edit: What Jeff said as I was typing!


Thanks Jim. I could understand what Chicago206 was thinking. If he's like me, I hardly ever log out of my account so I might think something funny was going on too.

[Potomac Yank]

When Chicago206 came up with these bizarre and contradictory stories, I had no trouble derailing this thread. If we were discussing something even remotely important, I would not have done so.

*

"I had no trouble derailing this thread. If we were discussing something even remotely important, I would not have done so."

Are you saying that the thread about black baseball players during the 1880's was NOT remotely important, and that's why you derailed it?

I was the one that pointed out your UNINTENTIONAL highjack, and you considered it an attack.

Barry, you can NOT help yourself with your TV re runs.
To you, life is a Seinfeld re run.

You didn't like that I pointed it out, and you went crying to Leon about what you called an attack. ... Leon listened to you, and that's how it all started.

Tell us Barry, is the discussion of black baseball players during the 1880's ... remotely important? ... Or did you, yourself lie, when you made the above statement?

Folks, Barry has a track record of running, and hiding. :)

[jb217676]

Ouch!

[Jim VB]

Or when people jump into a thread to call for my ban.

Do yourself a favor. Go through and list on a piece of paper, the screen names of the people you have had spats with in the 2 months since you came on board.

Ask yourself if it could possibly be, that they are ALL troublemakers.


I don't know you. I don't know anything about you. You seem like a nice enough guy. But I know that any thread you're in turns into a tire fire. Is it all a coincidence?

[Jim VB]

*

Folks, Barry has a track record of running, and hiding. :)


Way out of line, Joe. Barry has a long track record of not wanting to fight on this board. We all, could use a little more of that.

[mintacular]

So MY sigline needs revised b/c it takes users to THEIR account...Obviously a bad link and will get 'er fixed...So to "Chicago" (and others) any and all users previously were accidentally sent to their eBay acct. b/c I did not have the proper tagline inserted. Hey, something useful came out of this thread

[Potomac Yank]

Way out of line, Joe. Barry has a long track record of not wanting to fight on this board. We all, could use a little more of that.

*

Out of Line?

Jim ... You just don't know The Goody Two Shoes. :)

[Jim VB]

*

Out of Line?

Jim ... You just don't know The Goody Two Shoes. :)

I do. And I know your approach, too.

I would like the BS on this board to stop.

[slidekellyslide]

Back to cards fellas.