Is this Joe DiMaggio?

[thekingofclout]

Barry posed this question in another thread and later suggested someone should start a poll. I agree with Barry. Here it is...

There's something very interesting about that photo. It was taken in San Francisco in the early 1930's. At that time Joe DiMaggio was a teenager living there, who would of course have been very interested in meeting a star like Ruth. Now look about three inches to the left of Babe, and down a tad. There's a boy in a cap looking at the camera. Doesn't that look like a young Joe D.?

So what do you think?

BTW... I also started the same Poll on the Memorabilia Side.

16283

[barrysloate]

Thanks Jimmy for setting this up.

[nyyanksghr]

WOW. Having viewed this photo many times, I have never noticed Joe D. in the shot. This doesn't seem to be a stretch at all. My vote is YES, it is Joe DiMaggio.

[barrysloate]

Fascinating so far. As of 9:00 we have 7 yes, 7 no, and 5 unsure. That means with 19 people voting we have no determination whatsoever. It goes to show how difficult photo identification is; different eyes see things differently.

[Jay Wolt]

Hard to determine. There's a couple of kids that look like Dimag, from the intended one
3" away to the one leaning on the Babe

[barrysloate]

At 9:53 it's still tied at 9-9-11. I actually find that statistic more interesting than whether or not it is Joe. Half of us who had an opinion are wrong. That I know with certainty.

[Leon]

Interesting debate so far. I wasn't sure. Also, this is one of the few polls we have had that if you click on the number, in any category, you will see who responded and how they responded. It's the "public" option type of poll. I love this software......:)

[Robextend]

At least no one chose "I Don't Care"....yet

[Section103]

At least no one chose "I Don't Care"....yet

Duuuude. That's Babe Ruth. ;)

[jboosted92]

At least no one chose "I Don't Care"....yet

anyone read any of Joe D.'s biograhphies? i wonder if he would have mentioned, the 1st time he met ruth...

[ChiefBenderForever]

The ear experts should be able to tell, perfect ear shot to compare. I think it might be him.

[Mr. Mitt]

Really not sure. The mouth, eyes and eyebrows sure do have his features. That said, I'm skeptical because if it were him, the experience of meeting Ruth during his teen years would have surfaced in some later interview.

[barrysloate]

It's not clear that if that is Joe he actually met Ruth. Given the size of the crowd, he may have done no more than get close to him. That would have been fun but not memorable enough to document in an interview or biography. If you were walking down the street and saw a celebrity pass by, you might make note of it but not consider it a memorable experience.

[Anthony S.]

I say no. For starters, Joe had a significant gap between his two front teeth that this kid doesn't have. Also, the kid's nose isn't very prominent, it seems almost pugg-ish compared to Joe's long nose. Big noses tend to appear more exaggerated in kids than adults, not the other way around.

The ears I will leave to the master.

Also, San Francisco had about 750,000 people in the 1930's. There would have been about 150,000 kids that would have killed to see Babe Ruth.

[D. Bergin]

Only Joe's mother knows for sure. ;)

[Anthony S.]

I'm wondering if the kid two rows behind the "dimaggio kid" and slightly to the left (you can't see the kid's mouth, just his hat, round head and close set eyes) was the basis for Charlie Brown.

[kkkkandp]

I suppose it all depends on how one defines the word "met," but according to the book <u>Mickey Mantle: America's Prodigal Son</u> Joe Dimaggio didn't meet Babe Ruth until after Babe's career was over and Joe's was just starting.

Of course, the book could be wrong, too, but the source of the quote was DiMaggio's biographer, so it is likely to be accurate.

http://tinyurl.com/ygx3anz

[M's_Fan]

I'm having a bit of trouble identifying which kid you think is Joe (they are all wearing a cap!). Perhaps you could circle the kid on the picture so its clear we are looking at the same kid?

[ethicsprof]

i want it to be joe so i'm voting yes.
best,
barry

[Jim VB]

I'm having a bit of trouble identifying which kid you think is Joe (they are all wearing a cap!). Perhaps you could circle the kid on the picture so its clear we are looking at the same kid?

.

[bmarlowe1]

Please post "Joe" at hi-res (at least 300-600 DPI) - a definitive answer may be possible here.
-----------

Edit - never mind. Ear mismatch, for certain not him.

[barrysloate]

How can you tell it's an ear mismatch from such a very tiny image? And maybe Joe had an ear job- kids do it all the time!:)

[D. Bergin]

I think I see Jamie Moyer.

[Jim VB]

I think I see Jamie Moyer.

Don't fool yourself. Moyer was no kid back then. I think he's driving the second car.

[slidekellyslide]

Is Moyer playing this year? I'm trying to keep track of major leaguers who are older than me and Moyer may be the last one. I recall when Gregg Jeffries started his MLB career and he was the first player who was younger than me. It will be a sad day when all of MLB is younger than me. :(

[Robextend]

Yea he is playing, in fact he is the Phillies 5th starter.

[slidekellyslide]

Good...anyone know who the next oldest is? Randy Johnson retired last year right?

[Anthony S.]

Jamie Min-Moyer-oso tossed 6 2/3 scoreless frames in a 3-0 win over the Yankees on Friday night.

[Robextend]

Wakefield is the oldest in the AL at 42. I am not sure if John Smoltz is considered active, I think he is 42 as well.

[bmarlowe1]

How can you tell it's an ear mismatch from such a very tiny image?

I blew it up. It still is not as clear as I would like - but the ear shape looks way different. I suppose it's possible that the jpeg compression could be doing something weird to the image - if Jimmy can post it in better res - I would be happy to post a side by side comparison to the real Joe D.

[Jim VB]

Wakefield is the oldest in the AL at 42. I am not sure if John Smoltz is considered active, I think he is 42 as well.

I don't want to hijack this thread further, so I'm starting a new one on this topic. (Then we can hijack that one and I don't care.)

[thekingofclout]

I blew it up. It still is not as clear as I would like - but the ear shape looks way different. I suppose it's possible that the jpeg compression could be doing something weird to the image - if Jimmy can post it in better res - I would be happy to post a side by side comparison to the real Joe D.

I wish it was my photo so I could post a better scan, but I just lifted it from a thread that I started a couple of days ago that Hawaiian Dave posted, and he lifted it from Lelands.

It sold for something like $33,000 a few years back! Ya know, if two well to do bidders both felt strongly or had some kind of proof that it was Joe D. in the picture, then that would certainly explain the price realized. It's a great image on it's own merit, but I thought it would go for about $1500 at the time.

Off hand, does anyone know if there were any teenage photos of Joe that came from Hunts? It seems logical to me that there might have been some grouped in a lot.

Dave also made a good observation that the little guy right next to "Joe" resembles his kid brother Dom. The kid does have that chipmunk (for lack of a better word) kinda face that Dom had. I really don't think it's that big of stretch that it is Joe D.

I know my face changed some in a five year period from 14 to 19. Hell, I think most do. We're still growing from boys into young men at that time. Also, teeth do get jarred loose, wisdom teeth grow in, some fall out or get knocked out. I dunno, maybe one of our resident Dentist can shed some light about that.

Anyway, just some thoughts to ponder...

[bijoem]

I voted "I don't know".....

It is either him - or someone who looks a lot like him.

[ullmandds]

Id say a large diastema(space between Joe D's two upper front teeth) would NOT develop from age 14-19...it would have been apparent by this time...unless he had braces to create this space!:)

[barrysloate]

I knew a dentist could explain the lack of a gap between his teeth. I say it's Joe.

[ullmandds]

Barry...joe who?

[barrysloate]

I don't know...I forgot.:confused:

[Jim VB]

I knew a dentist could explain the lack of a gap between his teeth. I say it's Joe.

Barry,

I think Peter just voted that it's NOT Joe D. and you agreed with him that it IS Joe D.

Did I get that correct?

[barrysloate]

Oops...you're right Jim. I thought Peter meant the gap would have formed later. Let's drop the whole thing.:(

[ullmandds]

While it looks kinda like Joe D...I vote for Joe Schmo!

[Kawika]

Dave also made a good observation that the little guy right next to "Joe" resembles his kid brother Dom. The kid does have that chipmunk (for lack of a better word) kinda face that Dom had.
I wasn't kidding about the kid maybe being Dominic. It looks like he's wearing those same round eyeglasses he had in all his cards. Are they the Dimaggios? Not likely by the sound of things on this thread, but it would be tres cool if they were.
My dear departed Dad was a San Francisco Mission kid who would have been a contemporary of all these lads, very well might have known some of them. (Never mentioned he saw Babe Ruth though). The photo haunts me.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/family/whodaguy/websize/05%201938%20Hugh%20McDonald_%20Merchant%20Marine_% 20Honolulul%20bound.jpg

[slidekellyslide]

Do we know the location of this photo?

[wonkaticket]

http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/isthisjoeD%20copy.jpg

Sure looks like a young Joe.

Not sure you guys noticed but there's a guy who looks just like Barry? :confused:


But that couldn't be unless he's the Highlander??

[calvindog]

LOLOLOL! I think that is Barry -- and considering Barry's age today that definitely could be him. But did he have a beard at age 8?

[wonkaticket]

LOLOLOL! I think that is Barry -- and considering Barry's age today that definitely could be him. But did he have a beard at age 8?

It's worse than we thought Jeff...

http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/small/mayo%20sloate.jpg

[Anthony S.]

That's great. The way the Barry photoshop fits so seemlessly into the Ruth photo reminds me of the movie "Zelig" when Woody Allen steps into the on deck circle as Ruth (or is Gehrig?) bats.

[Leon]

That's some great stuff....

[barrysloate]

You guys have no mercy!:eek:

[barrysloate]

Carlton Hendricks is betting a rib eye steak on the memorabilia side that it is Joe DiMaggio. I posted how amazed I am that we have so many people for and against this identification. We've had many photos on the board where nearly everyone is in agreement. Here is one that has the board split, not quite fifty-fifty but maybe 40-60. Still, that is pretty unusual.

[bmarlowe1]

I wish it was my photo so I could post a better scan.......It sold for something like $33,000 a few years back!
.........I really don't think it's that big of stretch that it is Joe D......
I know my face changed some in a five year period from 14 to 19.

If that price was realized based on that guy being Joe D. - the buyer almost certainly made a bad mistake, as it almost certainly is not him. That guy is more than old enough to compare his ear to that of an adult Joe D. - and as far as I can see, they do not match.

If I was advising a client on that photo - I would say only pay enough for the Babe Ruth part. If I was asked to authenticate it as being Joe D. - I would not.

[Anthony S.]

Found this photo online. Pretty much the same angle. Let the ear analysis begin. To my fledgling photo analytic eye they look quite different.

[bmarlowe1]

Hey Anthony - that is the same comparison photo I used -- and you are right.

[David W]

If it's my photo - 100% guarantee it's Joe D

If I'm trying to buy the photo - 100% guarantee it's not Joe D

Since I'm neither - I'm not sure.

[barrysloate]

Ears, schmears...it's Joe D.!;)

[bmarlowe1]

Then it must be Barry's photo.

[MVSNYC]

no, not Joe D. that is a very famous photo, that has been seen by millions for 80+ years. IF that was Joe D, i think someone would have mentioned this before...9 times out of 10, these "is this X in the photo" threads proove to be false.

i have a Joe D. biography at home, i'll see if there is any mention of this "meeting".


p.s. the ears, nose, mouth & eye brows are different.

[wonkaticket]

Mike can you at least confirm if that's Barry or not?

[MVSNYC]

the nostril structure and sinister look, differ from Barry's. i'd have to say it is not him, although the kid 2" to his left, has similar hair. ;)

p.s. Wonka- you owe me a call! it's been way too long.

[wonkaticket]

Agree I do owe you a call...agree with you most likely not Barry. Besides could you imagine the value of a Ruth/Sloate photo! :D

[barrysloate]

:)

[brickyardkennedy]

I think the guy with the sailor's(?) cap is Bing Crosby.

[rc4157]

Just saw this thread today, this is one of the reasons I love Net54.
Barry, you get no mercy on this site at times.:)
It would be great if it was Joe D. but I have to go along with those that say it isn't the Clipper.
RC

[barrysloate]

I know Richard. They kick me around like an old dish rag!:(

[slidekellyslide]

no, not Joe D. that is a very famous photo, that has been seen by millions for 80+ years. IF that was Joe D, i think someone would have mentioned this before...9 times out of 10, these "is this X in the photo" threads proove to be false.

i have a Joe D. biography at home, i'll see if there is any mention of this "meeting".


p.s. the ears, nose, mouth & eye brows are different.

I've read just about every Joe D. biography out there and there is NO mention of him meeting Ruth as a youngster.

[cincicards]

16339

[thekingofclout]

I've read just about every Joe D. biography out there and there is NO mention of him meeting Ruth as a youngster.

Dan. It could very well be Joe in that photo but it doesn't mean he met the Babe. Take a look at that crowd! Also, Joe was always a very private person not wishing to share his personal life with hardly anyone.

Williams was proud to tell all that the Babe was his Idol and that his goal in life was to be noted as "the best hitter there ever was."

But Joe D was a quiet leader, more like Gehrig. And you can't possibly argue with TEN World Series in 13 seasons...and winning NINE. Joe never had to tell people how good he was, everyone simply understood it.

[slidekellyslide]

Certainly someone knows where this photo was taken don't they? If it's San Fran I will concede there is a chance it could be Joe...if it's anywhere else there is ZERO chance that it's him.

[bmarlowe1]

If the photo was taken on Joe D's back yard - it's still not him.

[ChiefBenderForever]

That does look like Dom next to him. Surprised no one mentioned Shirley Temple in the upper right hand back.

[Kawika]

First guy to venture Joe Jackson gets kicked in the balls by Andrew at the National.
Dan: Here is a link to the Leland's auction listing (November '07): http://tinyurl.com/yauvh4a As you can see the description is pretty thin, with no mention of location at all. I cut the photo from the cover of the catalog and chucked the rest whilst housekeeping so cannot compare the catalog text to that online. I would have expected the description to have been more informative considering the inherent interest in the piece. Maybe someone has an intact catalog and can compare?? Prior to this thread I did not know it was supposed to have been San Francisco; someone else said SF based on whatever knowledge they have and I have just been going along with that.

[thekingofclout]

First guy to venture Joe Jackson gets kicked in the balls by Andrew at the National.
Dan: Here is a link to the Leland's auction listing (November '07): http://tinyurl.com/yauvh4a As you can see the description is pretty thin, with no mention of location at all. I cut the photo from the cover of the catalog and chucked the rest whilst housekeeping so cannot compare the catalog text to that online. I would have expected the description to have been more informative considering the inherent interest in the piece. Maybe someone has an intact catalog and can compare?? Prior to this thread I did not know it was supposed to have been San Francisco; someone else said SF based on whatever knowledge they have and I have just been going along with that.

Barry said it was taken in San Fran and that the age of the kid shown and Joe D would be approximately the same.

[brickyardkennedy]

Well, according to this:

Title:
Babe Ruth Surrounded By Fans
Caption: American baseball player Babe Ruth (1895 - 1948) (born George Herman Ruth Jr, center in straw hat) poses with a crowd of young fans, New York, New York, 1922. (Photo by Robert Riger/Getty Images)

http://tinyurl.com/yk2ezjt

[Kawika]

Good night everyone. You've been a great crowd. Drive home safely.

[slidekellyslide]

Uh...that settles it right there. Not Joe. DiMaggio was 8 years old when that photo was snapped....and nowhere near New York.

[Matt]

Mark is correct yet again.

To a certain extent, I feel like when we speculate on photo IDs, its analogous to folks hawking a T206 Wagner as authentic, knowing little about cards. Mark is a trained expert in photo identification and while we can look at a photo with our untrained eyes and hazard a guess, Mark is an expert.

[bmarlowe1]

Fascinating so far. As of 9:00 we have 7 yes, 7 no, and 5 unsure....different eyes see things differently.

If people depend on the inherent facial recognition circuitry in the brain (a specific area known as the fusiform gyrus) - you will get just that kind of mixed poll result seen here. That speaks to the high unreliability of doing it that way.

The fusiform gyrus is quite amazing, it's like magic - it allows one to recognize faces without actually memorizing them. Try recognizing people by their ears - it can be done, but it requires a substantial mental effort and memorization. If you meet Barry, you don't have to consciously memorize his face - it's all magically automatic.

The problem is, the fusiform gyrus is easily fooled. That's why quite a number of people have made a living imitating Geo. W. Bush. So here's another poll - which of these guys is the real W? (note - this choice of subject reflects no political intent :D - there are just so many of these guys).

[3-2-count]

Mark,
My vote is none of em' are.

[slidekellyslide]

What? No Will Ferrell? This thread needed to end on some cowbell.

[bmarlowe1]

Here you go -

[Anthony S.]

Chili Peppers drummer on the left

edited to add: also him on the right

[slidekellyslide]

Guy on the left looks familiar...is he a golfer?

[thekingofclout]

If people depend on the inherent facial recognition circuitry in the brain (a specific area known as the fusiform gyrus) - you will get just that kind of mixed poll result seen here. That speaks to the high unreliability of doing it that way.

The fusiform gyrus is quite amazing, it's like magic - it allows one to recognize faces without actually memorizing them. Try recognizing people by their ears - it can be done, but it requires a substantial mental effort and memorization. If you meet Barry, you don't have to consciously memorize his face - it's all magically automatic.

The problem is, the fusiform gyrus is easily fooled. That's why quite a number of people have made a living imitating Geo. W. Bush. So here's another poll - which of these guys is the real W? (note - this choice of subject reflects no political intent :D - there are just so many of these guys).

Allright Mark, I'll take you on your word about all of that. Wow, that is way over my head. I'm nowhere near smart enough to understand what ever it is you just said! :confused:

However, I've run the Blackjack section at Commerce Casino here in LA where we have more table games than any casino in the world, and where more than 8,000 people play in our casino everyday.

Since 1987 I've met maybe several hundred thousand people and probably know 10,000 -15,000 of them by name, and not once, have I ever recognized anyone by their ears. Just not practical in the real world.

So I guess that my "fusiform gyrus" isn't as easily fooled as the next guy. Which is very lucky for me or I wouldn't have a job...;)


My best regards, Jimmy

[barrysloate]

Well, somewhere in the recesses of my mind I thought I read that the photo was taken in San Francisco in 1931. I don't know where that came from, but that's what I recalled. If it is in fact New York in 1922, well.......:(

[thekingofclout]

Well, somewhere in the recesses of my mind I thought I read that the photo was taken in San Francisco in 1931. I don't know where that came from, but that's what I recalled. If it is in fact New York in 1922, well.......:(

It made for one hell of a thread! Also, it showed that at times we can successfully start threads (especially a Poll) simultaneously on both boards. :)

[barrysloate]

Jimmy- the most fascinating part was how split the board was. It just goes to show how difficult photo identification is, and why we should be skeptical when someone finds a 19th century cabinet of a guy with a handlebar mustache and assumes it must be Tim Keefe.

And that kid still looks like Joe D. to me, even though it is not.

[Ladder7]

"Do you think I could buy some pot from you?".. How I feel after reading Mark's post.

[bmarlowe1]

...So I guess that my "fusiform gyrus" isn't as easily fooled as the next guy. Which is very lucky for me or I wouldn't have a job...;)

But it was fooled on the photo under discussion. That's why I always push for a different approach to this.

[Anthony S.]

Didn't Fusiform Gyrus release "Bells, Boots, and Shambles?"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYqsHdQACfE&feature=related

[3and2]

Well, this was a fun thread. I enjoyed the poll and the comments throughout.

[ElCabron]

How are you guys not recognizing Josh Gibson? Gibson is right there next to Joe Jackson and Ty Cobb and right in front of Joe D.

All of them are clearly in this photo. Or none of them. Those should be the two choices for the poll.

-Ryan

[bmarlowe1]

Before I forget -

Tony is right - none of the three are Bush, and Anthony is correct - neither photo is Will Ferrell - they are both drummer Chad Smith.

[Jim VB]

Before I forget -

Tony is right - none of the three are Bush, and Anthony is correct - neither photo is Will Ferrell - they are both drummer Chad Smith.

At least it WAS a picture of Barry... wasn't it?

[barrysloate]

I can authenticate that one. For better or worse, it's me.:)