View Full Version : Vintage Trimmed/Altered Cards...whats the future hold?
jboosted92
03-19-2010, 01:50 PM
Im torn.
Need your guys opinions on the matter.
How do we judge what the value is of this cards for the future?
For example, i see pre-war cards, that if not "trimmed" would grade in the 6-8 categories.
Ex...If a 6-8 grades out at a value between 4,000 and 17,000...how do we judge the true value of a slightly "trimmed" card"?
How will the collecting public view it ,5, 10 20 years from now?
Is now a great time to get these at a good price, because of time/rarity of high quality cards, trimmed or not?
Would love to hear your guys feedback...as its always great to hear!~
I can't speak to the future, but I have several trimmed cards in my collection. I find them a great way to get the eye appeal of a NR-MT card at a fraction of the cost.
Bicem
03-19-2010, 02:16 PM
I can see the future... less emphasis on the number grade, more tolerance for alterations.
bigtrain
03-19-2010, 02:16 PM
Years ago, I bought a 34 Goudey #37 Lou Gehrig. My favorite card of all time. It had the appearance of an ex-mt card, beautiful color clean front and back. When PSA sent it back as trimmed, I was devastated. The guy who sold it to me was in the wind and I was pissed. I guess I was a purist in those days. I sold it for a few hundred bucks. I am much less picky today and selling that Gehrig has become my biggest regret as a collector. As long as I know what I am getting, trimmed cards can be fine.
T206Collector
03-19-2010, 02:33 PM
I can see the future... less emphasis on the number grade, more tolerance for alterations.
I think just the opposite. One of the main drivers of the grading phenomenon was the ability to weed out (most of) the hard-to-detect alterations. As long as grading becomes more and more popular, trimming and other alterations stand to get less and less tolerable.
HRBAKER
03-19-2010, 02:40 PM
I think just the opposite. One of the main drivers of the grading phenomenon was the ability to weed out (most of) the hard-to-detect alterations. As long as grading becomes more and more popular, trimming and other alterations stand to get less and less tolerable.
There is a difference between nefarious alterations done to deceive and obviously altered cards and their level of acceptance by collectors in general.
barrysloate
03-19-2010, 02:44 PM
Collectors will accept trimmed cards if they look nice, are clearly identified, and are cheap. Otherwise, they hold little appeal.
jcmtiger
03-19-2010, 02:53 PM
Myself, I don't like trimmed cards and don't buy them unless really necessary. I do have an authentic Old Judge though.:D
Joe
T206Collector
03-19-2010, 03:22 PM
There is a difference between nefarious alterations done to deceive and obviously altered cards and their level of acceptance by collectors in general.
Maybe in form, but not substance. Either way they will always command a very small percentage of the value of the card in its unaltered state.
cozmokramer
03-19-2010, 03:25 PM
I have a pretty big collection and stay away from trimmed cards.
My one exception are my 500 or so trimmed Old Judges.
teetwoohsix
03-19-2010, 03:28 PM
When I see a trimmed or altered T206 for sale,most of the time I move right past it without much thought.Some people don't mind them,but I do.I agree that there a lot of trimmed cards with great eye appeal,but I can't bring myself to purchase one.
The exception for me would probably be "the big 6 " of the T206 set-strictly due to not being able to afford one that pulled a numerical grade.
Or,cards so rare it doesn't matter the grade-as long as it's authentic-period.
But why buy a T206 common with an "A" when it's not that costly to buy that same T206 common in a V/G range?
To each his/her own..........
Regards,Clayton
HRBAKER
03-19-2010, 03:38 PM
Maybe in form, but not substance. Either way they will always command a very small percentage of the value of the card in its unaltered state.
Maybe, but I am talking about a pure collecting standpoint. Some people would rather have a slightly trimmed EXMTish looking card rather than a full bordered one with a tack hole in it or multiple nasty looking creases. I do agree that altered cards for the most part will always sell for a fraction of their full-bodied counterparts.
HRBAKER
03-19-2010, 03:42 PM
And further, despite what we think we probably all have more altered cards than we think we do.
jboosted92
03-19-2010, 03:47 PM
And further, despite what we think we probably all have more altered cards than we think we do.
Altered...
I dont want to dramatize here, but isnt every card "altered" that isnt Mint?
I mean, its either altered by nature, time, handling, or on purpose, but in the end...its altering its original "cut"...
would it better server the PSAs and SGC's to lessen the grade for lets say "trimming" and say - 2
or filling of coloring - 2
just a thought...
...Some people would rather have a slightly trimmed EXMTish looking card rather than a full bordered one with... multiple nasty looking creases.
I'm one of those.
T206Collector
03-19-2010, 03:55 PM
Maybe, but I am talking about a pure collecting standpoint. Some people would rather have a slightly trimmed EXMTish looking card rather than a full bordered one with a tack hole in it or multiple nasty looking creases.
Of course, but isn't more likely that the "slightly trimmed EXMTish looking card" was the one that was trimmed nephariously?
HRBAKER
03-19-2010, 04:02 PM
Of course, but isn't more likely that the "slightly trimmed EXMTish looking card" was the one that was trimmed nephariously?
I'm not talking about a micro-trim but rather a card that has been on a obvious diet.
jboosted92
03-19-2010, 04:11 PM
I'm not talking about a micro-trim but rather a card that has been on a obvious diet.
would that be like the left or the right bottom cut into, so as to get it in a sheet...
like this one?
http://www.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-bin/showitem.pl?itemid=19782
HRBAKER
03-19-2010, 04:22 PM
would that be like the left or the right bottom cut into, so as to get it in a sheet...
like this one?
http://www.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-bin/showitem.pl?itemid=19782
Maybe somethng a little more obvious like this one. But your example is interesting. It is @ $700 already + Buyer's Premium, the VCP avg. for a PSA1 of the same card is $718.
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s172/hrbaker/BST/bender.jpg
jboosted92
03-19-2010, 04:24 PM
Maybe somethng a little more obvious like this one. But your example is interesting. It is @ $700 already + Buyer's Premium, the VCP avg. for a PSA1 of the same card is $718.
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s172/hrbaker/BST/bender.jpg
look at these 2! explain this one
http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=3879
teetwoohsix
03-19-2010, 04:29 PM
Hey Jeff-Isn't that Bender card a hand cut card?
In the case of hand cut cards,that would also be an exception for me to buy a card with an "A" on it........
Many collectors feel good about having trimmed cards in their possession, especially those T206s graded PSA 7, 8 and 9 :rolleyes:
whycough
03-19-2010, 05:33 PM
See my post on PSA Authentic--Authentics should have a reason for card being so degignated. Then we all can make a better decision for ourselves. A killer eye-appeal card with a slight trim is much more appealing than a PSA 1 that looks like it was in the spokes of a bike.
whycough
03-19-2010, 05:35 PM
Hey, tbob. Don't kid yourself: I'm sure quite a few altered cards reside in SGC holders also.
teetwoohsix
03-19-2010, 05:46 PM
I guess if you are buying a trimmed/altered card to fill holes in your collection and do not care much about it from an investment point of view,go for it.
If you look at your cards as an investment,you may want to realize that your return down the road may not be much with trimmed/altered cards.I don't think trimmed/altered cards are going to somehow become more valuable in the future than they are now-just my opinion.
HRBAKER
03-19-2010, 05:52 PM
I guess if you are buying a trimmed/altered card to fill holes in your collection and do not care much about it from an investment point of view,go for it.
If you look at your cards as an investment,you may want to realize that your return down the road may not be much with trimmed/altered cards.I don't think trimmed/altered cards are going to somehow become more valuable in the future than they are now-just my opinion.
I wouldn't disagree with that. Some say the most expensive card in the hobby is altered.
HRBAKER
03-19-2010, 05:53 PM
Hey Jeff-Isn't that Bender card a hand cut card?
In the case of hand cut cards,that would also be an exception for me to buy a card with an "A" on it........
It's hand cut alright but it shouldn't be. :D
teetwoohsix
03-19-2010, 05:56 PM
That's funny Jeff :D,,I've never trimmed a card before,but I think I could do a better job than that :D:D
FUBAR
03-19-2010, 06:19 PM
maybe the guy who trimmed it was on a "BENDER"
(ok this one is weak, but its the best i got)
ullmandds
03-19-2010, 06:33 PM
Personally...I really don't like trimmed cards...I have 1 or 2 in my collection...but I plan to sell them soon. I'd much rather have a g-vg in presentable shape...than an ex-mt looking hack job...to each their own.
Hey, tbob. Don't kid yourself: I'm sure quite a few altered cards reside in SGC holders also.
I agree. I used the PSA 7, 8 and 9 T206s as an example because a lot of suspicious looking beauties made their way in to PSA holders before SGC was off and running in pre-war cards.
JamesGallo
03-19-2010, 11:34 PM
I think it depends on the card. I think for common stuff I would just prefer a nice grade card, however if money was tight then having some pretty looking cards might be a better way to go.
On rare and highly desirable stuff I see these cards increasing in value and demand, but I don't see them ever getting higher then the G-VG price of an unaltered card. When you can buy a card for 1000-2000 that looks like and 8-10K card it opens the market up to more people. Regardless to what people may think there are A LOT more people able and willing to spend 1-2K on a card then 8-10K.
Recently I think the altered T206 Wagner and Planks have proven this.
James G
jboosted92
03-20-2010, 12:02 PM
I think it depends on the card. I think for common stuff I would just prefer a nice grade card, however if money was tight then having some pretty looking cards might be a better way to go.
On rare and highly desirable stuff I see these cards increasing in value and demand, but I don't see them ever getting higher then the G-VG price of an unaltered card. When you can buy a card for 1000-2000 that looks like and 8-10K card it opens the market up to more people. Regardless to what people may think there are A LOT more people able and willing to spend 1-2K on a card then 8-10K.
Recently I think the altered T206 Wagner and Planks have proven this.
James G
i wonder how the value will follow hte graded cards..
for example like the ruth goudey....not the rarest card, but high demand..
if the EXt-NM, grows in value over the next 10-15 years to lets say $12,000-$14,000.....the altered version....$2,000? $3,000? $4,000?
how does it follow?