Coupons, Cycles, and CB's Oh My:)

[Pup6913]

Could this be the Coupon explaination? That 2 different companies made the Coupons.

1911-05-29: SCOTUS: "Trustbusters" break up American Tobacco Co. US Supreme Court dissolves Duke's trust as a monopoly and in violation of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act (1890). The major companies to emerge are: American Tobacco Co., R.J. Reynolds, Liggett & Myers Tobacco Company (Durham, NC), Lorillard and British-American Tobacco (BAT). RJ Reynolds says, "Now watch me give Buck Duke hell." BAT is listed on the London Stock Exchange.
Liggett & Myers was given about 28 per cent of the cigarette market:
Piedmont
Fatima
American Beauty
Home Run
Imperiales
Coupon
King Bee
Fatima (the only 15 Turkish blend
and the cheap straight domestic brands.


P. Lorillard received 15 per cent of the nation's business:
Helmar
Egyptian Deities
Turkish Trophies
Murad
Mogul
and all straight Turkish brands


American Tobacco retained 37 per cent of the market:
Pall Mall, its expensive all-Turkish brand, named for a fashionable London street in the 18th century where "pall-mall" (a precursor to croquet) was played.
Sweet Caporal
Hassan
Mecca


R. J. Reynolds received no cigarette line but was awarded 20 per cent of the plug trade.


Here is a link to the whole page: http://www.tobacco.org/resources/history/Tobacco_History20-1.html

[toppcat]

What second company was making Coupons-only see one in your post

[Pup6913]

ATC made them before being broke up in 1911. 1910 was when the type 1's were printed. So another company printed them in the Type 2 and 3 series. From what this says anyways:confused:

[drdduet]

Coupon Type 1 was issued by American Tobacco Company,

Coupon 2 and 3 by Liggett and Meyers.

What does that mean? It means Coupon type 1 is produced by the same company as the rest of the T206 brands and that Coupon type 2 & 3 are produced by a different company.

[judsonhamlin]

Is the situation then akin to Topps trotting out the Bowman name in the late '80's? Same name, different manufacturer...
So should we look at the Type I Coupons as part of the ATC/T206 issue, but the Type II and III cards as a separate issue, rather than an extension of T206, marketed by an entirely different entity? That would seem to make sense. It would also be consistent with how we view the E92/101/102 groups (facially similar, but as near as we can tell, issued by different companies).
I think this also gives some further strength to the lumping of T213-II and T214, as they were both Liggett & Myers brands at the time of issue and would be akin to Piedmont/Sweet Cap as two parts of T206.
And, my guess is that SCOTUS trumps Burdick.

[tedzan]

I am reiterating this post in order to drive it thru to anyone who thinks these cards were produced elsewhere than NYC.

Liggett & Myers was based in Durham, NC (Factory #42). That should sound familiar to you, as the 1911 PIEDMONT's,
SWEET CAP's and AMERICAN BEAUTY's cigarettes were produced there. The T206 cards associated with these brands....
WERE PRINTED AT AMERICAN LITHOGRAPHIC IN NEW YORK CITY.

Similarly, COUPON's Type 1, 2 & 3 cards....WERE PRINTED AT AMERICAN LITHOGRAPHIC IN NEW YORK CITY.

Not in New Orleans, nor North Carolina, nor elsewhere....PLEASE try to understand this.


Please read the following again.

The American Lithographic Co. (ALC) was the America's "lithography giant " in the late 19th & early 20th Century.
Jame Buchanan Duke of American Tobacco Co. (ATC) and ALC founder, Joseph Knapp, were very close friends and
businessmen. All sports, non-sports, and related ATC product's premiums from 1909 to 1919 were printed within this
building in NYC.

This structure still exists in NYC at the corner of South Park Ave. & 20th Street. Nowadays, its 13 floors consist of
professional offices.

<img src="http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd339/tz1234zaz/americanlithographicbldg.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

At ALC, all the ATC cards (and their cigarette packs) were printed from 1909 to 1919. Including the T205's you are fond
of. Yes, the T213, T214 and T215 cards were printed at ALC.
The COUPON Tobacco Co. in New Orleans (Factory #3) produced tobacco products. None of the various Factory's in the
ATC monopoly printed cards ! !

From ALC in NYC, the individual cards (and uncut sheets of cigarette packs) were shipped by rail to the various Factory's
in the ATC system.


TED Z

[drdduet]

Hi Ted,

I understand this since you originally discussed some years ago. My statement was "produced" not "printed." If your post was directed at my response, I wish to clarify that I understand this! Produced as I mean it, refers to the Company sponsoring the production.

[tedzan]

This re-posted post was not directed at you. It was specifically targeted to Andrew (and any others who still think the T-cards
were produced at the Tobacco factories scattered throughout America).

ATC had somewhere around 250 factories in the late 19th and early 20th Century. To think that each of these factory's had their
own lithographic printing apparatus is utter insanity. These factories were dedicated to producing Tobacco products, NOT BB cards.


TED Z

[Pup6913]

NO ted this has nothing to do with where it was printed but has to do with the possibility of why they vary from Coupon's Type 1's and the 2's and 3's from later. Also why some of these companies didn't get cards later.