1970 Dayton Daily News M137

[David Bender]

Here's a question, probably for Bob Lemke - why is the Dayton Daily News set considered baseball cards? They are just clipped out of the paper, right?
The Pirate Album series ran in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in 1975 - can these be considered cards as well?

Thanks, and I will hang up and take my answer off the air...

[Bob Lemke]

"Back in the day" when the Standard Catalog had two people working full-time, virtually unlimited page counts and the notion of building up a data base for non-card baseball player memorabilia for future catalogs, we routinely sought out this type of item.

Today, not so much.

If the need arises to cut back vintage pages on the print edition in the future, this type of lsiting would be among the first to go onto some sort of rotational publishing basis.

[David Bender]

Thanks Bob.

[Rich Klein]

The Dayton Daily News Items were considered part of the hobby in the mid 1970's. I could have sworn (I've been known to be wrong) that those items were catalogued as early as the 1st Sports Collectors Bible (c. 1975)

The other items; although similiar; were not included and it took for later generations to realize the similiarites.

And yes, Bob is correct; with the drain of manpower at both Krause (F&W) and Beckett, more and more items which may be borderline won't be catalogued and that's a legit issue of the "corporates" running hobby publications. Hobby people figured if you broke even and kept adding to data bases you were fine; corporates want the profit wherever they can. Neither side is wrong, but in a sense the hobby loses when option #2 is the one that is chosen.

Rich

[Bob Lemke]

When I joined Krause Publications in 1974, the company was run by two genuine coin collectors (Chet Krause and Cliff Mishler). While they did what was necessary to keep the lights on and maintain some modest growth, they also realized the value of investing in periodicals and, especially, reference catalogs that would assist the long-term growth of the hobby.

While some book titles and periodicals were home run right out of the gate, others were a drain on cash for many years but were subsidized "for the good of the hobby."

When non-collectors got control of the company the emphasis swtiched to polishing up the bottom line to attract the next higher-buyer.

I guess that's the way of the (business) world.

[paul]

I think one reason they were originally catalogued as cards is because they say "card" right on them. Kind of silly, but I would bet that was a huge factor for the writers of the Sports Collectors Bible and whoever else catalogued these.

[sportsinvestments]

Continuing on the discussion of the Dayton Daily News "cards", we just discovered two additional uncatalogued cards(we currently have them up on Ebay if you would like to see them pictured) that were put out in 1980 as a follow-up to the original 1970 set. The Dayton Daily News evidently did not want to continue on with the 160 card set so they agreed in 1980 to print one card per 100 years. So in 1980 they printed a Hank Aaron #3 representing their first 100 years(1880-1980) & the next day printed a David Lopes #998 representing their 2nd 100 years(1980-2080). The next card will be printed in 2080, that is if the Dayton Daily News is still around. Neither of these two cards have ever been discussed or catalogued.
Thanks, Adam

[ALR-bishop]

100 Year Cards....neat. Sort of like the 100 Year War....only it really lasted more than 100 years

[JLange]

Bob, I understand your explanation, and I accept that there are constraints on manpower, pagecount, etc., and I even accept that the catalog needs to find a way to be profitable. That said, I have always thought of the "Big Book" as THE Authority on Baseball Cards, NON-Card Baseball items, and a bunch of other stuff Baseball related. I can't stand to see the decisions to wack one set over another. As far as I'm concerned, if an item was meant to be cut out, saved, and collected, then it should be catalogued. At this point, I would be much more interested in a wikipedia approach where anyone can catalog what they have found, and experts among us can be the gatekeepers of this information. I think people have really come to rely on the information in the Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards as authoritative and comprehensive, or at least striving to be, and when you see sets left out, taken out, or only periodically rotated in, that turns the "Big Book" into just another book. I may be preaching to the choir, and I really respect the fact that you personnaly give life to a lot of these sets in your blog posts and catalog updates where able, but overall I see this as a frustrating topic.

[David W]

Were there variations of these "cards"?

I ask, because a few weeks back Ebay seller Tampabaycards had 2 different Don Gullett cards, both from 1970 I think.

The biography was different and the stats were different.

They can be tough to find, I've been looking for Lou Brock for a long time.

Also, this link says there is a #318 Willie Smith that is uncatalogued.

[ALR-bishop]

Good post Jason. It would make me sad to see the Big Book get smaller as well

[sschauer]

Were there variations of these "cards"?

I ask, because a few weeks back Ebay seller Tampabaycards had 2 different Don Gullett cards, both from 1970 I think.

The biography was different and the stats were different.

They can be tough to find, I've been looking for Lou Brock for a long time.

Also, this link says there is a #318 Willie Smith that is uncatalogued.

Yes there are variations I blogged about this set here http://uncatalogedbaseballcards.blogspot.com/2010/03/1970-1971-dayton-daily-news.html The set was really 1970-1971 I went through the Dayton Daily archives and visually cataloged each card. Brock is a difficult one issued in 71 only replacing Richie Allen also #80.

[Cliff Bowman]

I am nearly certain that the 1970 Dayton Daily News Bubble-Gumless baseball series was repeated in 1971 with the same players and numbers but with new photos and updated bios. The Ebay seller Tampa Bay Cards has several on Ebay now. Some have 1969 stats, which would make them 1970, and some have 1970 stats, which would make them 1971. The aforementioned two different Don Gullett cards are a 1970 version and a 1971 version, they are the same number but have different photos and different bios. I have a 1970 Ernie Banks and a 1971 Ernie Banks. Same numbers, but different photos and different bios.

[Cliff Bowman]

As usual, I am twenty minutes late :( . After reading Mr. sschauer's blog I now see that only some of the players were repeated in 1971. Thank you for printing the detailed checklist.

[Bob Lemke]

Jason,

You have to remember that the Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards is NOT published by hobbyists. It is published by a multi-national media giant strictly on a for-profit basis. If it can't be made profitable at a certain level determined by the publisher, it will cease to be published.

In this era of declining demand for ink-on-paper hobby references, increased sales are not likely, so profitability has to come from controlling costs, i.e., the number of pages printed.

As editor of the vintage sections, it is my responsibility, based on my daily participation in this niche of the hobby, to determine how best to use the number of pages allocated to those sections.

[stevegarveyfan]

Continuing on the discussion of the Dayton Daily News "cards", we just discovered two additional uncatalogued cards(we currently have them up on Ebay if you would like to see them pictured) that were put out in 1980 as a follow-up to the original 1970 set. The Dayton Daily News evidently did not want to continue on with the 160 card set so they agreed in 1980 to print one card per 100 years. So in 1980 they printed a Hank Aaron #3 representing their first 100 years(1880-1980) & the next day printed a David Lopes #998 representing their 2nd 100 years(1980-2080). The next card will be printed in 2080, that is if the Dayton Daily News is still around. Neither of these two cards have ever been discussed or catalogued.
Thanks, Adam

I'd like to add a little to the 100-year statement above. I have one of the 1980 David Lopes "cards". The text below the card indicates that the Dayton Daily News planned to run a card once every 100 years, but they were clever about it. The next one was not intended to run in 2080; rather, the smart alecks at the paper designated every day as the beginning of a unique 100-year period. I know only of the Aaron and Lopes, but I'm hoping they printed a lot more of these with different players. Not sure they did though.

I'd include a pic of the Lopes card, but I don't know how to upload the pic.

[DaClyde]

Fortunately, the Dayton Daily News is on Newspapers.com, so let's see what we can find.

The Hank Aaron was printed on June 2, 1980, and Lopes June 3. Doesn't look like there were any more.

[raulus]

While I do have one, mostly because it’s a required PSA master set item, I’m not a big fan. Certainly there will always be a question about where you draw the line with all of the different pieces out there. And it’s not always all that obvious whether any given item should be included, when it comes to this piece, it sure seems like this one probably should have been excluded.

[Fwoodford_34]

Great thread and a great, unique, set.

I personally think they’ve stuck around as a”set” due to being numbered, having a “front” and “back” and being promoted as a collectible set.

I prefer to fold them as intended - makes them feel more like a true card.

[mrmopar]

Can you share an image? Not sure I have seen these?
I absolutely love these newspaper "cards".
Have a wide variety of them and will buy any I can find at decent prices.

Fortunately, the Dayton Daily News is on Newspapers.com, so let's see what we can find.

The Hank Aaron was printed on June 2, 1980, and Lopes June 3. Doesn't look like there were any more.

[mrmopar]

When you start a post or reply, select the paperclip, then it opens up the other image. Choose image, upload and post the thread and the image should appear:

I'd like to add a little to the 100-year statement above. I have one of the 1980 David Lopes "cards". The text below the card indicates that the Dayton Daily News planned to run a card once every 100 years, but they were clever about it. The next one was not intended to run in 2080; rather, the smart alecks at the paper designated every day as the beginning of a unique 100-year period. I know only of the Aaron and Lopes, but I'm hoping they printed a lot more of these with different players. Not sure they did though.

I'd include a pic of the Lopes card, but I don't know how to upload the pic.

[DaClyde]

June 2, 1980
<a href="https://www.newspapers.com/clip/103738510/ddn-bubble-gumless-003-aaron-june-2-1980/" style="text-decoration: none;display:block;" target="_parent"><img src="https://img.newspapers.com/img/img?clippingId=103738510&amp;width=700&amp;height=758&amp;ts=1 607535806" alt="DDN Bubble Gumless 003 Aaron June 2 1980" style="max-width:100%;"><span style="display:block;font: 13px helvetica, sans-serif; color: #747474;padding: 4px 0;max-width: 700px;"><strong>DDN Bubble Gumless 003 Aaron June 2 1980</strong> 02 Jun 1980, Mon <em>Dayton Daily News (Dayton, Ohio)</em> Newspapers.com</span></a>

June 3, 1980
<a href="https://www.newspapers.com/clip/111288390/last-daily-news-bubble-gumless-card/" style="text-decoration: none;display:block;" target="_parent"><img src="https://img.newspapers.com/img/img?clippingId=111288390&amp;width=700&amp;height=1186&amp;ts= 1607535806" alt="Last Daily News Bubble-Gumless card." style="max-width:100%;"><span style="display:block;font: 13px helvetica, sans-serif; color: #747474;padding: 4px 0;max-width: 700px;"><strong>Last Daily News Bubble-Gumless card.</strong> 03 Jun 1980, Tue <em>Dayton Daily News (Dayton, Ohio)</em> Newspapers.com</span></a>

I wrote a blog post a few years ago about cards in newspapers that I update as I find more:

https://clydes-stalecards.blogspot.com/2011/03/baseball-cards-in-newspapers.html

[toppcat]

This is all great stuff. Not sure I realized the 1970 DDN cards also had other sports represented.