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View Full Version : Who would win this fight ?


ChiefBenderForever
01-14-2010, 08:22 PM
In their prime I feel like the two greatest boxers were Rocky Marciano and Mike Tyson, with Ali on the same par but give the edge to Rocky and Tyson as the toughest street fighters ever. If Marciano and Tyson fought who would win ? Who do you think had a harder punch ? I think it would be a bloodbath !

jheffron
01-14-2010, 10:22 PM
Have to go with speed of Tyson.

ChiefBenderForever
01-14-2010, 11:22 PM
Tyson was so fast, but Rocky was so tough and hit like a mack truck. For how small those two were it is unreal how tough they were, and how hard they hit. It's crazy to think how tough any boxer is. I used to think how long I could last in the ring with Tyson, if I could make it 15 seconds for a million dollars, or if it would even be worth it. And to take a punch from Rocky would be death. And then watching Ali bounce around the ring so graceful and then land a knock out punch, amazing !

Tsaiko
01-15-2010, 12:06 AM
The problem with these types of comparisons is that every boxer, or any athlete for that matter, stands on the shoulders of the decades of training/nutrition techniques that came before them. If Marciano had the benefit of knowing everything that was known in the 90's, he probably would have been even more skilled.

Also, if you're talking about boxers in a street fight, there really isn't any history of boxers in street fights, so there's no evidence to compare.
Boxing has a set of rules that fighters train for, street fights have no rules.

Exhibitman
01-15-2010, 11:24 AM
Which Tyson--pre or post prison? The pre-prison, Kevin Rooney-trained Tyson was phenomenal. He was shifty, slick and stunningly powerful. Physically, Tyson was a bigger man than Mrciano. Marciano was 5'11" and around 185-190. He had a very short reach. Tyson was 5'11.5" but roughly 20# heavier. Marciano was never the boxer Tyson was in the Rooney years. It would have been a great fight but I think Iron Mike would have won it. Another fellow I put right there in this class but who never gets mentioned is Joe Frazier. Watch the Ali fights, especially the Thrilla in Manila. Frazier's style and skill set are very similar.

I feel any boring-in style smaller man would have had trouble with some of the heavyweight behemoths of late, especially Lennox Lewis [6'5", 250# w/an 84" reach] as trained by Emanuel Steward. Lewis was the best at using size and his arm length jab to his advantage. You're talking a reach disadvantage for Marciano of nearly a foot and a half and 70+ pounds to a guy who isn't a slob like Carnera or Valuev. I don't think any of the small men would have gotten inside enough on Lewis to do real damage but would have gotten cut to pieces in the process of trying, much as Klitschko just cut up Arreola. I'd give them a puncher's chance. That's not to say that Lennox Lewis was the greatest of all time. It is simply that styles make matches. Joe Frazier could not handle George Foreman because he could not adapt his style to a banger like Big George. Ali handled Foreman by adopting defensive tactics to wear him out. Yet Frazier gave Ali fits. Ali versus Marciano or Tyson would have been very similar to Ali-Frazier.

Jack Dempsey would have been a good match for either of them given his ferocious, aggressive style--it would have been very entertaining. I'm not sure who'd have fared better facing the 1919-1920 version of Dempsey. The man was so hardened by that point, he was like a piece of iron. The way he busted up Willard leaves me thinking that he had a jackhammer punch too.

baseballfan
01-15-2010, 02:08 PM
i would take young mike tyson, but that would be a fight i owuld pay a lot to see

dennis
01-15-2010, 05:52 PM
tyson over rocky , but imo a young george foreman would beat both as easily as he did joe frazier.george foreman was a very bad man.

bobafett72
01-16-2010, 12:56 PM
Ditka.

ChiefBenderForever
01-16-2010, 01:32 PM
I didn't even think of George Foreman or Joe Frazier and need to learn about Jack Dempsey.

GoldenAge50s
01-16-2010, 04:38 PM
I don't think Tyson would be able to hold up to Rocky's punch! I like Rocky in a KO!

Exhibitman
01-16-2010, 07:14 PM
Ditka.

Chuck Norris could beat them all without even fighting back...

thescooper
01-18-2010, 10:55 PM
Henry Cooper was so ugly he would have scared them to death!!

Writehooks
01-19-2010, 09:13 AM
It doesn't matter, 'cuz Ali in his prime would cut the winner to ribbons inside of five rounds.

Marciano and Jack Dempsey are the two most over-rated heavyweight champions in history. Granted, both were superb punchers and Rocky consistently demonstrated an uncanny ability to absorb punishment, but to include either one in the upper tier of an all-time Top 10 ranking would be a stretch, IMO. Ditto for Tyson.

Marciano's 49-0 record is impressive until you realize he made only six title defences after winning the crown from ancient Jersey Joe Walcott in 1952. Three of those defences were against light heavyweights (Ezzard Charles twice, Archie Moore), and another was against unranked British champ Don Cockell. Dempsey likewise had his hands full with light heavyweights (two losses to Gene Tunney) and had only five successful title defences in six years against very pedestrian opposition the best being Tommy Gibbons.

For all his problems, Tyson was/is an astute student of ring history, which explains why he turned down a $50-million offer to fight comebacking George Foreman in 1989. Iron Mike's style was very similar to Joe Frazier's, and he knew what Foreman had done to Smokin' Joe (twice). The same fate would have awaited him.

The ultimate measure of any fighter is the quality of his opposition over an extended period of time. That's why Ali truly was/is The Greatest. The reality is that Dempsey, Marciano, Tyson and Joe Louis COMBINED didn't beat three champions as great as Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier and George Foreman all of whom Ali stopped.

Considering he was robbed of the three years that would've been the peak of his physical prowess, it's nothing short of astounding that Ali was able to come back and notch decisive wins over the likes of Frazier (twice), Foreman, Jerry Quarry (twice), Ken Norton (twice), Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers. The fact he was a shadow of his former self by the time he lost to Leon Spinks, Larry Holmes and Trevor Berbick in no way diminishes the quality of Ali's NINETEEN successful title defences.

For the record, here is my personal ranking of the all-time Top 10 heavies: 1. Muhammad Ali
2. Jack Johnson
3. George Foreman
4. Joe Louis
5. Sonny Liston
6. Larry Holmes
7. Lennox Lewis
8. Joe Frazier
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Rocky Marciano

ChiefBenderForever
01-19-2010, 06:34 PM
Writehooks you definately know your boxing and make some very impressive points but to say Ali would beat Rocky and Tyson is something I would disagree with. I think either one could knock Ali out, not saying it would happen, but if they each fought 3 times I don't think Ali would go undefeated against either.

cfc1909
01-19-2010, 10:40 PM
never got to see Rocky fights or films-just a few short clips. I have seen fights of most top heavyweeights and Tyson at his prime ( when he beat Berbick for the title) was unbeatable and still not at his best. There was still room for improvement.

Everyone thought Thomas would beat Tyson with his world class jab-I think Thomas was knocked out in the 7th or 8th round.

Holmes was 48-0 and said Marciano couldn't hold his jock. He lost the next two fights to Spinks and Tyson ended his career with one of the best one-twos ever seen in the ring.

Tyson beat Fergason ,Biggs, Thomas, Berbick and Smith and knocked out Ratliff with a jab. If he would have stayed focused and with Roney he would have been the graetest fighter ever. It happenes to most-when you win the title you lose a certain amount of hunger-I guess that is what seperates Rocky M.

I would have loved to seen him fight the best fighters in history-Frazier,Forman,Ali and Liston-it would have been like a hot knife through butter. Ali would have put up the best fight though because he would have talked to Mike through the fight and got in his head but in th eend Ali would have been KO ed just like the rest.

Exhibitman
01-20-2010, 09:23 AM
I agree that Marciano would have lost to Ali in his prime. Sorry, Rock fans, but you cannot hit what you cannot catch. Ali in his prime would have cut him apart beause of styles.

As far as Ali being the greatest ever, I defer to Burt Sugar, who ranks Joe Louis ahead of him. Perhaps he would have been the greatest of all had he not lost three years but perhaps Ted Williams would have hit 715 HRs and Bobby Feller would have won 375 games too. We will never know and we cannot base opinions on unknowable facts. Perhaps Louis would have been considered even greater had he fought a normal schedule instead of being in the Army in WW II. Frazier himself makes a very good point about Ali: "I don't mind people want to think Muhammad is the greatest fighter around,'' Frazier said. "Everybody wants to make him great because of his mouth, that he was the best. He was good, but that doesn't make him great. I proved that.'' Frazier went on to say that someone who lost to him and to Norton in his prime may not have even been the greatest of that time let alone all time.

BTW, Write Hooks, glad to see the props for Lennox Lewis on your list. I also rate him a lot higher than many others.

cfc1909
01-20-2010, 08:12 PM
2 Tyson fights on ESPN Classic right now 8 to 9 pm Eastern. Ferguson and Berbick