Buck Barker writing on card backs

[sb1]

Looking to see how many folks have cards with Buck's notes, stats and writing on the back. I know one sold on the BST a few weeks back. Please post if you have some. I am sure folks that just thought some kid wrote on their cards will be pleasantly surprised.

Scott

[barrysloate]

They are found mostly on the backs of Old Judges. I have a few right now, purchased from the last B & L Auction.:)

[sb1]

I used to have a lot of T207's with red ink info, and have encountered T205 & T206's as well.

[Leon]

They are found mostly on the backs of Old Judges. I have a few right now, purchased from the last B & L Auction.:)

If you only knew how to scan :confused:

All I can help out with is a stamp, which is fairly common.....he was a very prolific "stamper"...

.http://luckeycards.com/pm1014kauffbuckbarker.jpg

[barrysloate]

Leon- wouldn't the scans of the backs still be on your website? By the way, love the boxing card you pulled out of the Mecca pack. Looks like a 92!

[toppcat]

They are found mostly on the backs of Old Judges. I have a few right now, purchased from the last B & L Auction.:)

Barry-are you collecting cards again? I thought you had switched over to vintage books?

[barrysloate]

Not collecting cards, just selling a few. Here's a scan of one:

[Leon]

Leon- wouldn't the scans of the backs still be on your website? By the way, love the boxing card you pulled out of the Mecca pack. Looks like a 92!

Hey Barry
It was actually a bit exciting. I know it's not worth much but to open a pack of 100 yr old cigarettes and find a card in it, in pristine condition...just made my jaw drop for a second. I really couldn't believe it. The tax stamp on it had been broken but you could tell it had been in there forever. And I have no idea how long I have had that pack. I think the centering would hold it to an 8 but it is really that nice, even under magnification. I will see what I can do about other Buck scans from the site....You are correct on that one. Nice scan you posted though. take care

[Jacklitsch]

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5/jacklitsch1/Zeenuts/Z34or36Nitcholas.jpghttp://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5/jacklitsch1/Zeenuts/Z34or36NitcholasBack.jpg

[oaks1912]

Barry... I purchased Buck's Zeenut collection around '91, which consisted of more than 3000 different cards. While not all of the Zeenuts contained his notes, about half of them did. Steve's card above illustrates the shorthand that Buck used. In addition to identification of the player, many contained the complete list of teams the player was associated with, along with the source of the card, and the year Buck acquired the card. Quite a few customers (at the time) requested to have one of the various pioneering collectors noted on the backs. The collectors included Jeff Burdick, Bill Haber, Jim Horne, Lou Chericoni, Dick Dobbins, Larry Moe, John Spalding, Joe Vanacore and Frank Nagy. Virtually every intermediate to advanced Zeenut collection (more than 3000 different) will proudly contain some of Buck's cards. I occasionally see them recirculate, but they were all on my desk at one point. Since much of Buck's notes were done in pencil, I'm hoping that modern collectors refrain from erasing those notes, as they are a part of the hobby's history. The first names that most people take for granted in the checklists were tediously researched by Buck and a handful of other dedicated collectors. These cards with blank backs were Buck's "notebook"...

[barrysloate]

Mark- it's seems interesting that although a pioneer collector like Buck Barker probably never looked at baseball cards for their value, he would write on the backs of the cards. It would seem sacrosanct to do such a thing. But I guess he saw it differently.

[Steve D]

I no longer own the card, as I sold it in 1991 :(, but I had an N28 Mike Kelly with Buck Barker's address stamp (the same red one that Leon posted) on the back. I bought it from Lew Lipset back in the early 1980's.


Steve

[tbob]

I used to have many 1911 Obaks (red backs) with Barker's scribbling on the back about teams and positions but in trying to get a higher grade set, sold most of them, keeping only a couple for nostalgia sake. I also have several 1911 and 1912 Zeenuts with Barker's hand-scratchings on the back, showing he had a complex system of keeping track of the cards by numbers.

[bcornell]

http://t207.com/images/other/gleason.jpg http://t207.com/images/other/gleason_back.jpg

[tlwise12]

Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question but who is buck barker??? And do you guys think this card would qualify???

Thanks
Travis

[barrysloate]

Buck Barker was a legendary old time collector, and is considered a founding father of the hobby. And yes, the card you scanned once belonged to him.

[cfc1909]

that e107 is great

1167011671

[Leon]

"Staying Home tonight.....Happy New Year"

Sort of apropos on a few levels...

[rc4157]

In today's world, Buck's letter would have been an email and probably lost forever.

RC

[Rich Klein]

Was I ended up with Buck Barker's Post Cereal Card collection after he passed and several of the cards I sold had his signature on the back. I was young then, although reasonably into hobby history, and now realize I never should have sold ALL those cards but kept 1-2 for myself.

I do have some Buck Barker "archive' materials so if Leon ever wants to come over and scan some of them for the board he is welcome to do so. We'll save that project for early next year though :)

Rich

[brianp-beme]

The Old Judge cards shown on this thread have a completely different handwriting on the back than the Zeenut, E107 etc. cards shown that Mark M. has confirmed to be from Buck Barker. Check out the G's between the two. I have a ton of Buck's former cards...let's just say I have been a good customer of lower grade Z's from Mark for years. Maybe Mark can chime in on the Old Judge examples.

Brian

[barrysloate]

Someone just emailed me and said he did not think the writing on the back of the OJ's was Barker's. Do we have any consensus of opinion?

[sb1]

I studied this a bit this morning and it certainly does not appear the same. Buck tended to list the player and his stats, teams, position, last year in BB, etc.

Scott

[barrysloate]

Scott- you are probably correct, but there are so many Old Judges with a back notation similar to the two on this thread that one would think another important collector once owned them. Any thoughts?

[oaks1912]

Barry.... Based on what I've seen, Buck's cards had either the rubber stamp with his name / address or the detailed career notes in shorthand. The other cards with a set notation, or just numbers are inconsistent with anything that I've seen directly attributed to Buck. Buck was more about researching the player and providing a reference for himself. Our current understanding of series such as Old Judge, E-107, and Zeenuts benefitted greatly from his research...... I should also add that Buck was not the only longtime collector, or individual to write on the backs of his cards. Many cards which were handled by Frank Nagy had his unique handwriting on the back. The experienced PCL / Zeenut collectors will also be familiar with several 'fingerprint' collections that have turned up over the last 40 years . Not to bore the average reader, there are many collections which have turned up with unique markings, wear patterns, flaws, writing, etc. over the years. As Yogi Berra would say, Seeing these cards recirculate is like deja vu all over again.:)

[barrysloate]

Mark- the Old Judges with the ink notations are ubiquitous and have been around for years. Do you have any idea who did the notating?

[paul]

My 1919 Zeenut Paddy Driscoll has Barker's writing plus the designation "Houser 78 Dobbins 73." So, does that mean Barker purchased the card from Dick Dobbins in 1973, sold or traded it, then purchased the same card from a collector named Houser in 1978?

[cfc1909]

after taking a closer look the ojs are by the same person but not Buck...:eek:

[oaks1912]

Barry... The "G-58-9" designation is from the first volume of the World Tobacco Index in 1956 where the Goodwin photographic cards were divided into 7 sub categories. The further "-1" was for mixed subjects, baseball, athletics, actresses, celebrities. Small size.... The "List 1" is likely a reference to "CTL's" or Cartophilic Typed Listings which were reserved for large sets that were constantly being added to.... Almost like the current 'Old Judge" book released earlier this year, which has charted new additions since it came out (Note to Jay, Richard & Joe...You'll simply HAVE to do an update every year.... :)... )..... Not sure which collector inscribed those catalog numbers on the back, but I have seen numerous examples, in different handwriting, over the years. There were likely done sometime in the fifteen years between 1956 and 1970. By the time I became aware of Old Judges they were referred to as 172's. When the Sports Collectors Bible came out, they added an "N" to the designation

[Rich Klein]

My 1919 Zeenut Paddy Driscoll has Barker's writing plus the designation "Houser 78 Dobbins 73." So, does that mean Barker purchased the card from Dick Dobbins in 1973, sold or traded it, then purchased the same card from a collector named Houser in 1978?

The late Dave Houser, who edited "Who's Who" for many years in Baseball Hobby News and also wrote some great hobby columns for BHN. He is truly missed for his writing skills and his appreciation of the hobby, and the people.
If someone here who may have known him wants to chime in, please do so.

Rich

[barrysloate]

Thanks Mark, very interesting.

[oaks1912]

Rich..... I knew Dave Houser pretty well. He was an 'original' Zeenut collector back in the 30's. In the early 70's, he found his collection and contacted advanced collector Jim Horne with the original intent of selling the collection to Jim. As he & Jim talked about the collection, Dave's interest in the hobby was rekindled. He was not a person of financial means, but was genuinely interested in the players and the collectibles. In the late 70's Dave published "Sports West", which was a small, short-lived hobby publication, mostly targeting West Coast collectors and collectibles.. Dave loved to research and shared much of his knowledge through various articles. The subscription rates were the most unique scale I'd ever seen. You could send cash, or an adequate quantity of vintage baseball cards to cover your subscription. Beginning around 1977, Dave started to carpool with me to quite a few of our local Northern California shows, as he had no transportation and he lived in nearby San Leandro. He dropped out of circulation in the late 80's, and is now deceased. At the recent San Leandro show last month, a collage was made showing some of the faces from the show's 25 year history. I included a picture of Dave with our friend Lou Chericoni as a tribute to both of them...... Paul...I'm sorry I did not address your question earlier. I do recall a few of the Barker Zeenuts had multiple sources indicated on the back & I do not have a definitive answer. Your suggestion that the card was acquired from one collector, later traded, still later reacquired from another collector is plausible

[paul]

Thanks Mark.

[Rich Klein]

Or ever heard of it. If anyone has a copy they could located and scan I'd love to see ONE copy

Rich

[brianp-beme]

Thought I would share a couple of neat Buck Barker cards.



The one on the right is a 1931 McDonald of Portland with what appears to be a caricature of Jimmy Cagney transferred onto the backside. This didn't deter Buck from writing all of Henry "Hank" McDonalds baseball vital info along each edge of the card.

The one on the left is a great example of the importance of Buck Barker's work on identifying players pictured on less mainstream sets such as the Zeenut issues. The card is a 1925 Zeenut of Haughy of San Francisco. Buck did a lot of research at the Sporting News headquarters in Missouri, and as far as I can tell brought along his cards as 'notepads'. On this card he obviously had difficulty finding any player matches to Haughy. At the top he writes a note to himself 'Try Hughes' and then probably added 'Not at SN' (Sporting News). Then he also notes that he 'Can't find SN as' and lists 'Haugh, Hough, Haughey, Haughee, Hughey, Hughie, Hugheey, Hughie, Hugh.' You can see the extent of research he did to try to identify this player...and you can imagine the countless hours pouring over documents and microfiche just to provide such information about a slew of elusive and obscure players pictured on Zeenuts and Old Judges, etc., all just for the general good of the collecting community. It is quite telling that the identity of player pictured on the 1925 Haughy Zeenut has still not been identified (at least as of five years ago when I last looked).

So no, I will never erase these chicken scratches, and I hope others haven't and will not.

Brian

[Spike]

I picked up some cards at the National with hand-written player updates on the back and an advanced collector told me to look up Buck Barker's own updates, such as cards in this thread. He also called out the T207 Irv Lewis, which I've failed to find so far. Anyone know why that one in particular? Did Buck write something NSFW on it?

[Yoda]

I hold and have owned before a Pinkertons Cobb - fielding with Buck's printed name and address on it.

[oaks1912]

Spike,
Send me a scan of the writing. I know Buck's handwriting pretty well. It was really nice to see you this weekend in Chicago....MM

[brianp-beme]

Mark is definitely the Buck man, capable of spotting his penmanship from a quarter of a mile away.

Here are some more cards with Buck Barker's handwriting on the back just to train your eyes. The one that says "Mitchell" on the back is a little deceptive in that most of the handwriting on the card is not his, but the "Oliver" above the Mitchell and the "Nagy 81" in the bottom right corner of that card is his handwriting (which happens to indicate who Buck obtained the card from, Frank Nagy in this case, and year obtained - 1981).

Brian

[RCMcKenzie]

I picked up some cards at the National with hand-written player updates on the back and an advanced collector told me to look up Buck Barker's own updates, such as cards in this thread. He also called out the T207 Irv Lewis, which I've failed to find so far. Anyone know why that one in particular? Did Buck write something NSFW on it?

My recollection is that I bought the Lewis on here. It was billed as prior Barker and Olbermann. I think I sold it with B&L around 2010. I see the listing, but no photo in their archives. It may be on here in a thread somewhere. It had red ink writing all over the back in a circle. Just bio and stat content.

[lumberjack]

Barker was this legendary collector, but he was also this citizen librarian/baseball fan who wrote on EVERYTHING. I have Charles Conlon contact prints with Barker's distinctive printing on the verso documenting whatever team the subject played for. He also did this with Reach guides.
lumberjack