View Full Version : Net54 T206 observation
brianp-beme
12-18-2009, 07:09 AM
The T206 set is monumental, cool, widely collected, a classic within the hobby...but nine of the twenty most recent threads are strictly about this set. The only other informative card issue related thread of note is about the Exhibit sets. A little variety please! I did my part recently with a thread about the Pacific Coast biscuit D310 set, but have gotten little response to the post (I know plenty of you out there have at least a type card from this issue, and can help me out with a tint theory that as far as I can tell has never discussed before--help us gain little more understanding about this set).
I would love to read more about other cool sets too...get crackin', people!
Brian
I wholeheartedly concur. Most people that read the board ONLY want to take from it, NOT give back to it. Even some of my hobby friends, like Gary N- who had big issues getting a check from Mastro, is ONLY a taker. I got raked over the coals to take down the banner, it got taken down, Gary got his money...and except for about 1 other post, has been gone. I know he reads the board too, as I see him logged in sometimes. Great hobby knowledge, but is only a taker. There are many others the same way. It's sad but it will never change. For those that give back I want to extend a special thanks.....It is YOU who the hobby desperately needs. Thanks again to all who have shared on the board. best regards
barrysloate
12-18-2009, 08:29 AM
Perhaps once a T206 thread is started, if a poster has a different question about the set he can continue on the thread already in progress. I know the T206heads are passionate collectors, but the board is nice when there is more balance. Of course, you can't actually enforce a T206 rule, just point out that if someone already sees a thread moving along, just post right there. Everybody interested in the set will see it. In the grand scheme of things, not a big issue but a fair one to bring up.
bijoem
12-18-2009, 08:33 AM
I, for one, appreciate the irony of a thread started about the T206 set is complaining about the number of threads about the T206 set. :D
barrysloate
12-18-2009, 08:35 AM
I remember an episode of the old Abbott and Costello show where Bud and Lou got a job going door to door selling "no peddlers allowed" signs. Same idea.:)
RichR
12-18-2009, 08:40 AM
I think the T206 dominates conversation on the board because it's probably the most popular set, it's massive, and most importantly, it has a ton of nuances to it.
I for one totally love the 1914/15 Cracker Jack set and have been working for years on it but their just is not a ton of different backs and other nuances (their are some but they are well known) to drive a lot of conversation about them.
Rich
PS: Santa I'm still hoping you find that 1915 Jackson for me!
barrysloate
12-18-2009, 08:45 AM
We have so many threads about T206 front/back combinations that it could almost have its own section.
T206 conversations are great. They are probably the most collected pre-war set (maybe minus Goudey). My frustration comes from the members that only take.....If you read the board very frequently and have under about 20 posts in the last 7 months....you probably fall into that category. That's just my opinion. I certainly don't dislike the takers but, as the board goes, the givers are much more important. As a matter of fact I have told several people that IF there is a Net54 dinner this year, and that is a big IF, then it will possibly be only for givers. The takers can go somewhere else to keep taking.....
4815162342
12-18-2009, 08:57 AM
I'm a taker who has nothing to give... but click-throughs to generate revenue from the banner ads.
I'm a taker who has nothing to give... but click-throughs to generate revenue from the banner ads.
As I said, if you have under about 20 posts I consider you a taker...no big deal but it is what it is. You have about 83 posts so are not in that class. As for revenue for click throughs I could give a rats patoot. The board will be fine with or without me, the banners, or any few folks.....This board has been resilient through many trials and tribulations and will continue to be. Thanks again to all those that freely share in this great hobby we all love....warm regards
bijoem
12-18-2009, 09:02 AM
If you read the board very frequently and have under about 20 posts in the last 7 months....you probably fall into that category. That's just my opinion. I certainly don't dislike the takers but, as the board goes, the givers are much more important. As a matter of fact I have told several people that IF there is a Net54 dinner this year, and that is a big IF, then it will possibly be only for givers. The takers can go somewhere else to keep taking.....
I am bit surprised by this post.
I think I am close to being in the 'taker' category.
But, I always felt like one of the family..... until now.
edit: for more accuracy.
barrysloate
12-18-2009, 09:03 AM
T206 is a great set and people should talk about it as much as they want. But I agree with Brian that each time someone has another thought or question about the set, there's not always the need to start a new thread.
If you want to ask a question about rare backs, it's almost guaranteed that there is already a thread in progress on the main page.
I am bit surprised by this post.
I think I am close to being in the 'taker' category.
But, I always felt like one of the family..... until now.
edit: for more accuracy.
As I said Joe, you are one of the givers as you have over about 20 posts. You have exponentially more and thanks for your participation. I think the Net54 Dinner should be a payback for those that contribute not just those that want a free meal and drinks. Again, I doubt there will be one but if there is, then this is my thinking.....
bijoem
12-18-2009, 09:08 AM
As I said Joe, you are one of the givers as you have over about 20 posts. You have exponentially more and thanks for your participation. I think the Net54 Dinner should be a payback for those that contribute not just those that want a free meal and drinks. Again, I doubt there will be one but if there is, then this is my thinking.....
I guess my self-reflection I would consider myself more of a taker than a giver.... especially here where there is so much to take.
If there is not a dinner....
I hope we still get together in some form - so that I could buy you a drink or three.
I guess my self-reflection I would consider myself more of a taker than a giver.... especially here where there is so much to take.
If there is not a dinner....
I hope we still get together in some form - so that I could buy you a drink or three.
I hope we can get together at the National again....Heck, I will always take a free drink too :). You are certainly one of the good guys and I value our friendship. best regards
t206wagner
12-18-2009, 09:14 AM
The only cards I buy and know anything about are the t206's. There is no way that I can say anything constructive about any of the caramel sets, exhibits etc. Other than the posts about people inquiring about certain front and back combinations, there is really nothing that I can add. Sorry for being a taker.
4815162342
12-18-2009, 09:16 AM
The only cards I buy and know anything about are the t206's. There is no way that I can say anything constructive about any of the caramel sets, exhibits etc. Other than the posts about people inquiring about certain front and back combinations, there is really nothing that I can add. Sorry for being a taker.
Same here.
barrysloate
12-18-2009, 09:21 AM
I don't need to speak for Leon, but I think he is being misunderstood. I believe he is referring to people who never have anything to offer the board about vintage baseball cards, but like to air out their complaints about being stiffed by auction houses, or ragging on PSA. If you want to hang your personal laundry without ever offering some good baseball card knowledge, then you are a taker. If you post occasionally, but always do so intelligently, all is fine.
Abravefan11
12-18-2009, 09:30 AM
As Barry said takers use the board for a soap box to air their grievances but don't actually contribute anything constructive to the community.
Takers also are those with knowledge that use the board to gain more knowledge from information provided by others without ever giving back.
Bicem
12-18-2009, 09:31 AM
I guess my self-reflection I would consider myself more of a taker than a giver.... especially here where there is so much to take.
If there is not a dinner....
I hope we still get together in some form - so that I could buy you a drink or three.
Joe, you can come to my takers-only dinner. ;)
Joe, you can come to my takers-only dinner. ;)
Instigators and antagonizers will have their own dinner. I am sure Jeff will be sponsoring that one... :)
Jim VB
12-18-2009, 09:46 AM
I don't need to speak for Leon, but I think he is being misunderstood. I believe he is referring to people who never have anything to offer the board about vintage baseball cards, but like to air out their complaints about being stiffed by auction houses, or ragging on PSA. If you want to hang your personal laundry without ever offering some good baseball card knowledge, then you are a taker. If you post occasionally, but always do so intelligently, all is fine.
I think Barry nailed it. I think it's even more telling if you contrast the main boards with the BST. I can think of several members who use the BST as an arm of their business plan, marketing division. I am aware that some are long time dealers/collectors who NEVER post on the main board and/or offer anything to the group.
I think of all of the posters on this thread as "regular" board members and, by definition, if you are reading and reacting to this thread, you're probably OK.
I believe the guys Leon is referring to would never even bother to open this thread, so they won't be offended.
Jim VB
12-18-2009, 09:48 AM
Instigators and antagonizers will have their own dinner. I am sure Jeff will be sponsoring that one... :)
Sounds like Jeff, Rob D. and myself, will be dining alone, and separately.
Sounds like Jeff, Rob D. and myself, will be dining alone, and separately.
Actually Jim, you are one of our best members and openly share your knowledge and hobby experiences. You rarely get under my skin which is more than I can say for some members...But I have been known to be thin skinned before. :confused:
Rob D.
12-18-2009, 09:51 AM
Sounds like Jeff, Rob D. and myself, will be dining alone, and separately.
Unless there's free parking, count me out.
Bicem
12-18-2009, 09:51 AM
Instigators and antagonizers will have their own dinner. I am sure Jeff will be sponsoring that one... :)
correct... hope everyone likes Hardee's.
Unless there's free parking, count me out.
Rob, I knew I could count on you. :) ....Sweet.....I do have to say the humor on the board is usually outstanding. Nothing will ever beat the Archive dude though....
Rob D.
12-18-2009, 09:57 AM
I'm nothing if not predictable.
Jim VB
12-18-2009, 10:00 AM
Actually Jim, you are one of our best members and openly share your knowledge and hobby experiences. You rarely get under my skin which is more than I can say for some members...But I have been known to be thin skinned before. :confused:
Oh, I knew I was OK on the "participation" grade. I thought I was in trouble on the "Instigators and antagonizers" scoring.
sando69
12-18-2009, 10:09 AM
I do have to say the humor on the board is usually outstanding. Nothing will ever beat the Archive dude though....
...who's that... what team(s) did he play for... is there a T206 card of him and how many front/back combinations are there?
quinnsryche
12-18-2009, 10:11 AM
Now THAT'S funny!
birdman42
12-18-2009, 10:19 AM
...who's that... what team(s) did he play for... is there a T206 card of him and how many front/back combinations are there?
Mark,
Arch Ive must have a good PR machine behind him. Topps has several throwback sets devoted to him. A real journeyman, and a fabulously long career; played for every team at one time or another, between at least 1909 and 1953.
Bill
GoldenAge50s
12-18-2009, 01:08 PM
Sando & Birdman--
LMAO at BOTH comeback replies!:D:D
teetwoohsix
12-18-2009, 02:45 PM
Most of my posts have had something to do with T206 because I love those cards,and now that's all I have.I guess I'm reluctant to start a thread regarding cards I have no pictures of.
I do like to read the threads about caramels,OJ's,CJ's,Goudeys-actually anything pre war is good for me.
I have been interested lately in the 1911 A's Stevens Firearms cards,mainly because it seems to be a small set with great players.I don't have any,but have been thinking about trying to start this as a side project.
If anyone has any scans of these,please post them(or Leon,would you suggest I start a thread?)I'm sure they are very hard to get,but who cares-a hunt is a hunt:D
As far as Archive goes,I MAY have spotted him last night playing blackjack with himself at the new Aria casino that just opened.:D
Regards,Clayton
ullmandds
12-18-2009, 02:58 PM
Maybe this site name should be changed to the network54 t206 museum...and all members who are active(have 20 or more worthwhile posts) will get a token old mill black overstrike card.
Nice one on the sighting of Archive. Just to be clear...I have no issue with anyone just being a lurker. I have no issue with folks who don't post a lot. I do have a bit of an issue with folks that only use the board for their own personal vendetta/gain and never give anything at all back. And it's not like I hate those folks, I don't. I just wish they would contribute more. That is all.
On the Stevens Firearms cards, they are a great set to collect. Technically they are ink blotters. If you start a new thread it would be great. I have a few scans I can pop in and there are some board members who have written articles on them, and they may chime in...
gnuche
12-18-2009, 03:11 PM
Leon, There are many of us lurkers on net54 and I am one of them. I am not as knowledgeable as almost all of the regular posters on net 54 but enjoy learning from them. I consider myself "less guilty" than those takers who never
post but always use the B/S/T. I can't remember ever using the B/S/T, in fact
I preferred to consign to your auction house. I am not sure why my name is the only one you listed. How many "takers" are there. Leon, does this have more to
do with removing the mastro/legendary banner and the loss of revenue it cost you. I enjoyed the net 54 dinner, and resent that you are think I am there for free food and drink. I had a great time with my fellow collectors and would
have attended had I had to pay my own way. If Doug Allen pays that much for the banner put it back up. Hopefully a few "givers" on net 54 will object.
Gary- I still consider you a hobby friend. My only beef is that of your 12 posts on the board, before this thread, 11 of them were ONLY to try to get your money back. You know I tried to help you do that too. You have been collecting for over 35 yrs (I believe), surely there is something you could contribute to the forum other than 1 post in the last 7 months? I see you reading it sometimes and have just had that thought. As for the banner, until ALL Mastro consignors are paid, and I am not sure that has been done, it is not an option...and most likely they won't advertise again anyway because of the stand I/we made. That is fine and it was the right thing to do, given the circumstances. I have been a bit frustrated lately about the board and when this thread got posted I took the opportunity, just as any member does, to give my view. Maybe I am wrong about it but it's the way I feel. I hope you have a happy, safe holidays and I look forward to chatting again at the next National...take care
packs
12-18-2009, 04:06 PM
Am I the only one who finds the T206 set boring? Its everywhere. Collecting that set would most definitely be fun and hugely rewarding once you've completed it, but so is eating a tub of vanilla ice cream. Type sets forever!
gnuche
12-18-2009, 04:09 PM
Leon, Could you at least call out one more person so that I am not the only
one labeled a "cheap taker". Surely someone on the B/S/T list has cheated
someone and you could call them out so I am not alone. Maybe a lurker who has posted fewer times than me. How about someone who drank or ate way more than there share at the net 54 dinner. Cheap, , I can't believe you
called me cheap and think that I come to the net 54 dinner for free food and drink.
Gary- I can't name anyone else because anyone with less posts would have never posted :), therefore they wouldn't be a taker :confused:. No worries...it's off my chest. In a day or three this thread will be gone and I will have at least got to vent my bit of frustration. It's not only you but you got to be the scapegoat. Sorry about that....best regards
T206Collector
12-18-2009, 04:25 PM
I believe that if you decided to make a pre-war board that excluded all talk about T206 you would lose a vast majority of people that come to this board, at least for their first visits. T206 is a "gateway" set for so many people that you'd never lure the casual T206 collector into learning about bread and candy cards.
I also think a stand-alone T206 forum could stand on its own.
I know that no one is suggesting that we eliminate T206 from discussion, but I flipped the angle to demonstrate the importance that T206 has in this community.
I say bring on more T206 discussions -- it's what most of us want to read anyway.
Generic pre-war card discussions (grading, stories of finds, bad sellers, etc.) are all interesting because they can be applied to T206.
But threads specific to E107s or Obaks I find mostly uninteresting. And while I'm on my rant, I never understood why people collect Obak's. Sure they're pretty, but the players are nearly exclusively a bunch of unknowns. I guess if you're from the West Coast you like cards of your home town. But if the players were any good, they'd have made it into the T206 set.
:D
barrysloate
12-18-2009, 04:54 PM
I say let's kill all the Obak collectors!:)
Bicem
12-18-2009, 05:01 PM
Am I the only one who finds the T206 set boring?!
No.
T206Collector
12-18-2009, 05:03 PM
I say let's kill all the Obak collectors!:)
Yeah -- you buy the plane ticket to Oregon and I'll bring the 3 bullets! ;)
T206Collector
12-18-2009, 05:08 PM
No.
Are you bored by its awesomeness?
T206.org
12-18-2009, 05:14 PM
Beer. :D
The problems is not too many T206 threads; it is the laziness of non-T206 collectors. :p
JimB.
P.S. Leon, Gary N. is one of the coolest guys in this hobby, as you know. One of the functions of this board is to serve as a watchdog to protect people like him. If you want that aspect to remain, you can't single out honest collectors for calling out unethical actions in the hobby when they are getting screwed. Gary should be applauded for being willing to go public against what was the most powerful auction house in the hobby, even if he is not a regular contributor these days (He has been in the past on the old board.). I suggest you reconsider your take on this issue.
packs
12-18-2009, 05:30 PM
T206 collector, the T206 is filled with a bunch of unknowns too who never made it to the majors but do have a card in the set that you probably have. What is the difference between that and Obak collectors?
T206 collector, the T206 is filled with a bunch of unknowns too who never made it to the majors but do have a card in the set that you probably have. What is the difference between that and Obak collectors?
Cobb, Matty, Wagner, Young, Johnson, Plank, and a bunch more HOFs for starters. :) But I love Obaks too. Aesthetically, I think Obaks are every bit the equal of T206s, if not better. The colors are amazing.
packs
12-18-2009, 05:37 PM
Definitely can't beat the HOFers in the T206. Does any other set feature so many? Maybe the Goudey sets?
The problems is not too many T206 threads; it is the laziness of non-T206 collectors. :p
JimB.
P.S. Leon, Gary N. is one of the coolest guys in this hobby, as you know. One of the functions of this board is to serve as a watchdog to protect people like him. If you want that aspect to remain, you can't single out honest collectors for calling out unethical actions in the hobby when they are getting screwed. Gary should be applauded for being willing to go public against what was the most powerful auction house in the hobby, even if he is not a regular contributor these days (He has been in the past on the old board.). I suggest you reconsider your take on this issue.
JimB- this wasn't about Gary not being a great guy (in the best sense of the word). He is. It's about taking and not giving. As I said, I also helped with that situation with some phone calls I made on his behalf. Absolutely he should be applauded (hear the applause?) for outing not being paid. I would just like to see him, and others, contribute a bit more. That is all....best regards
Abravefan11
12-18-2009, 05:41 PM
The problems is not too many T206 threads; it is the laziness of non-T206 collectors. :p
I would be surprised if a vintage baseball card forum was not dominated by talk of "The Monster."
Bicem
12-18-2009, 05:48 PM
Are you bored by its awesomeness?
ha ha... honestly, I do like the set. I just get a little tired of it.
calvindog
12-18-2009, 05:57 PM
Gary should be applauded for being willing to go public against what was the most powerful auction house in the hobby, even if he is not a regular contributor these days (He has been in the past on the old board.). I suggest you reconsider your take on this issue.
Imagine if Gary didn't have money owed to him by Mastro and actually came out against them because of the obvious fraud they were committing against everyone and not just him. I guess in that case he'd just get attacked and told that his criticism was tiresome and that no one wanted to hear it anymore.
Moral of the story: Net 54 members will support the outing of an auction house engaged in obvious fraud as long as said Net 54 members are not major consignors and making money off the auction house.
JimB- this wasn't about Gary not being a great guy (in the best sense of the word). He is. It's about taking and not giving. As I said, I also helped with that situation with some phone calls I made on his behalf. Absolutely he should be applauded (hear the applause?) for outing not being paid. I would just like to see him, and others, contribute a bit more. That is all....best regards
Leon,
I know you and Gary are friends and that you helped him out in this situation. This is all a discussion among friends. I consider you one of my better hobby friends as well. I also would love it if he posted more. Gary is being quite humble about his knowledge. But I think he was a bad example to be called out in this case because I don't see his example of calling out Mastro an example of "taking". He put himself out there in a way that also benefitted other readers who were being screwed by Mastro and maybe did not realize there were others. It seems as though Mastro (or Doug or whoever - I don't know the details) needed the PR debacle to start to do the right thing.
I think this was a case where frustration that knowledgeable (mostly) lurkers like Gary don't post more, confused what Gary had actually done, served as a hobby watchdog, and got him labeled (wrongly, imho) as a "taker". Just my .02. Take it for what it is worth.
JimB
edited to sign my name
Rob D.
12-18-2009, 06:05 PM
Imagine if Gary didn't have money owed to him by Mastro and actually came out against them because of the obvious fraud they were committing against everyone and not just him. I guess in that case he'd just get attacked and told that his criticism was tiresome and that no one wanted to hear it anymore.
Moral of the story: Net 54 members will support the outing of an auction house engaged in obvious fraud as long as said Net 54 members are not major consignors and making money off the auction house.
I'm just thrilled to learn that criticizing auction houses when it's appropriate is now an acceptable practice on the board -- even an applaudable one.
Leon,
I know you and Gary are friends and that you helped him out in this situation. This is all a discussion among friends. I consider you one of my better hobby friends as well. I also would love it if he posted more. Gary is being quite humble about his knowledge. But I think he was a bad example to be called out in this case because I don't see his example of calling out Mastro an example of "taking". He put himself out there in a way that also benefitted other readers who were being screwed by Mastro and maybe did not realize there were others. It seems as though Mastro (or Doug or whoever - I don't know the details) needed the PR debacle to start to do the right thing.
I think this was a case where frustration that knowledgeable (mostly) lurkers like Gary don't post more, confused what Gary had actually done, served as a hobby watchdog, and got him labeled (wrongly, imho) as a "taker". Just my .02. Take it for what it is worth.
JimB
edited to sign my name
Jim- I consider you one of my better hobby friends, so we are in reciprocation of each other's friendship; Gary is right behind you :). That being said you might have to be in my shoes to feel the way I do. I am done on the subject also. Have a happy holidays and can't wait to get together at the National (I assume you will be there?).
T206Collector
12-18-2009, 06:07 PM
T206 collector, the T206 is filled with a bunch of unknowns too who never made it to the majors but do have a card in the set that you probably have. What is the difference between that and Obak collectors?
Southern Leaguers are the Obaks of the T206 set. They are a necessary evil.
Many of the Minor Leaguers, you may find, either played in the Majors before or after their T206 appearances (e.g., Cravath, Blackburne, etc.)
rfurnish
12-18-2009, 06:24 PM
I sincerely hope that this thread doesn't discourage any one from starting future t206 related threads....I realize that not everyone is here for t206, but I would guess that it's what the majority of us have an interest in. I say bring em' on!
packs
12-18-2009, 06:24 PM
I guess for me the kicker to the T206 set is the pricing. I totally understand how pricing works in relation to supply and demand, but sometimes it gets way too crazy in regard to the T206. Shag only played 9 major league games but his card in comparable condition is worth more than some HOFers. I totally understand and accept it, but am just not a fan.
teetwoohsix
12-18-2009, 06:37 PM
From the very first one I got (Bill Hallman SGC50)to the last ones I got (will post after I take the pictures of them maybe next month),I have never caught the fever for any other types like I did for T206's.
I hope no one stops posting about them either.
A little other flavor never hurts though,I love to read posts about all pre war cards,so bring it on!!
The December pick ups are awesome!!!!!!!!
So is the "Capture of The White Whale"(beautiful collection,congrats on that,by the way).
To each his (or her) own.
Regards,Clayton
I guess for me the kicker to the T206 set is the pricing. I totally understand how pricing works in relation to supply and demand, but sometimes it gets way too crazy in regard to the T206. Shag only played 9 major league games but his card in comparable condition is worth more than some HOFers. I totally understand and accept it, but am just not a fan.
I think the pose of Shag is what does it. He looks like Count Dracula. I only have him in E222 with that pose so will save that for another thread. Neat poses most often bring more money. It seems he almost has a cult following :).
Dave1943
12-18-2009, 06:39 PM
I regret that I am viewed as a non-participant, but I ask that I be allowed to remain a member. I only became recently interested in baseball cards, and I live in an area where vintage cards are 1980ish. I have no desire to be considered a 'taker', but I do not feel that I have gained enough knowledge or acquired enough cards to have anything worthwhile to contribute to your excellent forum.
Respectfully,
Dave
matthew
12-18-2009, 06:57 PM
To the poster above - --
I don't have the info in front of me, but there are quite a few T206 SLers who had ML experience. Some may have just a had a cup of coffee, but there are some pretty good careers sprinkled through them as well. I view them as no different (or better in some cases) than the mediocre major leaguers.
rhettyeakley
12-18-2009, 07:29 PM
Some things to know about Frank Shaughnessy (of T206 fame) other than the Dracula look...
Shaughnessy had a very long career as a baseball player, manager, and then became president of the International League for nearly 30 years, that is what (in my opinion) makes him a more desirable card to have than any other SL card. Not to mention he was captain of the 1904 Notre Dame football team. He is also a member of the Canadian Football HOF (was also head coach of Clemson a few years after John Heisman), and is in the Canadian baseball HOF. In all seriousness Frank Shaughnessy is one of the most important "forgotten" sports figures of the early 20th century.
Here is a trivia question about Shag: (that I don't have all the answers to)
How many other T206ers are pictured on a card put out by Topps before 1970 (other than 1951 Connie Mack All-Stars)?
What Topps set (defined as anything produced by Topps) is Shag featured in?
ethicsprof
12-18-2009, 07:37 PM
i,for one, much prefer Shag's 'hippie' hair to the scary flat top Coach's look he had in his older days.
Granted, i've still got a bit of the old 60s hippie in me. :)
But a little less than Barry Sloate.
I must say this board continues to be the best in the known universe,IMHO,
even with warts and all.
best,
barry
Jim VB
12-18-2009, 07:49 PM
I regret that I am viewed as a non-participant, but I ask that I be allowed to remain a member. I only became recently interested in baseball cards, and I live in an area where vintage cards are 1980ish. I have no desire to be considered a 'taker', but I do not feel that I have gained enough knowledge or acquired enough cards to have anything worthwhile to contribute to your excellent forum.
Respectfully,
Dave
Dave,
I don't think Leon was thinking about canceling anyone's membership. Just the opposite, he's trying to encourage everyone to participate more.
I don't know where you live, but much of the country has the same approach to what's "vintage." There are probably a dozen or more board members here, within a few miles radius around Dallas (myself, Leon, Jeff P, Rich K, just to name a few) yet you couldn't find a card shop, dealer, or show no matter how long you looked. That's what's great about this board, the internet, and even Ebay. You can find almost anything you want.
yoyot1
12-18-2009, 07:53 PM
Wow, didn't know Shag coached at my alma mater, that's pretty cool. Go Tigers!
Jim- I consider you one of my better hobby friends, so we are in reciprocation of each other's friendship; Gary is right behind you :). That being said you might have to be in my shoes to feel the way I do. I am done on the subject also. Have a happy holidays and can't wait to get together at the National (I assume you will be there?).
I will be there. Looking forward to seeing you too Leon. Have a nice holiday.
JimB
Imagine if Gary didn't have money owed to him by Mastro and actually came out against them because of the obvious fraud they were committing against everyone and not just him. I guess in that case he'd just get attacked and told that his criticism was tiresome and that no one wanted to hear it anymore.
Moral of the story: Net 54 members will support the outing of an auction house engaged in obvious fraud as long as said Net 54 members are not major consignors and making money off the auction house.
Not being a major consignor to any auction house, I had to read this several times before realizing you were actually referring to me. I have not consigned to any auction house in this hobby more than once, so I think it would be difficult to characterize me as a "major consignor" to any of them. I probably have only consigned items four or five times in 25 years in the hobby. So this has nothing to do with me making money on anything. Am I now on your conspiracy radar? You couldn't hold back, even when I was supporting the same types of criticisms you have levied. The difference is, in Gary's case, irrefutable proof was presented. In many of the cases you presented, allegations were made based on circumstantial evidence - much of which was shown not to support your suggested conclusions when bidders and underbidders came on to present facts rather than innuendo. I have no problem with outing fraud. I have a problem with potentially damaging someone based on a hunch. If you want to talk about the appearance of impropriety, how about a lawyer continually bashing an auction house on a public forum only to find out months later that he is actually defending a client in a civil suit against that auction house.
JimB
calvindog
12-18-2009, 10:03 PM
Jim, you're a fool. I noticed Mastro's obvious fraud years before I ever represented Dave Forman in a case against Mastro. In fact, it was because I didn't lay down for Mastro like nearly every one else did, despite the beating I was taking on the board by Dougie and his friends, that Dave probably hired me. And everything I said on behalf of Dave I said publicly on this board for years prior.
And I was right about Mastro despite all the great guys on the board who blasted me for daring to harm their golden goose. And the evidence I presented regarding Mastro was all circumstantial -- which is actually a very powerful type of evidence. Only later did more evidence come out of the woodwork supporting the very obvious proof I presented. As for Goodwin, the evidence suggesting fraud which has occurred in his auctions dwarfs anything shown in Mastro years ago. Getting 30x what other auction houses get for the same, identical card over and over again is strong enough evidence for me that something rotten is going on over there.
Orioles1954
12-18-2009, 10:22 PM
No Net54 Dinner is Baltimore? Dang, my first National, 10 minutes from my house and no dinner......grrrr...
vintagewhitesox
12-18-2009, 10:24 PM
I never was a big fan of the T206 set. I do like a few of the cards, like the Cobb Bat Off, and Young Portrait. But still, I can appreciate the nuances and difficulty of completing the Monster.
Glad to hear the appearance of impropriety does not always equate with wrongdoing. ;)
JimB
calvindog
12-18-2009, 10:52 PM
Except mine was not an appearance of impropriety since my purported conflict arose well after I had already stated my feelings about Mastro -- and I didn't change my position for money or for a client. Sometimes you just want to think aweful things about others, that's all.
HRBAKER
12-18-2009, 11:00 PM
Beer. :D
...and popcorn!
ChiefBenderForever
12-18-2009, 11:35 PM
Nothing compares to T206 and never will. Quanity, backs, variations, hof's, sl,ect ect. The other sets are all awesome but very limited quantities. I love the caramels and see a lot of talk how they have dried up due to lower prices so very tough to pick any up, and when they do come up very expensive. The T206 is the gateway set, and you don't have to have a ton of money to start collecting them, that can't be said for most prewar.
Sometimes you just want to think aweful things about others, that's all.
I will assume that was ironic humor. Have a good night.
JimB
barrysloate
12-19-2009, 05:07 AM
Rhett- to answer one of your trivia questions, and this is purely a guess, I'll say Shag appears in the 1955 Topps All-American set.
Barry A.- I've seen pictures of you and you have way more hair than I do.:) But yes, I am still a hippie at heart, or as they might say in Yiddish, an alte-hippie.
It's a couple of hours later, and now my thought is Shag may be in the 1960 Topps set, on one of those coaches cards. It's either 1955 or 1960. Again, I didn't look it up.
calvindog
12-19-2009, 06:23 AM
Yes, it was ironic that I can't spell awful, you are correct.
Kotton King
12-19-2009, 07:22 AM
I don't have an issue with all the T206 threads either. When I got into vintage cards 3 years ago that was my gateway set. I no longer collect it, but I always find myself coming back to it to pick up a card here and there.
So I too say bring them on.
Shag is my favorite card out of the set. I have an example with all three of the possible backs (Piedmont 350, Old Mill SL, and Hindu). A fun little subset.
yawie99
12-19-2009, 11:41 AM
[B]ut I always find myself coming back to it to pick up a card here and there.
Me too. I suspect I'll always need a periodic dose of T206 methadone.
rhettyeakley
12-19-2009, 11:59 AM
Well Barry since you are the only one that tried to answer I will just tell ya. He is featured on a Topps baseball card in the 1964 Topps Rookie All-Star Banquet set. The card depicts him (obviously later in life) along with Jackie Robinson, Charles Spink, Al Silverman, Joel Shorin, J. McDermott, and J. McKenney.
-Rhett
barrysloate
12-19-2009, 12:02 PM
Never would have gotten that Rhett. It was a tough one.
ethicsprof
12-19-2009, 03:03 PM
with your selling of so many of your favorite T206 St. Louis cards, I've wondered how your addiction was doing. i'm pleased the Monster dose
of methadone is helping! :)
always glad to see you on board, ole buddy.
best,
barry
rc4157
12-19-2009, 05:14 PM
Jumping in here a little late but I've been quite busy losing girls high school basketball games but that's another story.
I didn't catch the banner debate, I tend to stay away from those, but I will say that the highlight of my 1st National this year in Cleveland was meeting fellow Net54 members. It would be a shame not to have another get-together in Baltimore even if it would cost us to assist in putting it together.
As far as too many T-206 threads.......they don't bother me a bit, I don't collect all T-206, I got all of the Reds and a few other selected cards and don't really have the interest to go after the whole set but I still enjoy seeing the pick-ups and thoughts of those that do collect T-206 extensively.
Have a great holiday everyone!
RC
caramelcard
12-19-2009, 06:58 PM
I like T206 AND obak discussions. And this thread is the best ever to grace this board.
jrhatchjr
12-20-2009, 09:01 AM
I have thoroughly enjoyed Brian's posts on various issues (D310, M116/E91, etc.) and learning new perspectives. Unfortunately I don't have much to add to them to aid in testing the theories :(
brianp-beme
12-20-2009, 10:31 AM
Sometimes you post a thread and it ends up spiraling away from your original intentions. I just wanted to hopefully instill the fear of the card gods into getting some additional interesting posts and responses on this great site.
T-206's will always be the star amongst vintage colectors, and this set should be...it has it all, with a ton of nuances and mysteries to satisfy all the detectives amongst us. Keep on posting T206 info, lurkers contribute when you are able, and peace be to all
So there.
Brian