View Full Version : Hi-Lites from the Philly Show....including a new Doyle error card.
tedzan
12-08-2009, 01:04 PM
I tend to look at the positive side of things, so here are some highlights of this past weekend's Philly Show....that I think
may interest you..
I had a great time Saturday and Sunday with Leon sharing BB card stories, talking baseball, and showing him some of my
esoteric stuff (19th Century cards & associated Albums, uncut sheets from the 1940's & 1950's, T206 special sets, etc.).
Many interesting conversations with customers regarding my American Beauty pack display (as shown here). I inserted
the AB card in it for the effect. The cigarettes are the original ones in it. Thanks to Jon C. for finding this pack for me.
<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abcigpackt206.jpg" alt="[linked image]">
I have to tell you of my last two customers on Sunday afternoon, Zack and Ben (brothers, 10 and 8 year olds). First, their
response to seeing my AB pack was "AWESOME". Then, as they flipped the plastic pages of my T206 album, they were say-
ing the first names of every player. I was really impressed to hear them name all 150 players in my album. They told me they
had $100 to spend and what kind of deal would I give them ?
I told them to pull out 5 of their favorite T206's. They took Dahlen, Ewing, Kroh, Reulbach, and Rucker. Their Mom told me
that Zack and Ben are very computer-savvy and know the names and stats of almost every player in the T206 set.
There is hope for this hobby.
And last but certainly not least, a new T206 Joe Doyle error card appeared at the show. I had a real close look at it; and, I
can confirm that it is authentic. It's part of a recent tobacco card find from the South. To date, this Doyle error card is only
the 8th one known.
TED Z
ChiefBenderForever
12-08-2009, 01:08 PM
Nice story and very nice AB pack, you know what they say- "Smoke it if you got it !"
canjond
12-08-2009, 01:11 PM
Ted - as I told you via email, I think the display looks really cool. Also, it's nice to see the cigarettes. I have to admit, I never opened mine up to get a look inside.
Glad you like the pack!
- Jon
ethicsprof
12-08-2009, 01:13 PM
Great news regarding the kids, a great looking pack, and great time with
ole Leon et al. Christmas presents are already arriving for you, ole friend.
best,
barry
sbfinley
12-08-2009, 01:23 PM
Sounds like a great show. Is REA's million dollar offer for an 8th Doyle card still standing?
brianp-beme
12-08-2009, 01:45 PM
Is the American Beauty pack one that originally came with T206's? If so, doesn't that disprove the old idea that the reason why American Beauty cards are slimmer than all the other brands is because of the packaging? Maybe this has been discussed before, but if so, would be good to read about it.
Brian
Ted,
Nice pack! Can you tell us more about the Doyle? Was it on display? Or was it sold/consigned?
Jim
P.S. Brian, Good question about the AB box.
Ted,
Nice pack! Can you tell us more about the Doyle? Was it on display? Or was it sold/consigned?
Jim
P.S. Brian, Good question about the AB box.
Ted can answer too but I saw the card and it is in an SGC AUT holder. I know one of the major auction houses had it but I don't know for positive it was consigned, though I think it was, so don't want to say exactly which one. It wasn't really on public display but was being shown around a little bit. I do think we will see it in auction, in the not distant future, but again, am not positive. It was a great looking card with the top of the card possibly being trimmed (hence the AUT), otherwise a solid EX from what I remember...
uffda51
12-08-2009, 02:30 PM
Thanks for the post, Ted. Nice AB pack!
Ted can answer too but I saw the card and it is in an SGC AUT holder. I know one of the major auction houses had it but I don't know for positive it was consigned, though I think it was, so don't want to say exactly which one. It wasn't really on public display but was being shown around a little bit. I do think we will see it in auction, in the not distant future, but again, am not positive. It was a great looking card with the top of the card possibly being trimmed (hence the AUT), otherwise a solid EX from what I remember...
Thanks Leon.
JimB
tedzan
12-08-2009, 02:56 PM
There is not much more I can add than Leon. I saw the Doyle card late Friday nite before it was graded.
I would have guessed that it would grade Vg-Ex (SGC 50). The fact that it has an AUTH. grade does not
really detract from it (in my opinion). As it is a nice looking card. I know more about it; however, at this
time I'm not at liberty to say. My main concern was....is it a "re-cycled" one of the 7 known Doyles ?
No, it is from an original collection from down South.
Regards,
TED Z
canjond
12-08-2009, 03:20 PM
Is the American Beauty pack one that originally came with T206's? If so, doesn't that disprove the old idea that the reason why American Beauty cards are slimmer than all the other brands is because of the packaging? Maybe this has been discussed before, but if so, would be good to read about it.
Brian
Brian,
Yes - that is the original AB pack that would have contained the cards although the handful of known AB packs all pre-date the series by a few years. That being said, once these AB packs were discovered a few years back, it did blow the theory that AB's are skinnier left to right because of pack design right out of the water. AB packs are the same size as any other T206 era slide and shell pack (ie: SC, Piedmont, Broadleaf, Cycle, Sovereign, etc).
- Jon
brianp-beme
12-08-2009, 03:31 PM
Thanks Jon...that American Beauty cards are skinnier because of the packs idea had been hammered into my head after hearing it so many times over the years. It is not surprising that it took a couple of knocks to the noggin to get it out of there. Thanks for supplying the decisive blow.
Brian
Rob D.
12-08-2009, 03:58 PM
Has Joe P. (Potamac Yank) had a chance to inspect/authenticate the supposed Doyle error? Might be best to hold off proclaiming this one as No. 8 until he has a chance to look it over.
canjond
12-08-2009, 04:10 PM
Thanks Jon...that American Beauty cards are skinnier because of the packs idea had been hammered into my head after hearing it so many times over the years. It is not surprising that it took a couple of knocks to the noggin to get it out of there. Thanks for supplying the decisive blow.
Brian
Brian,
Until the small horde of AB packs surfaced in about 2006, there were no AB packs floating around to debunk the myth. It's a relatively new discovery.
- Jon
RayBShotz
12-08-2009, 05:28 PM
Ted - Your post about the boys and the T-206 knowledge warmed my heart. I had little hope that such fans of T-206 existed at that age.
Its really, really good to see.
RayB
sox1903wschamp
12-08-2009, 05:54 PM
I loved the story about the kid Brothers. It's nice to see another Doyle error but those young ones in the hobby is a very cool thing.
tedzan
12-08-2009, 07:31 PM
It was refreshing to see how enthusiastic Zack and Ben were about BB cards. I was their age when I first collected BB
cards in 1947. We certainly didn't have personal computers in those days......nor did we have a TV set. But, we had a
really big library in town with loads of books on BB.
TED Z
Rich Klein
12-08-2009, 08:04 PM
Back in the early 80's, I would always make it a point to show them to younger kids than me. Without exception; they were always fascinated by those turn of the century cards. I don't know why, but kids always loved those cards. It's good to see that a few kids are still into those cards. I hope somehow; since it is only 2 hours away; that those kids make it to Baltimore next year! I know it is an expensive trip; but usually free admission for kids at the National *or we'll have to convince Mike; John and Bob to make an exception*
Rich
Rich Klein
12-08-2009, 08:05 PM
That show is known for Doyle's appearing. There have been three now (two of which were real) that made their first appearence at that show. I was telling Leon the story at lunch today about the first two
Rich
JamesGallo
12-08-2009, 11:04 PM
Those kids came by my table and asked for Nap Rucker. I was taken a back and asked why he wanted a Rucker. He just said he didn't know and looked a bit more.
I didn't talk to them as much as Ted, but maybe I should have. Nice to see young blood.
James G
tedzan
12-09-2009, 06:52 AM
JAMES
These two kids, were not only T206-wise, they were wise shoppers. The 1st time they came to my booth about 2 PM on Sunday.
They checked-out my stuff and asked about my prices. Then they dragged their Mom and Dad to other booths. Then about 3 PM,
they returned to my set-up and started their conversation about the numerous T206's in my Junk-box and my binder. I sold them
the 5 - T206 cards at 1/2 price. They thanked me and asked me for my business card.
Also, they are avid Phillies fans and they had come there for the autographs.....Cliff Lee was thru signing at 2 PM. This was a rare
example of having popular local star(s) signing also benefiting the dealers.
Incidently, I think Cliff Lee was the most popular star all weekend. Even more popular than Carlton, Rose, and Schmidt. Lee signed
items for more than 200 people.
RICH
I would bet that these brothers will return to the Philly show in March (2010). It's anyone's guess if their parents will go as far as
Baltimore next summer.
Can you please share with us the other 2 scenarios regarding the Joe Doyle error cards at the Philly Show ?
I recall 2 - Joe Doyle error cards "walked-in" to the Philadelphia Convention Center Show (circa 2000). One of these was a real one;
and, the other turned out to be a fake. However, I don't think you are referring to them ? ?
TED Z
iggyman
12-09-2009, 07:42 AM
Wait a second! Am I in some sort of bizzaro world??? The Philly show actually had some highlights??? It's a crazy world we live in...
Lovely Day...
Rich Klein
12-09-2009, 08:51 AM
JAMES
I recall 2 - Joe Doyle error cards "walked-in" to the Philadelphia Convention Center Show (circa 2000). One of these was a real one;
and, the other turned out to be a fake. However, I don't think you are referring to them ? ?
TED Z
Teddy:
You may be correct in that it was the Sports Fest Shows; I thought they were the Ft Washington shows and I was told they showed up one show each.
Since you were there, and I only read the stories in Trade Fax; I bow to the primary witness on the subject :)
Rich
danmckee
12-09-2009, 09:29 AM
It was sports fest, I was there and the dude that sold the fake Doyle came straight to my table and spent several thousand $$. He was shaking like a leaf, I should have known something was wrong then but I never saw the card. Alan had it by then and I believe it may have been slabbed quickly. Dan.
tedzan
12-09-2009, 09:51 AM
I was at this show in downtown Phila. in 1999. My understanding is that a large collection of T206's (in plastic pages in a binder)
walked-in and the owner went straight to Mr Mint's booth. Al Rosen flipped thru the pages of the binder and bought the collection.
707-Sportscards' booth was next to Rosen's. Alan flipped this collection to either Levi or Jimmy. When they looked thru the binder,
they spotted the Joe Doyle with the "Nat'l" caption. Obviously, Rosen never saw it when he skimmed thru the pages.
This Doyle error card has been graded and is one of the 8 known legitimate T206 Doyle error cards.
T-Rex TED
tedzan
12-09-2009, 06:22 PM
Continuing from Dan McKee's......."I was there and the dude that sold the fake Doyle came straight to my table
and spent several thousand $$. He was shaking like a leaf, I should have known something was wrong then but
I never saw the card. Alan had it by then and I believe it may have been slabbed quickly."
Indeed Dan, it was slabbed. It is one of the most egregious mistakes ever made in the world of BB card grading.
This particular "Doyle error" card was one of the most amateurish attempts at adding "Nat'l" to its caption of all
the fake Doyle's ever seen. How it got past the grader(s) is utterly mystifying.
This story gets even worse......a big name in the hobby acquires this Doyle, realizes it's a fake, and sues to re-
cover the big $$$$$ he paid for it. His money was returned. But, I'm not sure who ended up "eating this fake".
T-Rex TED
Jewish-collector
12-09-2009, 06:31 PM
Ted,
Speaking of Rosen, does he still have a booth at the Philly show ?
glynparson
12-09-2009, 07:23 PM
Ted's recollection is close. I worked for Levi at the time so I know exactly what happend. The binder with the real Doyle was sold by Esposito to Levi and it did not walk into the show it walked into Czuba's store when Rosen was set up there on a buying trip. So Esposito Czuba and Rosen all missed the Doyle along with Jimmy who looked through the binder before Levi purchased it. Levi also had no idea the card was in the binder when he bought it. Jimmy realized it was the Doyle error while he was walking around, after having passed on the deal. He raced back to Joe's table only to be told Levi had already purchased the binder. Levi had given me the binder to put in the back while he conitnued shopping the floor. Jimmy came racing over looked thru the binder pulled the card and waited for Levi to return to tell him of his good luck. Rosen would not have flipped anything to Levi at the time as they where not on speaking terms. Levi, to his credit, attempted to give Joe more money but Joe flat out refused, telling Levi he made the deal and would not take another dime from him. I had never heard the part about Dan selling the guy cards who sold Rosen the Doyle. I guess Dan's comments clear Rosen of the rumors he had the second Doyle made to try and discredit the real one Levi had and that he flipped for pennies.
PS Alan the answer is no Rosen no longer has a table.
Rob D.
12-10-2009, 04:47 AM
Great story, Glyn.
Thanks for the accurate account.
Rich Klein
12-10-2009, 05:19 AM
Sounds like no villians in this story; instead everyone acted appropriately (except for the guy Dan met) and honored their deals. Good to hear (not that this is a suprise) that both Levi and Joe in a situation like this both honored their deal.
Rich
tedzan
12-10-2009, 07:35 AM
"The best part is that this
Sounds like no villians in this story; instead everyone acted appropriately (except for the guy Dan met) and honored their deals.
Good to hear (not that this is a suprise) that both Levi and Joe in a situation like this both honored their deal."
Well, not everyone....
SGC was grossly irresponsible for grading this obvious fake.
And, Mr Rosen was out, about $8000.
rebelsart
12-11-2009, 10:14 AM
Ted,
Thank you for posting the information on the recently discovered T206 Joe Doyle card at the Valley Forge show.
I did not see any mention in this thread, but I am hoping the card has a Piedmont 350 subjects back.
Can you confirm this?
Also, does anybody have an image of this new discovery?
Regards,
Art M.
"The best part is that this
Sounds like no villians in this story; instead everyone acted appropriately (except for the guy Dan met) and honored their deals.
Good to hear (not that this is a suprise) that both Levi and Joe in a situation like this both honored their deal."
Well, not everyone....
SGC was grossly irresponsible for grading this obvious fake.
And, Mr Rosen was out, about $8000.
Ted- I think you are correct in your statement but I think it's also fair to point out that the whole SGC regime from when the fake Doyle was graded are now gone, and have been for a long time. regards
tedzan
12-11-2009, 10:54 AM
Yes, 10 years ago, SGC was run by a different crew. Rich K and I are strictly referring to events in 1999 - 2000 era.
In no way am I demeaning the people running SGC in 2009.
I have a lot of respect for Brian Dwyer. I've known Derek Grady for many years, and I have great respect for Derek's
professionalism.
Furthermore, if I need to have a card graded, I submit it to SGC.
TED Z
tedzan
12-11-2009, 11:18 AM
" Ted,
Thank you for posting the information on the recently discovered T206 Joe Doyle card at the Valley Forge show.
I did not see any mention in this thread, but I am hoping the card has a Piedmont 350 subjects back.
Can you confirm this?
Also, does anybody have an image of this new discovery? "
ART
I have a quick 4-point test for determining whether a T206 card of Joe Doyle with "Nat'l" is an original, authentic
card. And, my very 1st test is to see that it has a PIEDMONT 350 back.....this is confirmed.
It's my understanding that this Doyle error card will soon be in a forthcoming auction.
ART......I will be emailing you regarding another subject.
Best regards,
TED Z