Is the DH Overpaid- Wall Street Journal

[Yankeefan51]

Designated Hitters = Baseball's Most Overpaid?By DAVID BIDERMANArticle


When Major League Baseball's annual Winter Meetings begin Monday, several teams will splurge on players they'll no doubt regret signing months later. Here's one way to eliminate that sorrow before it ever begins: don't blow your cash on designated hitters.


Are designated hitters worth these exorbitant prices? The stat geeks of the world say no. After all, they sit in the dugout for at least half the game. The Wins Above Replacement metric—which combines players' positive contributions and determines how many wins they contribute over average or "replacement" players—shows that designated hitters' lack of defense set them behind every other offensive position.According to a study prepared by the Major League Baseball Players Association, the mean salary for designated hitters in 2009 was $7.34 million, including highly paid underachievers like the Boston Red Sox's David Ortiz ($12.5 million). Among all positions, only everyday first basemen made more money with a mean salary of $7.39 million.

Meanwhile, starting pitchers are the most underpaid players in the game according to these numbers, partially because teams often skimp on their fifth starters to save money for other positions. Even with the likes of Johan Santana and CC Sabathia making hundreds of millions of dollars, the average starter last year pulled down just $4.66 million while producing more than any other position.

Pay by Position
POSITION
Mean Salary
Wins Above Replacement
1st Basemen
$7,385,135 3.8
Designated Hitters $7,336,833 1.08
3rd Basemen
$6,461,916 3.27
Starting Pitchers
$4,657,768 4.34
Outfielders
$4,582,964 2.84
Shortstops
$4,441,029 2.98
2nd Basemen
$4,316,124 3.36
Catchers
$4,066,190 2.69
Relief Pitchers
$1,782,084 0.63
Source: MLB Players Association, FanGraphs.com
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[FrankWakefield]

Yes, they are overpaid.

It isn't all about their production at the plate. When Mr. Aaron was DHing, a factor to consider was his value in ticket sales.

Even for the Yankees, it is about the money. This reminds me of the talk toward the end of a race when I'm watching NASCAR, and they talk about getting no tires, two, or four. When the race is over, they pay off by finishing order, not thickness of the tires. In baseball, they, the owners, don't add up batting averages and home runs, they count the money.

[Leon]

Baseball today is a game that is all about the money. If the owners make a profit then I can't say they are overpaid. My pet peeve is how much most of the players whine about salaries, and this and that, with respect to the millions they make. It is the main reason I can't probably name 10 of today's (was that apostrophe ok?) players. I love watching the game but the professional minor leagues is more enjoyable for me.....plus their games are about 1/5 of the price of major league ones if we want to go to one.

[Bill Stone]

About once every six months I will pop in a tape of game 7 of the 1960 World Series and relive the best game ever for a Pittsburgh fan. No mention of salary disputes or other issues just a bunch of guys playing a wonderful game. I am looking forward to the 50th anniversary of this game.

[Irwin Fletcher]

The author of the WSJ article kind of misses the point.

The article notes that DHs are lower on the WAR scale because they don't play defense, so the WAR for a DH is derived strictly from offensive contribution, which is really only half of the equation. The author's conclusion then is that DHs are overpaid because they make more money relative to their WAR than those players who play defense.

But what the author doesn't mention is that DHs never play defense, so their WAR will almost always be lower. So long as the DH spot exists, it's not really fair to compare the overall contributions of a player that plays defense to one who never plays defense. A more appropriate comparison between DHs and positions players would be Runs Created or something like that.

For example (and this is not backed up by looking at any actual numbers), if you had Mark Teixiera (sp?) at first base, he would have a high WAR because he is an excellent offensive and defensive player. In order to match his WAR total at DH based on offense alone, you'd probably have to have Albert Pujols at DH. And if you did, I doubt anyone would complain that Pujols at DH is overpaid.

It's just a fact of life in the AL that you have to pay position player salary to a guy who only hits.

[ctownboy]

I agree, Designated Hitters are overpaid.

My view is, a guy becomes a DH for one of two reasons; A) he is an older player who has lost his ability to play Defense or B) he is a younger player who couldn't play Defense to begin with. Either way, without the DH role, he would NOT have a job.

Since as early as 2005, people who watched the Cincinnati Reds said Ken Griffey Jr should NOT be playing Center Field. This was because of two reasons, A) he was no longer a quality Center Fielder (he was not getting to as many balls as before) and B) playing Defense in CF was contributing to his injuries (which put him on the DL many times).

With KGJ making such a large portion of total team payroll, it hurt the Reds for him to be playing bad Defense AND getting hurt and being on the DL. The only problem was, KGJ WHINED whenever the subject was brought up (moving to a corner Outfield spot).

Finally, the Reds got the cajones and forced KGJ to move to Right Field. His Defense didn't improve much but he DID stay healthy longer into the season and was able to produce on Offense.

This past year, KGJ went BACK to the Seattle Mariners (so as to get his EGO stroked) and was primarily a DH. Sure this helped sell some tickets (for those who grew up watching the "Kid" when they were young and he was in his prime) but it did NOT help the Mariners on the field.

Griffey struggled on Offense (even though he played VERY little Defense which means it took very little out of his legs) and the team paid for this. The Mariners had a better record than expected but needed more Offense, mainly from the DH position.

So, instead of signing KGJ (just to draw in some fans who might not have attended) the Mariners woulod have been BETTER off signing a BETTER player who would have helped them score more Runs.

More Runs scored would have meant more Wins. More Wins would have meant MORE fan interest for longer in the season and higher attendance.

This is where the Yankees are going to get into trouble in the next few years when guys like Posada and Jeter become highly paid DH's who fail to produce on the field up to what they are getting paid.

Sure the Yankees can AFFORD to pay these guys whatever they want BUT what would the FANS rather have; memories of Posada and Jeter failing and being shells of their former selves or Wins and World Championships?

[Irwin Fletcher]

I agree about Griffey. As much as I like him as a player, bringing him back for 2010 was a mistake, as he was not really a contributor in 2009.

As a Yankees fan, I'm hoping Posada retires at the end his current deal (2011?) so that there isn't an awkward situation when he's too old to catch or DH. I'm more optimistic about Jeter and the fact that his skill set will probably age more gracefully than Posada's. Either way, the Jeter situation will be expensive and complicated, for Yankees brass and fans alike.

[dstudeba]

It's just a fact of life in the AL that you have to pay position player salary to a guy who only hits.

So how is this different from what the author is saying? Paying a position player salary to a guy who only hits is overpaying them. Just because it is done doesn't mean it makes sense or is a fact of life.

[JohnBrownsElbow]

My two main problems with this article:

1. DH salaries are going to be higher because DHs tend to be older, overpaid position players who are too old/injured to play in the field anymore.

2. It appears he's including Andruw Jones' $22 milllion 2009 salary as a Texas Ranger DH in there. This isn't fair since the Dodgers, a National League team, paid basically all of this. And actually, I think they're paying it out over a few years, aren't they? If you take that out, it knocks the average DH salary down to around $6.6 million, I think.

[Rich Klein]

Please move this to the cooler talk section; that's why we have that section.

This is not worth keeping on this board!

Regards
Rich

[Jim VB]

Please move this to the cooler talk section; that's why we have that section.

This is not worth keeping on this board!

Regards
Rich


LOL! Oooh, you're gonna get a death threat email!

[Irwin Fletcher]

dstudeba,

It's different because the author's assertion, based on the salary figures relative to WAR, is: "don't blow your cash on designated hitters."

Let's say the average position player costs $1M per WAR. A DH may cost $2M per WAR on average because they do not make a contribution defensively. So you're a GM and you decide to splurge and spend $8M on a DH, which gets you 4 WAR.

On the other hand, if you follow the author's advice and "don't blow your cash" on a DH and spend only $2M, that would get you (in this hypothetical league) only 1 WAR.

The difference between these two DHs could make the difference between going to the postseaon or not.

It is a fact of life that you need a DH in the AL; every AL team must pencil in a player in that position every day. If you decide to use your AAA first basemen in that spot because, as the authors suggests, you shouldn't "overpay" for a DH, you are compromising your competitiveness. So, in a lot of ways, it does make sense to spend on a good DH.

And I agree that this belongs in the Water Cooler section. How do you move a thread?

[Leon]

Please move this to the cooler talk section; that's why we have that section.

This is not worth keeping on this board!

Regards
Rich

Rich, gotcha covered. A little bit of off topic is fine on the main board, for everyday contributors. This could be an interesting discussion. best regards

p.s.....death threat sent :D (j/k)

[timzcardz]

Personally, I have a hard time taking seriously anything that is written that includes the phrase "just $4.66 million."

Since when did "$4.66 million" become "just," especially when talking about a salary?

[dstudeba]

It is a fact of life that you need a DH in the AL; every AL team must pencil in a player in that position every day. If you decide to use your AAA first basemen in that spot because, as the authors suggests, you shouldn't "overpay" for a DH, you are compromising your competitiveness. So, in a lot of ways, it does make sense to spend on a good DH.



It is a fact of life that you need a DH in the AL, not that you have to overpay for it. If you pay less for a DH, it compromises your competitiveness at that position, but you can now use the money more effectively in another position which according to the author will raise your team competitiveness.

[Jim VB]

First off, I don't care what any team pays any player. However I have always thought teams emphasized the wrong qualities when selecting a DH. I hate the Jason Giambi/David Ortiz type of one-dimensional player (hit with power). Hitting 30 HR's while batting .240 with 180 strikeouts shouldn't be good enough.

As opposed to a five-tool player these guys are one-tool players (hit with power). Even with two bad knees, Matsui was at least a two-tool player for the Yankees (and you could argue that he's smart enough to add baserunning in to the mix, even though he's slowed by injury.)

If you use that five-tool analogy for superstardom, then the star DH should be a three-tool guy every time.

[Jim VB]

p.s.....death threat sent :D (j/k)


It just doesn't carry the same weight coming from you, Leon.

[Rich Klein]

As he KNOWS where I live :D

Regards
Rich

[teetwoohsix]

At first,I was real excited when the Dodger's picked up Jim Thome as a DH,even though it was so late in the season-I thought this may catapult the Dodgers into final victory.By no means would I take away anything from Big Jim,for he is an awesome powerhouse hitter by any means,but when it came down to the wire-nothing worth mentioning.I can't remember what they are paying him-probably way more than they should've......................

[Jim VB]

At first,I was real excited when the Dodger's picked up Jim Thome as a DH,even though it was so late in the season-I thought this may catapult the Dodgers into final victory.By no means would I take away anything from Big Jim,for he is an awesome powerhouse hitter by any means,but when it came down to the wire-nothing worth mentioning.I can't remember what they are paying him-probably way more than they should've......................




National League teams should probably avoid picking up DH's, at any point in the season. :D

[teetwoohsix]

:eek::eek::eek:You are correct JimVB,and even my wife said"Clayton,we only use a DH in the playoffs........"What do I know anyways.....................