Grading and market perceptions

[jlynch1960]

The thread about the Cobb going from an SGC 88 to Authentic got me thinking. Most of the posts seemed to want to blame either the collector or SGC for making a costly mistake. All I know is two (or more) humans were involved and, that being said, an error is not surprising.

I think the real issue is that we are collectively driven to place way too much emphasis on grading. The market sets price bands around various grades and, when that happens, we stop looking at the card itself and are driven by the grades (with some exceptions). I see graded cards all the time that look way undersized yet they fetch the price they do because they're slabbed. In this case, ten plus thousand dollars of value was "lost" because a third person said "whoops, my bad," yet the consensus seems to be that the card looks fine. How perverse is that! In a way, we're all to blame because we've been forced, largely I think by the internet, to surrender our individual judgments about the value of a card to the graders.

To my way of thinking, it's an opportunity to get a fantastic looking Cobb at a fraction of the price you'd pay for one that had, perhaps, another 1/64 of an inch of border. I don't like trimming as much as the next guy, but I do like cards with great eye appeal.

Come to think of it, I'll probably bid on it.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[barrysloate]

All good points. Fact is no matter how many times we repeat the mantra "buy the card, not the holder", the number on that card means everything. And if you can get a T206 Cobb to bump from an 8 to an 8.5, you just made yourself a boatload of money.

I agree that at the top end the hobby has become way too dependent on the grading services. It's not going to change however. The only antidote is that the graders have to be ever so vigilant with high grade, high dollar cards. Mistakes made with 15K tobacco cards are really not acceptable.

[Potomac Yank]

This community is made up of worshippers of the entombing masters of the corners & sides, and those that can grade their own cards.
AKA ... Invester/flippers & Collectors. :)

As one of the latter, all I care about, is filling an empty slot in the set.
I prefer to keep it as a hobby ... and let you worry about your market.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[Scott T]

Some would say I have wasted a lot of money having my low grade T206's slabbed. Perhaps they are correct. I do, however, like the constistency and presentation value slabbed cards present.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/scottopotamus/Baseball%20Sets/1909-11%20T206/37HeinieBerger.jpg

[HRBAKER]

IMO when you get to a place where you are willing to spend thousands and tens of thousands of dollars for differences in a card that it takes a neutron microscope to detect, then it has become about more than the card. Personally I don't have the resources or the stomach for that but that is what the top end of the hobby has become and I mean top-end from a grading perspective. There is nothing right or wrong about it but in turn it is wholly dependent at that point on the TPG companies and their ability to do a good, consistent and un-biased job.

BTW, to my thinking it is a matter of time probably bf the Cobb in question is back in a numbered holder.

[Rich Klein]

1) They do "protect" the cards from various human mistakes. I realize, and trust me, I do, that seeing, smelling and generally appreciating a raw card is nice. However; a graded card is protected from the vagaries of everyday issues. When I was still at Beckett; we had a story of cards slabbed in BGS holders that survived Katrina where who knows how many raw cards were lost forever.

2) Since we are only temporary "Keepers" of these pieces of cardboard. Having cards graded makes it easier for any future generations to sell these cards if they have no interest in cardboard.

3) Graded cards are easier to buy/sell/trade on the internet. With the decline of shows/stores and in-person auctions; seeing a card with an SGC 40, PSA 3or BVG 3 grade gives me a good general idea of the condition. I do understand that cards can appear better than their technical grade but at least their vg is going to be closer to your vg which is closer to my vg than doing the same for a raw card.

Regards
Rich

[PEEK enterprises]

This article was in the Wall Street Journal a week or so ago and while it's coin related, just about everything in the article closely reflects the current market and activity for graded sports cards. Take note of the # of submissions being reviewed daily and the # of graders doing so.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703811604574533732182243424.html

[barrysloate]

No way 20 graders can grade 12,000 coins a day, and get it right. They're probably making a ton of errors.

[Potomac Yank]

A card in a holder does look nice, and it is protected, but what is it protecting?

When the graders came into play after marketizing (my word) the numismatic hobby, their reason for doing so was uniformity of the grades given by the pre grading dealers of that time.

I luv comedy, and as it has turned out, we have NO uniformity among the grading groups, even within their own ranks.

They all know about corners, and sides, but when it comes to different card sets ... It's a crap shoot. :D

Folks, in the old days, if a dealer quoted you a grade that you didn't quite agree on ... you simply moved on to another dealer.

Now a days, the folks that aren't much into grading their own, will go by what the master of sides and corners will guesstimate the card to be.

We have found out that when a grader makes a mistake, it can be loud, and it could cost mucho coinage of the realm.

So if you don't know what the holder is protecting ... It could be expensive.
But I'll leave that to the Marketeers (my word) :) .

[marvjung]

I refuse to be a slave to SGC, PSA, REACH, Pro, or any other grader.

I buy strictly for the card; I get them slabbed only for protection and presentation purposes (I prefer SGC because the slabs look much sharper).

I buy cards whether they're beaters or not (I know many collectors buy based on whether they are high grade or not).

I buy cards because I REALLY, REALLY like them; even with the funky stamps on the back.

I buy cards because they're nostalgic and represent an era of sports where less scientific involvement existed (steroids, sports science, Nike, Gatorade, etc) and players played the game because they enjoyed it.

I buy cards because partly, it's a great hobby.

In other words, I BUY THE CARD, NOT THE SLAB.

[Rich Klein]

[QUOTE=Potomac Yank;763962]A card in a holder does look nice, and it is protected, but what is it protecting?

You are protecting the cards from accidents. Every time you are with a raw card; something may (although not usually) happen to that card. If a card is in a holder; then it is protected from the possibility of human error (usually).

I never stated such a decision was right or wrong (in fact; I praised the idea of raw cards) BUT it is a very valid and frankly prudent reason to put a card into a slab.

Regards
Rich