New idea for a collection -- help me build the want list

[paulcarek]

My 9-year-old son and I have been thinking about starting a collection of "players on the wrong side of history." At the top of our want list are Fred Merkle (whose "boner" cost the Giants the 1908 pennant) and Charley Root (who served up the Babe's Called Shot). Ralph Branca, Mickey Owen, and Wally Pipp also fit the bill.

My question to you guys is, what other players do you think we should add to the list? Feel free to suggest a specific card, too.

[birdman42]

Paul,

Great idea for a theme. I'd add Carl Mays.

If you want to get more modern, Bill Buckner comes to mind.

Bill

[barrysloate]

Fred Snodgrass and Matt Holliday come to mind.

[Robextend]

Ralph Terry & Leon Durham

[Jacklitsch]

Steve Bartman

[Kawika]

Tom Zachary (served up Ruth's 60th homer)
Clarence Mitchell (batted into Wambsganss' triple play, 1920 WS)
Ray Chapman (wrong side of Carl Mays)
Eddie Waitkus (wrong side of a bullet)
Ed Delahanty (wrong side of Niagara Falls)

[paulcarek]

These are great. Keep 'em coming!

[slidekellyslide]

Clarence Mitchell (batted into Wambsganss' triple play, 1920 WS)


Mitchell wasn't the only Nebraskan to make an out in that triple play...Otto Miller was tagged out running from first.


Clarence Mitchell prior to a spring training game in New Orleans
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/The%20Players/00newo22.jpg

[alanu]

Wally Pipp
Al Downing
Sadly, Donnie Moore

[teetwoohsix]

Maybe any player involved in the Chicago Black Sox scandal..............

[bcbgcbrcb]

Jack Chesbro during his 41-win season..........

[FrankWakefield]

In about nine years, when your son is older, you could add Fritz Peterson and Mike Kekich to the list.

[ctownboy]

Well,

If you want some modern players whose cards would be easier to find and not cost too much, you could go after the players who have either admitted to taking steroids and/or banned PED's or those suspected of doing so.

This would allow you to have future Hall of Fame players, super stars, MVP's, tragiedies (Ken Caminiti SP?) along with regular guys who were just trying to get an edge to either make it to the Big Show or stay in the Majors a little longer.

You could use these guys as examples of what NOT to do and as a teaching tool. I have tried to do this with my Nephews (though I don't know how successful I have been since they consider it "preaching" to them).

Just an idea,

David

[cardinalcollector]

Dock Ellis, Steve Blass, Lyman Bostock, Daryl Kile, Josh Hancock, Flint Rhem, Mike Kekich, Fritz Peterson, Pete Rose, Don Wilson, Glenn Burke, Dave Dravecky, Charlie Peete, Harry Agannis, Mark Fidrych.

[Bosox Blair]

A few sad ones:

J.R. Richard

Kirby Puckett

Tony Conigliaro


Cheers,
Blair

[Bosox Blair]

in about nine years, when your son is older, you could add fritz peterson and mike kekich to the list.

Too funny...!!!

[mcap100176]

George Brett for Pine Tar

Randy Johnson hitting the bird http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPxeGkPeR90


Chuck Finley & Tawny Kitaen http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/finleydec1.html


Mike Torrez for Bucky Dent HR

[sfmays24]

If you want to include Managers... how about Dusty Baker for taking Russ Ortiz out of Game #6 of the 2002 World Series when he had a shutout going... then, told him to take the ball when he left the mound as if the game was in the bag.

[Jantz]

Pete Rose

oops..I see now that he was already mentioned. Oh well, I guess Pete should have a post all for himself.

[uffda51]

In about nine years, when your son is older, you could add Fritz Peterson and Mike Kekich to the list.

Mike and Fritz. #6 on the ESPN list of all-time shcocking moments in baseball history.

All kidding aside, a great idea for a collection.

[mark evans]

Chuck Stobbs. He gave up a tape-measure homer to the Mick that is commemorated in the 1961 Topps set. I have the card signed by Stobbs (incidentally, one of the two major leaguers to have graduated from my high school, the other being Hank Foiles, his battery mate). Bought the card from Huggins and Scott store in Wheaton, MD many years ago.

[tbob]

Dang! Tawny Kitaen used to be such a babe, she looks horrible now, even discounting that it is a mug shot.

[rfurnish]

Not sure if all these qualify...

Heinie Zimmerman got ejected five times over a course of 30 days...mainly for cussing out umpires

Zack Wheat once kicked a ball into the stands allowing the other team to score three runs, costing his team the game. Later in his career, it once took him five minutes to round the bases after he hit a home run...he pulled a muscle and his legs gave out. He had to rest at second base for a couple minutes before he could finish rounding the bases.

Red Murray was once fined $100 by John McGraw for hitting a home run....Murray had been given the bunt signal.

On a different occasion, McGraw once fined Christy Mathewson for having poor control...Mathewson threw a dinner roll at McGraw, but accidentally hit McGraw's date instead.

Jerry Downs became infamous for armed robbery during the depression.

Jack Powell once hit a heckler with a fastball, knocking out four teeth.

The list of strange stories is almost endless for Rube Waddell.

All of these colorful characters can be found in the T206 set.

[tedzan]

Herb Score and Gil McDougald....both of these guys were never the same after that fateful night on May 7, 1957
at Cleveland's Municipal Stadium when McDougald's sharp line drive struck Score in the face.


TED Z

[iggyman]

I have one word for you and your son.........Peckinpaugh!!!

I believe that "Eight Errors" in a seven-game world series is more then qualified for enshrinement.

Lovely Day...

[wolterse]

I'm shocked that no one has mentioned this one but you have to include the chicago white sox players caught up in the 1919 world series scandal!

Eddie Cicotte, Buck Weaver, Chick Gandil, Swede Risberg, Lefty Williams, Joe Jackson, Hap Felsch, and Kid Gleason.

[GoldenAge50s]

Willard Hershberger--the only major leaguer to commit suicide during the course of a season.

[slidekellyslide]

I'm shocked that no one has mentioned this one but you have to include the chicago white sox players caught up in the 1919 world series scandal!

Eddie Cicotte, Buck Weaver, Chick Gandil, Swede Risberg, Lefty Williams, Joe Jackson, Hap Felsch, and Kid Gleason.

Fred McMullin thanks you for substituting Kid Gleason as the 8th man out. :D

You could also include Joe Gedeon of the St Louis Browns who became the "9th man out" for his participation in the Black Sox scandal.

[Steve D]

Mitch Williams - gave up Joe Carter's homerun in the 1993 World Series.


Steve

[slidekellyslide]

Len Koenecke was on the wrong side of a fire extinguisher that ended his life in midair over Toronto.

http://www.thedeadballera.com/Obits/Obits_K/Koenecke.Len.Obit.html

It may be nearly impossible to find a card of his though as I think the 1932 NY Giants Schedule Postcards might be the only one he appeared on???

[rfurnish]

Hal Chase, Ty Cobb, & Tris Speaker have all been mentioned in game fixing discussions as well.

[Pup6913]

I have not seen Cobb on this list anywhere. May have missed it but heres my reason for a Cobb vote.

On May 15, 1912, Cobb assaulted a heckler, Claude Lueker, in the stands in New York. Lueker and Cobb had traded insults with each other through the first three innings, and the situation climaxed when Lueker called Cobb a "half-nigger." Cobb, in his discussion of the incident (My Life in Baseball: The True Record, Ty Cobb and Al Stump, Doubleday, 1961, pp. 131–135), avoided such explicit words, but alluded to it by saying the man was "reflecting on my mother's color and morals." Cobb stated in the book that he warned Highlanders manager Harry Wolverton that if something wasn't done about the man, there would be trouble. No action was taken. At the end of the sixth inning, after being challenged by teammates Sam Crawford and Jim Delahanty to do something about it, Cobb climbed into the stands and attacked Lueker, who it turns out was handicapped (he had lost all of one hand and three fingers on his other hand in an industrial accident). When onlookers shouted at Cobb to stop because the man had no hands, Cobb reportedly replied, "I don't care if he has no feet!"

[Pup6913]

guy above beat me by seconds

[Mark]

In the 1917 World Series, the White Sox win if they take game 6. Felsch hits a fly to right which is dropped by Davey Robertson. When the throw comes in from the outfield, Rube Benton, Bill Rariden and Walter Holke faill to cover home and Collins scores the decisive run. Max Flack muffed a play that made him the goat of the 1918 Series. 1919 is infamous. In 1924, in the 12th inning of game 7, Hank Gowdy tripped over his own mask and didn't catch a foul pop. Next thing you know, a grounder to third bounces over Freddie Liindstrom's head, a run scores, and the Giants lose the Series. The next year, AL MVP Roger Peckinpaugh commits 8 errors as the Senators fall to the Pirates in 7 games. And then in 1926 there was that foolish stolen base attempt by that Ruth guy.

[paul]

Bill Buckner. Or better yet, the real goat of the 1986 series, John McNamara. After taking Buckner out for defensive reasons in every post season game, McNamara admitted he left him in for the final inning of game 6 so that he could be on the field to celebrate the world series championship. What a dope.

You could also include Al Downing for serving up Hank Aaron's #715.

And Harry Frazee (did I remember his name correctly) for selling Babe Ruth. But I don't think he has any cards.

Any member of the 1899 Cleveland Spiders, by far the worst team in history.

[Steve D]

I just thought of another one:

Eddie Waitkus.

His shooting and subsequent comeback, was the basis for The Natural by Bernard Malamud, as well as the subsequent movie starring Robert Redford.


Steve

[bobbvc]

Again, more modern, but Eric Show could be the centerpiece of this collection. Check him out on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Show

[FrankWakefield]

Hey Dan and Paul, Len Koenecke is on one of the 4in1 Exhibits. I chased after one for several years, and finally got one. I'll try to dig him out and post a scan. He's also on one of those cards of all of the Dodgers, which I think was issued through Target stores in sheets in the early 90s.

[canjond]

Herb Score and Gil McDougald....both of these guys were never the same after that fateful night on May 7, 1957
at Cleveland's Municipal Stadium when McDougald's sharp line drive struck Score in the face.


TED Z

You could also add McDougald to the list for the unfortunate circumstances surrounding him and Bob Cerv in batting practice.

[HexsHeroes]

.

Eddie Grant.


Elmer Gedeon and Harry O'Neill too, but I am not aware of any sportscards existing for them.

[yanksfan09]

I don't think this one was mentioned : Ray Caldwell

I believe he was struck by lightning on the pitchers mound during a game, and went on to finish the game.

[kmac32]

All of the Cub teams since the last world series winning team. especially the 1969 Cubs.

[Jacklitsch]

In memory of Elmer Gedeon and Harry O'Neill killed in WW II and Eddie Grant killed in WW I and the many other major leaguers who served our country.

[thxforthebp]

A couple more sad ones
Tim Crews
Steve Olin
Bobby Ojeda the only one to survive the accident

[Kawika]

Mustn't forget Harvey Haddix.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/bbbofsfirstclass/holygrailcards/websize/BT%20Haddix%20Pitches.jpg

[baseball tourist]

John Rocker (embarrasing)

Jose Canseco (even more embarrasing)

Clemens

[jmk59]

Vic Wertz, who hit that long fly to centerfield so Willie Mays could make "The Catch".

J

[FrankWakefield]

Well it has taken me some time to dig it out...

A 1934 4on1 Exhibit... took me about a dozen years to get one. The first one I found on eBay went for way beyond what I thought it was worth.

Len Koenecke IS on a card!!!

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/greatwake/Dodgers4in1ExhibitKoenecke.jpg

[Jim VB]

Len Koenecke was on the wrong side of a fire extinguisher that ended his life in midair over Toronto.

http://www.thedeadballera.com/Obits/Obits_K/Koenecke.Len.Obit.html

It may be nearly impossible to find a card of his though as I think the 1932 NY Giants Schedule Postcards might be the only one he appeared on???

I missed this thread the first time around. Thanks to Frank for bumping it.

They're not impossible to find, but damn difficult.

[FrankWakefield]

Wow, Jim. That is one fine card. If that one is replacing one you have that is raggedy, folded, and the like, please contact me. I could find a home for one of those.

[Brian Van Horn]

Glenn Wright deserves to be mentioned as well and not just on a four on one. He had a gym accident in Pittsburgh in the late 1920's and was never the same.

Also, let's not forget about the third base human traffic jam of Dazzy Vance, Chick Fewster and Babe Herman.

[brickyardkennedy]

Benny Kauff - Banned for life by Landis for being a member of a car theft ring.
Picked off first base, three times in one game.

Paul Hines - Arrested for shoplifting

[Brian Van Horn]

Milt Pappas for two reasons:

1. He was traded for an aging Frank Robinson
2. He had a perfect game for 8 2/3 innings before a disputed walk.

[BleedinBlue]

Dennis Eckersley for giving up Kirk Gibson's HR in Game 1 of the Series.

Chuck Dressen for demanding a multi-year contract from the Dodgers and promptly being replaced by Walter Alston.

Dan Bankhead for being the 2nd (and generally forgotten) black player in the NL.