MGHPro
11-14-2009, 07:46 PM
Recently, there has been a lot of talk about early Hillerich and Bradsby non 125 bats being used by professionals. These models include the 40k Kork Grip, the top of the line model 250 and the early decal bats . While there is not a doubt in my mind that professional players used these models, my concern is that, the bats that are being consider Pro Model due to no inch marks on the knob were also offered to the public. I have never seen a JF Hillerich and Son bat or a Hillerich and Bradsby -.- with inch marks on the knob. Later decal bats featuring the -.- logo were designated with model numbers such as 40 TC (Ty Cobb), 40 JJ (Joe Jackson) and so on making them store models, but still I have never encountered one of these bats with inch marks on the knob. Are they Pro model? No, but what does this show, early bats were not always stamped with inch marks. Take a -.- 40 BR of Babe Ruth. I have owned three and none had inch marks on the knob.
These are just a few of the examples that I can talk about from firsthand experience. Hillerich and Bradsby offered 250,40k’s and decal bats to the public, so how can we determine which ones were for professional use and which ones were for public usage?
Please realize that I am not arguing that non 125 bats were used by the pros because they were. There are pictures of players with 40k’s and Decal bats and Babe Ruth order 250’s. What I am saying is there no way to be 100% certain that a bat was used by a professional unless there is ironclad provenance.
If anyone can provide a picture of a Hillerich and Son or a H&B -.- 40k or 250 WITH INCH MARKS,(ANY PRE 1920 H&B BAT) I would love to see a picture. I think few, if any exist.
yanks12025
11-14-2009, 08:50 PM
Matt,
Have you seen any Babe Ruth store model from the 1918-1921 marking period with inch marks, because mine don't have them either.
MGHPro
11-14-2009, 09:12 PM
No, I haven't seen any 1918-21 Ruth bats with inch marks.
Matt
jboosted92
11-15-2009, 10:23 AM
Recently, there has been a lot of talk about early Hillerich and Bradsby non 125 bats being used by professionals. These models include the 40k Kork Grip, the top of the line model 250 and the early decal bats . While there is not a doubt in my mind that professional players used these models, my concern is that, the bats that are being consider Pro Model due to no inch marks on the knob were also offered to the public. I have never seen a JF Hillerich and Son bat or a Hillerich and Bradsby -.- with inch marks on the knob. Later decal bats featuring the -.- logo were designated with model numbers such as 40 TC (Ty Cobb), 40 JJ (Joe Jackson) and so on making them store models, but still I have never encountered one of these bats with inch marks on the knob. Are they Pro model? No, but what does this show, early bats were not always stamped with inch marks. Take a -.- 40 BR of Babe Ruth. I have owned three and none had inch marks on the knob.
These are just a few of the examples that I can talk about from firsthand experience. Hillerich and Bradsby offered 250,40k’s and decal bats to the public, so how can we determine which ones were for professional use and which ones were for public usage?
Please realize that I am not arguing that non 125 bats were used by the pros because they were. There are pictures of players with 40k’s and Decal bats and Babe Ruth order 250’s. What I am saying is there no way to be 100% certain that a bat was used by a professional unless there is ironclad provenance.
If anyone can provide a picture of a Hillerich and Son or a H&B -.- 40k or 250 WITH INCH MARKS,(ANY PRE 1920 H&B BAT) I would love to see a picture. I think few, if any exist.
Ok...Inch marks were not seen on bats pre-1916 for sure. However, i do see 40 J.J during the 1911-16 era ( which i know believe is more 1914-1916 due to the research seen by the "CO" and the "Co"... This is a good question. I have seen non-handturned pre-16 decal bats... the "MADE BY" is key...
as for 40k's...i believe the 1914-1915 era, (with signature's of players) are pro-models... I believe there is a total of 4 or 5, that i have ever seen... 2 cobbs, and a Joe Jackson..and maybe 1 or 2 others... Now, this was a more expensive bat, but you would figure a there would be a plethora more in the market...
I think each of these bats have to stand on there own Merit, but there are still some un-answered questions. I for one, based on my reasearch, and that done of Dave Grob at MEARS...believe the Cork Grip bat was a test and tune to get into Market, after Cobb felt it would assist his hitting. (Sporting News 1913). Since Cobb had a contract with H&B, i would assume between the 2 of them, someone had noticed Cobb continiously using tape, and either Hillerich or Cobb, said "Boy it would be nice to have that grip, already on the bat...." and the thought of "cork" would reduce the "impact" brought to the hitters hands. After seeing Toby's bat, with the "Patent Pending" and then mine that has teh Patent Date of Sept 14th, you can see H&B was trying to corner the market, much the way competitive companies do today with new products (See the Iphone /Driod/Sprint..)
What I would love to see would be H&B marketing campaigns or internal business documents showing how the Kork Grip bat (decal as well, i guess) was brought to the company profile, marketed, produced..etc...
Anyone up for a trip to the H&B archives :) ?