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Jim VB
11-03-2009, 02:31 PM
We went a month without a post in this category. Rob D.'s been on top long enough!

Does anyone know how many sheets they used to print the 1980-81 Topps Basketball set? They are the standard 132 cards to the sheet, but 176 cards to the set. So... obviously multiple sheets, some double prints (or triples), and some short prints.

Here's mine:

jmoran19
11-04-2009, 01:56 PM
As far as I know, no short prints or dp's. A true uncut sheet is 264 cards. For the 80/81 set they were print in sections of 44 cards each (3x44 = 132).

The sheet you posted shows that the cards in rows 1 thru 4 were printed again in rows 9 thru 12. FYI this looks like the right half of a 264 card sheet. The left half would then have rows 5 thru 8 printed twice (top 1/3 and bottom 1/3 of the sheet). Rows 1 thru 4 would only be printed once in the middle of the sheet, therefore this makes a total of 88 unique cards printed 3 times each.

Then topps rearranged the layout for some reason, can't remember why off the top of my head, maybe a different printer? Anyway, the print layout was the same as mentioned above. 88 + 88 = 176.

John

Jim VB
11-04-2009, 07:29 PM
Thanks John. But I'm not sure I understand. My sheet is the standard size for all Topps sheets from 1957 on. There is no way that this is a half a sheet. They could not have handled a sheet with 264 cards. It would have been too wide for the presses they were using or to long and too unwieldy to handle.


So if your other info is correct (and I want to digest it a bit) then there were two sheets printed for this set.


Where's Hornish when we need him?

:)

jmoran19
11-04-2009, 09:45 PM
Sorry but your wrong. A TRUE uncut sheet straight off the press was 264 cards. here is an example of a 1966 one, Topps would then cut them in half for easier handling:

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgallery/memberfoldersfh/jmoran19/uncutsheets/large/66series2_3.jpg

As you can see rows 1 thru 4 on the left side are repeated in rows 9 thru 12 on the left side and then in rows 5 thru 8 on the right half. Rows 5 thru 8 on the left side are repeated in rows 1 - 4 AND 9 thru 12 on the right side.

This is exactly how the 80/81 cards were printed for lets call the first run. 88 unique cards. Then they rearranged the cards and printed them again, another 88 unique cards. 88+88 = 176

jmoran19
11-04-2009, 10:29 PM
more examples of 264 card uncut sheets for ya:

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgallery/memberfoldersfh/jmoran19/uncutsheets/large/71series2full.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgallery/memberfoldersfh/jmoran19/uncutsheets/large/72series1.jpg

toppcat
11-05-2009, 08:22 AM
As far as I know, no short prints or dp's. A true uncut sheet is 264 cards. For the 80/81 set they were print in sections of 44 cards each (3x44 = 132).

The sheet you posted shows that the cards in rows 1 thru 4 were printed again in rows 9 thru 12. FYI this looks like the right half of a 264 card sheet. The left half would then have rows 5 thru 8 printed twice (top 1/3 and bottom 1/3 of the sheet). Rows 1 thru 4 would only be printed once in the middle of the sheet, therefore this makes a total of 88 unique cards printed 3 times each.

Then Topps rearranged the layout for some reason, can't remember why off the top of my head, maybe a different printer? Anyway, the print layout was the same as mentioned above. 88 + 88 = 176.

John

They may have reconfigured the three card layouts from 89-176, maybe to give a little more variety in the packs, or maybe to create a gap in the sequence to entice more purchases, who knows but there is another alternative. This set and the one from the following year were oddities as Topps was trying to save the line and began focusing on a regional approach for BKB. The 81/82's had a mainline national group off 66 cards and three regional subsets off 44 cards each. I wonder in the reconfiguration of the 80/81 trios was some type of regional realignment to test the process? It may not even have required grouping by regions but just to see how sheets could be cut and packed according to certain criteria. It's a stretch and I have no way to compare all the trios but I seem to recall reading about that somewhere, a long time ago. The 81/82 configuration could have been done with one 264 card master sheet, or up to three, depending how they co-mingled the national and regional cards.

Jim VB
11-05-2009, 09:15 PM
jmoran19,

Thanks. I wasn't really questioning you. Just finding it hard to believe. I've been "around" uncut sheets for years and had never heard of, or seen any in that size.

When I was a kid in the early 1960's my dad used to work for the A&P, at their factory in Bush Terminal in Brooklyn. Their trash hauler also had Topps on their route and would routinely bring by uncut sheets that had been tossed out. My brother and I would cut them up into cards. (I know. I know.)
We always had the most cards in the neighborhood, but with lots of miscuts. I'm talking 100's of sheets, every year.

Before this I was unaware that they were actually "half sheets."

Flash forward 40+ years and I have never seem a "full sheet" in an auction, only the 132 card versions.

Thanks again. Learn something new every day.

hcv123
11-23-2009, 11:08 PM
Those sheets are unbelievable! How long do you own them? Where (auction, collector, sanitation worker) did you get them?

jmoran19
11-26-2009, 12:26 PM
Those sheets are unbelievable! How long do you own them? Where (auction, collector, sanitation worker) did you get them?

Sorry, should have stated that I don't own any of them. The 66 and 72 ones I believe where from Mastro auctions and the 71 sheet was on ebay.

vintagetopps
12-09-2009, 08:49 PM
Does someone have these sheets for sale? if not a picture would be great:)