Long time lurker with first question

[ksabet]

I am five cards away from completing a PSA graded 1938 Goudey set (Currently #9 on the registry). I haven't been putting together sets for very long and this has been a thoroughly enjoyable process that I expect to continue with future sets when this is done.

My question is that a few cards that I need are on ebay but the sellers won't budge from asking around 5-8 times what VCP or Ebay has as the completed sales for the last few years...Why is this?

Am I missing out on some hidden sales strategy? I offered about 15% above what any have sold for and it still seems I am not even close.

I used to work for a substantial auction company and was told when I worked there that some of these guys just clearly want to rip people off and will hold on to cards for years despite price fluctuations. I don't want to out the dealers but it seems to be consistent across all the material they have for sale and I am sure most know who they are.

Sorry if it seems I am whining, I don't have the connections of a lot of board members so the process of finding the last few cards has been sort of daunting.

Any help in understanding the process would be appreciated.

Also if any one can help find:

1938 Goudey

#250 Dimaggio
#252 Bonura
#262 Medwick
#274 Dimaggio
#280 Kennedy

It would be greatly appreciated. I am willing to pay even a little above market, but don't want to be ripped off. I have already scoped the buy/sell and it seems none are for sale so I thought I would ask here.

Thanks and look forward to participating further in the future.

Kiya

[egbeachley]

Don't buy from them. The moment you do it legitimizes the prices.

[shammus]

Hi Kiya, welcome aboard. You can also start a thread in the BST section about those final 33 Goudey's you need. Lots of Goudey collectors pay pretty close attention to the "'20's to '40's cards VBC Forum B/S/T" page that is listed there. Hopefully someone can help you out with at least a couple of those. Good luck.....

[HRBAKER]

[]What you have entered is known as Pre-War Buy-It-Now Museum on ebay. It is a sort of Show and Tell as opposed to Show and Sell. Keep looking you will find them.

[Leon]

Have you scoured ebay continually, contacted other Goudey Registry members, checked out as many major auctions as possible etc....?? There are some Goudey collectors on the board so maybe this post will help...Good luck and welcome aboard.




http://cdn.content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/00020449.gif (http://www.sweetim.com/s.asp?im=gen&lpver=3&ref=10)

[barrysloate]

Walk away from those ebay sellers, it isn't worth your aggravation...and welcome to the board.

[green rhino123]

I noticed this with the '38 Goudeys...
and I only want a few of em

they are priced higher than T206s and such
just plain wrong

[ksabet]

Thanks for all the quick responses. I have been checking almost weekly for about two years now and have been relatively successful at finding my price, but as you get down to a few, especially the Joe D's, it becomes tougher.

Just as an example there is a #280 Kennedy PSA 4 for $150. I checked VCP and the average of the last few is around $35 with $79 being the highest ever. I offered $60 and got a firm no.

Just seems like bad business to me, but I am no expert so thanks again.

[Matt]

Kiya - welcome to the forum!

I don't know the logic behind it, but as others have mentioned there are a good number of eBay sellers who won't budge from their BIN prices that are WAY over market. It gives a bad name to the whole eBay BIN category, which is unfortunate, as I used to list the cards I had to sell on eBay as BINs but haven't listed for a while since many people don't even look there anymore.

[Leon]

Just as an example there is a #280 Kennedy PSA 4 for $150. I checked VCP and the average of the last few is around $35 with $79 being the highest ever. I offered $60 and got a firm no.

Just seems like bad business to me, but I am no expert so thanks again.

Just have more patience. You will find this card in your price range.....Cards like these are a bit soft right now. If I were a set builder I wouldn't want to pay more for a (seemingly) common card than has ever been paid before. Quite the contrary, I would be looking for a deal on the low end. regards

[FrankWakefield]

My recollection is that about 20 years ago, or so, I'd find a card I'd been wanting in one of Larry Fritsch's catalogs, an old card. From experience, I knew 2 things, first was that it seemed that many of the cards I'd ordered from him were overgraded, and the second was that it was very easy to return any card I'd bought if I didn't like the condition or anything else about the card. A super easy return policy. He'd have a few cards, from time to time, that I just couldn't find anywhere else. Trouble was that they'd be priced quite a bit beyond what I thought the card was worth... which gets me to the point of just how badly do you desire the card. Too many times I've paid more than I thought a card was worth because I really wanted it. It is a balancing thing... I don't buy or collect a card because I think it is worth "X" dollars, I buy it because I want it. So at some point the card is the thing, not the money. Still, if you don't want the card that badly, then I wholeheartedly agree with that above about not legitimizing the insane BuyItNow prices on eBay.

Years ago I paid $120 for the Sinex T210 series 6 card... at the time I thought the card was worth about $25 to $30. I was annoyed at paying that much for it. I still am. But I wanted the card. And a week after I got it there was no way I'd sell it for $150 or so. Same holds true today. I wanted the card. And paying too much for cards is how I gathered in some that I have. If you're that enamored with the registry thing, then I think you'll eventually pay too much for some cards that you really want. So revive this thread in a couple of months, and let us know which cards you added at inflated prices. I won't ridicule such a purchase, I've been right there with you.

[Matt]

Frank - I think to a great degree, especially with cards more common then series 6 T210s, such as '38 Goudeys, eBay has become a great equalizer. If you knew there was a decent chance you'd be able to find that T210 sometime in the next month at market price, I doubt you would have paid Larry what you did. At the time, you had no other option.

[Howe’s Hunter]

has anyone noticed that Fritsch no longer even lists any T206 cards on line? It says the one-of-a-kind catalog is out of print, but you could fnd it online. But the link to it is missing. There were updated pages added within the last month or so, but no T206s.

I've called three times and left messages asking if they still sell them, or had moved away from the set, and have also e-mailed twice. Never a response.

[ksabet]

SO far I have not overpaid, but Frank brought up a great point. Do I go with desire or principle?

Seems to relate more than just cards huh?

[FrankWakefield]

Matt I agree with you on the 'supply' aspect... the a 38 Goudey is more plentiful than a T210. I agree, if the cards are available from time to time, then a bit of patience is in order.

Still, I'd not fault someone for paying what some would think is too much, just to get a certain card in hand. Doing that is card collecting for the card (or maybe the slab)... instead of buying because of a card's alleged value, or for some investment fallacy.

[Jim VB]

Kiya,

You're limiting your options by shopping for PSA graded only. On the card you mention, (#280) the PSA 4 is offered for $150, but there's an SGC 40 offered for $45. Buy it and cross it over.

Edited to add: http://cgi.ebay.com/1938-Goudey-Heads-Up-280-Vernon-Kennedy-SGC-40-3_W0QQitemZ380158074976


(Not my card. Just did a quick Ebay search.)


Edit #2- On this one, take a chance on a raw card. http://cgi.ebay.com/1938-Goudey-Heads-Up-252-Zeke-Bonura-Senators-Bk-200_W0QQitemZ350253673365

[Matt]

Edit #2- On this one, take a chance on a raw card. http://cgi.ebay.com/1938-Goudey-Heads-Up-252-Zeke-Bonura-Senators-Bk-200_W0QQitemZ350253673365

I don't think that one is going to grade too high - I've only seen the front, but there's a crease in the top left corner and what appear to be a stain between his legs. Back scan would be nice as well...

[nolemmings]

I agree that you should broaden your search options beyond PSA, if you have not done so already. You probably have developed a good eye for authenticity and grade, so SGC at a minimum and raw if you're confident. Then you can submit them to PSA. If you're into the high grade game of set registry, your options are more limited, as sellers think they have a captive market, but mid-grade on down should not be that difficult.

I also agree that paying those inflated prices only justifies the sale to seller and encourages him to keep up the practice. Many of these sellers truly don't need the cash and or otherwise don't much care if their cards sell at any reasonable pace or not. One seller in particular, who just got his own thread, had some domino disks at BIN for at least a year, which is about how long I've been watching them. When I offered a slightly discounted price on one or two of them, I got a polite but firm no--- now he has taken to actually BUMP the price on those. C'est la vie.

[ethicsprof]

welcome aboard!!
you already know that there is quite a bit of competent help and collegiality here.
glad that you are officially part of it.
all the best,
barry

[Potomac Yank]

Don't buy from them. The moment you do it legitimizes the prices.

*

I totally agree .....

Let it be part of their estate! :)

[Jim VB]

I don't think that one is going to grade too high - I've only seen the front, but there's a crease in the top left corner and what appear to be a stain between his legs. Back scan would be nice as well...

Grading high, or not, to me that would be better than no card at all. I was not approaching it purely from the registry side.

[Matt]

Grading high, or not, to me that would be better than no card at all. I was not approaching it purely from the registry side.

My bad - I thought that's what you meant by "take a chance." If I wanted to gamble on a card meeting a minimum grade I wouldn't pick that one.

[Jim VB]

My bad - I thought that's what you meant by "take a chance." If I wanted to gamble on a card meeting a minimum grade I wouldn't pick that one.

Nah! Just meant "take a chance" that it's not trimmed, or skinned, or something like that.

My point was that, I believe all 5 of the cards he's looking for are available on ebay, right now. Some at reasonable prices. He's making his search more difficult by creating limitations on himself to search for the right piece of plastic.

I do understand his point that some sellers set ridiculous BINs. So what. Work around them.


I guess your thought brings up another registry question. One I don't know the answer to. Would he rather have 100% completion, at a slightly lower average grade, or 90% completion at a higher grade.

[ksabet]

I have been lucky enough to find a couple of the cards and am in the process of working out a deal for the two Dimaggio's at a reasonable price with Joe's Vintage cards. They are SGC's 30 and 40 respectively.

It's nice to know there are still good people in this hobby. I will continue to update as I finish the set. Once again I appreciate all the help.

On a side note I noticed that seller yepbg had been talked about in a previous thread and he may be a nice enough guy, but when I asked him essentially the same question I asked to the board about the five-times-the-value-inflated-price of his PSA 4 Kennedy his response was:

"Kiya, your business is not welcome here. Your user ID has been added to my blocked bidders list. Have a nice day."

Guess he didn't like the inquiry.

Enjoy the weekend.

[nolemmings]

Kiya,

In case it wasn't obvious, he was the seller I was referring to when I told how he responded to a request for discount on his BIN by saying no and then raising the price further. Since he has almost 1500 auctions running, ALL OF THEM BIN, he is basically saying he won't take your money at even his inflated prices. Given that he is taking that approach, he will never see a dime of my $$$ either. Time to just move along.

[3-2-count]

Kiya, you've found one of the best dealers in the business.
Joe's Vintage Sportscards is top notch. Good luck!!!

[terjung]

Kiya, you've found one of the best dealers in the business.
Joe's Vintage Sportscards is top notch. Good luck!!!

I second that. Joe Y. is a good guy to deal with.

Brian

[tbob]

Kiya- Don't feel bad. You are right that Seller yepbg overprices his BINs and responds sarcastically and harshly at any attempts to try to buy his items at a slightly lower price. I quit tracking his items years ago.

[egbeachley]

How do we have several folks say he's a good guy but at the same time he's proving that he's an ass with overpriced cards?

[calvindog]

I agree re yepbg. His prices are ridiculous; when I've offered to pay only slightly more than what the card is worth he refuses to budge -- no matter how many times the same card doesn't sell month after month after month. I'm sure he's a swell guy but I hope he has a day job because he sure isn't selling much on ebay.

[Al C.risafulli]

Hey there:

I've been collecting '38 Goudey pretty heavily for about four years now. I've completed the set once in reasonably high grade in PSA holders, and now am rebuilding it in SGC holders.

The problem with '38 Goudey is one of supply and demand. The cards are simply difficult to come by in grades 4 and above, and sellers know that they can sit on them until a buyer comes along. The cards are very difficult for a dealer to replace in their inventory, so many of them are content to let them sit until a buyer is willing to pay their price.

My advice would be to wait until the cards come up for auction, and bid that way. Another sure bet is to wait for larger lots of them to appear in the major auctions and then win the lots, selling off the ones you don't need.

For the record, the #262 Medwick and the #280 Kennedy are really, really tough cards in grades EX or better. I haven't been able to upgrade my #262 Medwick, which was an SGC 5, for about three years. Last week I finally got a PSA 6 that I think should cross to SGC. That's a really tough card.

Also for the record, regardless of what anyone tells you, the low numbers are more difficult than the high numbers, particularly in higher grades.

Good luck finishing the set!

-Al

[ksabet]

Al,

I didn't know if I was the only one who felt this way, but the low numbered, despite their seemingly higher SMR price, have been way tougher for me to find than the higher numbers.

On a side note once again thanks to board members I have been able to locate 4 of the five cards I need and think that they will be in my possession soon. The one outlier is the Bonura.

Kiya

[ksabet]

Just wanted to thank everyone who helped me finish my 1938 Goudey set. After I get back a couple of crossovers I should be #6 on the PSA registry (I am #7 now I believe).

Being a collector can be a downer at times when the ugly business side rears its head, but this board provides a nice alternative for those who love the spirit of collecting. Thanks again.

Oh and if anyone has a 1938 Goudey wrapper I would be interested.

Kiya

[Jim VB]

Congratulations!

Where are you going next? (Got to find something to keep you busy!)

[ksabet]

I have been tempted to do a Ramly set although I have been dissuaded by friends who feel it is an impossible set. I am also interested in E105 and T3's.

Out of three above which would be the most realistic yet chase worthy and enjoyable?

[E93]

I think T3 is probably the most realistic. E105 has some incredibly tough (only 2-3 known) cards. There are a small group of E105s that are plentiful and are seen regularly. This misleads people into thinking the set must not be that tough. Most E105s are very tough, and some are obscenely tough. I am on the verge of giving up my quest.
JimB

[mcap100176]

Don't do Ramly. I was thinking about starting it early next year! haha.

Michael

[barrysloate]

Kiya- all three are incredibly difficult. T3 may be the only one that doesn't have a group of impossible cards. However, it is a very expensive set to complete in reasonably nice condition. The T204 can be completed without the square border cards, but if you include those it will be extremely hard to finish. And as Jim pointed out, the Mello Mints may not even be possible. You can find cards like the Knight anytime, but you can't find all the tough ones.

[dstudeba]

You should do the T3s as based on your Goudey story I think you would get very frustrated with the other two.

[JasonL]

Try the 1980 Topps! much less frustrating.

Also, wanted to chime in that the BIN phenomenon extends to post-war as well...picked up a handful of things lately, much of which went off at auction for prices that were closer top 50% of BIN listings.

Interesting commentary about the named sellers on this thread. I would generally agree with everyone's comments. Yepbg sounds like the Soup Nazi, but without a unique premium product, that barking strategy should fail in the long run (and the short and intermediate runs as well).

Either the T3 or the T204 seem like a fantastic next choice, but both too financially daunting for my personal tastes. Good luck with whatever you choose.

[ksabet]

Maybe I will try and do all three. Thanks for all the suggestions.

I look forward to participating on the board more often.

[edhans]

I can't resist another plug for the E90-1 set. 120 cards, great images, unique poses, and lots of hall of famers. There are about six levels of difficulty and the Jackson and the scarce HOFers (Wagner-throwing, Young-Cleveland, Walsh, Duffy, and Speaker) will set you back plenty, but they are available with a little perseverance. Best of luck in your next endeavor.