View Full Version : PayPal Charge Back Question
Qcards
10-15-2009, 11:28 AM
In a situation where PayPal does a charge back (happened to me a few times), does anyone know if they are allowed to go to your linked bank account or credit card if there are insufficient funds in your PayPal account?
I spoke with two different reps. at PayPal and neither one could tell me definitively.
Any help would be appreciated as this problem seems to be getting worse.
Thanks, Mike :confused:
Jim VB
10-15-2009, 11:32 AM
Read post #14 from this thread.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=116738
Sounds to me like they can not dip into your bank account (or charge a credit card) but they will exhaust any balance you have, throw your paypal account into a negative balance and then come after you for the difference.
At that point your options with Paypal are very limited.
D. Bergin
10-15-2009, 12:43 PM
Kind of scary how they threaten to go after the seller but so easily look the other way when a buyer blatantly and illegally rips somebody off with the papertrail evidence to back it up.
Whatever's the easiest way to recoup their own dollars I guess.
Paypal wants to act like a bank and a credit card company without taking the risks or following the same rules of a bank or credit card company.
Not to glamorize the banks and cc co.'s. They've done their share lately to stick it to every Tom, Dick and Harry. Merchants are being left to hold the bag more and more often lately it seems. It's a necessity to accept these forms of payment. The fees you paid to accept these forms of payment were a part of the cost to know you were participating in a safe transaction. That seems to no longer be the case.
They seem to be making it easier and easier for fraud without any risk to themselves, and I'm not sure why this is being allowed.
Kind of scary how they threaten to go after the seller but so easily look the other way when a buyer blatantly and illegally rips somebody off with the papertrail evidence to back it up.
Whatever's the easiest way to recoup their own dollars I guess.
Paypal wants to act like a bank and a credit card company without taking the risks or following the same rules of a bank or credit card company.
Not to glamorize the banks and cc co.'s. They've done their share lately to stick it to every Tom, Dick and Harry. Merchants are being left to hold the bag more and more often lately it seems. It's a necessity to accept these forms of payment. The fees you paid to accept these forms of payment were a part of the cost to know you were participating in a safe transaction. That seems to no longer be the case.
They seem to be making it easier and easier for fraud without any risk to themselves, and I'm not sure why this is being allowed.
Personally, I think cc's are still super safe.....Paypal still sucks.....but is the easy game...
HRBAKER
10-15-2009, 01:33 PM
Personally, I think cc's are still super safe.....Paypal still sucks.....but is the easy game...
Now I sell very little, but I only use paypal to pay, not to accept payment.
Jeff
Now I sell very little, but I only use paypal to pay, not to accept payment.
Jeff
I still use Paypal to receive some payments and send them....but I never have more than a few hundred dollars in that account. I would advise everyone to not keep more than you can risk in there. It's free to transfer funds to your bank account. I do it often.
I make a point to transfer anything out of my PayPal account at the end of the day. As long as they can't take it out of my linked bank account, it makes me feel a little safer.
GoldenAge50s
10-15-2009, 04:59 PM
If PayPal can go into your bank account to complete a purchase you have made (which they CAN), why couldn't they go into your account for another reason??
I'm not so sure that Post #14 tells the complete story!
Jim VB
10-15-2009, 05:08 PM
If PayPal can go into your bank account to complete a purchase you have made (which they CAN), why couldn't they go into your account for another reason??
I'm not so sure that Post #14 tells the complete story!
I'm certainly not 100% sure either, but the non-lawyer in me says that each and every time Paypal goes into your account they need your permission. That happens in one of two ways. First, you make a purchase but still have to go to the Paypal site and complete the transaction. This act gives them permission. The second way is if you have set up a recurring payment for some reason (a subscription for example.) This gives them multiple "permission" perhaps, unlimited permissions, until you cancel.
In the scenario outlined here, they do not have that legal permission.
GoldenAge50s
10-15-2009, 06:08 PM
AH-HA Jim! That may be it! (I certainly hope!)
I keep very little in my PPal acct & several times, to complete a purchase, they have taken my balance & then from my bank acct to make the full price!
BUT, you are right--I had to go to PayPal first to complete the trany, so I guess I was giving them permission! They would also go to the credit card as a 3rd option if there wasn't enough in the PP acct & the bank acct!
---and I do have a recurring monthly pymt for my EBay fees taken via my credit card!
Again--if that's the case then I DO feel better about the fact they have my CC & Bank Acct numbers!
4.4 Risk of Reversals, Chargebacks and Claims. When you receive a payment, you are liable to PayPal for the full amount of the payment plus any Fees if the payment is later invalidated for any reason. This means that, in addition to any other liability, you will be responsible for the amount of the payment, plus the applicable Fees listed in section 8 of this Agreement if you lose a Claim or a Chargeback, or if there is a Reversal of the payment. You agree to allow PayPal to recover any amounts due to PayPal by debiting your Balance. If there are insufficient funds in your Balance to cover your liability, you agree to reimburse PayPal through other means. If a sender of a payment files a Chargeback, the credit card issuer, not PayPal, will determine who wins the Chargeback.
and...
10. Your Liability - Actions We May Take.
10.1 Your Liability. You are responsible for all Reversals, Chargebacks, Claims, fees, fines, penalties and other liability incurred by PayPal, a PayPal User, or a third party caused by or arising out of your breach of this Agreement, and/or your use of the Services. You agree to reimburse PayPal, a User, or a third party for any and all such liability.
Liability for PayPal Buyer Protection Claims, and Buyer Complaint Policy Claims. If PayPal makes a final decision that you lose a Claim filed directly with PayPal, you will be required to reimburse PayPal for your liability. Your liability will include the full purchase price of the item and original shipping cost (and in some cases, you may not receive the item back). PayPal seller protection may cover your liability, see section 11 below.
Liability for claims filed directly with eBay through the eBay resolution process. If you are an eBay seller, eBay requires that you comply with the eBay resolution process. As such, you have provided eBay with permission to make a final decision on a claim that a buyer files against you directly with eBay. If eBay makes a final decision that you lose a claim, you agree to allow PayPal to remove funds from your PayPal Account in order to reimburse eBay for your liability. “Item not received" claims filed directly with eBay are not covered by PayPal Seller Protection. See eBay Buyer Protection policy for more information.
Opt-Out. If you do not want to allow PayPal to reimburse eBay for your liability, you may opt-out by calling eBay at 1-866-643-0898. Your opt-out will be effective within 3 Business Days. If you opt-out then eBay will not use your PayPal Account to recover amounts that you owe due to an eBay claim that you lost. This opt-out will not affect other amounts that you pay to eBay using your PayPal Account (such as your eBay fees).
10.2 Temporary Holds for Disputed Transactions. If a buyer files a Claim, Chargeback or Reversal on a payment you received, PayPal will place a temporary hold on the funds in your Account to cover the amount of the liability. If you win the dispute or the transaction is eligible for PayPal seller protection, PayPal will lift the temporary hold. If you lose the dispute, PayPal will remove the funds from your Account. This process also applies to claims that a buyer files directly with eBay through the eBay resolution process if your PayPal Account is your reimbursement method for buyer claims.
10.3 Reimbursement for Your Liability. In the event that you are liable for any amounts owed to PayPal, PayPal may immediately remove such amounts from your Balance. If you do not have a Balance that is sufficient to cover your liability, your Account will have a negative Balance and you will be required to immediately add funds to your Balance to eliminate the negative Balance. If you do not do so, PayPal may engage in collection efforts to recover such amounts from you.
10.4 Actions by PayPal. If we have reason to believe that you have engaged in any Restricted Activities, we may take various actions to protect PayPal, eBay, a User, a third party, or you from Reversals, Chargebacks, Claims, fees, fines, penalties and any other liability. The actions we may take include but are not limited to the following:
1. We may close, suspend, or limit your access to your Account or the Services (such as limiting access to any of your Payment Methods, and your ability to send money, make withdrawals, or remove financial Information);
2. We may contact buyers who have purchased goods or services from you, contact your bank or credit card issuer, and warn other Users, law enforcement, or impacted third parties of your actions;
3. We may update inaccurate Information you provided us;
4. We may refuse to provide our Services to you in the future;
5. We may hold your funds for up to 180 Days if reasonably needed to protect against the risk of liability; and
6. We may take legal action against you.
but it appears if you authorize or initiate a refund they can draw from your bank account.
Question :What if I use the Issue Refund link, but I don't have the total amount available in my PayPal balance?
Answer :When you send a refund using the Issue Refund link, PayPal draws the refund amount from your PayPal balance. If your PayPal balance does not cover the refund and you have a U.S. confirmed bank account:
* PayPal withdraws the entire refund amount from your primary confirmed U.S. bank account.
* The refund status is Pending until the funds clear.
If you PayPal balance account doesn't cover the refund and you don't have a U.S. confirmed bank account, you'll receive a message that you cannot issue a refund until your balance is sufficient.