View Full Version : OT / Cardinals miss chance to show class
FrankWakefield
10-10-2009, 07:25 PM
I just watched my Cardinals lose in the NLDS. I'm ok with that, I'm no longer greedy, their 2006 win is recent enough to tide me over for a while. Good for the Dodgers. Hope they do well.
What frustrates me is this: My recollection is that when the Cards beat the Dodgers in the 2004 NLDS, the Cards clinched in Los Angeles. And the Dodger players lined up, then went out on the field, and congratulated the Cards players, just like in a high school game today. That's the last time I saw that done on a major league field. It was special. The Cards had a chance to return the favor tonight. They missed it. No matter how frustrated they were with baserunning and fielding probems, with a lack of hitting, with losing, it was still a chance to show some class and return that kindness the Dodgers showed 5 years ago. Maybe they'll have that chance another day. I almost hope that next time the two meet in the playoffs that my Cards lose, just so they can make amends and show some class.
Sorry for the OT, I know this isn't old ballcards.
Sadly, class isn't something that professional sports in general is overflowing with. It would be nice, but you hardly see anything like that anymore.
calvindog
10-10-2009, 07:39 PM
Frank, the Cards also missed their chance on about 95% of the fastballs they saw tonight.
rdwyer
10-10-2009, 07:49 PM
California rules! Angels, Dodgers, Lakers, Ducks!
gashouse34
10-10-2009, 07:54 PM
I agree with u frank...I remember very well that series and I gained a lot of respect for the Dodgers after they did that...It would be nice to see that more often but it seems like an unspoken rule that clubs just don't do it
yawie99
10-10-2009, 08:31 PM
Maybe I'm just a sore loser/ungracious winner, but I was fine with the lack of reciprocity tonight. It was a nice moment in '04, but I don't think the post-series handshake could ever again have the same spontaneity and genuineness. Besides, we're five years on and I reckon that both teams have had a high degree of roster turnover. Maybe if the Cards lost to the Dodgers in '05, I might've expected the team to return the favor, but it would've seemed forced and unnatural tonight.
HRBAKER
10-10-2009, 08:36 PM
They would have probably missed their hands anyway. What a pathetic showing.
FrankWakefield
10-10-2009, 08:38 PM
I'm glad someone else remembers that... thank you for posting.
I Think there had to be some leadership on the Dodgers that evening (was it late afternoon?) to start that. I'd like to see a replay of that to see which Dodgers were at the front of that line. Maybe it was Jim Tracy, the manager, who got 'em up the steps and out there... The top 4 Dodgers on the payroll in '94 were Shawn Green ($16.67 mil), Darren Dreifort ($11.4 mil), Hideo Nomo ($9 mil), and Steve Finley ($7 ml). Maybe it was Finley and Green... Alex Cora made the last out, maybe he did it... Someone did. Whoever he is, baseball should honor him.
I guess it's kind of sad to see a lack of real "class" (in general) in professional sports. I'm a Yankee hater but I tell you what, I wish more players were like Jeter. He's class, personified. I don't mean to hijack the thread but I figured it was in the same spirit as the original post.
Cardinal fans are some of the best. I made it to a Cards game this year (in St. Louis) and I tell you what, those are some really great fans. Maybe the team could learn something from their fans.
kmac32
10-10-2009, 10:23 PM
being a diehard Cub fan, I have no sympathy for the Cardinals. Not a huge fan of the dodgers either but the played great ball all year and they do deserve to advance in the post season.
As to class, professional baseball does have something to learn from the fans in how to win and lose with humility. In reality, the fans are the ones that lose when there is no show of class from the pros. Maybe the players and MLB might show some respect with cheaper tickets and more accessibility from the players for younger fans. When is the last time you have seen a superstar giving and autograph to a kid?
I love baseball, but MLB needs to come back to reality!!!
Kmac
cardinalbaseballfan
10-10-2009, 10:36 PM
Here is an article from 2004 that gives some insight to the postgame handshake: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20041010&content_id=890451&vkey=ds2004news&fext=.jsp&c_id=null
As a fan of the game and sportsmanship, I loved it as well. I remember reading some follow-up in the St. Louis paper afterwards (Post-Dispatch) that the execs at MLB weren't pleased with the moment as it went against MLB's non-fraternization rule. I wish I could find that article now...
Here's another piece that speaks to my comment above. Take note of the final few paragraphs: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE3DE123AF93BA25753C1A9629C8B 63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
JasonL
10-11-2009, 05:49 AM
a Joe Torre team to do it
nor a Tony LaRussa team, for that matter
that kind of behavior just isn't there on the professional level of any sport on a consistent basis. The mercenary mindset is the norm. The team identity and cohesive attitude is greatly diminished in the modern era from anything that was seen previous to the advent of free agency. And I believe alot of things flew out the window with it.
timzcardz
10-11-2009, 06:31 AM
I didn't see that in '04, but it would be nice to see it regularly.
In the NYTimes article, near the end Nolan Ryan states ''This is my livelihood, and I have to be aggressive to pitch, and I can't like those guys when they're in uniform because I have one job to do. That's to get them out. That's not my nature to get beaten and walk over there and hug those guys.''
If you watch UFC fights, these guys literally beat the hell out of each other in fierce competition, but when it's over they shake, hug, etc.
It's a sport and it's about being competitive, but yet respectful of your opponent, their abilities, and accomplishments.
FrankWakefield
10-11-2009, 08:13 AM
Thank you, cardsfan, for those links. I knew I wasn't dreaming that...
So it was Larry Walker, with his Canadian roots and hockey ideas, who mentioned a handshake to Larussa, who spoke with Jim Tracy during the workouts before game 1; that's how it happened.
I can envision that Bob Gibson might have had second thoughts about a handshake, as well as Don Drysdale. But both of those guys were gentlemen, and both were intelligent, I'd like to think that they'd have done it, too, given a chance.
On a Cardinals blog it was mentioned that after the display of sportsmanship by the Dodgers and Cardinals in 2004, the Commissioner's office and the League office both commented that the handshakes were close to fraternization and should be discouraged, or that they didn't want that to happen any more, that teams shouldn't plan that, or words to that effect.
If that's what put the kibash to it, then I wish it would still happen, unplanned... at least in the final game of playoff series. I think the LDS and LCS are perfect places for it.
And I think Mr. Larussa and Mr. Torre ARE able to be good sportsmen, and that a handshake would not diminish their competitiveness.
calvindog
10-11-2009, 08:20 AM
I can envision that Bob Gibson might have had second thoughts about a handshake, as well as Don Drysdale. But both of those guys were gentlemen, and both were intelligent, I'd like to think that they'd have done it, too, given a chance.
No way would Bob Gibson have done this. Or Ty Cobb. Or many in the game before money changed the mentality of the modern player.
I'd rather see the DH rule abolished!
thekingofclout
10-11-2009, 08:35 AM
California rules! Angels, Dodgers, Lakers, Ducks!
I've lived in So Cal for 46 years and there are thousands of reasons why it rules, but none of them are for having some good/great sports franchises, I assure you.
sox1903wschamp
10-11-2009, 11:24 AM
California rules! Angels, Dodgers, Lakers, Ducks!
Wow, a Cali fan that cares about pro sports. Cool :)
chaddurbin
10-11-2009, 02:13 PM
there are definitely sports fans out west, you just wouldn't know it because espn only feature boston/new york highlights...
ChrisStufflestreet
10-11-2009, 02:42 PM
there are definitely sports fans out west, you just wouldn't know it because espn only feature boston/new york highlights...
Can you blame a network based in Connecticut -- halfway between NYC and Beantown -- from that bias?
Yes, there should be a semblance of "fairness" as it relates to treating sports organizations equally...but even the news media organizations in this country can't get it right, as they're merely part of the entertainment divisions of large corporations. Sports news organizations are no different; they're going to dance with the ones that brought them.
dennis
10-11-2009, 02:44 PM
leave the hand shaking to hockey. there is no hand shaking in baseball.