OT: Baseball historians -- a couple questions

[Anthony S.]

Was hoping someone could provide me with a couple approximate dates for the beginning/end of certain baseball traditions.

1) When did it become common practice for fans to be able to keep foul balls hit into the stands? And were there any specific teams who pioneered this practice and if so when? Did any teams (presumably smaller market) drag their feet?

2) When did fielders stop leaving their gloves on the field for the other team to use. I seem to remember seeing that happen in "8 Men Out." Was that an anachronism?

edited to add: IGNORE the "for the other team to use" part of the 2nd question. Lame assumption on my part.

[brickyardkennedy]

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_were_fans_first_allowed_to_keep_foul_balls_an d_what_incident_led_to_this_policy

I'm pretty sure the practice of leaving gloves on the field survived into the forties and maybe fifties, even. It definitely would not have been an anachronism in the film "Eight Men Out".

[Potomac Yank]

I recall seeing the gloves being left out on the field during the late 1940's.

However, this is the first time that I've heard that they were left there for the other teams use ..... not everyone is a lefty, or a righty, and besides, gloves are a very personal thing to a ball player.

[Anthony S.]

Thanks for clarifying that, Joe. Just an erroneous assumption on my part.

[whitehse]

One of my favorite shows of all time is the series HBO did some years back called "When It Was a Game." This show featured home movies of different baseball era's and I remember seeing many times that players well into the 1950's would toss their gloves on the field while heading back to the dugout. I seem to recall this practice stopped in the mid to late 50's.

I have never heard that the gloves were available for the other team to use. I have heard many stories from former players where they would pull pranks on the other players by leaving various items in opponents gloves like frogs, and other objects.

[brickyardkennedy]

You reminded me Andrew, of Eldon Auker mentioning in his book, Oscar Mellilo's extreme fear of small animals (frogs, snakes, bugs) and how that would lead to them showing up in his glove, thus causing him to go into fits. : )

[FrankWakefield]

Gloves 1955ish, maybe 54 or 56. I have something on that somewhere... gotta dig around in some boxes to find it. The When it was a Game segment on that is neat.

Balls, that was a year or so after Chapman died. And my understanding is that it happened in the majors and took a season and a half or so to work its way down in the minors, just like you surmised.

[Butch7999]

Official rule changes of 1954 included the addition, "Members of the offensive team shall carry all gloves and other equipment off the field and to the dugout while their team is at bat. No equipment shall be left lying on the field, either in fair or foul territory." So '54 made it official, although the practise may already have been fading prior to that.
Curious to hear a definitive answer about the foul ball thing...

[Chris Counts]

I can't answer the foul ball question, but I recently discovered umpires started started tossing out scuffed or dirty balls in 1921, an event that was likely related to the foul ball question. The spitball was also banned at the same time. These changes were clearly done with the intention of taking advantage of the live ball, which was introduced the previous year ...

[ncinin]

I remember this subject coming up in a baseball game on TV a long time ago. I recall an announcer (I think it was Bob Costas) said it was after the 1953 season.

If you ever watch the original TV broadcast of games 6 & 7 of the 1952 World Series, at the end of some innings you can see players tossing their gloves on the ground and trotting to the dugout.

[Oldtix]

I can't answer the foul ball question, but I recently discovered umpires started started tossing out scuffed or dirty balls in 1921, an event that was likely related to the foul ball question. The spitball was also banned at the same time. These changes were clearly done with the intention of taking advantage of the live ball, which was introduced the previous year ...

I believe there was also great emphasis on player safety after Ray Chapman's death after being hit by a Carl Mays pitch in 1920...a dirty ball was harder for the batter to see.

[GrayGhost]

A wonderful thread here. Part of why baseball is the greatest is the rich history, in the players, rules, etc. Just so much to read on, and absorb. My dream job has always been something in baseball, even part time. Anyone got anything I can do? haha.

[insidethewrapper]

In 1916, Chicago Cubs owner Charles Weeghman became the first to officially allow fans to keep any and all balls hit into the stands. His decision followed an incident in which a fan fought with park attendants after catching a foul ball during the St. Louis Cardinals' series.

Also I believe a fan took a club to court and won in the 1920's (?). I'm looking for the reference to this now.