Raw Cards

[tonyo]

Does anyone here collect them?

Why or why not?

Thanks - Tony

[barrysloate]

Lots of collectors have raw cards, even more than you may imagine. Not everyone is smitten with professional grading.

[Jim VB]

I showed these on the Post-War forum recently.

Yeah, I have a few raw cards.

[danmckee]

WOW Jim!! All of my sets are raw and in binders but not nearly as organized as yours are! I love that set up!!! You don't have an extra wrapper for that President's set do you? Dan

To answer this thread, I only collect raw. I grade cards when I am selling them or want to have them on the SGC registry like my Washington Times cobb and Crawford.

[Jim VB]

WOW Jim!! All of my sets are raw and in binders but not nearly as organized as yours are! I love that set up!!! You don't have an extra wrapper for that President's set do you? Dan

To answer this thread, I only collect raw. I grade cards when I am selling them or want to have them on the SGC registry like my Washington Times cobb and Crawford.



Sorry Dan, no wrappers at all, never mind "extra" ones on hard to find sets. Besides, Didn't you pick up a wrapper on that set last year? I seem to remember a discussion about potential cross-over between R114 and R328 wrappers.


And, to answer the original question, about 98% of my stuff is raw. I recently started thinking about selling off some basketball sets so have had a few of them graded by SGC.

I'm also not yet 100% complete on all the Topps sets. I'm about 100 cards short on 1952 (guess which 100), and maybe 50 cards short on each of 1954, 1960, and 1961.

[tonyo]

I showed these on the Post-War forum recently.

Yeah, I have a few raw cards.


That's a lot of cards. Very Impressive.

[Jim VB]

That's a lot of cards. Very Impressive.



That's what my wife says. Without the "very impressive" part.

[danmckee]

Yea Jim that was me, but I have the sports set wrapper, I need the actual Presidents wrapper now. I have the Presidents in all 3 colors complete less the McKinnley of course. I love the way you did the outside of your binders, I need to do something like that.

[Jim VB]

Yea Jim that was me, but I have the sports set wrapper, I need the actual Presidents wrapper now. I have the Presidents in all 3 colors complete less the McKinnley of course. I love the way you did the outside of your binders, I need to do something like that.

Heavy duty Avery "view" binders from Staples. Black for Baseball. Blue for Basketball. White for non-sports. You can just print from a scan of any card you want on the spines.

[danmckee]

Very cool indeed! Thanks for the info. Dan

[tonyo]

That's what my wife says. Without the "very impressive" part.
:)

Did you stop at 86 topps, or are you still collecting new stuff?

[Jim VB]

I think '87 is actually just cropped out of the picture, but I pretty much stopped after that.

[docpatlv]

JimVB,

Since your albums are stored vertically, do you have any problems with the pages "buckling" a little bit? Mine did, so I started cutting cardboard up to place on the front/back inside each binder to make them more snug. I didn't want the cards to start curling up. What do you think about storing them horizontally?

Mike

[Jim VB]

I know horizontal storage is supposed to be better, but I just can't bring myself to do it. It looks like crap.

And, to answer your question, I haven't noticed a problem with "sag" but they're pretty tightly crammed together.

[mintacular]

Yes, many collect raw and prefer to hold the cards in their hands and not some piece of plastic. Additionally, buying raw is oftentimes cheaper.

However, there are advantages to graded cards that are worth considering: authenticating cards by a professional to ensure they are not counterfeits or altered, receiving a grade that (could) increase the value for resale, protection of the card from aging, etc., and some people just like the view of a card enclosed in a solid/clean looking holder....

[danmckee]

"authenticating cards by a professional to ensure they are not counterfeits or altered"

I will just make pretend I didn't read this sentence as a pro to having cards graded.

[Jay Wolt]

I know horizontal storage is supposed to be better, but I just can't bring myself to do it. It looks like crap.

And, to answer your question, I haven't noticed a problem with "sag" but they're pretty tightly crammed together.

What I do for my ungraded cards in binders is to leave the 9th pocket empty.
So If the binders do sag, no weight will be compressed on the 9th pocket which
will cause that card to get damaged.
Also having the 9th pocket empty, it allows the card pages to be flipped thru
and you can use that area to turn over each page.

[Jim VB]

"authenticating cards by a professional to ensure they are not counterfeits or altered"

I will just make pretend I didn't read this sentence as a pro to having cards graded.

LOL!

Dan, look at it this way. You are an "amateur" if you engage in things that have no money involved. If money changes hands, you're a "professional".

Clearly, that makes you, me, and almost everyone else on this board, a "pro."

[tonyo]

"authenticating cards by a professional to ensure they are not counterfeits or altered"

I will just make pretend I didn't read this sentence as a pro to having cards graded.


please expound

[brickyardkennedy]

I collect strictly raw, as I prefer them in their "natural state". I'll buy graded and then crack them out as I'm a collector, not an investor, so the value lost matters not, to me.

[Jim VB]

please expound

Dan can explain himself, but from my point of view, simply having a third party company say that a card is not counterfeit or unaltered is no guarantee. They all make mistakes from time to time.

To me the advantage of grading companies is that the card is more protected from future damage.

[FrankWakefield]

Tony, I collect the cards, ungraded.

Why? They cost less, I have more faith in my opinion about a card than I do with the opinions of the grading companies, they store with much less space... sometimes, nay most of the time I bust out a card if it is one I'm going to keep. I like to be able to hold the card. Seems to me that sometimes a few of the folks that collect graded cards focus only on the slip at the top of the slab, and not on the card at all.

[Chris Counts]

I prefer raw cards as well. I've actually busted more cards out of slabs than I have cards in them. Not only do I not trust most of the grading companies, but ungraded cards are generally a lot cheaper. With that being said, I often do searches for graded cards marked "Authentic" or some other "low" grade. As far as I am concerned, cards that are slightly trimmed, off-centered or have minor back damage, but display well, are just fine for my collection ...

[tonyo]

Thank you all for your opinions, I certainly appreciate!

[chaddurbin]

i don't agree with the blanket statement "raw cards are cheaper"...especially online when a scan can hide an unseen crease or wrinkle. alot of the time it's cheaper to buy a graded 3 vs a seemingly nice VGEX+ but with a crease that'd knock it to G+.

people pay stoopid money thinking a card will grade a certain way and when card is in-hand they're disappointed. this phenomena also extends to slightly trimmed graded As or "great eye appeal" card going for more than it should.

...and it's funny people love to buy raw cards, but when it's time to sell let's get SGC (or whatever company they will grade the card the highest)on the phone. it's all about the bottom line$$$

[Jim VB]

...and it's funny people love to buy raw cards, but when it's time to sell let's get SGC (or whatever company they will grade the card the highest)on the phone. it's all about the bottom line$$$

When I buy a card, it's all about "me" and what I will pay.

When I sell a card it suddenly becomes about other people and what they will pay. If they prefer to pay more for graded, so be it.

[danmckee]

to expound on what I stated: There are plenty of trimmed, altered, fake, repro cards in 3rd party holders as legit and unaltered. I am with Frank, after 40 years of doing this, I put myself in the knows best category.

Buy raw and sell slabbed, because of the stoopid or stupid people that will pay $3000.00 for a $300.00 card because of a label. If I didn't spend the $14 before selling my $300.00 card to have it slabbed, then that would make me just as stoooopid.

[deadballera]

most of my collection is in RAW form.

I do have some that are graded cards, but 95 % of my collection are raw.

I have only sent in one card to be graded. Just don't want to spend the money yet to get any of them graded.


When buying raw cards, I usually only buy from dealers that I have dealt with in the past.

[FrankWakefield]

Dan, Jim, Bob, Chris... these are obviously collectors I need to sit down and drink a beer with.

Quan, when we (me and the guys I just mentioned) buy a card, we're after that card. Not a holder, a slip, or some kinda report (what do they call those things that list which collector has the highest graded cards??).

When we sell, we're selling for, what is it now, wait for it.... money. So I don't think many of us would disagree that graded cards usually sell for more (revisit the raw cards cost less idea one more time), it is just that we aren't interested in collecting them. But you guys please continue to collect them, it helps us sell for more!!

[Potomac Yank]

Count me in .....

tobacco-r-us

[chaddurbin]

then don't bash the game...if you guys are also willing participants, or act like you're above it.

[mintacular]

While some of you guys feel knowledgable enough to spot fakes, I mentioned that many consumers (perhaps those who only buy/collect cards sparingly) may prefer the added certainty of buying graded cards, especially on an expensive card that is readily counterfeited (Mantle/Clemente/Jordan/Lemieux, etc.) While you (rightly) point out that grading companies are not always 100% correct, the good ones will get it right 95-99% of the time and as such offer an advantage for SOME buyers...

(Sidenote: I do agree with the overall sentiment that graded card collectors oftentimes do overpay unnecessarily and for reasons that I don't personally care for. i.e. buying the "holder" instead of the card...)

[Jim VB]

then don't bash the game...if you guys are also willing participants, or act like you're above it.

Not sure if you meant me, but I have never bashed the game or acted like I'm above it.

It is what it is.

[barrysloate]

There are enough cards to go around to satisfy both the graded market and the raw one.

[Potomac Yank]

While some of you guys feel knowledgable enough to spot fakes, I mentioned that many consumers (perhaps those who only buy/collect cards sparingly) may prefer the added certainty of buying graded cards, especially on an expensive card that is readily counterfeited (Mantle/Clemente/Jordan/Lemieux, etc.) While you (rightly) point out that grading companies are not always 100% correct, the good ones will get it right 95-99% of the time and as such offer an advantage for SOME buyers...

(Sidenote: I do agree with the overall sentiment that graded card collectors oftentimes do overpay unnecessarily and for reasons that I don't personally care for. i.e. buying the "holder" instead of the card...)

*

You use post war Mantle/Clemente/Jordan/Lemieux, as an example, instead of Cobb/Doyle/Thorpe/Magie, and yet it is obvious that you have not checked out the "Have you checked out THESE beauties" Poll. :)

[Al C.risafulli]

About 95% of my collection is raw. The only things I have slabbed are the cards I have on display, my T205s, my Henry Johnson HOFers, and a smattering of other oddball cards that I've acquired over the years.

Everything else is either in binders or in card savers in shoeboxes. It will always be that way.

-Al

[danmckee]

I always bash the game and will til I die. And I will also use it to sell to people who pay for labels. I bash it because I believe the hobby was a better place without it. Of course as you stated Quan, the money has ruined everything but also has made us guys who have had killer stuff from 40 years ago fairly well off. 2 sides to every coin.

Oh I use the game so I am not above it, but I do truly dislike it as a collector.

Dan

[Potomac Yank]

I don't want you to hold anything back. :)

[Rob D.]

Too bad they can't slab hypocrisy. There would be a few challengers for the top of the registry list.

[FrankWakefield]

Thank you, Rob. Registry, that is what it is called.

I know lots of folks like chasing graded cards, and the registry thing. Good for them. Of late I'm trying not to blah their bling... wish they'd reciprocate.

Quan takes issue with raw cards being cheaper, but then ends with the idea that we get cards graded because they sell for more. That's not hypocrisy, that's reality. But how can you take issue with the idea that raw cards are cheaper, then agree that graded cards sell for more??

[tedzan]

Posted at every show that I set up at is this sign of mine.


<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/buycaressmellsign.jpg" alt="[linked image]">



Yes, I have a few graded cards in my collection....but, those cards are on hold, till I replace them with
their ungraded equivalents. Then these graded ones will be sold or traded.



T-Rex TED

[iggyman]

ca·ress (kə-rěs')

1. A gentle touch or gesture of fondness, tenderness, or love. To touch or stroke in an affectionate or loving manner.


I'm a baseball card collector and I "caress" old cardboard. There, I said it!

Lovely Day...

[FrankWakefield]

Nice sign, Ted.

Jim, do you have that Sky Birds folder completed?? That is one complex set. The Indians are even more complicated, but I find the National Chicle's Sky Birds one fine set. I'm several cards short... It isn't a set to be completed very quickly.

[Jim VB]

Nice sign, Ted.

Jim, do you have that Sky Birds folder completed?? That is one complex set. The Indians are even more complicated, but I find the National Chicle's Sky Birds one fine set. I'm several cards short... It isn't a set to be completed very quickly.



Indian Gum is completed, but only as a 216 card numerical set, not the 432 card Master set. I'm dumb, but not that stupid.

In Sky Birds, I'm about 8 cards short of the 108 card numerical set. Again, not really interested in the Master set

[FrankWakefield]

I'm with you on the Sky Birds, I have 3 or 4 "extra" cards in the middle, there, that could go toward the master set. But 108 seems a sufficient goal.

Sometimes I think there are more T206 complete sets (with Wagner, Plank, and Magie) than there are 108 card Sky Bird sets out there. I'm thinking you've seen the article about Sky Birds that was in The Wrapper years ago?

[Epps]

I also agree that raw cards are awesome. I like putting them in binders and am currently working on a raw 1933 Goudey set. I just think that cards are more fun when you can hold them in your hand or flip through a binder full of them and pop one out and examine it.

[joeadcock]

Rob D.

I agree with you. I am dealing with it every day in my job also, and even at church. Hypocricy is the norm in politics also.

Frank L.

[2dueces]

Jim, Great collection!!! Just one question. Before I bought dust covers for my binders I noticed the top of the top row of cards turned slightly yellow and dust did settle on the pages. Have you had this problem or considered putting you albums in dust covers? I know I feel better with long term storage with them.

[Brian Van Horn]

I haven't read through this thread. I am just responding to the original post regarding raw cards.

"Does anyone here collect them?

Why or why not?"

Yes, I would say over 90% of my collection is raw. I don't mind raw cards as long as I feel they are not trimmed or bleached. I have the money to buy raw and I think most graded cards are overpriced. Admittedly, part of the overpricing is getting the money back one put into grading the card.

[2dueces]

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m80/2dueces/Sep24_14.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m80/2dueces/Sep24_15.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m80/2dueces/Sep24_16.jpg


Not pre war baseball, but yes I do collect raw and enjoy looking through the binders and remembering childhood memories of watching these guys play.

[tbob]

I collect 'em both ways. Most completed sets which contain over 50 cards are raw (T205, 206, 207, E90-1, E92, E94 master near set, T212 Obaks '09, '10, '11, 1955 Bowman, 1961 Topps, etc.) but the smaller sets are all slabbed (T200, E93, E95, E96, E97, E98 etc). The only variances are the T210s all slabbed (working on this huge set) and the 1911 and 1912 Zeenuts near sets, all slabbed.
I do buy cards raw and end up slabbing mostly for eye appeal, safety sake and because when I am gone they will be easier to sell for my heirs, although my younger daughter (27) swears she is keeping her 1/2 of the old man's stash. She also gets first pick and is wise enough to have selected the Matty autographed baseball :)

[brickyardkennedy]

I've never sold cards, but if I did, I'd likely have them graded first. The difference being, when I want to keep a card, it's value to me is intrinsic. If I would ever want to sell, it's value would be monetary.

[Jim VB]

Jim, Great collection!!! Just one question. Before I bought dust covers for my binders I noticed the top of the top row of cards turned slightly yellow and dust did settle on the pages. Have you had this problem or considered putting you albums in dust covers? I know I feel better with long term storage with them.

Joe,

I looked at some dust cover binders, but found they limited my size options a little. I have binders of varying sizes from 1 inch up to 5 or 5 1/2 inches. The Toops binders are all stored in a closet, so the dust is minimal.

[glynparson]

This may surprise some of the people on the board but the vast majority of my collection is ungraded. I sell almost entirely graded (PSA or SGC) cards but I collect raw.

[2dueces]

Joe,

I looked at some dust cover binders, but found they limited my size options a little. I have binders of varying sizes from 1 inch up to 5 or 5 1/2 inches. The Toops binders are all stored in a closet, so the dust is minimal.

Yea, tuff to find dust covers for 5 1/2" binders. Still what a great collection. I'm sure you enjoy opening them and looking through them. Congrads.

[Anthony S.]

95% raw. Frankly, I feel like a dork when I show a non-collector a piece of cardboard hermetically sealed in hard plastic.

[doug.goodman]

And, Ted Z is my hero.

Doug

[tonyo]

95% raw. Frankly, I feel like a dork when I show a non-collector a piece of cardboard hermetically sealed in hard plastic.


:D Probably one of the best responses in a great thread!


Everyone, thank you for your input. I also read a similar thread from 2007. Sorry to have re-hashed the topic, but it was fun reading!