Which pre-war photographer do you like best?

[thekingofclout]

Here are examples of each of the photographer's work.


5994 Louis Van Oeyen

5995 Charles Conlon

5996 George Grantham Bain

5997 Paul Thompson

5998 George Burke

[batsballsbases]

It has to be Burke for me. Just beautiful pictures!:eek:

[perezfan]

They're all marvelous, but to me Bain's photos carry the greatest mystique. Tough choice between him and the others, but I voted for Bain... maybe because his photos tend to include more background specifics and interesting stadium features (see below).

That huge net in back of Cobb, the fact that virtually everyone is wearing a straw hat (in the other Cobb photo) and the ridiculous distance between the fans and the field of play (in the Carlisle/Syracuse photo) all add interest and intrigue. My guess, however is that Conlon will win the popular vote when all is said and done.

Post-war photographer is much easier for me... the incomparable Malcolm Emmons gets my vote.

[D. Bergin]

I've gotta go with Conlon.

The clarity on his shots were just amazing. You could almost see the sweat coming out of the pores of a guys face. I wish he had shot boxing also.

I like Burke but I think he used a softer focus filter, I prefer the grittier realism approach of Conlan.

Bain was pretty basic.

I think Paul Thompson may be under-rated. I actually think he's a step above Burke as far as quality.

I'm not familiar with Van Oeyan

[Leon]

What, no Horner?

[thekingofclout]

but ultimately, I omitted him due to the fact that he was a studio photographer, albeit the finest without question.

Also, for me, the common denominator for the five I chose is they all shot at the ballpark and they all photographed the Bambino. If Horner ever shot Ruth, I'm not aware of it.

Best regards, Jimmy

[Rob D.]

Because of his Cleveland connection, Louis Van Oeyen is the obvious choice for me.

These are from the Halper collection. Was thrilled when I got them:

[Jay Wolt]

I would vote for Conlon
Have a book on his baseball photos and in the '80's saw a display
in DC up close of his shots, incredible!

[thekingofclout]

6024 Louis Van Oeyen

6025 Charles Conlon

6027 George Grantham Bain

6028 Paul Thompson

6029 George Burke

[barrysloate]

Hey Rob- I went with Van Oeyen also. Something about those sepia tones that really appeals to me...Conlon is great too.

[jacksons]

Great thread, Jimmy.

Bain it is for me, as well. I have some great early Highlanders photos from him.

perezfan - I've always been particular to that first Cobb of yours. One of my favorites. Missed out on it in Hunt's a few years back.

Love the subtlety of his finger position on the bat - he clearly had a message for the photographer. Who didn't he have a message for?

[GKreindler]

Can't I vote for all of them, damn it?!

Seriously, they're all kings.

[drc]

I voted for Bain, but like them all. Horner would have gathered some votes.

[william_9]

Charles Conlon got me interested in the subject of early baseball photography as he is really the only "name" that anyone who is a casual observer has ever heard of. He would be my sentimental favorite. I love that he could bring out a personality through his photos. Whether it was a casual moment during batting practice or in an action shot, I always felt like I was closer to knowing the players. In reality, we know very little, but the images speak to us in different ways. In fact, I say he's largely responsible for people longing for the "good ole days". I enjoy a game on TV, but, I don't feel the same connection to modern players as those who are pictured in Conlon's work.

It's great see some other images that have another name attached to them as well. These photo threads have been some of my favorites.

[thekingofclout]

Charles Conlon got me interested in the subject of early baseball photography as he is really the only "name" that anyone who is a casual observer has ever heard of. He would be my sentimental favorite. I love that he could bring out a personality through his photos. Whether it was a casual moment during batting practice or in an action shot, I always felt like I was closer to knowing the players. In reality, we know very little, but the images speak to us in different ways. In fact, I say he's largely responsible for people longing for the "good ole days". I enjoy a game on TV, but, I don't feel the same connection to modern players as those who are pictured in Conlon's work.

It's great see some other images that have another name attached to them as well. These photo threads have been some of my favorites.

You absolutely nailed it William.

[GKreindler]

I agree with Jimmy. Bravo, William.

And for the record, the next time the National is out in Cleveland (or anyone is in Cleveland, for that matter), it might be worth your while to check out the Western Reserve Historical Society. Supposedly, they have thousands of Van Oeyen originals in their archives, plenty of which are on display. I had hoped that I would be able to make it to the museum last July, but I couldn't seem to get away.

[Jantz]

All of the photographers are great for sure, but I'm going with Van Oeyen. The first pre-war baseball photo that I bought was by Van Oeyen. I had no clue who he was and at the time didn't even care. I bought the photo because it was of Larry Doyle and I thought it would be a nice piece to accompany my T206 set. A fellow board member kindly educated me on the photo and it's photographer. I went back to the dealer and found another, which I also bought. The term "dumb luck" sure applied to me that day. I don't think the dealer knew who Van Oeyen was either.


Jantz

[Forever Young]

They all rule in their own ways but I sure am a sucker for a crystal clear mini bain photo...Below are two photos I am lucky enough to own. GHOSTS..."IF YOU BUILD IT HE WILL COME" sort of feel.

G.G. BAIN


http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/weino23/ruth_bain_black.jpg
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/weino23/gehrig2.jpg
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/weino23/cobb_bain-1.jpg
Ck out finger on the bat and behind his back...what a peach.
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/weino23/bain.jpg


CHARLES CONLON

http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/weino23/IMGruth600-1.jpg
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/weino23/gehrigconlonnew.jpg
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/weino23/gernew.jpg
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/weino23/conlongehrig.jpg
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/weino23/lazwater.png




PAUL THOMPSON

http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/weino23/babethompson2.png
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/weino23/Joe_Jackson_128.jpg
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/weino23/wagnerthompson3.jpg
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/weino23/youngbest2.png



G. BURKE
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/weino23/BABEPORTRAITBURKEFRONT.jpg
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/weino23/GEHRIGPORTBURKEFRONT.jpg
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/weino23/gehrig_burke.jpg
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/weino23/DIMAGGIOPORTBURKEFRONT.jpg
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/weino23/ruth00123.jpg

[bmarlowe1]

I really like George Lawrence's pre-1910 ball park panoramas at West Side Grounds and South Side Park in Chicago, taken with his 3/4 ton camera. Innovative high-tech.

[Forever Young]

I really like George Lawrence's pre-1910 ball park panoramas at West Side Grounds and South Side Park in Chicago, taken with his 3/4 ton camera. Innovative high-tech.

Mark,
Can you post some of these?
Ben

[bmarlowe1]

Ben -

You can find some online at the Library of Congress Prints and Photographs website. Go to the panoramic photos collection. Search on "baseball" AND "lawrence". You will get 24 hits. They can be downloaded in hi-res (some higher res than others).

Posting them here in any practical size would not be adequate.

I'd have to double check, but I think that his photos can be seen nicely reproduced on the dust-jackets of SABR's Deadball Stars of the Natl Lg and Deadball Stars of the American Lg.

Mark

[ethicsprof]

As i mentioned on the other board, I love his action poses which serve
as the bases for T206 cards.
I saw 2 for sale in the last Legendary auction(lee tannehill and ed killian)
and was able to pick up the tannehill. Lot 206, Lot 154.
i'd love to know if we have any experts on the Conlon/T206 connection.
what other Conlon's are behind T206s, etc.?
most of us have focused on Horner who is mighty great with the portraits but
Conlon has captured me now!
best,
barry

[mr2686]

Mark,

Thank you for the info on the Library of congress prints. I don't know why I never thought to check that out but I was able to download several great baseball shots that will look great matted with their autographs. I always have trouble deciding what to do with my HOF executives autographs, but on that site I found a great photo of Frick, Griffith, Landis and Harridge all in one photo. Great way to matt those autos in less space.
That really made my Christmas!!

[Forever Young]

I have always loved the best that Burke, Bain, Thompson and Conlon had to offer; never got into Louis Van Oeyen. Most likely because I have not handled many GREAT images of his. I have seen some great images..never for sale though. What are other's thoughts on these great photographers and in what order do you rank them? I forgot about this thread and was hoping to get other's thoughts. Does anyone have any Louis Van Oeyen photos they would like to share? I have added some of my exemplars of the other 4 below in the thread.

Ben

PS: Would anyone include the likes of Thorne or any other pre-war photographer in their top 5 to replace one of the said photographers above?

[slidekellyslide]

Matty McIntyre :D

Wahoo Sam

<a href="http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/The%20Players/?action=view&amp;current=crawford1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/The%20Players/crawford1.jpg" border="0" alt="Sam Crawford c1907 - Matty McIntyre Photo Collection"></a>

[Republicaninmass]

I voted Conlon, however I have seen some stunning "hand tinted" Burke's

[Bobsbats]

for Bain because of the backgrounds that are included, but there is a lesser know photographer named Bruce Murray with great photos also....

[Runscott]

Conlon - sometimes the obvious isn't a bad choice.

Frances Burke was another great photographer of this period. George Burke's connection to him is an interesting story.

[prewarsports]

Van Oeyen is my favorite, I love the steely tones of his photos and they are usually much earlier. They are the rarest of the ones listed on the poll, but generally not the most expensive. I have owned maybe 20-30 ever and am always on the lookout for them.

Here are a couple of my scans, Donovan and Jones.

Rhys

[Forever Young]

Van Oeyen is my favorite, I love the steely tones of his photos and they are usually much earlier. They are the rarest of the ones listed on the poll, but generally not the most expensive. I have owned maybe 20-30 ever and am always on the lookout for them.

Here are a couple of my scans, Donovan and Jones.

Rhys

I have owned them too.. just not top tier hof's(what i primarily collect). I have not even really seen them(seen 1 matty, cy young and gehrig). I know they are very rare but the images just don't do as much for me as the other photographers. But then again, I like the portraits. There was a fantastic Joe Jackson throwing in Mile High earlier this year that I bid on.
To each their own... hence the thread. These images you posted are really nice Rhys. Thanks for sharing them.

[Forever Young]

Conlon - sometimes the obvious isn't a bad choice.

Frances Burke was another great photographer of this period. George Burke's connection to him is an interesting story.

Frances Burke does have some wonderful images.. good call runscott.

[GKreindler]

Francis Burke was a mutant. He has some of the best action shots from the turn of the century that I've ever seen, for sure. Especially when you're talking about those old Cubs and White Sox teams. A number of the images in the Max Stein postcard sets were from his photos, and since his company was based in Chicago, it makes sense that it would have used Francis' work.

Oddly enough, if you don't know much about George Burke, it's really interesting to read that it was through the mistake of Gabby Hartnett and Joe McCarthy that he was even hired to shoot the Cubs. The story goes that in 1929, while they were looking for the contact information of the team photographer, they came across George's last name (which was the only name they could remember), and since his office was located near Wrigley Field, they felt he must have been the guy. So, George Burke, who had no sports experience whatsoever, became the official photographer of the Cubs, while Francis, the man who had been shooting them since the early 1900s, was suddenly unemployed.

In terms of originals, I would imagine that they're a number of them out there (whether that means for sale or in private hands), but I just don't know what that number is. Personally, I've seen a few of his glass negatives for sale, but that was over 15 years ago.

Here are a few examples of his stuff (and 'yes', I would paint the sh*t out of them):

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b158/GKreindler/ChristyMathewson1909-2.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b158/GKreindler/ChristyMathewson1907.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b158/GKreindler/HonusWagner1909-2.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b158/GKreindler/HonusWagner1909.jpg

A fellow named David R. Phillips was the owner of Burke's original collection of negatives up until a few years ago. And he may very well still be, as I haven't heard anything of the contrary. Though they're no baseball images on the actual website, some more of Burke's other works depicting life in Chicago from that era can be viewed here:

http://davidrphillipshistoricfineartphotography.com/index.htm

He was the man.

Graig

[Runscott]

Love that Wagner from the CJ.

He also took the famous photo of Babe Ruth pitching as a Red Sox player.

I think he also did a good number of the photos used for the Cracker Jacks - I used to own a gorgeous 8x10 sepia of the Zimmerman image.

Zimmerman, Reulbach, Moran: