Need advice on T206 scrapbook removal

[Browncow75]

I know, I know...its a touchy subject. But these are staying in my personal collection so there wont be any disclosure needed when sold. I picked up these 2 scrapbook pages today (scans below,one scan wont load), and while they arent in the greatest shape, there are some saveable HOF'ers Id like to remove from the cardboard pages. The main issue I have is, Ive never soaked cards before, and with them being glued down on both sides of the pages, Im not sure how to go about doing it since they cant be cut individually and soaked. What I need to know is: Would you soak a whole page at a time, or use an exacto to lift a few layers of cardboard and try to cut part of the way through the backing without going thru to the other side? How long do I soak them to help insure that the cards dont come apart? Granted, Im not looking at a ton of cash in these cards, but there are some T206 southern league'ers and the Caramel Mathewson Id like to rescue from the pages. The cardboard backing is very brittle, so I wasnt sure if that would be a help or hinderance! Any CONSTRUCTIVE advice is appreciated! http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=59&pictureid=1091 http://http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=59&pictureid=1090 http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=59&pictureid=1089 http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=59&pictureid=1088 Thanks!

[Matt]

Nice pickups! Just find a large enough pan and you can soak the whole sheet. More specifics are here:
http://net54baseball.com/forum/content/soak.html

[Browncow75]

I will do a test soak and let you know what happens!

Brandon

[barrysloate]

You've got some nice candy cards there, especially those E90-3. If you are afraid to do it yourself, you can ask a paper conservator to do it and pay him a fee. I doubt it would be a huge expense, and would be worth it if you try it yourself and end up damaging some cards.

[Leon]

You've got some nice candy cards there, especially those E90-3. If you are afraid to do it yourself, you can ask a paper conservator to do it and pay him a fee. I doubt it would be a huge expense, and would be worth it if you try it yourself and end up damaging some cards.

Great advice. Take it.....nuff said.....regards

[Browncow75]

That was my initial gut feeling. I really dont trust myself to do it as well as someone more experienced could. After reading the page on soaking, Im still not that confident. Are there any paper conservators that you might suggest? I know there are ALOT of variables involved, but as far as the saveable (i.e. -not severely damaged) cards go, if they were successfully removed, what is a ballpark $ figure to insure them at for sending to a conservator through the mail? Thanks!

Brandon

[Browncow75]

This one wouldnt load on my first post!

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=59&pictureid=1088

[FrankWakefield]

All of that will EASILY soak.

If you've never soaked a card before, then you won't want to do it... but it is really easy. If I had that, the entire sheet would go into a Tupperware container of water.

With scissors, cut out one of those bottom cards that is partially gone or torn. Then, put that piece of scrapbook and card in a glass of water. After a couple of hours, change the water, I say that because from the looks of what you have, the water will get dirty, so let's change it once. After a while the card will fall free from the paper. Rinse it off some, then lay it on a dishcloth and blot a bit. Let it lay there and air dry for a while. Then, put it between folds of paper, heavy paper if possible, and stack some books on it. Change paper after a while. The card will dry clean and flat.

Once you've done that, then you won't be so fearful of soaking the entire page. In the old days guys would throw that in the bathtub and just let it soak overnight.

Someone will tell you to use distilled water. That's a waste of money and distilled water. No need for that unless you have really bad tap water.

You can do this. No need to pay some 'professional' to do it. If you pay postage both ways I'll soak it for you. It really isn't that big of a deal. I still recall how scared I was the first time I soaked a T206... It is easy to do.

Frank W.

[iggyman]

I've soaked many prewar cards in my time (T206's, T205's, Caramels, Goudeys, Strips, W514's, Playballs, post war, etc, etc. etc.) and I wholeheartedly agree with Frank's advice. Just from look of the scrapbook, this one looks real easy to do. Hey, some Net54 members are experts when it comes to earlobes, my gift is scrapbook telepathy ;).

The best advice I can give, is to not be in a big hurry when you soak them. Just take a deep breath, put them in the pan and walk away. With certain kinds of paper or glue, walking away can be dangerous, but on this one, I see no problem. Don't force the issue, let the water do the work and just repeat this mantra over and over.... water will not harm prewar cards....water will not harm prewar cards....water will not harm prewar cards......

My second advice (which would be the same one I would give to someone who owns an aquarium), is to always keep the water fresh. After awhile of soaking, the water starts to mix with the glue and it will kill a goldfish and on rare occasions it could cause some staining (on the cards, not the goldfish). Thus, don't reuse the same water to soak a different batch of cards. That's it!

Lovely Day...

[fkw]

Got some nice E90-3 cards, they are tough :)

PS they were obviously glued into the book after 1922 because of the E120's and W514

[Wite3]

Contact Dick Towle...he can soak and remove scrapbook residue from nearly anything for a fee.

Joshua

[Rob D.]

Brandon,

No matter what anyone tells you, do what makes you feel comfortable. It's easy for someone who isn't invested in the cards (and not just financially) to tell you to do it yourself.

My advice is to follow your gut feeling.

[barrysloate]

As Frank said if you want to try soaking yourself pick a card that is already damaged and practice. I've never actually soaked them myself but it probably is easy.

[Browncow75]

Thanks for all the responses guys! Im too chicken to try to remove them myself so Im going to have someone else do it for me (Either Frank W or Dick Towle when he gets back in town) and will post pics of the results when I get them back. After seeing the prices on even low-grade E90-3's I would like to have a better chance of success on these cards! There are a lot of nice cards there if they do indeed come out ok. Will let you know the results asap!

Brandon

[chaddurbin]

some nice cards, good luck with the endeavor.

[prewarsports]

You should not have any problems with the cards you have. However, the advice that ALL prewar cards are fine to soak is not true. Nielsons Chocolate cards ink is water soluable and they will fade if you soak them. Also almost all the black and white postcard issues of the 1910 era like HM Taylor and Dietche will be severely damaged with water. There are other issues as well that will be damaged if you soak them. Clement Brothers bread cards with completely wash away if soaked for another example.

You should be fine with yours, but black and white cards can be VERY tricky.

Rhys

[Browncow75]

Just as I suspected, I tried soaking a 4 of the damaged cards, and Im not nearly talented enough to do it right. All 4 ended up with signifigant paperloss and 2 were completely skinned. GRRR...off to a pro (or more experienced person) they go! Im so ticked!!

Brandon

[iggyman]

I'm sorry to hear that...........I feel bad for encouraging you. I sincerely apologize and in the future I will keep my big mouth closed. Obviously, the glue used must not have been water based. I'm not really sure why the cards you soaked suffered extreme back damage? From my experience, the soaking should either work or not. By chance, did you try to pull the cards off the scrapbook after soaking, that would be the wrong way to do it.

Secondly, I stand corrected. As mentioned, not all prewar cards can be soaked. I was way out of line with that statement. "Most" prewar can be soaked, but NOT "all". Soaking cards made of real photographs will cause separation from the backing. So never soak Old Judges, T200's, nor any other similar photo card.

Lovely Day...

[botn]

Nice pick up. Was wondering where you got the sheets from. Always makes for an interesting story.

Thanks,

Greg

[Jantz]

Brandon,

I really can't add anymore than what has already been posted, but I just wanted to say that those are some nice pick-ups. Good luck with them and I hope you get them off cleanly.

Also, when you get the T206 Ritter off, will you email me and let me know if it has a Piedmont 350 back? I'm pretty sure its a Piedmont 350 already, I just want confirmation. Appreciate it if you could.

Thanks,

Jantz

[Danny Smith]

Nice pickup. I met the guy who owned them and took a long look at them at the St. Louis show in August. Neat story behind them. It didnt sound like he was looking to sell when I spoke with him. Did you end up with the sheet with the green Cobb? Congrats!!

[Minerscoin]

Man those look like some nice cards. Just how many fair or better e90-3 cards are on those sheets? I don't collect e90-3 cards so I really had no idea their value and understand why you want a pro to do the job after seeing the prices in the book on them even in low grade. If it is not too much trouble could you list the fair or better e90-3 cards you have.
Again nice job on getting those cards. Finds like that are nice to see. Hope you got a good buy on them.
Mark

[Browncow75]

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the compliments! I actually picked them up from a dealer friend who, Im guessing, got them from the gentleman than Danny met who had them. Unfortunately, if there was a Cobb, I didnt get a crack at it! I just got the 3 pages (front and back) I posted. As far as the E90-3s go, there are 6 that are intact and not missing pieces. They are: Hofman, Sheckard, Tinker, Steinfeldt, Overall, and M. Brown. The Cole has a big chunk missing that didnt show up in the scans. There is also an E90-1 Matty that has the spot of paperloss on the front. I was able to soak off a Dockman's Devlin, but it ended up with spots of paperloss. BTW, Hey Iggy....No big deal my friend! I just wanted to give it a shot with some of the not so valuable cards! I was just mad at myself for doing it wrong...I didnt let them soak long enough, and as mentioned, tried to "help them along". They are all going out Tuesday to be worked on. As soon as I have results, I will post them. I will take front and back scans so you can see how everything turns out! Thanks guys! Talk to you soon!

PS - I dont want to make a big deal or anything, but some people hinted as to how much I paid...I will just say that I would have needed more money to buy a Playstation 3 :)

Brandon

[Jantz]

Brandon

As I mentioned previously, I would definitely like to see a back scan of the T206 Ritter when you get them back.

Thanks

Jantz

P.S - I will be sending you an email in the next few minutes.

[Browncow75]

The blue writing on the Bridwell (red background 2nd row) made me think it might be a E104-3 :eek: , but of course I cant find a pic of one on the net to be sure. Im just going on what the example on oldcardboard.com looks like. Just curious. Hope someone can help me out!

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=59&pictureid=1090
Brandon