Another Great Ebay Move

[Pup6913]

So we all know that SCAM-BAY is always looking for a way to screw the seller. Here is another way I just found while listing a lot of cards.


Attention Sellers:


Dear Seller!
Starting the week of September 22, 2009, optional or required buyer-selected shipping insurance will no longer be allowed on eBay.

What you can do:

You will still be able to insure you items.

You can fold the cost of insurance into your item price or handling fee.

You can indicate, ‘The item is insured” or “Handling fee includes insurance.”

What you cannot do:
You cannot charge the buyer a separate fee for insurance, either in a listing or after the buyer has committed to purchase the item

You cannot indicate insurance is only offered upon buyer’s request

You cannot indicate you are not responsible for the item once it has been shipped.

For more information on the changes to optional insurance, please visit:

http://pages.ebay.com/sell/July2009Update/faq/index.html#1-10

[Old Mill Man]

WOW!!!! These new changes really make no sense to me.I mean we know we are in rough times with the economy so why would they do things that have a negative spin??? I don't get it,thanks for the post I am coming very close to closing my Ebay account.

[jim]

Don't mind buying there, but real leery of selling material there anymore.

[Exhibitman]

All I can think is that they want to get rid of all non-professional sellers. In other words, eliminate the sellers who got them to this point. Stupidity is never in short supply in corporate America.

[Anthony S.]

Actually, after all the Ebay self-immolation over the past year, this decision finally makes sense. As primarily an Ebay buyer (and occasional seller), there's something particularly galling about hearing that the seller isn't responsible unless the buyer purchases insurance. Horse hockey. I paid for the item. I paid shipping. I didn't pay for the "possibility" of receiving the item. I paid to receive it. Amazon doesn't send me an email after I purchase an item that reads "well you didn't buy insurance, so if you don't receive the item, sucks to be you." If you're a seller, take the cost of insurance and delivery confirmation into account when you list an item. I'm sure there's plenty of seller horror stories out there, and that they'll be revealed in this thread, but on the face of it, as a buyer, this is a positive development.

[Pup6913]

Actually, after all the Ebay self-immolation over the past year, this decision finally makes sense. As primarily an Ebay buyer (and occasional seller), there's something particularly galling about hearing that the seller isn't responsible unless the buyer purchases insurance. Horse hockey. I bought the item. I paid shipping. I didn't pay for the "possibility" of receiving the item. I paid to receive it. Amazon doesn't send me an email after I purchase an item that reads, well you didn't buy insurance, so if you don't receive the item, sucks to be you. If you're a seller, take the cost of insurance and delivery confirmation into account when you list an item. I'm sure there's plenty of seller horror stories out there, and that they'll be revealed in this thread, but on the face of it, as a buyer, this is a positive development.

Valid point and I agree to some extent. Problem is when the seller adds the insurance to an item and charges the consumer for it they get pissed because they didn't ask for it, or they decide to buy somewhere else, or they give you BS offers for your items to offset the cost of shipping/handling. Another thing is why is it my responsibility for you to recieve your item I am not the PO and do not get paid to deliver your item anywhere but there. This is what we pay the PO for. They offer insurance same way Ebay sellers do, they don't make it mandatory that is why it is optional. Why doesn't the real problem step up and do something about lost and damaged mail:confused:

If I sell a card for $10 and add $2 for shipping you are in to it for $12. I go mail it with tracking info but you decided to not get insurance on it because its only $12. You get the tracking # and all is well untill it is lost or shows up busted. Now where in there is this the sellers fault and their responsibility for the item, especialy since you have the choice to get insurance.

Nobody sells to take a loss. I also see this causing a great mail fraud scam.

I sell you an item, you get it and if you don't like it and there are no returns or I refuse return because there is no legitamite excuse for it other than buyers remorse whats to say you have no integrity and file a PO claim for the item just to get some or all Money back????

Ebay is only making it easier for the Scammers out there. Just wait and see and I hope I am wrong.

[Anthony S.]

Valid point and I agree to some extent. Problem is when the seller adds the insurance to an item and charges the consumer for it they get pissed because they didn't ask for it, or they decide to buy somewhere else, or they give you BS offers for your items to offset the cost of shipping/handling. Another thing is why is it my responsibility for you to recieve your item I am not the PO and do not get paid to deliver your item anywhere but there. This is what we pay the PO for. They offer insurance same way Ebay sellers do, they don't make it mandatory that is why it is optional. Why doesn't the real problem step up and do something about lost and damaged mail:confused:

If I sell a card for $10 and add $2 for shipping you are in to it for $12. I go mail it with tracking info but you decided to not get insurance on it because its only $12. You get the tracking # and all is well untill it is lost or shows up busted. Now where in there is this the sellers fault and their responsibility for the item, especialy since you have the choice to get insurance.

Nobody sells to take a loss. I also see this causing a great mail fraud scam.

I sell you an item, you get it and if you don't like it and there are no returns or I refuse return because there is no legitamite excuse for it other than buyers remorse whats to say you have no integrity and file a PO claim for the item just to get some or all Money back????

Ebay is only making it easier for the Scammers out there. Just wait and see and I hope I am wrong.

Mention in your listing that you have to add the cost of insurance to the shipping price, because Ebay stipulates that sellers are responsible for guaranteeing that buyers receive the item(s) they purchased. Every Ebay seller will be in the same boat from here on in.

Also, as the seller, it's your responsibility to get the item to me. We entered into a contract, and I fulfilled my end of the contract by paying you for the item. I didn't buy the item from the post office, I bought it from you. The fact that the post office doesn't mandate that you purchase insurance doesn't obviate you from your responsibility. Furthermore, insurance on a $12 item is negligible.

[WarHoundR69]

Or you can "SELF-INSURE". On the small stuff (Less than $50.00) I do not pay for insurance or DC. I have found that 98%+ of the buyers out there are honest and so far have had no problems. I have saved several hundred dollars on mailing costs by not paying for those services - more than enough to cover the cost of the inevitable "Lost Package".

Over $50.00 I insure & buy DC.

[Edwolf1963]

For what it's worth, I know that when push comes to shove - Seller loses the dispute when it comes to this. The "not responsible for items not received if insurance is not taken line in auctions has never meant anything. Buyer doesn't take added insurance - you can't prove the shipper delivered - you lose the dispute. Period. Regardless of happy-talk in auctions about not being responsible.

The issue is that the buyer fulfilled his/her obligation and you received your money, you are then responsible for the buyer receiving that item - regardless of shipping issues. Same rule applies to merchants across many lines, seller responsibility doesn't end when it's dropped in the mail - I buy something from Sears on-line for example, I don't receive it or it shows up damaged, they don't say "too bad, you didn't accept insurance" - that's already assumed/factored in.

I think that's what they're doing here, fine to charge it - but no longer an option - and no more "not responsible if..." lines, fewer dispute resolutions, etc. When you think of it, really, it's CYA no matter what.

Mind you, I'm not defending eBay - just a basic rule of transaction in this type of manner. I know it's hard to break even w/eBay, let alone any sort of a profit when you factor in the hefty Seller and Paypal fees as well as S & H costs .. but this isn't anything new really. Just clarifying and making mandatory something that should be anyway.

[ChrisStufflestreet]

As primarily an Ebay buyer (and occasional seller), there's something particularly galling about hearing that the seller isn't responsible unless the buyer purchases insurance.

As a buyer, I've had this happen a couple of times...when I'd get that explanation, I'd ask the following question: "when I sent you the payment, had it been lost in the mail, would you have accepted that as a reason?"

The answer was always no.

[Jason Carota]

Or you can "SELF-INSURE". On the small stuff (Less than $50.00) I do not pay for insurance or DC. I have found that 98%+ of the buyers out there are honest and so far have had no problems. I have saved several hundred dollars on mailing costs by not paying for those services - more than enough to cover the cost of the inevitable "Lost Package".

Over $50.00 I insure & buy DC.

From eBay's Excessive Shipping Charges Policy:

No additional amount such as “self insurance” may be added. Sellers who do not use a licensed 3rd party insurance company may not require buyers to purchase insurance. This is a violation of state law.

[Pup6913]

I agree with all the points made. Yes it is good that Ebay is doing this and they will probably save thousands of $ in wasted time and calls with disputes over this. Alot of sellers are not Sears nor Amazon and don't have thousands of $ in items to replace and item with, nor $ to do so.

Regardless this is another way for Ebay to protect the buyer. This is great when I buy my cards on there. Makes selling smaller items difficult.

Ebay, Paypal, and the PO have a good thing going here. Sounds like a CONSPIRACY:D

[ChrisStufflestreet]

Ebay, Paypal, and the PO have a good thing going here. Sounds like a CONSPIRACY:D

Hmmm...

Considering the news that the U.S. Post Office is in such dire financial straits that they will be forced to shut down hundreds of offices across the nation, and soon after that, eBay announces a policy change that will allow more money to come their way? You may be on to something there...

[D. Bergin]

Furthermore, insurance on a $12 item is negligible.


Insurance on a $12.00 item is $1.75. Cost to ship a smaller item like a photo in an envelope with rigid backing for protection is about $2.06 with Delivery Confirmation if you get your shipping online. It's about $2.90 if you get it at the Post Office.

Associated Paypal and Ebay fees on that $12.00 item is about $2.05.

Total seller cost to sell and ship this item to the lucky buyer is $5.86 if shipping is done online. $6.70 if brought to the Post Office.

Just roll it in to the sellers costs I guess.

All and all I guess this is a bargain for the seller if all their items grew on a Memorabilia tree they planted in their backyard.


Self Insure?? - That's codeword for seller is "Sh*t outta luck" if the Post Office doesn't deliver item properly or the buyer decides the item was stolen from his front porch or mailbox................whether it was or not.

[Exhibitman]

If Ebay's real concern was merely forcing sellers to shoulder the risk, then it could simply mandate insured shipping and let the seller charge accordingly at checkout. By stating "You cannot charge the buyer a separate fee for insurance, either in a listing or after the buyer has committed to purchase the item" however, Ebay is mandating that sellers set up-front insurance charges. It is impossible to set an insurance charge for an auction item because you don't know the final value. Last week for example I had two 1977 Topps cards soar way past my high estimate of their value and sell for over $100. Unless I jacked the buyer for a huge insurance charge up front there is no way I could have charged for insurance to actual value because I did not know the value. I submit that this new rule is another effort at making the auction seller go away. It wasn't enough to create a huge differential between the listing costs for auction and BIN items, I suppose, so now Ebay pushes the risk and cost of insurance onto the sellers, which is a non-issue in calculating a BIN shipping cost but a huge PITA when trying to calculate an auction listing.

[tbob]

One thing I think is incredibly stupid and wrong is that ebay now limits what a seller charges for shipping to a certain amount. If you are required to clearly state shipping costs in your ad (required by ebay) why can't you just skip items with exorbitant shipping? No longer can you ship an item priority mail (or at least they don't let me) and charge either exact postage for shipping. Actually I was going in the hole because I ALWAYS send with a delivery confirmation. Sending it priority mail was a way of sending it in a stiff, sturdy box for protection plus getting it there fast. Now the guys who use recycled envelopes, sometimes not even padded, are rewarded and can actually charge more than actual postage by sending it media mail. It just doesn't make sense! :confused:
BTW- I still see others who send out a poster on ebay and charge $12 shipping for a $5 item but sports card sellers are discriminated against.