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View Full Version : E79 Phila. Caramel 27 Scrappers: Anyone have the Spring 2006 issue of SGC Magazine?


mikedenero
08-07-2009, 10:33 AM
I am in the midst of writing an article on the E79 27 Scrappers set. Apparently, there are two SGC Collector Mag issues which discuss that set (issued back to bak in 2006). I have the second -- need a scanned copy of the article in the first. Can anyone help?

Exhibitman
08-07-2009, 11:50 AM
In my book I state that the 27 set's count is inaccurate and the 44 set's count is accurate. Mike has raised a good point with regard to the counts, which I thought warranted further discussion. The 27 backs list 19 Scrappers by name and say there are 8 more. I get 7 more, not 8. These break down to the 19 named guys, the two "fist" cards, and five additional appearances of fighters named on the back already as part of in action cards. They are broken down as follows:

Subjects Named On 27 Series Back
1. Gans
2. Nelson
3. Jeffries
4. Corbett
5. Johnson
6. Hart
7. Cole
8. Sharkey
9. Jeannette
10. Burns
11. Attell
12. Ketchell
13. O’Brien
14. Sullivan
15. Marto
16. Langford
17. Rawlin
18. Kaufman
19. Fitzsimmons
Subjects Not Named On 27 Series Back
20. Arm and Clinched Fist
21. Arm and Clinched Fist
Duplicated Subjects (additional appearances noted with parenthetical count)
Johnson (1)/Cole
Johnson (2)/Burns (3)
Kaufman/Sullivan (4)
Marto/Nelson (5)

Note that Cole, Kaufman and Marto only have one appearance in the 27s, on the in action cards with guys who have another card, so they have no parenthetical counts because they are already called out by name on the checklist. Johnson appears on three cards, individually, with Cole and with Burns.

You could call O’Brien’s unnamed partner the 27th scrapper to get the 27 Scrappers count. However, if you count the "partner" listed on the 27 card backs as a Scrapper, then you should do the same on the 44 set, where the 44 backs have 3 "partners" listed, including O'Brien's partner. That gives you 25 Scrappers in the 27 checklist and 44 on the 44 checklist. The only way you get a 27 subject set count is to add the two fist cards to the count, which are not listed on either the 27 or the 44 back but which I've personally seen in red ink and in black ink with 27 backs. Those two are mandatory to reach the set count on the 27 checklist, yet yield 46 subjects if you add them to the 44 checklist of the full issue. If you drop the fist cards, you reduce the 27 count to 25 and the 46 count to 44. If you you omit the three partners from the count and count the fist cards, the counts are 26 and 43, respectively. In short, the numbers don't add up, especially if you treat red back 27s as E80 issues, since the fists are in both red and black back format. FWIW, my view is that there are 21 cards with the 27 backs (red or black) and 11 cards with the 44 backs, and that everything else is probably the result of some clerical error in doing the write-ups, and that the correct labels are E79 (21 cards), E79 red back (21 cards), and E80 (11 cards). If someone appointed me Grand Poobah of collecting I would probably scrap [pun intended] the E79-E80 distinction and make it all one issue.

caramelcard
08-07-2009, 07:13 PM
Hi Adam,

Throwing out the two arms, there are 27 scrappers featured on the other 19 cards.

I know it's not 27 distinct scrappers, but it's 27 different poses.
It's not just that simple?

Rob

mikedenero
08-07-2009, 09:09 PM
Throwing out the two arms, there are 27 scrappers featured on the other 19 cards. I know it's not 27 distinct scrappers, but it's 27 different poses.
It's not just that simple?

Rob,
That's my view as well. Nineteen scrappers/boxers are delineated on the checklist back, which also states that there are "eight others." The 8 others are:
2 more Johnsons
1 more Burns
1 more Nelson
1 more Sullivan
1 O'Brien's fighting partner (unnamed)
1 other unnamed fighter on the Rawlins card
1 other unnamed fighter on the Sharkey card
= 27

In other words, you count all the bodies. Plus, the two anonymous fighters, although unidentified, are "scrappers" nonetheless! Finally, the arms/fists are simply body parts, rather than bodies ... As such, they are not scrappers! :p

mikedenero
08-07-2009, 11:48 PM
Throwing out the two arms ...

No pun intended, of course ... :p

Exhibitman
08-08-2009, 07:16 AM
So you just ignore two cards in the set? That doesn't seem to be right.

mikedenero
08-08-2009, 05:47 PM
So you just ignore two cards in the set? That doesn't seem to be right.

Adam,
Point well taken. Here's my answer. The set is called 27 Scrappers (not "21 Cards"); as such, we know they counted something other than cards. Since they are counting scrappers, I think it makes more sense to count unnamed boxers who appear on the cards and ignore cards which simply picture an arm. How does it make sense to count an arm/fist as a scrapper rather than an unnamed fighter pictured "scrapping" with a named fighter? A scrapper without a name is a scrapper nonetheless! :p

Also, since the checklist back has been a riddle for a century, perhaps Phila Caramel made the nebulous checklist to confuse kids who collected all 21 cards, thus forcing them to buy more caramels in search of the "eight other" scrappers, who a kid would assume to be real boxers not named on the checklist????

Exhibitman
08-09-2009, 11:27 AM
A corporation mislead customers to spur profits? Say it ain't so! :D

mikedenero
08-09-2009, 08:46 PM
A corporation mislead customers to spur profits? Say it ain't so! :D

Luckily, the past 100 years have cured such opportunistic corporate behavior. :p

BTW, would my body-counting theory hold on the E80
as well?