Not sure if this has been posted..Mastro in the Chicago Tribune

[whitehse]

I was reading my Morning Tribune and ran across this "problem solver" column that I pasted below as I couldnt get the link to work. Looks like someone else is having issues with Mastro.

Hopefully this issue is settled as mentioned in the column. This type of thing definitly does not make the world of sportscards look very good...or does it really matter to someone outside our hobby?

Here is the link if anyone needs to go directly to the Tribune and read it

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-thu-problem-baseball-cards-0aug06,0,2716082.column


Mastro Auctions slow in paying seller after company halted business
Jon Yates

What's Your Problem?

August 6, 2009
E-mail Print Vote For many baseball fans, it would be like manna from heaven -- an unexpected inheritance of extremely rare, extremely old baseball cards.

But Louis Dodaro fancies himself a surfer, not a baseball fan.

So when his uncle passed away last year and left him a stash of 1930s Goudey cards, the Riverwoods resident simply shrugged.

"I know some people would be drooling over this," Dodaro said. "I'm not a baseball card collector. I really don't know too much about this."

Still, he realized the cards that were at least 70 years old were valuable. So he plucked out a few of his favorites (including a couple of Lou Gehrigs) then gathered the remaining 136 cards for sale.

In September, he took the cards to Mastro Auctions in Burr Ridge. The 13-year-old company had received international media coverage for selling a lock of Elvis Presley's hair for $115,000, the infamous Steve Bartman baseball for $106,600 and a 1909 T206 Honus Wagner baseball card for $1.62 million. "They had a great reputation," Dodaro said. "I was very selective about these cards and who I went to."

But Mastro also had experienced its share of controversy. As reported in the Tribune last August, federal agents investigated the company for possible "shill bidding" in which bogus bids are submitted to drive up the price. No one has been charged.

Dodaro said he thought his cards were in good hands.

"I felt very comfortable," he said.

He felt even better when the cards sold in Mastro's February auction. But Dodaro said he wasn't told the sale price -- or how much he would receive. Weeks later, before Dodaro received payment, Mastro halted business.

On March 6, a group of Mastro employees bought the firm's assets and opened a new company, Legendary Auctions, based in Lansing.

Dodaro said he contacted a former Mastro employee, who promised he'd be paid in March. When that didn't happen, he called again and was told he'd be paid in June. Again, he did not receive a check.

By the time he contacted What's Your Problem? in July, he had almost given up.

"I have no indication when I'm going to get paid or even if I'm going to get paid," Dodaro said. "I called a couple times. They told me to call the controller for Mastro. I called. He never called back."

The Problem Solver called Doug Allen, a former Mastro employee who is president and chief executive at Legendary Auctions.

Allen said he no longer has any responsibilities at Mastro, which shut down because of financial problems. The first priority, he said, was to pay back money it owed to the bank. After that, Mastro intended to pay Dodaro and all other consignors, he said.

"They're not filing bankruptcy. They're not insolvent," Allen said. "They just have liquidity issues."

He said he remains in contact with the folks at Mastro, but Legendary Auctions is not responsible for Mastro's debts. Legendary, he said, is a completely separate entity.

"It's not a shell game where we said, 'Let's close this company and start a new one,' " Allen said. "It's not that."

Allen said he retained some records from Mastro, which showed Dodaro was owed $1,800 for his baseball cards. He promised to call Mastro's controller, Walter Tomala, and ask where Dodaro's money is.

The Problem Solver left repeated phone messages for Tomala but did not hear back. On Monday, the Problem Solver called Legendary Auctions' vice president and chief operating officer, Mark Theotikos, who also is a former Mastro employee. Theotikos promised to contact Tomala as well.

Tuesday morning, Tomala left a message on the Problem Solver's voice mail that said Dodaro's $1,800 check was in the mail.

"That's terrific," an elated Dodaro said. "When the check actually shows up and clears, I'll feel pretty good about it."

Dodaro said he plans to keep the half-dozen cards he still has, including the Gehrigs.

"They're probably going to be something I pass along to my future family," he said.

[calvindog]

The Problem Solver called Doug Allen, a former Mastro employee who is president and chief executive at Legendary Auctions.

Allen said he no longer has any responsibilities at Mastro, which shut down because of financial problems. The first priority, he said, was to pay back money it owed to the bank. After that, Mastro intended to pay Dodaro and all other consignors, he said.

"They're not filing bankruptcy. They're not insolvent," Allen said. "They just have liquidity issues."

He said he remains in contact with the folks at Mastro, but Legendary Auctions is not responsible for Mastro's debts. Legendary, he said, is a completely separate entity.

"It's not a shell game where we said, 'Let's close this company and start a new one,' " Allen said. "It's not that."

Allen said he retained some records from Mastro, which showed Dodaro was owed $1,800 for his baseball cards. He promised to call Mastro's controller, Walter Tomala, and ask where Dodaro's money is.

The Problem Solver left repeated phone messages for Tomala but did not hear back. On Monday, the Problem Solver called Legendary Auctions' vice president and chief operating officer, Mark Theotikos, who also is a former Mastro employee. Theotikos promised to contact Tomala as well.




My favorite line: "It's not a shell game where we said, 'Let's close this company and start a new one,' " Allen said. "It's not that."

Doug is like the baseball player who holds out for a bigger contract and then turns to the camera and says "it's not about the money."

[Peter_Spaeth]

"It's not a shell game where we said, 'Let's close this company and start a new one,' " Allen said. "It's not that."

:confused::confused::confused:

[Peter_Spaeth]

As Hamlet said, the lady doth protest too much, methinks.

[RichardSimon]

This crap has gotten so much negative public exposure,,, another black eye for the hobby and who do we have to blame for it?

[bijoem]

"It's not a shell game where we said, 'Let's close this company and start a new one,' " Allen said. "It's not that."


I love that quote.

It reminds me of the Wizard of Oz....
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."

[Jim VB]

I guess I don't see this as a black eye for the entire hobby. When a store I have a gift certificate for goes belly up, I don't hold the entire industry responsible, just that store and their owners.

I see this as a black eye for Mastro, for sure, and for the principals involved. The attempt to walk away from a financially struggling company and start up another company, with the purchased assets of the first, while not addressing the liabilities, is both troubling and transparent.

I don't even think that Mastro's, er... I mean Legendary's biggest problem is bidders boycotting. They will still have some, if not most bidders. Their biggest problem will be consignors not consigning, going forward. If word is out industry wide that a company is having trouble paying consignors, it won't take long for those consignments to dry up. When that happens, the whole bidder thing takes care of itself, very quickly.

As far as the hobby goes, there are still plenty of auction houses around and most pay their consignors, and pay them on a timely basis.

[calvindog]

Has anyone ever seen John Rogers and Doug Allen in the same room together?

[RichardSimon]

Jim, what I should have said is that there are so many individual black eyes getting publicity in the hobby that another one just adds to the negative public perception, especially when it happens to the industry "giant".
The king is dead, long live the king.

[Jim VB]

Jim, what I should have said is that there are so many individual black eyes getting publicity in the hobby that another one just adds to the negative public perception, especially when it happens to the industry "giant".


That's fair enough, but there are far too many good guys in this hobby to tar them all with the same brush.

I agree that continuing negative stories make the hobby look bad to any outsiders (if they bother to read news stories about baseball cards anyway.) But these outsiders don't feed and don't fund our hobby anyway. We "insiders" do. And we can continue to help clean it up by funneling our consignments and our money to the guys we know are clean.

Mastro being unable to, and/or refusing to pay their bills, should leave no mark on the other guys who operate cleanly.

I'll also add that I'm not naive about what has gone on, and still goes on, at many major auction houses. Cards are "sold" and then up for auction again far too often to be a coincidence. The volume of high grade material available is striking. I've collected, on and off for close to 30 years. How is it that there is more "mint" material available than there was 30 years ago. Not just a little more, but much more. Big finds account for some, but who is kidding whom? (Barry, did I get that who/whom thing right?)

I collect both Sports and Non-Sports. Looking at shows and auctions would lead me to one startling conclusion. For the last 100 years or more, people who collected routinely took better care of their baseball cards than they did their Non-Sports cards. Those damn kids were preserving their T206's carefully, while trashing their T59's! They were protecting their 1933 Goudey Baseball Cards at the same time they were destroying their Indian Gum and SkyBirds!

Obviously, like in every other phase of life, fraud and deception follows the money. It hit the Baseball Card hobby years ago while we weren't paying attention. It only grazed Non-Sports. It hit the autograph industry hard, while missing other collectible hobbies.

While I appreciate the help of the media and law enforcement, only collectors can clean it up.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Of course, the website could be out of date, but according to the Illinois Secretary of State, Mastro Auctions now goes by the name Ketap Company and the President of Ketap is none other than Doug Allen.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Entity Name KETAP COMPANY File Number 61148272
Status NOT GOOD STANDING
Entity Type CORPORATION Type of Corp FOREIGN BCA
Qualification Date (Foreign) 07/10/2000 State DELAWARE
Agent Name RICHARD L WEISS Agent Change Date 06/26/2007
Agent Street Address 801 SKOKIE BOULEVARD 100 President Name & Address DOUG ALLEN XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, BURR RIDGE, IL 60527
Agent City NORTHBROOK Secretary Name & Address MATTHEW ROSZAK SAME
Agent Zip 60062 Duration Date PERPETUAL
Annual Report Filing Date 00/00/0000 For Year 2009
Assumed Name INACTIVE - MASTRO AUCTIONS, INC.

Old Corp Name 03/13/2009 - MASTRONET, INC.

[barrysloate]

Looks good to me.:)

Edited to add you can just as easily get away with "who is kidding who" as in "who's who" (you wouldn't see "who's whom").

As I get older I forget the rules anyway.

[calvindog]

But wait, Dougie has nothing to do with Mastro. And nothing to do with paying off Mastro's debts to consignors. And has nothing to do with any lawsuit against Dave Forman. Yet you mean that Doug Allen is presently the President of Mastro? Now it makes sense: just have your dogs bark at Mastro's President (Allen) and you can get paid by Mastro's President (Allen).

I am stunned at this turn of events.

[barrysloate]

Jim- better leave the cleaning up to law enforcement, because I don't believe collectors are able to do it themselves. Collectors are addicted to the stuff, and when you're addicted you need help from the outside.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jeff one would like to think the Illinois official state website would be reasonably up to date, and it does mention the name change on March 13, 2009, which I believe coincides with the Mastro-Legendary transaction. So apparently something was filed at that time to indicate the name change but that filing did not indicate a change in the president. But, as I said before it could be inaccurate. No information about Ketap's officers is available through the Delaware secretary of state's website.

[Jim VB]

Translation for Jeff's post:


Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

[a croupier hands Renault a pile of money]

Croupier: Your winnings, sir.

Captain Renault: [sotto voce] Oh, thank you very much.

[aloud]
Captain Renault: Everybody out at once!

[Anthony S.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jqQsDklQEM

[Jim VB]

Jim- better leave the cleaning up to law enforcement, because I don't believe collectors are able to do it themselves. Collectors are addicted to the stuff, and when you're addicted you need help from the outside.


That's a huge part of the problem Barry. This stuff is like heroin for some. We're just pumping it into our veins. But some get upset when the media reports problems.

O'Keefe fielded a question at the dinner that asked something like this "I saw a dad and his son, going through the show today, buying lots of cards and spending $10-$20. Why don't you report that?"

I almost spit out my (free) beer. Why would an investigative reporter write about that?

As Lance said on one of the other threads, we have to control it by who we give consignments to. The guys with no decent consignments will get poor sales results and that will take care of them.

[Rob D.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jqQsDklQEM

Because we're talking about some auction houses and their relationships with consignors/bidders, and because Anthony let the Kevin Bacon/Animal House genie out of the bottle, this also seems appropriate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdFLPn30dvQ&NR=1

[barrysloate]

Jim- I was more than a bit skeptical when I saw the "I'm not bidding in Legendary Auctions" thread. I suspect most of those who vowed to boycott will end it at the first sign of a card they need.

I don't mean to be cynical but that's part of the problem. Auction houses know how obsessed collectors are and they take full advantage of it. They know that they can get away with just about anything and the collectors will still come back.

And they long ago identified those collectors who won't stop bidding on an item until they get it, regardless of the price. Those are the ones, sadly, who were shilled the most.

[Jim VB]

Jim- I was more than a bit skeptical when I saw the "I'm not bidding in Legendary Auctions" thread. I suspect most of those who vowed to boycott will end it at the first sign of a card they need.

I don't mean to be cynical but that's part of the problem. Auction houses know how obsessed collectors are and they take full advantage of it. They know that they can get away with just about anything and the collectors will still come back.

And they long ago identified those collectors who won't stop bidding on an item until they get it, regardless of the price. Those are the ones, sadly, who were shilled the most.

I agree that most houses will laugh off any attempted bidder boycott. But not paying consignors, and a subsequent consignor boycott, will catch up to them much faster.

[calvindog]

Does anyone know if Bob Gibson has loud, barking dogs?

[RichardSimon]

Auction house exec: I'm shocked, shocked to find that shilling is going on in here!

[a collector hands the exec a pile of money]

Collector: the winning bids, sir.

Auction house exec: [sotto voce] Oh, thank you very much.

[aloud]
Auction house exec: Everybody out at once!
------------

[barrysloate]

I agree that consignors can and should boycott.

[Matt]

Hopefully the more these articles make it into the mainstream media, more consignors will know of the issues. For someone like the consignor of the Goudey lot described in the article he wouldn't otherwise have any way of knowing about these issues. I can't imagine that anyone who knows they may not get paid for months and even then only with a fight would consign to such a house.

[autograf]

isn't Ketap backwards for Patek? Maybe former KC Royal Freddie Patek is somehow involved in all this..........

[Anthony S.]

I can't imagine that telling Bob Gibson his consignment check was delayed would end well.

[Vintagedegu]

-

[Exhibitman]

"It's not a shell game where we said, 'Let's close this company and start a new one,' " Allen said. "It's not that."


Riiiggghhhtttt.....

[jmk59]

"It's not a shell game where we said, 'Let's close this company and start a new one,' " Allen said. "It's not that."





Well that settles it then. We were wondering.

[botn]

I am still trying to digest this one Peter Spaeth posted yesterday.

From the NY Daily News
Allen says the matter is out of his hands. The responsibility to pay consigners and other creditors belongs to Mastro Auctions, which was owned by Silk Road Equity. Silk Road has a small stake in the new auction business, Allen adds, but Legendary Auctions is a completely separate entity from Mastro Auctions. "I will share their frustrations until everybody who did business with Mastro Auctions is made whole," Allen says. "I wish we could meet those old obligations and start with a clean slate. But legally, we have done everything appropriate."

I was remaining neutral with regards to my stance on the Mastro/Legendary issues however the above is completely distasteful and unacceptable. If Doug is being quoted accurately his days are numbered in the hobby.

[slidekellyslide]

I am still trying to digest this one Peter Spaeth posted yesterday.

From the NY Daily News
Allen says the matter is out of his hands. The responsibility to pay consigners and other creditors belongs to Mastro Auctions, which was owned by Silk Road Equity. Silk Road has a small stake in the new auction business, Allen adds, but Legendary Auctions is a completely separate entity from Mastro Auctions. "I will share their frustrations until everybody who did business with Mastro Auctions is made whole," Allen says. "I wish we could meet those old obligations and start with a clean slate. But legally, we have done everything appropriate."

I was remaining neutral with regards to my stance on the Mastro/Legendary issues however the above is completely distasteful and unacceptable. If Doug is being quoted accurately his days are numbered in the hobby.

This is exactly what I said a long time ago...I am certain they did everything legally to make sure their new enterprise has nothing to do with Mastro. It's sad that the only people Mastro seems to be taking care of are the ones that come to this board because they know a good portion of their customer base participates or reads this forum.

[calvindog]

I am still trying to digest this one Peter Spaeth posted yesterday.

From the NY Daily News
Allen says the matter is out of his hands. The responsibility to pay consigners and other creditors belongs to Mastro Auctions, which was owned by Silk Road Equity. Silk Road has a small stake in the new auction business, Allen adds, but Legendary Auctions is a completely separate entity from Mastro Auctions. "I will share their frustrations until everybody who did business with Mastro Auctions is made whole," Allen says. "I wish we could meet those old obligations and start with a clean slate. But legally, we have done everything appropriate."

I was remaining neutral with regards to my stance on the Mastro/Legendary issues however the above is completely distasteful and unacceptable. If Doug is being quoted accurately his days are numbered in the hobby.

How can Doug distance himself from Mastro when he's the President of Ketap, the company formerly known as Mastro? Doug IS Mastro.

And how would you like to be a consignor of Mastr--woops Ketap--woops Legendary when the music stops and they've got your cards and money? And Doug doesn't take your calls or emails? Oh wait -- that's already happened.

[mikedenero]

isn't Ketap backwards for Patek? Maybe former KC Royal Freddie Patek is somehow involved in all this..........

Ha! Now THAT would be hilarious!

[RichardSimon]

This is exactly what I said a long time ago...I am certain they did everything legally to make sure their new enterprise has nothing to do with Mastro. It's sad that the only people Mastro seems to be taking care of are the ones that come to this board because they know a good portion of their customer base participates or reads this forum.

It is not sad that they are only taking care of the people who come to this board. It is a sign of their immorality.

[mikedenero]

How can Doug distance himself from Mastro when he's the President of Ketap, the company formerly known as Mastro? Doug IS Mastro.

I apologize, in advance, if what I am about to ask has already been revealed on a prior related thread, but does anyone know what Doug's ownership stake in Mastro/Ketap is (or was) as well as his ownership stake in Legendary or it's parent company?

[Matt]

When I first read Ketap I read it as Kaput.

[Tony Gordon]

Greetings from the Illinois Secretary of State's resident vintage collector. I can vouch for the accuracy of our website. A lot of folks work very hard to make sure that website (www.cyberdriveillinois.com) is up to date and accurate. If you go to the corp/LLC search on the site and punch in Mastro, you'll see three or four companies using the name. It seems to me that the old Mastronet Inc. was parceled off into three or four companies. As a result, any creditor (a consignor) of Mastronet would most likely have to file a lawsuit and name as defendants all the new Mastro entities and let the courts sort out which one or ones have liability.

As a side note, Illinois Secretary of State Jesse White played minor league ball in the 1950s and was a minor league teammate of Ernie Banks. He was a pretty good second baseman and not a bad hitter.

[calvindog]

Tony, thanks for that. So apparently as of today, Doug Allen is the President of Ketap, formerly known as Mastro Auctions, Inc.

So why does Doug continue to say that he has nothing to do with Mastro?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jeff, perhaps holding that office is just a technicality?

[calvindog]

Lol

[Peter_Spaeth]

The most stunning part of all this, for me, is the apparent failure to anticipate the reaction hobbyists would have to pronouncements of the sort Doug made today and previously.

[Kenny Cole]

I have tried very hard to stay out of this, but that last comment from Mr. Allen was, at best, absurd. IMO, all you have to do to see that Mastro/Legendary are the same enterprise is to be moderately literate.

Based on what I have read, if I was an unpaid consignor I would file an alter-ego/instrumentality lawsuit, allege fraud, name all of the companies, sue the principals individually, get the financials, and look forward to the depositions. I suspect they would be really ugly.

Kenny Cole

[Peter_Spaeth]

I have tried very hard to stay out of this, but that last comment from Mr. Allen was, at best, absurd. IMO, all you have to do to see that Mastro/Legendary are the same enterprise is to be moderately literate.

Based on what I have read, if I was an unpaid consignor I would file an alter-ego/instrumentality lawsuit, allege fraud, name all of the companies, sue the principals individually, get the financials, and look forward to the depositions. I suspect they would be really ugly.

Kenny Cole

Doug might have to bring a couple of hats to the deposition -- white, as he is a great guy.

[Jay Wolt]

What if ????

OK so if Legendary is a seperate enterprise from Mastro
and Mastro now no longer exists.
What if the past people pay off their debt to Mastro?
It is said that they have hundreds of thousands outstanding from their past auctions.

Who get the dough?

I'm confused about so many issues concerning the old auction house and the new & improved one.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jay, Mastro still exists, it just changed its name to Ketap. So in the first instance that entity would get any money collected by or paid to Mastro.

[botn]

What a great deal to get all the assets and none of the liabilities. I wanna make a deal like that.

[calvindog]

Jay, Mastro still exists, it just changed its name to Ketap. So in the first instance that entity would get any money collected by or paid to Mastro.

Of which Doug is the President. But he claims that he's not responsible for paying any of Mastro's debts off.

[Kenny Cole]

The problem with public pronouncements is that they are public and thus, easy to force-feed the deponent who, after all, is sworn to tell the truth. I have watched this cluster-f___ unravel with a fair amount of amazement at the pronouncements, both written and oral, which have been made. If I was trying to skate paying folks I owed money to, I don't think I would probably have said some of those things.

[Rob D.]

I'd pony up some cash if for the next name change, Legendary becomes:

[Reginald Marsh]

In all seriousness i really do not get it. Doug and these guys are easily found. If this dude owed me money it would have been collected at the National. In my opinion they are just waiting to see if some of the consignors just go away so they can get out of paying. I strolled by Doug and the boys on several occasions and they looked at ease in my opinion as if they had no worries in the world.

[Peter_Spaeth]

. I strolled by Doug and the boys on several occasions and they looked at ease in my opinion as if they had no worries in the world.

Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

[4815162342]

Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

That proverb has rung true for centuries, whether it's shekels, dollars, or vintage baseball cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If Silk Road Equity's website is to be believed, it is a firm with substantial capital. One would think a sounder business strategy would have been to inject the cash necessary to pay off consignors (could it have been THAT much?), rather than to leave them unpaid, and generate a tremendous amount of bad will by insisting they aren't Legendary's problem.

[calvindog]

Peter, you're forgetting the Mastro Rules of Conduct which are tattooed on every employee's arm upon hiring:

1) Money goes in, not out;

2) Lie always (even when unnecessary -- sometimes you just need to practice);

3) Leak lawsuits to the press to avoid questions about 1);

3) See 1) to 3).

[Peter_Spaeth]

"We typically make $1 million to $20 million equity investments, alone or as part of a syndicate, and can go much higher given our stable of relationships with institutional investors. Our financial strength gives us the flexibility to provide follow up rounds of funding and support your business through differing market conditions."

Hmmmm..... one would think.... oh well.......

[mikedenero]

Of which Doug is the President. But he claims that he's not responsible for paying any of Mastro's debts off.

I hate to keep beating a dead horse here, but does anyone know (rather than speculate) what Doug's ownership stake in Mastro/Ketap is/was and what it is in Legendary?

[Peter_Spaeth]

The issue is not really piercing the veil to get to Doug individually, in my opinion, but rather, whether Legendary (the ongoing business) is liable for Mastro's debts on an alter ego and/or fraudulent conveyance theory.

[Ladder7]

"As far as I can tell, your entire enterprise is nothing more than a solitary man with a messy apartment, which may or may not contain a chicken!"

"And with Darren’s help, we’ll get that chicken."

Rob, Thanks for getting me thinking.

[David W]

I agree that most houses will laugh off any attempted bidder boycott. But not paying consignors, and a subsequent consignor boycott, will catch up to them much faster.

That seems to be the issue. It doesn't sound like buyers never received their cards, but consignors didn't get the cash.

So it's safe to buy but not to consign, apparently.

Who then, would consign anything of significant value to them without a significant cash advance?

[slantycouch]

"As far as I can tell, your entire enterprise is nothing more than a solitary man with a messy apartment, which may or may not contain a chicken!"

"And with Darren’s help, we’ll get that chicken."

Rob, Thanks for getting me thinking.


"You know Darren, if you would have told me twenty-five years ago that some day I'd be standing here about to solve the world's energy problems, I would've said you're crazy... Now let's push this giant ball of oil out the window."

[mikedenero]

The issue is not really piercing the veil to get to Doug individually, in my opinion, but rather, whether Legendary (the ongoing business) is liable for Mastro's debts on an alter ego and/or fraudulent conveyance theory.


Right - I agree 100%. But, hypothetically speaking (of course), if such claims are viable (key words here: "if" and "viable"), the same facts might (key word here: "might") implicate a veil piercing claim against the orchestrator(s).

[Rob D.]

Steve,

Your fly is open.

Signed,

Dean Jones

[mikedenero]

Who then, would consign anything of significant value to them without a significant cash advance?

Good point. To take it a step further, aren't there enough other viable big (or medium sized) auction house consignment (not to mention non-auction house) options out there?

[Jim VB]

That seems to be the issue. It doesn't sound like buyers never received their cards, but consignors didn't get the cash.

So it's safe to buy but not to consign, apparently.

Who then, would consign anything of significant value to them without a significant cash advance?


Dave,

I'm not an attorney, but some here would tell you that receiving your cards does not put you in the clear. If Mastro never pays the original consignor, no title has passed. The deal is incomplete and your cards could be confiscated at a later date and returned to the consignor.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Hypothetically speaking, it would be very interesting to see the documentation of the Mastro/Legendary transaction.

[mikedenero]

I agree, hypothetically (of course). :D

[botn]

trans⋅ac⋅tion  Pronunciation [tran-sak-shuhn, -zak-]
–noun
1. the act of transacting or the fact of being transacted.
2. an instance or process of transacting something.
3. something that is transacted, esp. a business agreement.

[turtleguy64]

If you are a Feb. Mastronet consignor who has not been paid until now(like me),and you've received the Aug. Legendary Auction catalogue,do this: re-package it and send it back to Legendary with Attn: Doug Allen on the front.Media mail will do fine.Include a courteous note that you would love to bid on their auction but you have not as yet received your Mastro consignment money.It can't hurt and you are simply stating a fact.I am doing this as my protest.

[Mark]

A nice way to say it. I wish that their next auction had more in it so that you could be paid back faster.

[RichardSimon]

A nice way to say it. I wish that their next auction had more in it so that you could be paid back faster.

How could the auction have more in it? The word is getting out that consignors from Feb. have not been paid. Who wants to consign and worry about not getting paid?
Anybody want to forecast an over/under number on how long Legendary can stay in business. I make the line 13 months, over or under?

[Mark]

swimsuit models.

[botn]

Gosh I think they may too great to even get to 13 months. Unless of course they can promote their business by listing some cards for $25,000 on ebay.

[Sean_C]

American Memorabilia is already doing that. Unless Doug wants to put on a speedo (great, there goes my ability to sleep or keep down solid foods for the next few days.)....

swimsuit models.

[turtleguy64]

I took a quick look at the Legendary August auction and it was a strange mix of some quality stuff and some "let's add more lots in spite of the values."I am sticking with my protest plan and will return the catalogue this weekend.

[turtleguy64]

Is it not true that Legendary bills consignors for getting their items professionally graded?I would like to know since a friend of mine consigned to their first auction and received a bill for 1,000.00 for getting some of his stuff graded.Anyone out there have the same experience?

[HRBAKER]

Unless I misread the post (very possible at my age and as a micro-mind), there is a post on the Non-Sports board where they sent out and billed a lady $40,000 for grading. I am sure at a level like that it was something that was agreed to beforehand.

[Wesley]

Is it not true that Legendary bills consignors for getting their items professionally graded?I would like to know since a friend of mine consigned to their first auction and received a bill for 1,000.00 for getting some of his stuff graded.Anyone out there have the same experience?


I thought that Mastro had a deal with grading companies to have cards graded for $7 each irrespective of tier, but I guess that is not true. Doug Allen told me that the cost of grading a single card was $250, and that was the reason why Mastro could not pay the remaining $200 due to me from my February consignments.

$250 seems like a lot of money to grade one card, but I told Doug if he could show me a copy of the PSA invoice showing the $250 charge, that we could just call it the day. It has been three weeks and I still have not heard anything from Doug.

[Anthony S.]

$250? I think that's the service tier where the return the card via unicorn.

[Matt]

$250? I think that's the service tier where the return the card via unicorn.
Well played.

[Mark]

$250 is for a card with a declared value of $10,000 plus. I hope you got a good price for the card.

[RichardSimon]

I thought that Mastro had a deal with grading companies to have cards graded for $7 each irrespective of tier, but I guess that is not true. Doug Allen told me that the cost of grading a single card was $250, and that was the reason why Mastro could not pay the remaining $200 due to me from my February consignments.

$250 seems like a lot of money to grade one card, but I told Doug if he could show me a copy of the PSA invoice showing the $250 charge, that we could just call it the day. It has been three weeks and I still have not heard anything from Doug.

And does this surprise anyone?

[botn]

Doug may very well be the greatest.

[WarHoundR69]

Now it turns out that they are not paying consignors from the April Legendary Auction. There is a thread about it on the NonSports side.

[PGACPA]

Reminds me of the of a cartoon I saw a while back, I think in The New Yorker:
Two businessmen in suits standing in an office...

Q "Wow, how did you go bankrupt?"
A "A little bit at a time then all at once."

I'm afraid this is not going to end well for the Mastro/Legendary cast of characters.

[RichardSimon]

Doug may very well be the greatest.

the greatest what?

[Reginald Marsh]

The truth is that if a card is a 5 figure card PSA will charge you 250 to grade the card. Alot of folks try to slide cards by putting a huge card with a common lot but all that does is piss the graders off.

I'm really trying to figure out why people still want to consign and do business with these folks. It is not like they are fetching huge dollars that another auction house cannot.

I did not even bother to introduce myself to the Legendary boys at the National because i could tell they were to cool for school. I stayed at the Marriot and saw them many times in the lobby and my first thought was they remind me of like Winnie the Pooh, very easy to read.

[botn]

the greatest what?

Well...the greatest of the 'great' guys, of course.

[turtleguy64]

Hey,all of you posters,does this Legendary Auction /Mastro group not remind you of that docu"The Smartest Guys In The Room?"Of course,that was about Enron.Bizarre.

[calvindog]

Now it turns out that they are not paying consignors from the April Legendary Auction. There is a thread about it on the NonSports side.

Uh, oh. I guess I should let Dave Forman know that there will be another leak to the Daily News about him any second now...

[Reginald Marsh]

Is it me or does Ron Oser look like a Art Garfunkel stunt double?

[WarHoundR69]

According to the thread on the Net54 Nonsport Forum, the vast majority of the NonSport Cards in the April Auction was consigned by a man suffering from cancer (He has since passed away). His widow was charged 40K in grading fees and so far has only received half the money she was owed.

[calvindog]

Now that is legendary greed and cruelty.

Who will Doug blame this one on?

[Reginald Marsh]

How can anyone spend 40k on grading fees? Can we get any info on the cards that were graded in regards to how many were submitted? Also who did the grading?

[Rich Klein]

http://www.network54.com/Forum/526604/thread/1248742459/last-1250225647/Legendary+Auctions

Regards
Rich

[zork1974]

That just makes my stomach churn.

[RichardSimon]

According to the thread on the Net54 Nonsport Forum, the vast majority of the NonSport Cards in the April Auction was consigned by a man suffering from cancer (He has since passed away). His widow was charged 40K in grading fees and so far has only received half the money she was owed.

If this is true, then Legendary's conduct is beyond unbelievable. But who is surprised?
I would like to know more about this though. So far only one person has made these claims about the non-sports Legendary auction. And he is not the one who got burned.

[Anthony K.]

I see there is still trouble surrounding Mastro in this hobby.

Still upset over the shady doings and business practices between them and PSA in the 90's (which I am sure still go on today).

[buymycards]

OK, so if Doug Allen isn't associated with Mastro, why did he keep "some of Mastro's records"? He just happened to have the record of the consigner that was owed $1800?

Why would he have access to any of Mastro's records? Why would Mastro let him have these records?

I wonder who signed the check.

[WarHoundR69]

Sorta like Mastro & Dave Forman, which is happening now, and not back in the 90's.

[zork1974]

I see there is still trouble surrounding Mastro in this hobby.

Still upset over the shady doings and business practices between them and PSA in the 90's (which I am sure still go on today).

So -- should I be worried about purchasing PSA graded cards?:confused:

[turtleguy64]

Well,consider this story .It was reported in the form of a letter to the editor of Sports Collector's Digest about 4 years ago.Writer said that he sent a large group of turn of the century cards to PSA fror grading.They were all returned as reproductions.He turned around and forwarded this group to the big auctionhouse at that time(take a guess-he wouldn't name them).Voila! Cards were put in their auction after being graded by PSA.

[Peter_Spaeth]

There are certainly many legitimate criticisms of PSA but I don't believe they would intentionally slab a bunch of reprints, even if great guys were involved.

[bcornell]

There are certainly many legitimate criticisms of PSA but I don't believe they would intentionally slab a bunch of reprints, even if great guys were involved.

Why not, Peter? Are they competent?


Bill

[Peter_Spaeth]

I said "intentionally." The implication of the post was that they knowingly slabbed reprints as a favor to Mastro. I don't believe it.

[turtleguy64]

That letter writer to SCD did not mention the name of the auctionhouse which received his twice graded cards.Mastronet was not named.That should be clear.
Here is an update on my until now unpaid consignment $ from that last Mastro Feb. auction.Say what you will about Doug Allen ,and he has been getting the brunt of the Mastro association criticism,but he "manned up" and called me on the phone last night to explain the entire Mastronet situation and how it applied to Legendary.I personally returned to him the current Legendary Aug. catalogue with my personal note relating my until now great relationship with both companies, my waiting period for the $.He spoke to me for a good 35 minutes covering the entire history of the dissolvement of Mastronet,shilling accusations,what looks to me like a fishing expedition by the FBI, and start up of Legendary.The guy has always been straight with me .To tell you truth I KNEW he would call after getting my letter.He is that type of stand up guy.He has taken some shots , a lot unfair.Is it guilt by association?We cannot say for sure but I give him props for calling me and clearing the air.

[Matt]

That letter writer to SCD did not mention the name of the auctionhouse which received his twice graded cards.Mastronet was not named.That should be clear.
Here is an update on my until now unpaid consignment $ from that last Mastro Feb. auction.Say what you will about Doug Allen ,and he has been getting the brunt of the Mastro association criticism,but he "manned up" and called me on the phone last night to explain the entire Mastronet situation and how it applied to Legendary.I personally returned to him the current Legendary Aug. catalogue with my personal note relating my until now great relationship with both companies, my waiting period for the $.He spoke to me for a good 35 minutes covering the entire history of the dissolvement of Mastronet,shilling accusations,what looks to me like a fishing expedition by the FBI, and start up of Legendary.The guy has always been straight with me .To tell you truth I KNEW he would call after getting my letter.He is that type of stand up guy.He has taken some shots , a lot unfair.Is it guilt by association?We cannot say for sure but I give him props for calling me and clearing the air.

Did you get your $?

[turtleguy64]

No $ as yet but my conversation with Doug Allen was just Monday evening .As Andy Dufrene said in Shawshank Redemption,"You 've got to have hope."

[calvindog]

That letter writer to SCD did not mention the name of the auctionhouse which received his twice graded cards.Mastronet was not named.That should be clear.
Here is an update on my until now unpaid consignment $ from that last Mastro Feb. auction.Say what you will about Doug Allen ,and he has been getting the brunt of the Mastro association criticism,but he "manned up" and called me on the phone last night to explain the entire Mastronet situation and how it applied to Legendary.I personally returned to him the current Legendary Aug. catalogue with my personal note relating my until now great relationship with both companies, my waiting period for the $.He spoke to me for a good 35 minutes covering the entire history of the dissolvement of Mastronet,shilling accusations,what looks to me like a fishing expedition by the FBI, and start up of Legendary.The guy has always been straight with me .To tell you truth I KNEW he would call after getting my letter.He is that type of stand up guy.He has taken some shots , a lot unfair.Is it guilt by association?We cannot say for sure but I give him props for calling me and clearing the air.

Good thing for Doug that his statements were not under oath and subject to penalties of perjury.

[calvindog]

Did his nose at least grow during the conversation?

[turtleguy64]

We are a country all about 2nd chances,no?Ya gotta have faith and the hope that people will in the end do the right thing.Witness the Michael Vick situation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

So the President of Mastro justified to you why you haven't been paid for a consignment to a February auction, and you are giving him credit for being forthright? :confused:

[Jim VB]

No $ as yet but my conversation with Doug Allen was just Monday evening .As Andy Dufrene said in Shawshank Redemption,"You 've got to have hope."

Too bad you can't use "hope" to pay the mortgage or utility bills!

:D

Edited to add: Will he issue you a "hope" credit to be used in his next auction?

[calvindog]

We are a country all about 2nd chances,no?Ya gotta have faith and the hope that people will in the end do the right thing.Witness the Michael Vick situation.

Problem with your comment is that Mike Vick accepted responsibility for his actions, plead guilty and did time for his crimes. Doug Allen still maintains he's the victim of a card-hating government hell-bent on destroying the cardboard dreams of many a men.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If Legendary really BOUGHT Mastro's assets for fair value, and it wasn't a shell game, why can't Mastro use THAT money to pay consignors? :confused:

[Sean_C]

I wonder what kind of salary Doug is making as the president of Mastro (or whatever that company is named now) to go along with his salary as president of Legendary.

[RichardSimon]

If Legendary really BOUGHT Mastro's assets for fair value, and it wasn't a shell game, why can't Mastro use THAT money to pay consignors? :confused:

You are actually asking him to do the honorable thing? You should know better than that :).

[daviddbreadman]

NM

[turtleguy64]

Just the negative reactions I expected.Understandable,perhaps justified, but I kind of doubt that Doug Allen was hoping for me to post a favorable thread based on his explanation of the demise of Mastro and the present quagmire.I am not one of the big honcho bidders on Mastro or Legendary.I am mainly a consignor. Why would he take the time for an indepth explanation with a little fish in the pond?I don't have the time to fully lay out for all of you every part of his conversation with me.Suffice to say ,there are many factors that contributed to the mess at the end for Mastronet and the banking industry played a big part with Silk,Ltmd ,the prime owner.Bottomline ,the only way for Legendary to get some street cred would be to get every consignor his $ from the ill fated Mastro Feb. auction.It is that simple.

[birdman42]

If Legendary really BOUGHT Mastro's assets for fair value, and it wasn't a shell game, why can't Mastro use THAT money to pay consignors? :confused:

Peter,

I've wondered that myself. If Legendary bought all of Mastro's assets, that would include their accounts receivable. So nobody owes Mastro any money; it's all owed to Legendary. And Mastro either had the cash to pay out, and they should do so, or they don't have enough cash, and they're hoping some people go away that they can pay the ones left.

No dog in this fight.

Bill

[slidekellyslide]

the only way for Legendary to get some street cred would be to get every consignor his $ from the ill fated Mastro Feb. auction.It is that simple.

Have you not heard? They aren't even paying consignors for their April Legendary auction. How can that be? They've assumed none of Mastro's debt.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Peter,

I've wondered that myself. If Legendary bought all of Mastro's assets, that would include their accounts receivable. So nobody owes Mastro any money; it's all owed to Legendary. And Mastro either had the cash to pay out, and they should do so, or they don't have enough cash, and they're hoping some people go away that they can pay the ones left.

No dog in this fight.

Bill

Interesting point, but apparently Legendary did not acquire that receivable, as the suit against Dave Forman was filed by Ketap (new name for Mastro), not by Legendary.

[Jim VB]

... I am not one of the big honcho bidders on Mastro or Legendary.I am mainly a consignor. Why would he take the time for an indepth explanation with a little fish in the pond?



As has been mentioned here many times before, he needs the consignors more than he needs the bidders. Those in the consignor pool have many other options. Those in the bidder pool are: a) addicted to cards and b) willing to go where ever the good lots are.

He took the time with you because he needs you more than he needs me (mainly a bidder).

The easiest way for him to keep you (and the other consignors) would be to pay up. For a variety of reasons, he can't. So he hopes for one of two outcomes from his discussion. Best case, you buy it completely and continue to wait for payment and continue to consign in the meantime. Next best case, maybe you're wary. Don't consign anything new, but sit silently and patiently while you wait for your money.

The worst case, for him, would be if you were loud, and public in your dissatisfaction with not getting your money. If you went to the media, the message boards, and/or the court system, you could make it tougher for him to get other consignments.

Some have taken that road. Some of them have been paid. You have chosen not to, so expect to wait some more.

[Boomer]

Turtleguy
I would love to hear Doug Allen's explanation of what happened at Mastro.
Thanks
Mike

[turtleguy64]

Mike,I'll try to put it for you in a nutshell as related to me by him and I sincerely hope I get it right.If I don't,then I owe someone an apology:company purchasing Mastronet ran into difficulties and had to cut loose of Mastronet as an asset,bank note came due (a very,very large one).Banks note had to be honored.Let me interject here-a very good friend with connections in Mastronet warned me not to consign anything else to them as these difficulties were coming to fruition.Next point,the Dave Forman refusal to pay the 400 thou on items he won from that Feb. auction really created pressure on Mastronet to pay it's consignors.Had he paid,every single consignor would have gotten their money and we are not even discussing any of this today.Okay,Mike,I am out of steam but that is the crux of my conversation with Doug.Believe what you will,to me it became a perfect storm and the economy being what it was in Feb. probably didn't help,especially with attempts to borrow to try and resolve all the $ problems.But that's my theory,not someone else's theory.

[Boomer]

Thank you

[turtleguy64]

Glad to help.David

[Kenny Cole]

So let me get this right: you got stiffed completely on your consignment. You have been paid nothing. If you link on Mastro's website, you get Legendary. If you read the Legendary puffery, it is almost identical to that of Mastro, with a name change. Most of the high-ups in Mastro (perhaps principals, perhaps not) are now at Legendary. However, all is good because you now have now received an explanation about why you have been screwed and are OK with that? Wow.

Do you have any expensive cards you can consign with me?

[Sean_C]

The only consignors that should not have been paid should have been the ones who were unfortunately involved with the contended lots with Forman, or other non-paying bidders. End of story. Anything else is a pathetic attempt to excuse poor business practices.

You ship consignors items before getting paid for them? Then you are responsible for them. If you can't get the items back, you pay the consignors their $, and pursue your legal options against the person (has Forman been served yet, or has that dog and pony show continued?).

You borrow too much $ and have problems paying the bank back? Then you suck as an executive and should be replaced.

Your backers have $ problems? Then why the hell would you allow them to be involved in your new enterprise?



Mike,I'll try to put it for you in a nutshell as related to me by him and I sincerely hope I get it right.If I don't,then I owe someone an apology:company purchasing Mastronet ran into difficulties and had to cut loose of Mastronet as an asset,bank note came due (a very,very large one).Banks note had to be honored.Let me interject here-a very good friend with connections in Mastronet warned me not to consign anything else to them as these difficulties were coming to fruition.Next point,the Dave Forman refusal to pay the 400 thou on items he won from that Feb. auction really created pressure on Mastronet to pay it's consignors.Had he paid,every single consignor would have gotten their money and we are not even discussing any of this today.Okay,Mike,I am out of steam but that is the crux of my conversation with Doug.Believe what you will,to me it became a perfect storm and the economy being what it was in Feb. probably didn't help,especially with attempts to borrow to try and resolve all the $ problems.But that's my theory,not someone else's theory.

[Jim VB]

...(has Forman been served yet, or has that dog and pony show continued?).

Good question!!! I don't know the answer, but think of it this way, once Forman has been served, the plaintiff is open to discovery motions and depositions. Do you think they really want that, or do they hope bad publicity would force payment?

[jmk59]

I think I got it. They used proceeds from the sale of consigned goods to pay their other obligations instead of the consignor while also sending out consigned goods without payment. I don't understand how this explanation somehow makes it all okay.

And I don't know Doug at all, but it seems highly and obviously manipulative on his part to give someone the talking point (that predictably ended up being posted here) that this is really all about Dave Forman. Too obvious, and it looks like a very very clumsy attempt to deflect attention that is properly directed at Mastro for mishandling the cards.

J

[Peter_Spaeth]

So let me get this right: you got stiffed completely on your consignment. You have been paid nothing. If you link on Mastro's website, you get Legendary. If you read the Legendary puffery, it is almost identical to that of Mastro, with a name change. Most of the high-ups in Mastro (perhaps principals, perhaps not) are now at Legendary. However, all is good because you now have now received an explanation about why you have been screwed and are OK with that? Wow.

Do you have any expensive cards you can consign with me?

Kenny, all that is of secondary importance because Doug is a great guy. And to your factual recitation, you can add that according to the Illinois Secretary of State Doug is still president of Mastro, and that Silk Road's website describing its portfolio companies simply changed Mastro to Legendary keeping the exact description.

[botn]

Gee if all unpaid consignors are as...understanding as turtleguy64, Doug, despite not being responsible for those unpaid consignors because they are Mastro's burden, should sleep better at night.

Doug certainly seems to be the spokesperson for Mastro, at the very least, based on the way this article was written.

From the NY Daily News blog linked in the first post.

Allen said he no longer has any responsibilities at Mastro, which shut down because of financial problems. The first priority, he said, was to pay back money it owed to the bank. After that, Mastro intended to pay Dodaro and all other consignors, he said.

"They're not filing bankruptcy. They're not insolvent," Allen said. "They just have liquidity issues."

He said he remains in contact with the folks at Mastro, but Legendary Auctions is not responsible for Mastro's debts. Legendary, he said, is a completely separate entity.

"It's not a shell game where we said, 'Let's close this company and start a new one,' " Allen said. "It's not that."

[Peter_Spaeth]

"Allen said he no longer has any responsibilities at Mastro"

Other than being President?:confused:

[botn]

"Allen said he no longer has any responsibilities at Mastro"

Other than being President?:confused:

Yeah but it looks so darn good on a resume.

[turtleguy64]

For those of you still following my misadventures with Mastro/Legendary and being an unpaid consignor,it's been 6 days since I spoke with Doug and after the payment promise ,still no dough.Have I been duped into believing in the Tooth Fairy?Don't know but I 'll keep looking under my pillow.

[Leon]

For those of you still following my misadventures with Mastro/Legendary and being an unpaid consignor,it's been 6 days since I spoke with Doug and after the payment promise ,still no dough.Have I been duped into believing in the Tooth Fairy?Don't know but I 'll keep looking under my pillow.

Did he give you a timeframe on being paid?

[turtleguy64]

No,Leon,but I still look on the bright side after my talk with Doug.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I bet Bob Gibson will get paid on time.

[Anthony S.]

No,Leon,but I still look on the bright side after my talk with Doug.

Don't know why I immediately thought of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ

[vintagechris]

I bet Bob Gibson will get paid on time.

You can count on it!

[Jim VB]

I bet Bob Gibson will get paid on time.


If he doesn't. smart money says Gibbie drills Doug in the ribs.


:)

[Peter_Spaeth]

If he doesn't. smart money says Gibbie drills Doug in the ribs.


:)

Gee Bob (gasp) why did you do that, I am a great guy!!

[slantycouch]

I've stayed out of this conversation, but (as I'm sure many of you did) receive an e-mail last night informing me that "Legendaey" (sic) Auctions Extends Bidding".

For some reason the lack of proofreading made me chuckle.

[Matt]

I've stayed out of this conversation, but (as I'm sure many of you did) receive an e-mail last night informing me that "Legendaey" (sic) Auctions Extends Bidding".

For some reason the lack of proofreading made me chuckle.

They must be incredibly short-handed - aside from all the spelling errors, they are making some really bad mistakes with the listings as well. e.g. They had a lot last night with 7 assorted odds and ends and one of the "odds" was an M116 McQuillan Cincinnati variation that they completely failed to identify. It should have been in its own lot and identified as the rare variation; they just missed it altogether.

[barrysloate]

I saw that lot Matt, and I in fact was the underbidder. They didn't even list the team in the description. Sounds like another unhappy consignor.

They also left out some significant information on a group of 19th century cabinet photos. Who's researching this stuff?

I never got any bid confirmations, nor outbid notices, on any of my lots last night. When I woke this morning I still hadn't received a single email.

[Mr. Mitt]

If they want to regain footing in the hobby/business, they also need to address their servers and actual auction program. Several times last night, the process of bidding took in excess of five minutes for me. That's unacceptable. I became so frustrated that I simply stopped bidding. Consigners should know there were bidders interested in paying more for their items but backed off because of technical issues.

Also, did anyone else notice that when the extended bidding period began, there were several times when the time remaining showed well over a day instead of under 30 minutes? Sloppy technology which should be upgraded immediately.

[Leon]

If they want to regain footing in the hobby/business, they also need to address their servers and actual auction program. Several times last night, the process of bidding took in excess of five minutes for me. That's unacceptable. I became so frustrated that I simply stopped bidding. Consigners should know there were bidders interested in paying more for their items but backed off because of technical issues.

Also, did anyone else notice that when the extended bidding period began, there were several times when the time remaining showed well over a day instead of under 30 minutes? Sloppy technology which should be upgraded immediately.

There are 2 days of closing to the auction. That probably accounts for the "over a day" left scenario.

I went to bid last night, again, and it literally took 10 minutes for me to get on the site...as I stared at the screen I was roaming around the board and other places waiting. I have a very high speed connection. By the time I got to the auction site, after waiting for what seemed like eternity, the auction lot I really wanted had closed. That sucked.....Someone got a great deal on the card I really wanted. It's my fault but they really need to get another squirrel running around a wheel....Their servers absolutely sucked again.....Just calling it like I see it.....

[Orioles1954]

Jerry (?)

I can't speak to their servers, but it is a two-day auction. Perhaps it showed 1+ days because you were looking at "day 2" auctions?

James

[rhettyeakley]

Matt & Barry, I saw both of the auction lots you are describing. I ended up winning the McQuillen lot, and we were hoping we would be able to pick up the Topeka cabinet at a VERY reasonable price, but alas the Topeka was obviously seen by a few of the Old Judge guys so it took off into the wee hours of the morning.

I wouldn't have even noticed the McQuillen had it not included two Zeenut cards in the lot, the lot was kinda high rather earlier this week for what it was and that is when I took a closer look at the cards wondering what I was missing, and saw the "Cincinnati" team for McQuillen.

-Rhett

[Matt]

Matt & Barry, I saw both of the auction lots you are describing. I ended up winning the McQuillen lot, and we were hoping we would be able to pick up the Topeka cabinet at a VERY reasonable price, but alas the Topeka was obviously seen by a few of the Old Judge guys so it took off into the wee hours of the morning.

I wouldn't have even noticed the McQuillen had it not included two Zeenut cards in the lot, the lot was kinda high rather earlier this week for what it was and that is when I took a closer look at the cards wondering what I was missing, and saw the "Cincinnati" team for McQuillen.

-Rhett

What are the odds? You were one of the 4 people in the chat room last night when I pointed out the McQuillan in that lot; glad you had found it on your own previously. Congrats on the pickup.

[barrysloate]

Rhett- I bid the $1200 on the McQuillen lot, sorry to have run you up.

Besides the Topeka photo, Harry Stovey was in the New Bedford cabinet. Don't you think that should have been mentioned in the description?

[rhettyeakley]

Matt, I sweated it a little bit when I saw you were talking about the McQuillen as I thought it might prompt someone else to jump into the mix, and the $1300 was my max I was going to go on the lot. I was actually in the chat room to see what people may have been chatting about, and to see if those two items were being discussed.
-Rhett

[rhettyeakley]

Barry, as soon as Rhys saw the New Bedford cabinet (which is where Stovey lived for most of his life) he immediately id'ed Stovey in the back row. Both great cabinet cards that wouldn't have been hard to identify better. Ultimately, I was really surprised about the price on the lot, but there were 2 quality photos there.
-Rhett

[Mr. Mitt]

Jerry (?)

I can't speak to their servers, but it is a two-day auction. Perhaps it showed 1+ days because you were looking at "day 2" auctions?

James


That's what I had initially thought, that I had the wrong night for the lots I was interested in, but that wasn't the case. The time remaining changed, twice that I saw, from under 30 minutes to 1+ days. It occurred on two lots I was interested in that did close last night.

[Exhibitman]

"It's not a shell game where we said, 'Let's close this company and start a new one,' " Allen said. "It's not that."

Announcer: And now, a message from Pathological Liars Anonymous:

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=1048

Hello, my name is Doug Allen, and I'm a member of Pathological Liars Anonymous. In fact.. I'm the president of the organization!

I didn't always lie. No, when I was a kid, I told the truth. But then one day, I got caught sending consigned cards to people without payment. I lied. I told everyone that it was the bank's fault. And people bought it! Yeah, that's what happened!

After that, lying was easy for me. I told the consignors that Mastro isn't filing bankruptcy. They're not insolvent. They just have liquidity issues. Yeah, that's the ticket!

I even started telling people that Legendary Auctions is not responsible for Mastro's debts. Legendary, I said, is a completely separate entity!

It was a woman that brought me out of it - Indira Gandhi! Yeah, right.. And she told me about Pathological Liars Anonymous. Oh, you'd be surprised how many famous people belong. In fact.. at one of the meetings I met my wife - Morgan Fairchild! Yes, I'm a changed man now, and all because of Pathological Liars Anonymous. Why, I - I even have my picture on the cover of Beckett magazine. Yeah. Every day! Yeah.. that's the ticket! Yeah, you betcha!

[Sean_C]

2 questions:

Has Turtleguy gotten paid yet?
Has Forman been served yet?

[Jim VB]

I bet you're going 0 for 2 on those questions.

[zork1974]

Geez, this thread is still going?

[botn]

Yeah and you just bumped it back to the top...

[turtleguy64]

Turtleguy has the patience of a turtle,or so it seems.No payment yet.Don't know about Forman getting served.

[botn]

If we are going to lambaste a company lets at least get the facts straight. I got this message from Doug this morning

"A prominant dealer bid 21k and the reserve was met and it sold as detailed on the site."

thanks......
__________________
Leon Luckey
www.luckeycards.com
www.b-lauctions.com

The above is post from another thread. Maybe if Doug calls Leon again, he can inquire.

[calvindog]

Turtle, I'm sure you just think you haven't been paid yet. Your interactions with a great guy such as Doug will prove more valuable than money over the years. Now if you're smart you'll spend that spiritual capital you've received in the upcoming Goodwin auction and let another great guy take care of you. Word of advice, however: stay away from mid-50s and 60s PSA 8 or 9 cards that are a dime a dozen -- they tend to go for 2 or 3 times previous sales in that great guy's auction.

[oldjudge]

When I was a kid (a million years ago) people used to sign albums for each other at graduation time. When you signed you sometimes wrote cute little poems. One was

Good, better, best
Never let it rest
Till good is better
And better is best



Does that also pertain to good guys becoming great guys?

[RichardSimon]

All these great guys, what a fun, pleasurable time they all give to us.
It is so gratifying to see all these great guys,,, turtle too bad you aren't a "great" guy too.

[calvindog]

In the vintage baseball cards/memorabilia the world is split up into two distinct groups:

Good Guys: those that dutifully send in their checks following completed auctions; and

Great Guys: those that happily accept those checks and still rip off the Good Guys.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Turtle, I'm sure you just think you haven't been paid yet. Your interactions with a great guy such as Doug will prove more valuable than money over the years. Now if you're smart you'll spend that spiritual capital you've received in the upcoming Goodwin auction and let another great guy take care of you. Word of advice, however: stay away from mid-50s and 60s PSA 8 or 9 cards that are a dime a dozen -- they tend to go for 2 or 3 times previous sales in that great guy's auction.

Maybe we have a perfect storm of great guys -- Scott Scissors consigning 50's and 60's 8s and 9s to Bill, who sells them for record prices.

[Jim VB]

In the vintage baseball cards/memorabilia the world is split up into two distinct groups:

Good Guys: those that dutifully send in their checks following completed auctions; and

Great Guys: those that happily accept those checks and still rip off the Good Guys.

Jeff,

Where do you put the guys who dutifully send in their cards, to be auctioned off by the great guys, and then accept the fact that the good guys have paid the great guys but the great guys aren't sharing that money? There needs to be a special place for those guys.

[turtleguy64]

Calvindog,I'm going to put on some old rerun shows of the Johnny Carson show Who (whom) Do You Trust?In this business,there aren't many you can trust.
Thanks for the reply even though I seem to remember you beating me on many ebay quality cards.

[HRBAKER]

In the vintage baseball cards/memorabilia the world is split up into two distinct groups:

Good Guys: those that dutifully send in their checks following completed auctions; and

Great Guys: those that happily accept those checks and still rip off the Good Guys.

"These are theiir stories."

[Sean_C]

Law and Order - Sports Card Investigators Unit.

[daviddbreadman]

Funny how that Doug Allen is on this board correcting facts about reserves/no reserves and who bid/didn't bid on his auctions. Guy shows up faster than a termite on wood.

But... poor Turtle is forced to sit here with his head in his shell with nothing, no comments, nothing, just ignored. Oh wait, not ignored, Doug Allen did give him a nice sob story about why he isn't being paid.

[JEFFV96MASTERS]

Post / opinion no longer available

[whitehse]

I started this thread because of a article that appeared in the Chicago Tribune a few weeks back. I read today that there is a resolution at least to the person that was mentioned in the original article. Look all the way down to the bottom of the column

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-tue-problem-updates-0901-sep01,0,7557573.column

[slantycouch]

I started this thread because of a article that appeared in the Chicago Tribune a few weeks back. I read today that there is a resolution at least to the person that was mentioned in the original article. Look all the way down to the bottom of the column

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-tue-problem-updates-0901-sep01,0,7557573.column

WOW! Glad to hear it. Didn't see that coming.

[daviddbreadman]

I wonder where this mysterious money comes from when Mastro decides it can suddenly cut people checks when they go to the press????

[Peter_Spaeth]

David maybe Legendary is continuing to make payments for their arms' length purchase of Mastro's assets.