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barrysloate
08-01-2009, 08:21 AM
I've just been told by someone who attended last night that the website is not up to date, so I've deleted my post.

chiprop
08-01-2009, 08:41 AM
I wrote this on anoher thread, but this is more appropriate... "After checking out the Legendary website, it looks like many lots were either passed on or no bid. The remaining lots looked super weak on the selling price. Fredrick Ruth under $6k, t-208 under $4k, etc. I would have bid higher on both of those lots. I think the live auction process doesn't involve the masses and was a dis-service to the consigner. Was that the worst auction in the past 10 years, or am I missing something?"

barrysloate
08-01-2009, 09:29 AM
Apparently the prices on the website are not the final ones. Someone who attended last night called me and said the were very strong indeed. For example, the website lists the George and Harry Wright CdV's selling for $13,200, but they in fact sold for three times that amount (around 39K).

calvindog
08-01-2009, 10:27 AM
Was Doug's bellyache better? Or did he avoid last night's auction on the advice of his criminal attorney?

Peter_Spaeth
08-01-2009, 11:22 AM
Was Doug's bellyache better? Or did he avoid last night's auction on the advice of his criminal attorney?

Hopefully he did not attend with a bid paddle -- reference to '07 live Mastro auction.

Misunderestimated
08-01-2009, 02:07 PM
"he avoid last night's auction on the advice of his criminal attorney? "

-- Doug's attorney is a criminal?
Sorry, I've always wanted to write that.... I'm in the business.

drc
08-01-2009, 02:25 PM
Don't worry, I've heard bad civil engineer jokes from engineers.

cfc1909
08-01-2009, 02:56 PM
I did attend the auction and have most of the final prices not including the bp

final on the George and Harry CDVs was 32,500 plus bp

Foto Ruth was 16,000 plus bp

Epps
08-01-2009, 06:05 PM
How much did the T206 Wagner sell for?

bobfreedman
08-01-2009, 06:28 PM
How much did the T206 Wagner sell for?

All the final bids (including Buyers Premium) are now posted on the Legendary site.

nyyanksghr
08-01-2009, 06:42 PM
The Wagner sold for 185,000 before the bp. I was the lucky high bidder. The 1.62 mill. Wagner purchaed by me lat ast years Live auction hasn't been a lot of fun as I can't keep it in my home. This will be displayed in my office and will be "more fun" than the other.

Kawika
08-01-2009, 07:17 PM
That's nothing. Sarno has three T206 Wagners.

Reginald Marsh
08-01-2009, 07:37 PM
The auction prices actually were quite suprising in regards to the beginning lots and the Gibson stuff, i thought it went very strong. If i would have had one more cocktail i would have bought the Turkey Red Matty in a PSA 6 holder. The Mantle gamer bat went for with the juice around 55,000.

Epps
08-02-2009, 12:36 AM
Hey thanks guys. Wow, two Wagners, that's pretty impressive, but three is out of this world!

slantycouch
08-02-2009, 04:08 PM
The Wagner sold for 185,000 before the bp. I was the lucky high bidder. The 1.62 mill. Wagner purchaed by me lat ast years Live auction hasn't been a lot of fun as I can't keep it in my home. This will be displayed in my office and will be "more fun" than the other.

Wow - congrats! I wish I could "complain" that one of my Wagners was less fun that the other. :)

BillyCox3
08-02-2009, 04:43 PM
Where the heck IS Sarno?! He's been pretty quiet for a long time!

Bicem
08-02-2009, 04:45 PM
Hey thanks guys. Wow, two Wagners, that's pretty impressive, but three is out of this world!

Sarno's Wagners are Heinie Wagner, and even then it's really just one scanned 3 times.

calvindog
08-02-2009, 05:00 PM
The Wagner sold for 185,000 before the bp. I was the lucky high bidder. The 1.62 mill. Wagner purchaed by me lat ast years Live auction hasn't been a lot of fun as I can't keep it in my home. This will be displayed in my office and will be "more fun" than the other.

Wow, that's strange -- I had heard that you got rid of your 'less fun' Wagner not long after you bought it.

Leon
08-02-2009, 06:16 PM
I wrote this on anoher thread, but this is more appropriate... "After checking out the Legendary website, it looks like many lots were either passed on or no bid. The remaining lots looked super weak on the selling price. Fredrick Ruth under $6k, t-208 under $4k, etc. I would have bid higher on both of those lots. I think the live auction process doesn't involve the masses and was a dis-service to the consigner. Was that the worst auction in the past 10 years, or am I missing something?"

Dan my good friend,
So you had to be wrong in 2 threads instead of 1? One more thread and we might have a new record....:eek::eek:

nyyanksghr
08-02-2009, 08:12 PM
Calvindog- I heard that rumor too. I heard I sold it for less than a mill, I heard I sold it for 2 mill., and the best, I heard I traded it for the worlds best collection of Beanie babies. None of these rumors are true.

calvindog
08-02-2009, 09:10 PM
John, you didn't answer my question. You've repeatedly suggested that you still own that Wagner. Maybe I'm a bit obtuse to have missed your answer in your last posting, but do you still possess the card?

chiprop
08-03-2009, 10:22 AM
NO Leon, the Legendary site was wrong.

Let’s think of it this way… I got the information from a site that was inaccurate. The information may have been wrong (turned out to be). I was regurgitating their wrong information. Even though the information I had was wrong, I reiterated the info correctly. I.E… I was right! I love being right…

Leon
08-03-2009, 10:27 AM
NO Leon, the Legendary site was wrong.

Let’s think of it this way… I got the information from a site that was inaccurate. The information may have been wrong (turned out to be). I was regurgitating their wrong information. Even though the information I had was wrong, I reiterated the info correctly. I.E… I was right! I love being right…

OK Dan'o.....you were right :)

Jewish-collector
08-03-2009, 09:13 PM
John,

Mazel Tov (as I say around here) for winning the Wagner. I met a guy at the show on Friday that was going to the Live auction that night. He had a gorgious T-206 near complete set, but was missing the big cards in that set. I tried to convince him to bid on the Wagner that night at the live auction, but he insisted he didn't want the Wagner that "poor" and/or "restored". :eek: I wonder if he will go after the PSA 8 one some day.

Peter_Spaeth
08-03-2009, 09:46 PM
Alan, I would guess the "restored," nothwithstanding the eye appeal, probably turns a lot of purists off.

Although I guess if it's just your spare Wagner it's OK. :D Although we didn't get an answer to Jeff's question, I don't think...

slidekellyslide
08-03-2009, 11:07 PM
I'm not sure why it's anyone's business if he sold his first Wagner.

calvindog
08-03-2009, 11:17 PM
I'm not sure why it's anyone's business if he sold his first Wagner.

Relax, Dan, I was just asking a pretty innocent question of John. I thought it was made clear by him that he still owned it and I had heard the exact opposite. I was just curious about the inconsistent things I had heard and since John seems pretty open to discussing his two Wagners in an unsolicited manner I can't imagine he'd suddenly find it offensive for me to ask about one of them. Of course, if John finds my question too prying or personal all he has to do is tell me so.

slidekellyslide
08-03-2009, 11:32 PM
I am relaxed...it seemed clear to me that he still owns it since he said he can't keep it in his house.

slantycouch
08-04-2009, 07:26 AM
I am relaxed...it seemed clear to me that he still owns it since he said he can't keep it in his house.

And then stated that none of the rumors of the sales mentioned were true. Seemed to me it was clear he still owned it.

calvindog
08-04-2009, 11:11 PM
John, perhaps the reason you can't keep that Wagner in your home is because it's in someone else's home? :)

On top of Mike O'Keeffe's favorite newspaper no less!

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5489/12228857306_b8eb4791b0_z.jpg (http://flic.kr/p/jCC6em)

Reginald Marsh
08-04-2009, 11:16 PM
Now that's funny.

Peter_Spaeth
08-04-2009, 11:16 PM
And then stated that none of the rumors of the sales mentioned were true. Seemed to me it was clear he still owned it.

So much for clarity, it appears. Obviously Jeff had a reason for asking the question.

Jay Wolt
08-04-2009, 11:18 PM
Jeff that's quite the expensive bookmark you have

Jim VB
08-04-2009, 11:21 PM
So much for clarity, it appears. Obviously Jeff had a reason for asking the question.

Peter,

Aren't you lawyers trained to never ask a question you don't know the answer to?

Peter_Spaeth
08-04-2009, 11:29 PM
Peter,

Aren't you lawyers trained to never ask a question you don't know the answer to?

Well of course it depends on the context but that's certainly what I was thinking when I read Jeff's question the other night.

Matt
08-04-2009, 11:30 PM
Nice Photoshop work Jeff.

calvindog
08-04-2009, 11:35 PM
Matt, you got me! I can't scan a card but I am the King of Photoshop. :)

And Jay, neither the bookmark nor the newspaper are mine. I don't even read the Daily News anymore -- rumor is that one of its writers hates miscut Wagners!

jmk59
08-04-2009, 11:39 PM
Oh for good gosh sakes. I fell for it hook, line and sinker (or, as my little sister once mistakenly said, "sink, line and hooker"). Gah! And here I was all excited for you.

J

calvindog
08-04-2009, 11:47 PM
Joann -- I don't own the card. But the picture is real and it was taken today.

V117collector
08-04-2009, 11:49 PM
Who needs fans that don't cheer:confused:

Anthony S.
08-04-2009, 11:54 PM
Isn't the kidnap-ee supposed to be holding the newspaper with date clearly visible for the camera? Honus is just sprawled out on top of it like he owns the place. Where's the fear? He seems borderline smug.

Matt
08-04-2009, 11:56 PM
I was just pulling Jeff's leg; we all know his secretary doesn't know how to use Photoshop.

Anthony - do you want him to cut off a corner and send it to you as "proof of card?"

slidekellyslide
08-05-2009, 12:17 AM
That's as close as the Daily News will ever come to greatness. :D

Now why would a nationally recognized dealer come on this forum and tell such a baldfaced lie?

slantycouch
08-05-2009, 07:52 AM
So much for clarity, it appears. Obviously Jeff had a reason for asking the question.

Me = foot + mouth

Peter_Spaeth
08-05-2009, 08:26 AM
Me = foot + mouth

No not at all it is natural to take people at their word. Apparently he didn't realize that someone knew otherwise. As for the motive to dissemble, who knows?

oldjudge
08-05-2009, 09:24 AM
Jeff--Who owns that Wagner now?

Jim VB
08-05-2009, 09:25 AM
I was just pulling Jeff's leg; we all know his secretary doesn't know how to use Photoshop.


Columbia now offers an undergraduate course called Photoshop Utilities 101.

nyyanksghr
08-05-2009, 09:35 AM
Too funny! I assumed everyone was aware that I had sold the PSA 5 Wagner. Sorry for not posting sooner and causing the confusion. I've openly discussed the sale with Doug Allen, JP, Frank Ceresi, Scott Goodman, and many others. No secret there. Going back and reading the posts, I can see where the conspiracy theories got started! Jeff said : "I had heard that you got rid of your 'less fun' Wagner not long after you bought it."
That was the big rumor the morning after I purchased the card. The story was that I sold the card the following day for a quick 100,000 profit. That is the rumor I assumed Jeff was speaking of. The rumors over the last year were strange and amusing, and not true. I should have been clearer when I answered Jeff by stating: Yes, I sold the card but not right after I bought it" The best rumor was that I traded it for a warehouse full of unopened Beanie Babie cases. To me, it was amazing that these wild stories with no basis for truth were being told as fact. The real story is plain boring. Doug Allen had all along let me know when and if I ever want to sell the card, the underbidder wanted it. I recently purchassed the photo archives of The Detrot News, SPORT magazine, and The Detroit Free Press...2.4 million total photos. The sale of the Wagner and other items in my collection partially financed those deals.
I couldn't keep the card in my house without upgarding our security system. It stayed in my bank drawer, which was where the "less fun Wagner" comment came. I will say, Honus knows how o throw a party. I drug him out of the bank to show him off at a party my wife threw for me in February. I'll post some pics later of the night. You'll get a kick out of the looks on peoples faces when they held it. Honus was the hit of the party! Sorry for not posting sooner and causing confusion. I usually log on NET54 just once every week or two(shame on me)

Matt
08-05-2009, 10:04 AM
The Wagner sold for 185,000 before the bp. I was the lucky high bidder. The 1.62 mill. Wagner purchaed by me lat ast years Live auction hasn't been a lot of fun as I can't keep it in my home. This will be displayed in my office and will be "more fun" than the other.

So you meant to write:
"The 1.62 mill. Wagner purchased by me at last year's live auction hasn't been wasn't a lot of fun as I can't couldn't keep it in my home. This will be displayed in my office and will be "more fun" than the other one was."

You can see how people might get the impression you were saying you still have the card...

calvindog
08-05-2009, 10:13 AM
John, you're right -- that's too funny. Hilarious even. I don't know why anyone could have been confused or misled, especially when a) you spoke about owning the card in the present tense and b) a number of board members congratulated you on owning two Wagners and although you posted subsequently you did not correct them. Also, the question of whether you owned two Wagners sat for 2 1/2 days...yet once the picture popped up you managed to find your way to Net 54. A real knee slapper!

By the way, in your last post you did not mention what a great guy Doug Allen is; you may want to edit your post and add that.

Peter_Spaeth
08-05-2009, 10:16 AM
Calvindog- I heard that rumor too. I heard I sold it for less than a mill, I heard I sold it for 2 mill., and the best, I heard I traded it for the worlds best collection of Beanie babies. None of these rumors are true.

Matt, not to mention this post, which clearly everyone should have interpreted as a statement that he had sold the card. I mean it's so damn obvious. In the immortal words of Joe South

Oh the games people play, now
Every night and every day, now
Never meaning what they say, now
Never saying what they mean

Peter_Spaeth
08-05-2009, 10:23 AM
That's a lot of photos! If you looked through 1000 a day it would take you the next 7 years, by my calculations. Enjoy!!

nyyanksghr
08-05-2009, 12:07 PM
Jeff- You are a funny guy! I don't know any of the major players/auction houses that weren't aware of the transaction. It was discussed a dozen or more times at last weeks National by people stopping by our booths. Everyone knew it was sold to finance the Detroit purchases. Before the sale, we explored opportunities with many auction houses...again, no secret...this news was and has been out there. Doug Allen was the one who got the deal done...great guy, by the way. If it makes you feel better about yourself, I'll admit that you uncovered my deep, buried secret that I sold the Wagner...the same deep, buried secret that everyone in the hobby knew. And if it makes you feel better about yourself, it was those darn photos you posted that got me back to Ne54 21/2 days later, not the fact that I check the board only once a week because between raising three kids, keeping a wife happy, and working 60 hours a week...time doesn't allow it.

slidekellyslide
08-05-2009, 12:18 PM
Jeff- You are a funny guy! I don't know any of the major players/auction houses that weren't aware of the transaction. It was discussed a dozen or more times at last weeks National by people stopping by our booths. Everyone knew it was sold to finance the Detroit purchases. Before the sale, we explored opportunities with many auction houses...again, no secret...this news was and has been out there. Doug Allen was the one who got the deal done...great guy, by the way. If it makes you feel better about yourself, I'll admit that you uncovered my deep, buried secret that I sold the Wagner...the same deep, buried secret that everyone in the hobby knew. And if it makes you feel better about yourself, it was those darn photos you posted that got me back to Ne54 21/2 days later, not the fact that I check the board only once a week because between raising three kids, keeping a wife happy, and working 60 hours a week...time doesn't allow it.

That's all fine and dandy, but you knowingly gave the impression to this board that you owned two Wagner's.

calvindog
08-05-2009, 12:28 PM
John, dissemble all you want but the bottom line is that despite everyone in the hobby knowing you got rid of the Wagner, how come no one on this board knew? Maybe they're not part of the hobby. But I do have to say that your explanation sure sounds a lot like Doug's when he's explaining away his latest debacle. You guys should go in business together!

nyyanksghr
08-05-2009, 12:40 PM
Jeff- I currently have two Wagners. A psa 1 and the restored example just purchased. Back in December, I had 3 during a 2 week period. I may have zero in a month, next year, I may have 3 again. I don't think anyone is concerned whether I have one, two, three, or none. Because of the nature of my business and constantly changing inventory, I hope I'm not required to officially report to you when those numbers change. Let's move on. These are baseball cards were talking about. Lets smile, be happy, and remember...its baseball cards! If I offended ANYONE that I gave the impression I have two Wagners, which we do have in inventory, please forgive me! Hopefully we only have one in inventory next week as I have a deal on my 1 working. By the way, did I mention Doug is a great guy?

Rob D.
08-05-2009, 12:46 PM
These are baseball cards were talking about. Lets smile, be happy, and remember...its baseball cards!

Excellent point. Just baseball cards. Little pieces of cardboard, for God's sake.

It's not like baseball cards are important enough to spark an FBI investigation, or something along those lines.

calvindog
08-05-2009, 12:55 PM
John, you don't have to report to me about anything. All anyone expects is for you to not lie on this board. And since you're a card investor and not a dealer I'm sure your credibility here is not much of a concern to anyone who might otherwise feel uncomfortable.

And the more you talk about Doug, the more one question keeps coming to mind: do you and Doug have a business relationship beyond what you've described in this thread?

nyyanksghr
08-05-2009, 01:02 PM
Doug is a great guy. Rob Lifsons a great guy, contrary to what Josh Evans reported at the dinner, Josh is a great guy too, and I have business relationships with them all.

Peter_Spaeth
08-05-2009, 03:14 PM
Dang that pesky FBI, going after good guys.

bijoem
08-05-2009, 03:47 PM
Jeff,

Were you considering picking up that Wagner for a future trade with me?

I think it would have been wise.


Reading through this thread....
I especially like this post....

"Calvindog- I heard that rumor too. I heard I sold it for less than a mill, I heard I sold it for 2 mill., and the best, I heard I traded it for the worlds best collection of Beanie babies. None of these rumors are true."

A whole bunch of alternate rumors were stated and denied.....
yet the real question of still owning the wagner was not addressed.



Ah.... what a great card that Wagner is.
One day. one day.

calvindog
08-05-2009, 03:50 PM
Dang that pesky FBI, going after good guys.

I know, I know. So many good guys in this hobby, goodness just abounds. Even the guys who claim that other good guys are actually bad guys -- they're good too.

But it's just so unfair that so many good guys are being looked at by the feds. But look at the bright side: at least the FBI doesn't go after people who dodge straightforward questions on chat boards.

Jim VB
08-05-2009, 05:46 PM
For the record, Jeff, I am now the proud owner of three (Yes, that's 3) Wagners!

Picked one up from the Memory Booth each day I was there, (Wed., Thurs., AND Fri.)

Can't have too many mouse pads.

turtleguy64
08-05-2009, 07:01 PM
It was oh so simple in the old days:good guys wore white hats,bad guys wore black.I am one of those Mastronet consignors never paid from the Feb. '09 auction and I don't know who to believe anymore.Doug Allen a good guy?I always thought so and had a good business relationship with him.Now?No reply to emails.

Matt
08-05-2009, 07:10 PM
It was oh so simple in the old days:good guys wore white hats,bad guys wore black.I am one of those Mastronet consignors never paid from the Feb. '09 auction and I don't know who to believe anymore.Doug Allen a good guy?I always thought so and had a good business relationship with him.Now?No reply to emails.


Where have you been? Numerous appeals have been made on the forum to contact Leon to facilitate payment and I believe in all cases our members have been paid when they have done so. Obviously that a consignor would need to do that in order to get paid is absurd, but if you want to get paid, it seems to be effective.

turtleguy64
08-05-2009, 07:17 PM
Matt,
I've just become a new member on Net54.I got a tip from someone at the National that maybe I could get my $ through net54 forums.So it looks like this is correct.Thanks.We are not talking a new car purchase.But enough money owed me to pay two months in mortgage payments.

Peter_Spaeth
08-05-2009, 07:19 PM
It was oh so simple in the old days:good guys wore white hats,bad guys wore black.I am one of those Mastronet consignors never paid from the Feb. '09 auction and I don't know who to believe anymore.Doug Allen a good guy?I always thought so and had a good business relationship with him.Now?No reply to emails.

From the NY Daily News
Allen says the matter is out of his hands. The responsibility to pay consigners and other creditors belongs to Mastro Auctions, which was owned by Silk Road Equity. Silk Road has a small stake in the new auction business, Allen adds, but Legendary Auctions is a completely separate entity from Mastro Auctions. "I will share their frustrations until everybody who did business with Mastro Auctions is made whole," Allen says. "I wish we could meet those old obligations and start with a clean slate. But legally, we have done everything appropriate."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2009/07/05/2009-07-05_mastro_fine_sports_auctions_disaster.html?page= 1#ixzz0NM0FNEWK




Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2009/07/05/2009-07-05_mastro_fine_sports_auctions_disaster.html#ixzz0 NLz897U0

turtleguy64
08-05-2009, 07:55 PM
Actually,when you look at the whole picture,with the shilling accusations and Forman holding back on his payment due to that possibility of shilling,the best way out of this for all parties would be for Mastronet to forget the legal course,keep the items in question,and list them again.But we may be dealing with monster egos and damaged reputations and the parties would never agree to that.We need the wisdom of Solomon to resolve this and he's not answering letters.

Peter_Spaeth
08-05-2009, 07:56 PM
Actually,when you look at the whole picture,with the shilling accusations and Forman holding back on his payment due to that possibility of shilling,the best way out of this for all parties would be for Mastronet to forget the legal course,keep the items in question,and list them again.But we may be dealing with monster egos and damaged reputations and the parties would never agree to that.We need the wisdom of Solomon to resolve this and he's not answering letters.

What makes you think Mastro has the items in question?

turtleguy64
08-05-2009, 08:55 PM
Wasn't it part of the contract on consigning to Mastronet that all consignments stay under the auspices of that company to be sold at auction when they deem fit?Ergo ,I assume they still hold the Dave Forman bid on items.

Merv Williams
09-01-2009, 01:21 PM
I had a fair amount of cards in I believe their most recent auction. As a matter of fact it was 6 different lots. All the lots sold and I have been paid except for the grading of cards without my knowledge. Apparently Doug doesn't know P S A is also in California. In the past I used Mastronet for several years without a problem. If grading was needed it was done at their expense. Doug however on his own had a bunch of my cards graded at my expense without consulting me. He has not returned a call (2 messages) and 1 e-mail nor has his associate Mark Theo (also 2 messages) returned a call. A little over $1,000.00 was deducted from his payment to me. I had to call Legendary to find out why the deduction. I have more product now but Doug apparently doesn't want it or I would have been contacted by now. My first call to Doug was June 25th of this year. I don't plan on using Doug or Legendary in the future for these reasons. I feel that I was cheated and that is not a good feeling. Was Doug's bellyache better? Or did he avoid last night's auction on the advice of his criminal attorney?

Matt
09-01-2009, 01:24 PM
I had a fair amount of cards in I believe their most recent auction. As a matter of fact it was 6 different lots. All the lots sold and I have been paid except for the grading of cards without my knowledge. Apparently Doug doesn't know P S A is also in California. In the past I used Mastronet for several years without a problem. If grading was needed it was done at their expense. Doug however on his own had a bunch of my cards graded at my expense without consulting me. He has not returned a call (2 messages) and 1 e-mail nor has his associate Mark Theo (also 2 messages) returned a call. A little over $1,000.00 was deducted from his payment to me. I had to call Legendary to find out why the deduction. I have more product now but Doug apparently doesn't want it or I would have been contacted by now. My first call to Doug was June 25th of this year. I don't plan on using Doug or Legendary in the future for these reasons. I feel that I was cheated and that is not a good feeling.

Merv - where you not aware of the issues with consignors not being paid that had been going on at the time you consigned?

Jim VB
09-01-2009, 01:45 PM
Merv,

What did your consignment agreement say about grading fees?

Rich Klein
09-01-2009, 02:30 PM
He is a true hobby vet; and a very generous person. He has been a dealer since the 1970's and did a lot of advertising back in the old TTS.

Regards
Rich

daviddbreadman
09-01-2009, 03:09 PM
This is the second time we have heard about pretty large amounts being deducted for grading. It seems to me evidence is building on the newest way that these Mastro/Legendary guys are using to drain funds from people. Its amazing to me that these guys are your best friends when they want your business and don't return your calls the next day.