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View Full Version : PSA Honus boo boo


4815162342
07-25-2009, 09:54 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-T206-HONUS-WAGNER-Boston-Red-Sox-PSA-4_W0QQitemZ380140707654QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_SM_Sp orts_Cards?hash=item588226df46&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A1|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

bijoem
07-25-2009, 11:21 AM
seller obviously knows that this card has nothing to do with Honus.

I dislike listings like this - and am left with a negative impression of the seller.


Why not just say it is an error on the flip and sell it that way?

T's please
07-25-2009, 11:33 AM
I wonder if the cert # is for an Honus Wagner or Heinie. If the seller knows this is the "Bat on Right Shoulder" (even though it is clearly on his left) variation, then he is also aware that this is Heinie (Charles) Wagner and not Honus as he listed on his title line. He is being a little deceptive in his listing.

r/
Frank

Jay Wolt
07-25-2009, 11:41 AM
I have rec'd mislabels from PSA, SGC & GAI, all were taken care of at no charge.
Wish the seller would have done that as well, and putting a $1500 Buy It Now on a $75ish card is plain wrong.

T's please
07-25-2009, 12:26 PM
Well I will not do any business with Steeler-Man at TNT Collectibles. Having been around long enough, he is well aware of what he is doing. It's people like this, that give the hobby a bad name.

Rob D.
07-25-2009, 12:51 PM
In regard to giving the hobby a bad name, I'd place this eBay ad pretty far down on the list.

However, if I were an outsider looking in and saw a T206 common identified by one of the two leading grading companies as the most famous baseball card in existence, I might have serious questions about "the hobby."

slantycouch
07-25-2009, 12:59 PM
However, if I were an outsider looking in and saw a T206 common identified by one of the two leading grading companies as the most famous baseball card in existence, I might have serious questions about "the hobby."

I think it could certainly be confusing to an 'outsider'.

T's please
07-25-2009, 01:17 PM
In regard to giving the hobby a bad name, I'd place this eBay ad pretty far down on the list.

However, if I were an outsider looking in and saw a T206 common identified by one of the two leading grading companies as the most famous baseball card in existence, I might have serious questions about "the hobby."

The only difference between the two is one was created by accident and the other one isn't. I can overlook an accident more than I can handle someone being COMPLETELY dishonest in their listing. The seller should have returned the card to PSA for correction.

r/
Frank

Rob D.
07-25-2009, 01:26 PM
Come on, Frank. He's not being "COMPLETELY" dishonest. He doesn't try to pass it off as a Honus Wagner and he shows a clear scan of what he's selling.

Is the ad annoying? Of course. But my guess is it would take about 2 minutes searching eBay listings of baseball cards to find far, far worse.

If you have an issue with the seller and want to trash him, fine. But call it for what it is and throttle back on the hyperbole.

Edited to add: Because of the large number of collectors who dislike PSA, the seller likely would have done far better to market this as another PSA mistake (and a really embarrassing one, to boot), which has a Honus Wagner tie-in. My guess is he would have had a large number of bidders who wouldn't mind owning the card/slab as a funny conversation piece.

That's certainly the route I would have taken. (And in my opinion, the owner of the card has no obligation to return it to PSA for a correction. I place far more responsibility on PSA -- and SGC -- to make sure that laughable errors like this do not leave their shops.)

T's please
07-25-2009, 01:55 PM
Rob,

We apparently see this differently. This quote is taken directly from the sellers description: "This is an Original 1909-11 T206 Tobacco card of Honus (aka Heinie) Wagner (Bat on Right Shoulder Variation) from the Boston Red Sox." Who is being dishonest? With that, there is a seller selling a PSA 6 T-206 with a "Buy It Now" of $300.00. The seller in question in this thread has a PSA 4 with a "buy it now" of $1500.00. Although the seller has no requirement to send back to PSA, to keep this crap from making it's way through the hobby, it would probably be in the best interest.

r/
Frank

Rob D.
07-25-2009, 02:04 PM
Frank,

Take my advice: Peruse eBay listings for vintage baseball cards for a half-hour and see what you find (including utterly ridiculous Buy It Nows). I guarantee you will see a large number of fakes being passed off as originals and listings with scans so blurry you cannot tell what you are bidding on. If you think that this listing is on par with those, then you're right: We see things differently.

As far as you linking an unreasonable Buy It Now price with being dishonest, I'm not going to even try to figure that out. Truth be told, my guess is you don't like the seller, which is certainly your right, and are trying to make this into something bigger than what it is.

With that, I'm done with this topic.

Take care,

Rob

dennis
07-25-2009, 02:19 PM
psa should buy it for $1500.00! what an embaressment! even to card graders.

4815162342
07-25-2009, 03:04 PM
...and yes, the cert is for Honus:

http://www.psacard.com/Cert/14442551.html

The ad could've read like this: "If you're at 523, and think you'll never ever add that elusive Mr. Honus to your PSA registry, don't fret! Buy my card and you can pretend that you did!" :D

chaddurbin
07-25-2009, 03:16 PM
the ad is a little misleading and the seller is trying to make a big profit off some noob& psa mistake, but i think he's giving half the money to MS so it's ok...

ChiefBenderForever
07-25-2009, 08:21 PM
A good fake with a sweet caporal background slipped in would become legit in an instant, assuming that Honus had sweet cap backs,and if not could be a new discovery one of a kind. Since the cert is legit who could stop it ?

Bamacollection
07-25-2009, 08:29 PM
I'm with Frank. This guy has been around long enough to know this wrong. If the opening bid was reasonable, I would have disagreed. But, $195 for a $50 card? Either the person bidding is completely a sap or 2 wrong acts may become a third wrong act. I hope someone keeps the cert on file....

daviddbreadman
07-25-2009, 08:34 PM
NM

T's please
07-25-2009, 08:46 PM
A good fake with a sweet caporal background slipped in would become legit in an instant, assuming that Honus had sweet cap backs,and if not could be a new discovery one of a kind. Since the cert is legit who could stop it ?

I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen with this one. As Rob had pointed out earlier, with so many fakes out there, now you have a legit cert floating around. Now all you need is someone to slip in the fake Wagner and there you go.

r/
Frank

Steve D
07-25-2009, 09:32 PM
I just emailed Cosetta Robbins at PSA, letting her know about the card, and to see if they can invalidate the cert number and correct the population report.


Steve

4815162342
07-25-2009, 10:45 PM
Good. The cert needs to be updated at least.

Matt
07-25-2009, 11:12 PM
I just emailed Cosetta Robbins at PSA, letting her know about the card, and to see if they can invalidate the cert number and correct the population report.


Interesting. I think we all agree this needs to be fixed, but can they just invalidate a cert thats in someone's possession without their permission? The better solution may be to just to fix the cert in the system so that when someone checks it they see Heinie and not Honus.

FrankWakefield
07-25-2009, 11:51 PM
The seller knows that it is Heinie. It would be better if he were straightforward and listed the card as a PSA screwup.

PSA should buy the card to fix it. If I had the card in that slab I'd either keep it, as a reminder of not having blind faith in slabbing, or I'd offer it to PSA at a serious price (but less that 1.5k). PSA should jump at the chance of buying it back, but I doubt that they would. And if they didn't, then I'd try to list it on eBay a few times with a high reserve...

Stuff like this makes the hobby seem like a racket to outsiders and newcomers. And that may be a part of what it has become. That's a shame.

If someone had busted the card out of the slab, then listed that card as Honus, what then would we be saying??

Steve D
07-26-2009, 12:07 AM
Interesting. I think we all agree this needs to be fixed, but can they just invalidate a cert thats in someone's possession without their permission? The better solution may be to just to fix the cert in the system so that when someone checks it they see Heinie and not Honus.



I remember one other instance where PSA incorrectly labeled a Heinie as a Honus. If I further remember correctly, they invalidated the certification number in that case. I believe it was their way of trying to induce the owner to send the card back to them for correction of the flip.


Steve

Kawika
07-26-2009, 12:09 AM
"Stuff like this makes the hobby seem like a racket to outsiders and newcomers. And that may be a part of what it has become. That's a shame."

That about sums it up.

pwilk17
07-26-2009, 10:25 AM
Hopefully the buyer will not crack the card out of the holder (being very careful) and slip a bogus Honus into the PSA holder for the huge score/scam.

Frank A
07-26-2009, 01:59 PM
To big a deal over this listing. Anyone in the hobby knows better. Anyone who would buy this as a Honus is an idiot for not checking it out first. Written badly, yes. But give it a break as to someone getting stuck with it.

sox1903wschamp
07-26-2009, 02:18 PM
I remember one other instance where PSA incorrectly labeled a Heinie as a Honus. If I further remember correctly, they invalidated the certification number in that case. I believe it was their way of trying to induce the owner to send the card back to them for correction of the flip.


Steve


So it has happened at least twice? Nice!

uffda51
07-26-2009, 02:28 PM
http://homepage.mac.com/thurber51/.Pictures/Grading%20Mishaps/honusheiniewagnerpsa.jpg

Here is the card from the last time this happened.

We all make mistakes. Usually, we learn from them. One would think that the busiest grading service in the world would recognize the most famous card in the world.

Anthony S.
07-26-2009, 02:47 PM
Egads, the PSA 4 Honus (Heinie) Wagner ended up selling for $255.00

asoriano
07-26-2009, 10:29 PM
Egads, the PSA 4 Honus (Heinie) Wagner ended up selling for $255.00

Well, at least this "Honus" isn't trimmed. ;)

slantycouch
07-27-2009, 12:12 AM
Well, at least this "Honus" isn't trimmed. ;)

haha :D

Potomac Yank
07-29-2009, 12:06 AM
T's please & Rob D.

I refuse to believe that this sort of stuff goes on in our hobby. :D

4815162342
07-31-2009, 04:48 PM
I just emailed Cosetta Robbins at PSA, letting her know about the card, and to see if they can invalidate the cert number and correct the population report.


Steve

Steve,
Did you ever get a reply from PSA?

Steve D
07-31-2009, 06:55 PM
Steve,
Did you ever get a reply from PSA?



I got an email this past monday thanking me and saying they were trying to contact the seller to get it fixed.


Steve

4815162342
09-01-2009, 04:09 PM
Five weeks later and Honus remains!

http://www.psacard.com/Cert/14442551.html

4815162342
11-02-2009, 03:07 PM
This cert still says Honus. Unbelievable. :mad:

JasonL
11-02-2009, 03:23 PM
that if you had a raw Honus reprint, doctored and dirtied up and ready to go, you would certainly pay at least a $1500 BIN to get that slab and flip.

No?

4815162342
11-02-2009, 04:26 PM
Yep. And someone out there probably did that, and for a lot less than $1500.

4815162342
01-26-2011, 02:18 PM
I periodically check PSA's website for this cert; finally, it has been corrected!

http://www.psacard.com/Cert/14442551.html

mintacular
01-26-2011, 02:40 PM
I know this guy, he's got a b & m store in pgh. i've bought a few cards from him, he seems a little clueless about prewar. perhaps his hienie "honus" with honus reference is referring to the psa flip. perhaps he thought it was an oddball mistake that someone would pay a few hundred to have a holder saying they have at t206 "honus" wagner. at the end of the day it is the buyers fault

Fred
01-26-2011, 04:22 PM
http://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=32038&stc=1&d=1296076835

fkw
01-26-2011, 10:49 PM
Fred you beat me to it :) I was going to post a scan too :)


The Heinie Goof is still the most famous PSA mistake of ALL TIME!
It has added value IMO

Id rather have this slab, than say.... a PSA-9 common player 1960's Era Topps card that would sell for the same $$$.

This is funnier and IMO Far more of a conversation piece.

After buying the Honus, you could pick up this Plank and have the start to a great PSA slabbed T206 Set :)
http://centuryoldcards.com/images/psascrewupe95plank.jpg