How rare is rare?

[Yankeefan51]

Many of the rarest 19th century cards have not been graded. Accordingly they do not appear in the population report. VCP has relatively few examples posted from the selected series.

Our question is what is your best guess on the number of cards known for the following series and what would your best estimate be for a reasonable value for a mid-grade (say SGC 50) example


Four Base Hits (exclude Kelley for value purposes)

Just So Chewing Tobacco

Large Gypsy Queen

Kalamazoo Bat Team Cards

Kalamazoo Bat Team Cabinets


Thanks and look forward to hearing your comments



Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

[barrysloate]

Here are rough estimates:

1) Four Base Hits 12-15
2) Just So 15-20
3) Large Gypsy Queen- there are a bunch known that have had the top part die cut, and quite a few complete ones, so 20-25
4) N690 teams (small)- maybe 25, with numerous Boston and Philadelphia known, while Detroit, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh are quite rare.
5) N690 teams (large) probably rarer than FBH, maybe 6-8

These are all guesses but hopefully in the ballpark.

Edited to add I'll leave out values because they are difficult to determine.

[Yankeefan51]

Thanks Barry

We'd be interested to know if any other collectors have opinions
on value. Also wonder how many people own a Red Stockings Cigar
card?

Bruce

[ScottFandango]

would 18 SGC copies and 12 PSA copies make somehting rare?

[Leon]

would 18 SGC copies and 12 PSA copies make somehting rare?

Relative to some cards yes and relative to others no.....

[Touch'EmAll]

What issues would be near the top of the rarity department on T206 era and later? Guesses = Colgans Tin Tops, or 1931 W502's (only 4 total ever PSA graded), Also any early/mid 1920's Exhibits issues? And for you E-card enthusiasts, what candy issues super rare?

steve

[uffda51]

http://photos.imageevent.com/uffda51/20thcenturycandygumcards/Darby.JPG

I've owned this card for about 15 years. I've found no reason to get it graded

[uffda51]

FWIW, I think Barry's estimates are pretty accurate.

[yomass]

I think Barry might be a little low in his estimate for large Gypsy Queens and K-Bat team cards. The rare team cards may have 3-5 copies, but the less rare ones may have as many as 8-10 each. I imagine there are more than a few sets of those out there.

[barrysloate]

Richard- Boston and Philadelphia Athletics probably have 8-10 each, Philadelphia Phillies are a little tougher, but Detroit, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh are extremely tough. Pittsburgh is about 2 known, Baltimore maybe 3 known, and Detroit not much more than that.

So the total could be maybe 30 known.

And you may be right about the large Gypsy Queen, not sure of those.

[tbob]

E98 Old Puts have only one or two known copies of each player so I'd have to label them rare. The black and white E97s are pretty close as very few examples exist of each one. Not as rare as the Old Puts but I'd guess maybe 5or 6 of each known? Then you have the E94 overprints which are extremely tough to find.

[chaddurbin]

post factory OPs meant for some type of advertising or distribution should not be classified the same as other "rare" cards. e94s/e98s OPs are not the same as e97 b/ws or m131 newsboys. e101s with a niagara baking stamp, big yawn to me.

imo how we look at OPs 6-8 years ago is different than today.

[Leon]

post factory OPs meant for some type of advertising or distribution should not be classified the same as other "rare" cards. e94s/e98s OPs are not the same as e97 b/ws or m131 newsboys. e101s with a niagara baking stamp, big yawn to me.

imo how we look at OPs 6-8 years ago is different than today.

I absolutely disagree with Quan on this one....I think Overprints, according to recent prices, have continued to be viable and rare. They have cooled off just like many other things though. Some idiots think they are easy to duplicate. I am still waiting to see all of these fake ones that got by people...........I love overprints.....

edited to answer the original question....(my guesses)

Four Base Hits (exclude Kelley for value purposes) 20-25 known...30k for a common in vg

Just So Chewing Tobacco 18-20 known..., 16k for a common in vg

Large Gypsy Queen- 20 - 30 known,... 10-12k for a common in vg

Kalamazoo Bat Team Cards 40-50 known,... 6k-8k for a common in vg

Kalamazoo Bat Team Cabinets ? 8-10 known,.......30k-40k in vg

[barrysloate]

Leon- your guesstimates of how many rare cards survived seem a little high. 40-50 N690 team cards? There are less than 10 of Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore combined. That would make 30-40 of the two Philadelphia and Boston. Just seems like too many.

And 25 FBH? That also seems high, since nearly all except Kelly are unique. Are there that many individual players known?

[oldjudge]

Leon--I like your prices. I'll buy all common large Gypsy Queens at $10K each. My guess is that they are $25-30K each. I think the commons are scarcer than the HOFers. The most common one is Kelly.

[rman444]

Not much to add other than how I was outbid by Richard a couple years back on a Kalamazoo cab in Mile High. I was cursing up and down for a few weeks after that one!

Regarding Q's statement regarding overprints, I'd have to agree. 5-10 years down the road I also think people will view them differently. As for finding all the fake ones that got by people, if ya can't find them, then isn't that the point?

[Potomac Yank]

Whenever I see the word Rare, I automatically transpose the four letter word Hype.