19thCenturyOnly - Auction Ending Date July 15th

[19thcenturyonly]

I wanted to let everyone on Net54 know that I changed the auction ending date from Thursday, July 16th to Wednesday July 15th.

The www.19thCenturyOnly.com website has been updated with this info, but I'm posting here as well.

Thank you.
Seth

[Bicem]

smart, Goodwin ends on the 16th.

[bmarlowe1]

The item below is one of the more amusing auction house photo idents I have seen. 19thCenturyOnly is offering the cdv below left with the claim that it may be Bill Hawes.
http://www.19thcenturyonly.com/site/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=5012

They show the 1879 Bos NL team composite below right as evidence, with a big black arrow pointing at a player they claim is Bill Hawes. They then kind of leave it up to the bidder to decide if the cdv is Hawes - not a bad approach.

http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss259/bmarlowe1/item_5012_1.jpg http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss259/bmarlowe1/Item_5012_3.jpg

Well - the cdv really is Bill Hawes, but the guy the arrow is pointing to for reference in the team composite is Charlie Jones :)

The ID's they give for the headshot composite are all screwed up (they did get Harry Wright right). The correct ID's are:
John Morrill
Tommy Bond - Pop Snyder
Charlie Jones - Jack Burdock - Ed Cogswell
Sadie Houck - John O'Rourke - Ezra Sutton
Bill Hawes - Curry Foley
Harry Wright

So - Bill Hawes is just to the left of Harry Wright (and he's in the cdv being auctioned). For reference below is a wood cut of Hawes from the 10-9-1880 New York Clipper next to Hawes from the team composite:

http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss259/bmarlowe1/BillHawesNYClipper10-9-1880rs.jpg http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss259/bmarlowe1/BosNL1879NYPLrs.jpg

[bmarlowe1]

ignore double post

[19thcenturyonly]

Mark,

Thank you for the information. I updated the arrow in the auction listing. My research pointed to Bill Hawes as the player in the photo, however, I was not able to be 100% sure. Are you sure the id of the photo is Bill Hawes ?

Seth

[bmarlowe1]

Seth,

That's him. Do you have his minor league record?

[barrysloate]

Mark- Sorry to hijack the thread, but I very much enjoyed your article "Zooming in on a Great Old Photo" in the latest SABR Research Journal. It is a great piece of detective work but you need really good eyesight to be able to see those very tiny details. Everybody who is interested in photo i.d. should take a look at it.

[19thcenturyonly]

Mark,

For minor league stats I looked at baseball-reference.com/minors powered by the SABR Minor League Database. As far as I saw, there was only data provided for Bill Hawes in the Major Leagues, but not the Minor Leagues.

There was quite a bit of research done to narrow the photo down to Bill Hawes. I appreciate your confirmation that it's him.

[bmarlowe1]

Seth -
I agree that baseball-reference.com does not show a minor league record for him. I was wondering where the information on Hawes' time with Lowell came from - newspaper microfilm?

Barry -
Actually I hijacked Seth's thread :D. Thanks for the kind words on my article. Getting a hi res scan from HoF made it possibe to see the details.

BTW your Peck & Snyder advertising poster (on anotherer thread) is just awsome.

[barrysloate]

Thanks. The poster has always been a favorite of mine.

[19thcenturyonly]

Mark,

The fifth paragraph of Bill Hawes by Charlie Bevis http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&pid=5992&bid=1675 gave me the information about Bill Hawes on the Lowell team. That is a great article and form of reference.

I'm interested to know. How did you determine that it is Bill Hawes in the CdV ?

[bmarlowe1]

Seth-
Charlie's article is a great source. I'm surprised SABR has a bio on him already as his MLB time was so short.

As to the ID - for starters, while the guy in the cdv does resemble Charlie Jones (your original arrow placement) in the Boston headshot composite - the ear shapes don't match.

Next step was to check the ID's in the Boston photo, the key one being Hawes who is correctly identified in the NYPL version of the Boston photo, confirmed in the New York Clipper.

Then - IMO the cdv subjectively looks just like Hawes in the Boston photo. Every facial structure matches. Ideally we would then compare the same ear in both photos - but clearly we can't. We are forced to compare right vs. left ears, (nearly everyone's right and left ears are very similar - though there are exceptions). In this case they match so perfectly that if I was in the market - I would buy the photo. If you would like more graphic details, contact me offline.