View Full Version : SGC gets one wrong - and is working to get it right!
the-illini
06-15-2009, 08:58 PM
Disclaimer: I am not accusing the seller of this card of any wrongdoing. I have dealt with them before and found them to be quality dealers on all fronts.
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While doing a search of various Hall of Famers on ebay today, I came across the following card on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1916-D303-Mothers-Bread-Eddie-Plank-HOF-SGC-30-2_W0QQitemZ200331600911QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_SM_Sp orts_Cards?hash=item2ea4b1a40f&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
At first glance, I thought that it was just a nice card from a very scarce set. I looked a little closer though, because I used to own a copy of this card as well.
When I opened the picture on the full page, I was shocked to discover this was the very same card I once owned - what shocked me even more, however, was that the card had been given a numerical grade. It is badly trimmed, and all three grading companies have told me so.
I bought this card in the mid 90's from the notorious Alan Hager. I was pretty new to vintage collecting, and I trusted anyone with a nice inventory of cards, which he certainly had. As I began to learn more about cards, and the world of alterations, I realized that I probably had a trimmed card on my hand. If you look at the top and bottom of the card, you will clearly see the trimming.
I decided to try and submit the card for grading, just to be sure (I had a fair amount of cash in the card, and I was hoping I was wrong). All three grading companies sent it back as trimmed (this was before trimmed cards were slabbed), and I decided to sell it. The last time I saw the card was today, in the SGC 30 holder.
--I am also certain this is my card. the chipping on the back left is the same my card had, and more importantly, so is the slight wrinkle on the bottom right corner. I am very familiar with this wrinkle because I am the one who put it there, trying to put the card into a top loader.
This is not meant as a bash on SGC - I think they are the best around, but everyone gets one wrong from time to time!
illini805
06-15-2009, 10:07 PM
Nice name. Go Illini!
rdixon1208
06-15-2009, 11:24 PM
I have bought several cards from them on ebay. They are probably my favorite ebay seller actually. This really sucks.
Chris,
What really blows is that in time you probably could have kept submitting the card or had someone else do it and it could have come back graded. If not by SGC then by PSA, it just happens. As most of us realize, the "art" of grading isn't close to being exact. It's subjective and on any given day a trimmed card just might pass.
The part that really sucks is that I bet you could have realized a nice and tidy profit had the card just made it into a holder with a numerical grade.
SGC did this just to see what it felt like to be wrong for once. :)
Rich Klein
06-16-2009, 04:50 AM
And considering his feedback is nearly 35K when I looked last nite -- I would not be the one to say -- anything bad about the dealer either. I somehow don't think we are looking at a Dr. Koos situation.
I would contact the dealer and SGC and see what can be done. I suspect this process will go very well
Rich
spacktrack
06-16-2009, 07:31 AM
I will be reaching out to the seller this morning and we will take another look at this card. As many will attest, if there ever is an issue with one of our cards, we're very proactive about handling it and always come to some resolution if the situation warrants.
Thank you,
Brian Dwyer
SGC
1-800-742-9212 x114
the-illini
06-16-2009, 08:06 AM
Thanks Brian - this is why SGC is the best in the hobby.
I also would like to reiterate that the dealer in this case has always been top-notch in my experiences and above reproach.
Thanks
Chris
Al C.risafulli
06-16-2009, 08:12 AM
The seller is a personal friend of mine, and if I were to make a list of people in the hobby with the most integrity, he would be right at the top.
Beyond being a friend, I've been buying from him for years and have never had a single issue. They simply don't come any better.
-Al
barrysloate
06-16-2009, 08:22 AM
I know Joe also, and he's top notch. This matter will get resolved.
Jay Wolt
06-16-2009, 08:32 AM
I too can vouch for Joe's integrity.
Been buying & selling to him for years, never an issue.
bijoem
06-16-2009, 08:38 AM
The seller is a personal friend of mine,....
-Al
Although this seller is a personal friend of Al's, I wouldn't hold that against him :D
I wouldn't hold this instance against him either.
Add me to the list of people who would consider him a really good seller / one who can be trusted.
dstudeba
06-16-2009, 09:21 AM
Not to pile on here, but the seller is top notch. I have bought and sold with him many times usually without needing any negotiation. One of the easiest people to deal with.
Kevin Savage
06-16-2009, 09:42 AM
I too will vouch for Joe. I have known him for 15+ years- and have had tons of good and fair transactions- both in person and on the web. There are so many scenarios that could have occurred to bring that card into that holder and end up on ebay. Joe could have bought the card already graded and didn't think twice about listing it- as SGC has such a sterling reputation. I am sure the poster is positive that this is the same card he had- but it is also possible that this card is just very similiar in appearance to the card which had been previously rejected by grading companies. I am sure Joe and SGC will work to get it worked out.
the-illini
06-16-2009, 10:02 AM
Kevin - agree 100% about both Joe and SGC. As I have stated, my post was not meant to suggest that they were involved in any wrongdoing. If that is what can be inferred from it, I apologize.
I would agree with you about it possibly being a similar card if it were a T206, but there aren't too many Mothers Bread Plank's out there. I can literally picture the moment I tried to slide the card into a top loader and put that little fold in the bottom right corner. If there are two Mother's bread Plank's out there like that, I will eat my hat. :)
Either way - I am sure it will be resolved one way or another, and I look forward to buying from this dealer and using SGC's services in the future.
-Chris
egbeachley
06-16-2009, 10:23 AM
Better to buy it back at the seller's cost basis (assumed to be lower than what it is listing for) than to have it sell again and raise the basis.
I bought several T206 HOFers from Joe and got excellent service with each transaction. :)
I will just add to the chorus that Joe is the best. I am sure this will be resolved properly.
JimB
Rob D.
06-16-2009, 01:45 PM
Twenty years ago Joe sold me a 1986 Topps baseball wax box in which one of the packs was sealed off-center. He offered to refund my money and shipping costs but refused to add 25 percent for my heartache!
Just figured someone had to break the trend. Actually, I've found Joe to be one of the best eBay sellers to deal with. Every transaction with him has been top-notch.
vintagewhitesox
06-16-2009, 03:01 PM
I will just add to the chorus that Joe is the best. I am sure this will be resolved properly.
JimB
Nothing to add except to echo what everyone else has been saying about Joe. One of the most trustworthy dealers and more importantly, people, in the hobby.
Josh
the-illini
06-16-2009, 03:53 PM
Well if nothing else we have established that Joe is a good guy... :)
Brian Weisner
06-16-2009, 05:09 PM
Hi Chris,
Most of us already know that Joe is a great guy, as well as a quality seller.
We also know that SGC does a fantastic job of reviewing anything that they have graded.... So I guess my question is.... Why go public on the board when this could have been solved offline? I routinely email SGC, Leon, sellers, auction houses, etc about questionable items before posting anything in public, as I do not wish to call anyone out without 100% proof...
Personally, I don't think you handled this one very well, as you have no proof that the card in question used to belong to you. Sure, Mother's bread Plank's don't grow on tree's, but even I've seen more than 4-5 over the last 15 years....
Be well Brian :)
PS I'm not trying to slam Chris.... I'm only asking everyone to have a bit more evidence before they slam anyone in public.
Peter_Spaeth
06-16-2009, 05:42 PM
It seems to me Chris' very precise recollection of the card was sufficient evidence to make public his concerns that SGC might have made a mistake.
three25hits
06-16-2009, 06:02 PM
I don't see how this card is obviously trimmed. If it is, could someone educate me on how to tell?
As for evidence, maybe a scan of the card in raw state would be nice. Or the rejection slips? I have no reason to believe or not believe Chris otherwise.
http://joesvintagesportscards.com/Merchant2/graphics/Graded_Pics/G1_1242024-002.jpg
GoSoxBoSox
06-16-2009, 07:37 PM
It's a beautiful card and I'm sure there must be more than one with similar identify features. I trust Joe as much as I trust anyone in this hobby. If Joe tells you something about his card you can believe him. His integrity and reputation in this hobby mean everything to him.
philliesphan
06-16-2009, 08:02 PM
It's a beautiful card and I'm sure there must be more than one with similar identify features. I trust Joe as much as I trust anyone in this hobby. If Joe tells you something about his card you can believe him. His integrity and reputation in this hobby mean everything to him.
Here here! I have had numerous dealings with Joe over the years. He is honest as they come, always displays integrity, and has schooled me a lot on some of the inner workings of some of the pre-war cards that I've added to my collection.
srs1a
06-16-2009, 08:06 PM
From the scan, I surely do not see a badly trimmed card as described in the intial post-- perhaps I am blind. I'll join in the chorus that Joe is as good as they come.
the-illini
06-16-2009, 08:16 PM
Brian,
Who have I "slammed"??? certainly not the seller, who I stated in the first sentence of my very first post is, in my experience, a quality person to deal with?
Did I "slam" SGC in the same post when I said I think they are the best around?
Did I "slam" either SGC or Joe when I reiterated my feelings regarding their professionalism in handling this matter and in any other dealings in subsequent posts?
All I did was tell a story about a card (a very scarce card) that I believe with almost 100% certainty was once mine, and was graded as trimmed by three separate graders. I dont stand to profit in any way from this card being regraded an "A" any more than you do.
I don't care if anyone believes me or not at this point, but really, why in the hell would I make this up? I have been a member of this board since Elliot ran it years ago and before it was even on N54, and I doubt that anyone would categorize me as an attention seeker.
Perhaps I should have just contacted the seller or SGC directly to begin with. Fine, I can accept that, and I apologize if I have created much ado about nothing. However, my only motive was to let people know that there is a high-priced item for sale that may not be what it seems to be.
Peter_Spaeth
06-16-2009, 08:22 PM
Chris never suggested that Joe had done anything wrong, so the "defense" of him (although he deserves all the kudos) is beside the point. The only question raised is whether SGC perhaps mistakenly slabbed a trimmed card.
Bicem
06-16-2009, 08:26 PM
Chris never suggested that Joe had done anything wrong, so the "defense" of him (although he deserves all the kudos) is beside the point. The only question raised is whether SGC perhaps mistakenly slabbed a trimmed card.
agreed. we all know Joe is a good guy, not the point of Chris' thread.
three25hits
06-16-2009, 08:31 PM
Chris never suggested that Joe had done anything wrong, so the "defense" of him (although he deserves all the kudos) is beside the point. The only question raised is whether SGC perhaps mistakenly slabbed a trimmed card.
Or did SGC mistakenly reject a card as trimmed that wasn't? I have heard many stories of a card with clear provenance that is rejected once or more eventually getting slabbed.
Another question -- is it even the same card? As mentioned earlier, I'd love to see a scan of the card raw...
At least its an SGC slab, and they can be trusted to do the right thing in standing behind their service.
Bicem
06-16-2009, 09:00 PM
Or did SGC mistakenly reject a card as trimmed that wasn't? I have heard many stories of a card with clear provenance that is rejected once or more eventually getting slabbed.
Definitely possible, but odd that two other grading companies did too.
Sure, a scan of the card raw would be great, but Chris doesn't have one, I know I don't keep all my old card scans either.
I'm also confident that SGC will make it right.
Much to do about not a whole lot here, imho. It seems Joe has the reputation most can only hope for. I think I even know Joe from the Nationals too or have at least done deals with him. At any rate Chris has been on the board a long time and I will vouch for him any day of the week. I feel this is an honest mistake....just not sure where the mistake is. :o