T206 Museum is back up!

[danmckee]

The gossple in T206 collecting is back in business folks. If it states it there, then you know it is the truth!

[bijoem]

a couple of snippets from the site:

"Why Should I Choose T206 Certification Service?

We understand there are many companies provide authenticity services. However, none of them have expertise or full understanding on T206 printing process. For those companies that grade unusual T206s, in most cases, they do not identify the errors/variations on the label. Using our T206 Certification Service, our team will issue COA identify and explain the error/variation and guaranteed the authenticity of your card."



"Collector Beware:

T206 Old Mill SL with Black overprint bar(s) back simply do NOT exist. They were created by T206museum.com. All created specimens were destoryed, if you encounter any of such backs please be alerted. Authentic T206 Old Mill SL overprint back only come with red bar(s) and in brown Old Mill SL back.

T206museum.com apologizes for any inconvenience this may cause."



huh? :confused::confused::confused:

[danmckee]

I think this site should be kept down. It is just going to hook some poor fish in the future when this all blows over and he comes up with some new scam like the bogus packs. Amazing!

[Anthony S.]

Wow.

Cajones Maximus.

[three25hits]

did they move to the quad cities?

[Potomac Yank]

I think this site should be kept down. It is just going to hook some poor fish in the future when this all blows over and he comes up with some new scam like the bogus packs. Amazing!

You spot 'em.

You snag 'em.

You Stomp 'em.

Cut off the head of a snake, and the snake will die.
Otherwise they'll think that you want them as a pet, and they'll slither around.

[brianp-beme]

A word to the wary, and I qoute:


All created specimens were destoryed,



These cards were not destroyed, but only had their story removed. My experience is that a card can still get along perfectly in society without a story.


Brian

[cfc1909]

Black bar Old Mill do not exist- HOW ABOUT


T206 MUSEUM IS A FRAUD. PAT CHAN IS A SCAMMER. PAT CHAN CREATED BLACK BAR OLD MILLS AND THE T206 MUSEUM TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF NEW COLLECTORS.

PAT YOU PUSH TOO FAR. :mad: Pat you make it sound like the Museum is warning collectors about these and at the same time you are working on still scamming collectors.

I will figure out a way to send out a weekly reminder that

T206 MUSEUM IS A FRAUD!

PAT CHAN IS A SCAMMER!

PAT CHAN MADE THE BLACK BAR OLD MILL TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF EVERY COLLECTOR HE CAN.

-even if I have to pay for advertisement in all sport publications.

[cfc1909]

Pat if you were truly sorry, you would not have came back on 54 as Bond73 and try to feed us all that bullsh** @ Piedmont packs and does this guy have a printing factory in his basement.

PAT YOU ARE NO GOOD and the MUSEUM IS TOO GOOD TO YOU TO BE DOWN. There are too many perks that come with the Museum.

Print your name on the museum and tell everybdy that you are a scammer and made the museum to benifit on your scams.

A month ago you would have sold the black bar Old Mill for 35k and now you are trying to benifit by telling collectors they do not exist.


BAD THINGS HAPPEN TO BAD PEOPLE. IT IS CALLED KARMA. It also happens to good people but you would not know about that.

Le- sorry about the negative-it will stop here no more but I will continue to let all collectors know Pat Chan made the bar Old Mills and the Museum to scam collectors

[bond73]

Jim,

I have full documentations of where I obtained my Piedmont packs and I did pulled a t206 from one of the 12 counts Piedmont packs period. I have never altered or tampered with any tobacco packs. I know Jon Canfield said it is "impossible" to pull cards from those 12 counts Piedmont packs but I did pull a t206 from it and that's the fact. The same type of pack also pulled a t206 in the Robert Edward Auction so I do believe some of those Piedmont packs have t206s in them. I have no guts to open my other pack to prove it that's why I am willing to offer full refund to the next brave owner who decides to open it if there's no card in it. As I mentioned before, I am willing to take lie detector and fingerprint test on this matter.

I admitted I made a mistake on making those Old Mill black bar backs but I have never made anything else. I keep my site up just to educate collectors on t206s if anyone found any information that's incorrect or misleading I am more than happy to correct it.

Pat Chan

[bond73]

Double post

[cfc1909]

what about -does he have a printing factory in his basement :mad:

[cfc1909]

years ago -i lost a brown lenox latham in a psa 2 holder to tfever on ebay and i always wanted to meet him and compare collections and notes on
t206s. I am so disappointed-words can't explain.

[bond73]

Jim,

"years ago -i lost a brown lenox latham in a psa 2 holder to tfever on ebay and i always wanted to meet him and compare collections and notes on
t206s. I am so disappointed-words can't explain."

I am not sure what you are referring to? You mean you lost in that ebay auction as a underbidder? If that's the case then I don't know what I did wrong. I have never stole any cards from anyone. Jim, fFeel free to email me to square this out.

[calvindog]

Pat, you didn't make a mistake -- you committed a crime. That's why you had an FBI agent at your door: to confront you about your crime. And you never would have made any restitution on your crime if not for an FBI agent scaring you so badly that you needed to change your underwear twice during the conversation with him.

[Potomac Yank]

There's only one thing that the Dr Koos, and Pat Chan's of the world understand ... and only pointing them out ... doesn't cut it.

The day that the investors, and collectors band together against these punks, that's the day when these punks will take us serious.

What amazes me, with all the legal minds around, the lice is still with us since 1991, when I last dealt with it.

Jim, once you spot them, ... you make them serve time with a butt mate.

[rdwyer]

Pat Chan AKA Pat Scam:

The only mention of a T206 card being pulled from a 12 count was from your site. I don't remember a card being pulled from REA, maybe Jon can chime in here. But I don't think so. If I remember, REA took it out of the auction because of concerns that it didn't contain a card.

Also, the Drum pouch has tobacco and nothing but! You're a fraud, and should be banned from here.

[three25hits]

T206MUSEUM-CROOKS.COM is available!

T206MUSEUM-LIES.COM is available!

T206MUSEUM-WE-BE-FRAUDS.COM is available!

[martyogelvie]

I think that posts like this and other vintage card message boards will be just as effective to warn new T206 collectors about the Museum as a counter site would. When you search Google for T206 or T206 museum, eventually this thread will come up in the search results hopefully educating new collectors as would a counter site like www.t206museum-fraud.com

[cfc1909]

"I am not sure what you are referring to? You mean you lost in that ebay auction as a underbidder? If that's the case then I don't know what I did wrong. I have never stole any cards from anyone. Jim, fFeel free to email me to square this out. "

I don't believe that you don't get it. " I don't know what I did wrong"

what about making a backs list on your site with your creations at the top of the list. That is what you did wrong. Trading/selling the Hart bar Old Mill for t206 cards that can't be replaced.
Consigning the Revelle to REA. That is what you did wrong.
Your site is all about what you can gain from collectors. You are not worried about educating collectors.

When I frist knew about the museum I read it and saw the Snodgrass information was wrong. When I emailed to try and get the information straight and sent scans. The return email asked me to send in my Nodgrass so it can be authenticated.
That is what you did wrong.

THIS IS WHAT YOU DID WRONG-I do beleive you know this and I believe you know nothing is going to happen to you legally. That is why you taunt. That is a crime in itself.

Pat it is a shame- a guy like you -with the knowledge of 206 and a great collection-scammed the hobby and is still trying to gain from it.

[danmckee]

I sent you an update on the Snodgrass info you had wrong on the site Pat. Let's see if you update it.

I personally don't think the site should stay up just because I don't trust that you will keep it legit.

Now I guess it isn't the site's fault so maybe if you give the name over to this board to have it maintained instead of you maintaining it, then I think it could become a useful tool to newcomers.

For the record, I am going to side with Jon Canfield on the packs. I am not saying Pat created them but I will say that it is impossible to guarantee a T206 baseball card is in them.

I don't think any card is in the 12 count packs but even if there were, how can you guarantee that it isn't a fish or a flag card?

Dan

[cfc1909]

I have put my effort in and nothing happens to this guy and he knows it so he taunts me and 54 members

[Potomac Yank]

I love you guys, and you mean well ... But!

This guy, and people like him, don't really care if you point him out.

He knows that the legal minds - investor/flippers and collectors, will NOT band together to get his @ss in Buttsville, where he could meet new friends ... all he has to do, is give back the money ... Isn't that right Pat?

[rdwyer]

If I knew how to do a quote I would. Anyways, here's an email I got from Pat Chan:

Hi,

I could be wasting my time emailing you but if you think keeping my site up is a bad thing then you need to know the whole fact of this hobby and this Net54 board.

I found another message board by Scott Elkin, he exposes a lot
of wrong doing of the Net54 "clique" members. Based on what I read
basically everyone on the Net54 board including Leon Luckey, Dan McGee,
Jeff Lichtman, Brian Cataquet, Ivey family etc have scam other collectors
before. Scott Elkin also exposes Luckey runs his auction just to sell off
his "bad" cards. Those members just pretend they are good people on their
own board and cover each other's asses and those are the same people
pounding on me as well. Sorry to say that there are just no clean and
innocent collectors in this hobby. If my site needs to be shutdown so as
Net54 board and Luckey's auction.....at least I try my best to provide accurate info on t206s unlike Net54 board taking down "bad" posts that are against auction houses who paid them for banner advestisments. With that say, I do think I deserve a second chance. If you have time to read all Scott
Elkin's old messages, you will see what I am talking about and overall I
am not really that bad comparing to those Net54 "clique" members.

Regards,
Pat

I deleted the link to the website he provided, because it's a bunch of crap. The FBI visited Pat Chan only. Enough said. Get a life Pat Scam!

[barrysloate]

Holy crap! Where do you begin taking apart Patrick's email?

Patrick- that information is outrageous and I don't believe a word of it. This is going to get ugly.

[Anthony S.]

Pat,

I think Scott Elkins' paranoid diatri....um, message board is the perfect place for you. Do you like poultry?

[Potomac Yank]

After I deleted it, I kicked myself ... could've learned a lot about the T206 set from that novice. :)

[danmckee]

Who is Dan McGee?

[danmckee]

Hey I am proud to have my name butchered (mentioned) in the same sentence with Leon and Lichtman, I will stand with that company any day. Dan McGee.

[calvindog]

I can't say that I'm surprised that a scumbag like Pat Chan would find solace in the insane ramblings of one Jimmy Scott Elkins. Two peas in a pod. Pat, I'm glad you found his site - unlike his imaginary friends that inhabit it you actually are a real criminal and would fit right in. Maybe the two of you could conspire to lift up a heavy tray of strawberries at Walmart -- and then you'll never have to work again!

[carrigansghost]

I would be proud to own some of Leon's "bad cards". Leon, please send that "bad" WG5 Farrar right over.:):D

Rawn

[Leon]

I guess my jig is up. I guess I can't fool the 1000+ collectors on this board anymore. It's all a big scam guys.....Just listen to Idiot Chan.....He needs to be in jail plain and simple. He will undoubtedly scam someone else. His was not just a mistake. It was a premeditated, long, drawn out plan to scam collectors out of 10's of thousands of dollars. For that he really should be sitting next to Bubba in a cell.....

[bond73]

If what I read from Elkin's message board were incorrect or not the whole story then I apologize for that. That's the reason why I didn't post what I found from his board onto this board but rdwyer decides to post those info then I couldn't control it.

[cfc1909]

Pat
respond to post #20

[calvindog]

Pat, stop apologizing. It's very clear that you fall over yourself apologizing in an effort to get people off your case -- you think the more you fall to your knees the more people will take pity on you. But then as soon as you're let up you go back to your lies and deceit and crimes. No one could be that dumb to believe the crap on Elkins' site -- even Elkins isn't that dumb.

[Potomac Yank]

I hope you're not holding your breath. :)

[slidekellyslide]

I have put my effort in and nothing happens to this guy and he knows it so he taunts me and 54 members

Jim, no good deed ever goes unpunished.

This guy crapped his pants when the FBI came knocking...he knows how lucky he is to skate on this. He's probably just got the "T-206 mania" again.

[slidekellyslide]

Pat, stop apologizing. It's very clear that you fall over yourself apologizing in an effort to get people off your case -- you think the more you fall to your knees the more people will take pity on you. But then as soon as you're let up you go back to your lies and deceit and crimes. No one could be that dumb to believe the crap on Elkins' site -- even Elkins isn't that dumb.

Scott Elkins is a genius, and he's all set to prove it. He's challenged you, me and 2 or 3 other members of "the clique" to a university administered IQ test with each of us putting up $5,000.


:D

[bond73]

Jim,

The scarcity back checklist got edited a few times with the help of many collectors over the years. I took every input into consideration and no one disagree those Old Mill bar backs aren't the rarest backs. If those backs should have been considered as scrap backs rather than regular backs then that's another story. Members on this board also mentioned Old Mill SL brown backs should not be part of the regular backs as well.

I have already addressed the issue regards to consigning the Revelle to REA in the other thread.

We always regret selling/trading out cards for things that we wanted and wished that never happened. I wish I sold my collection a few yrs ago and bought a Wagner when it was still in $50k range as well. The collector who had the Hart got fully compensated and have put the money in some other things that he loves. I don't know what I can do better here.

Regarding Nodgrass variations, I have even received email from George H. (the person who created all those fake Nodgrass variations) telling me the catching pose of Nodgrass do exist. I asked him to send his card to me for inspection. Was it wrong? I can't just listen to collectors blindly and update my website base on what I received thru email right? (BTW Dan, I have already edited the site regards to Nodgrass variations yesterday)

I really don't remember what happened to the Latham Brown Lenox back auction, pls email me to explain.

Dan, I understand the 12 Cts Piedmont pack could include fish or flag non-sport tobacco card but I pulled a t206 from one of the two packs that I obtained from the same collection. Wouldn't that be a common sense the other pack also has a t206 card rather than a non-sport card? I am curious too but just have no guts to verify. That's why I offer full refund if my pack doesn't has a t205 or t206 inside. I will even offer full refund if there's only non-sport card inside the pack.

rdwyer, you can find the REA Piedmont pack with t206 inside here (http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_73.html). I am not the first one stating these 12 cts pack has t206 in it. This article was written by Beckett back in 1992 (http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_81.html) In addition, there was a similar unopened Drum pouch in Mile High auction last year claiming there's a t205 or t206 inside as well.

Pat

[danmckee]

Pat, Jim's meaning with the ebay Latham auction you out gunned him on is only that he saw you then as an avid back collector like himself and was hoping to be able to share many more discussions and info back and worth. Then he sees you for what you really are and he is very disappointed. That is all, you did nothing wrong by beating him out in an ebay auction.

"I can't just listen to collectors blindly and update my website base on what I received thru email right? "

I like this one Patrick, You made those fake bar backs and wanted everyone to accept your word blindly that they were from a recent discovery and were legit. But you can't accept the words of known experts throughout the hobby?

Thanks for correcting the Nodgrass information on your site, though if I were you, I would probably accept George H?b??s word over mine as you seem to make bad choices often.

And one last thing, there is NO WAY any of those drum pouches hold or ever held any type of cards. Just more insanity.

McGee

[bond73]

Dan,

I should have listened to you more than anyone. You are the one who first spotted those altered Nodgrass. You are the one who fought with PSA for your lost Magie. You and along with others spotted those Old Mill SL black bar backs and stop me from further damaging this hobby. I am sure you have archieved more than the above. You are the hero. I am not being sarcastic but I really appreciated you plus others stopping me messing this hobby further.

Pat

[danmckee]

Dearest Patrick, I am no hero. I stopped the Nodgrass scam which was costing collectors tens of thousands of dollars because it was wrong. I sued PSA because they lost my Magie card. I assisted in stopping you from distributing the bar backs because it was wrong.

I am no one's hero, well maybe my daughter's (poor girl)

I just love my hobby and enjoy being a part of it, or I should say I really enjoyed how it used to be.

McGee

[calvindog]

Dan,

You are the hero.
Pat

No, Pat: you are the hero. Stealing money from unsuspecting hobbyists; crapping in your pants after a visit from the FBI; blaming the victims and all those who dared to criticize your criminal behavior -- and still able to prostrate yourself on the Net 54 alter. No, I am certain that it is you that is the hero.

[rdwyer]

Pat Chan:

I don't believe one word of anything you put on your website! Just like you doctored up those overprints, you doctored up many stories on your website. Just because they're on your website, doesn't mean they're true.

What I want to see is proof that a card was pulled out of a 12 count pack. Not just pictures of something that may or may not have happened, and a story to go with it. Even if you could show me the Beckett article, I would think that you were somehow behind that story also.

Amazing 100 years later, how all of the sudden a card is found in a pack distributed after 1917. You would think that someone else would have done the same long before now. Especially since there were millions & millions of packs sold after 1917.

As for the Drum Pouch, give up! Admit, you're a fraud. I read the website completely that you sent me in email, and you been exposed both places. I hope Leon never bans you here, because I enjoy seeing you make an ass of yourself here.

[canjond]

To answer a previous question, 12 count packs were not authorized to be issued by the US Gov't until 1917. My original belief had been that any 12-count pack that had a card inside was doctored (and I'm in no way speculating who may have doctored the pack). Other possibilities could include that T206 distribution lasted until 1917, or that despite the fact 12 count configurations weren't allowed until 1917 by law, 12 count configurations were produced before that time. Of note, however, is that I've never seen a 12 count cigartte pack that had a 1910era tax stamp on it. All I have seen have had a 1912-1917 era tax stamp.

[Leon]

"I hope Leon never bans you here, because I enjoy seeing you make an ass of yourself here."

we(me and a few others) are discussing this privately now.....

[cfc1909]

thanks Dan M.-your post is exactly what I am saying-post #40. I am no expert but I know enough about t206s to know the museum was created for your creations and your gain on unsuspecting collectors.

You lied to veteran collectors and told them to purchase the Hart card just for your own gain-and you can't spell their name either. You did steal cards by trading away the Hart (a common doctored southern league card-$50 card) for thousands of dollars worth of t206 errors that can't be replaced.

A very good collector got rid of a BL 460 HOF card ( that can't be replaced) after they talked to you and you said the Hart is good.

You can't listen to every collector that emails you about the site. You know who to listen to and who not to. But we are supposed to all listen to what you put on the site. You created a story about an Old Mill find that has the very rare double bar Old Mill in it. Let me guess if you had it to do over again you would make the bar RED. You are probably making RED ones right now.

If the Revelle sold with nobody knowing you would have kept going. Thank that we don't just listen to some site about 206s and we examined the fake bar Old Mills.

That site is a joke and now everybody knows it because of your greed.

There are honest good collectors, your just not one of them.

Dan B. -thank you also and I hope you are right about every good deed.

[Potomac Yank]

The violinist is no Stradivarius.

Reverse psychology never fails.
If you let them talk, you will always find out their shoe size. :D

I'm a great believer in letting them TALK.
Look what advance talking has done for the political world.
LET THEM TALK! :)

[danmckee]

I agree with Joe on this one. Banning Patrick would be a true loss. Every time he writes something on here, his ditch gets deeper and deeper.

I know you are a very nice guy Jon Canfield and you are by far my expert in packs but as far as I am concerned, there is no way those packs held, hold, or should ever hold cards. All based on the tax stamp. You can forget the part where they were made in 1910 but not released til 1917, I don't smoke but I imagine stoggies need to be fresh. McGee.

[jmk59]

I can't believe that Criminal Chan is on here discussing cards and back rarity and Nodgrass variations. What?

I have a really good friend who is the most honest person alive. Unfortunately, his wife went into the ditch and embezzled almost $50K from her employer - she was somewhere in the Accounting dept. They paid restitution, she had a supervision process, and she never actually went to jail.

Unsurprisingly, she still can't get an accounting job even years later. Her husband, my friend, is mystified by this. He asks me "Joann, she has paid her debt. How long will she have to be punished for this?"

Forever. That's the answer. In the accounting world, someone that embezzled from a position as an accountant is pretty much out of the field forever, right? Didn't matter that she didn't go to jail. She is ostracized by her profession.

Same here for Criminal Chan. He deceived and stole from this community, and attempted to steal more. Not in vague unknown ways to numerous unknown people, but within this small community where people know each other and in a major auction that everybody enjoys watching.

I can't believe that he is here talking T206. And I can't believe that anyone is engaging him on the merits of his T206 arguments or the update status of his website. The more we discuss pack dates and back rarity with him, the more it dilutes what he did.

Just because the criminal system elected not to punish him doesn't mean that he should get similar treatment from the collecting community that he defrauded all these years. Give him the heave-ho. Refuse to speak to him about any T206 topic that he raises. We can't complain about the justice system giving him a free pass if we are willing to give him one too.

J

[calvindog]

Joann, really eloquently stated.

[Jim VB]

I think Mr. Chan is extremely fortunate. Had he sold one of his fake cards to me, I would not have been so responsive to the offer of restitution in exchange for a free skate.

I suspect many others would feel the same way.


Edited to add- Joann, you're going to make a terrific lawyer, but a "hanging" judge! LOL!

[jmk59]

Thank you, Jeff. To be honest, your post upthread where you said he is a criminal plain and simple is what really got me thinking this way. You are right. He is a criminal. It's that simple.

J

ETA: haha JVB. The truth is that I am one of the biggest suckers in the world for a hard luck story or apology. I would be far from a hanging judge. If anything, I lean in the opposite direction. It just seems so bizarre to me that he is on here posting about cards.

[danmckee]

The problem with banning him and ignoring him is that his site is still up and newbes will find it and get suckered. Look at how many were suckered here at first. Treating that site as the gospel. I made my first post questioning who ran it about a year ago and the thread didn't get many responses and Jim and I were way in the minority of questioning it. New people will find it and think the info is good.

If we keep him here, it will remind some of us to every now and again go check that corrupt site.

I liked my idea of him turning the site over to the board and letting someone here run it but he never entertained that offer.

He kills himself every time he writes something stupid about those bogus packs. That he claims he opened.

If I found a pack like that and decided to open it, I would have a card party, have several people see the pack untouched, then film the actual opening. What a great event that would be!!

And I would then pull out a flag card.

[Jim VB]

Joann,

OK so the petty thieves, pimps, murderers, bankers, and Fortune 500 accountants will get off with a wrist slap.

Ebay scammers and guys selling fake cards will wonder why they are all in jail serving 25 to life.

[V117collector]

Banning people because of criminal activity is wrong!!!? There seems to be a few members on this board who have been convicted of much worse crimes (in my book). So banning an individual would only be hypocritical on management, unless all criminals are dismissed.. “LET THEM TALK” so other collectors can be more informed regarded crimes within our community.

I believe banning an individual should be made in a healthy and formed democratic decision ~ Public vote.

What’s the point of being a "Member" if you don’t have a voice?:cool:

[Rob D.]

Then again, if it was put to a vote on the board, how could we be sure that high-end collectors wouldn't hack into the system and corrupt the entire process?

[calvindog]

Brad, I'm a criminal defense lawyer and no doubt spend more time than everyone else on this board -- combined -- championing the rights of the accused. And no one is suggesting that those convicted of crimes should be barred from posting here. The concern has to do with allowing the proverbial fox into the henhouse here: preventing Chan access to this board so that he can't continue his criminal predator ways on the members of Net 54. Someone convicted of a drug crime 20 years ago is much less likely to prey on collectors here than someone like Chan, wouldn't you agree?

Posting here is a privilege, not a right, and Net 54 is not a classic democracy and certainly isn't required to be. Why should Chan be permitted to be a part of his community when he's already sh@t on this community -- and expresses little or no remorse as evidenced in his email?

[Bridwell]

Regarding the 1917 Piedmont pack which was sold in the 2008 REA auction, it looks to me it would be fairly easy for someone to fake that type of pack. They could probably steam open the wax paper wrapper and then steam off half of the tax stamp. That type of pack did not have the thin paper edge seal that earlier packs had, because it was replaced by the wax paper covering starting in the 1915 era. Someone could have carefully opened the pack and inserted a common T206. GAI was mis-identifying many packs as 1909-11 T206 packs which had tax stamps from 1917 or later on them. Apparently GAI did not have much knowledge of T206 packs at that time. I have seen at least 10 different GAI packs on ebay and I don't believe any of them could have had a T206 in them legitimately. Whoever faked the REA pack was hoping to sell other similar fakes at huge prices after the REA pack was opened and made public. REA fell for a hoax, it seems to me. If someone owned 3 or 4 other 1917 packs, they would have a motive to fake one of them and take a loss on it, in order to profit on the others.

[V117collector]

Then again, if it was put to a vote on the board, how could we be sure that high-end collectors wouldn't hack into the system and corrupt the entire process?


The only word that comes to mind is "Reform". Maybe voting should be held by a non-biased participant which is not connected to management or net54baseball members. This is the only way to insure a safe voting results :eek:

[calvindog]

The only word that comes to mind is "Reform". Maybe voting should be held by a non-biased participant which is not connected to management or net54baseball members. This is the only way to insure a safe voting results :eek:

Yes, but who will vet the non-biased participant? Perhaps we could get an accounting firm to tally the votes like they do with the Academy Award voting?

[Jim VB]

Yes, but who will vet the non-biased participant? Perhaps we could get an accounting firm to tally the votes like they do with the Academy Award voting?


The venerable firm of Dewey, Cheatum & Howe has offered their services... for a nominal fee.

[V117collector]

Yes, but who will vet the non-biased participant? Perhaps we could get an accounting firm to tally the votes like they do with the Academy Award voting?

Exactly Perhaps;)

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would let him stay, he hasn't violated any rules of the board as far as his posts go, and it's a good vehicle to confront him if he puts things on his website that are questionable.

[egbeachley]

I'll probably get crushed saying this, but.........until there is an alternative, it's the best T206 site out there.

[rdwyer]

According to Robert Forbes book: "American Tobacco Cards" Fish, Military, & Bird cards were issued during the years 1910-1911 only. I've been through the book completely many times, and can't remember any cards of any type being issued after 1917.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[WarHoundR69]

I've read this thread with extreme interest and just wanted to add the mentioned Law Firm's phone number:

1 - 800 - GET - EVEN

[dennis]

chan starting up the t206 museum.com again, is kind of like madoff reopening his investment firm. :confused:

[canjond]

Dan - I think you and I are in complete agreement here. I don't believe the packs could have held cards. My statement about of the tax stamps may have been misleading. between 1912 and 1917, the style of tax stamp didn't change, so it is very hard to narrow down the exact year a pack was produced during that time period, unless, of course, there is an overprint.

[slidekellyslide]

The guy made fake OM variations which could have done much more damage to the hobby had he not been caught...does anyone think he did not also fake the pulling of a T206 from one of those packs??? It's a real shame that the FBI didn't go further with this dude than just making him give restitution because we may never know the extent of the scams he has pulled.

[cfc1909]

I agree with Dan B.-I doubt it was only the bar Old Mills. Only thing on that site that is legit is the auction results.
The site was created for his creations and solely for his gain.

"The scarcity back checklist got edited a few times with the help of many collectors over the years. I took every input into consideration and no one disagree those Old Mill bar backs aren't the rarest backs"

These just happen to be his creations and "no one disagree those Old Mill bar backs aren't the rarest backs" and they belong at the top of the list.

This is what we know and I am sure we don't know all.

[rdwyer]

Clarification:

The only piedmont series of cards to appear in 1917 packs are T119's. (World Scenes and Portraits) And that's questionable according to Robert Forbes book on American Tobacco Cards. He states that they were issued between 1912-1917. The following are the only series ever issued by Piedmont cigarettes:

Non Sports:

T42 Fish 1910-1911
T58 Birds 1910
T119 World Scenes and Portraits 1912-1917

Sports:

T205 Gold Border 1911
T206 White Border 1909-1911
T 330-2 Art Stamps 1914

If anything, you would find a T119 in a 1917 Piedmont Pack (Factory 25, 2nd District, VA) What baffles me, is how no one else ever found a piedmont card in the millions and millions of packs sold after 1917. Pat Chan made up the story about a card being pulled from this pack.

[the 'stache]

I have to ask you guys if the owner of the t206museum.com as it currently exists on the web is the same person that was involved in this whole criminal enterprise with the fake Old Mills backs.

To borrow from Game of Thrones, "the web is dark, and full of terrors", and it seems that like a curious child, I wandered off the reservation, and found the site without checking the vintage links page here.

Should it be avoided at all costs? I am certain there are other forum members that are interested in learning all they can about the white borders series, and invariably in a search for knowledge, they might stumble across the site. So let's get the penultimate opinion on "museum" back on page one.

[Zach Wheat]

I have to ask you guys if the owner of the t206museum.com as it currently exists on the web is the same person that was involved in this whole criminal enterprise with the fake Old Mills backs.

To borrow from Game of Thrones, "the web is dark, and full of terrors", and it seems that like a curious child, I wandered off the reservation, and found the site without checking the vintage links page here.

Should it be avoided at all costs? I am certain there are other forum members that are interested in learning all they can about the white borders series, and invariably in a search for knowledge, they might stumble across the site. So let's get the penultimate opinion on "museum" back on page one.

Bill,

Read some of the old posts and you will understand better:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=124673

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=112152

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=112134

Z Wheat

[the 'stache]

Bill,

Read some of the old posts and you will understand better:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=124673

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=112152

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=112134

Z Wheat

Z-

I am reading these right now. Thank you for the links.

It is just mind boggling to me the lengths to which some people will go to defraud others in the name of profit. Just when you thought you've seen everything...

[the 'stache]

After restitution was made, I don't see how the FBI allowed this website to remain online. Chan went to extraordinary lengths to defraud the public, and yet it seems beyond the money he was forced to give back, he got off scot- free. I didn't see a mention of any jail time in the discussions I read today, so who's to say he won't try something like this again? Where's the deterrent? It took an incredible collaborative effort from John, Dan, Jim, Robert Lifson at REA, Brian Dwyer at SGC, and the FBI to uncover and provide conclusive evidence of Patrick Chan's illegal enterprise.

I know on the vintage links page we have trusted dealers, auction houses, historical & educational sites, and member pages. But should we have a list of questionable or potentially dangerous sites and sellers? A list with a simple caveat emptor would prove most helpful I would think.

[atx840]

I have done a few recent deals with Pat and have had no issues, as always i'd caution with any transaction that you look into the seller, the card(s) and use a protected payment method.

[4815162342]

I have done a few recent deals with Pat...

Really? Where? eBay? I'm really shocked that he's even still in the hobby in any form.

[atx840]

Pat sells through his site and privately...a few members on here deal with him. He still actively collects.