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JamesGallo
05-13-2009, 11:07 PM
Ok so can anyone give me any firm information about the white vs cream backs and about the two different dates. I can't seem to get anything from PSA or SGC.

It seems to be a pretty well collected and nice set even though it is british.

Thanks

James G

D. Bergin
05-18-2009, 08:02 AM
I believe 1-50 was issued in 1908 and 51-75 were issued in 1909.

Can't honestly say I've ever noticed the back issue and I don't think I have any on hand right now. Boxing card guys don't seem to be into the various back variations as much as the baseball card guys are, especially on foreign issues.

mikedenero
06-05-2009, 12:13 AM
Ok so can anyone give me any firm information about the white vs cream backs and about the two different dates. I can't seem to get anything from PSA or SGC.

It seems to be a pretty well collected and nice set even though it is british.

Thanks

James G

Jim,

There are 50 from 1908 (Pugilists & Wrestlers: Series One - the big card is John L. Sullivan) and 25 from 1909 (Pugilists & Wrestlers: Series Two - the big one is Jack Johnson). There is also 50 from 1915 (Boxers - Carpentier is in this one). While the fronts look alike on all three sets, the backs of the Pugilists & Wrestlers from 1908-1909 have blue print but the backs of the 1915 Boxers set have green print. I've never noticed a cream vs. white back and have never seen a date printed on any of the card backs. It's very confusing b/c grading companies often screw up. For example, I have a 1915 Carpentier in an SGC holder with a 1908 label on it :)

JamesGallo
06-09-2009, 04:41 PM
Mike,

Good to have you hear.

Do the 1908 and 1909 backs differ in color. Where the first 50 reissued in 1909? This is the only thing I can think of that would cause a different back. I think the only place I have heard of this back difference is PSA, so perhaps it is there foul up, but the above might explain it.

James G

mikedenero
06-10-2009, 08:13 PM
Jim,
I will check my remaining 1908-09 Ogdens tonight and post some back scans. Gimme a few hours, as today's my B-Day and, as such, I can't get to the cards until everyone but me is asleep! ;) If I can't figure it out tonight, I can send an e-mail to Martin Murray in London -- he knows everything!

mikedenero
06-10-2009, 10:52 PM
Jim,

See 4 scans below: two 1908 Sullivans, one 1909 Johnson, and one 1915 Carpentier. While it appears that there is a cream Sullivan and a white Sullivan, I think it's just aging, as I have several other 1908s and the back toning varies from white to cream, depending upon aging, I guess. Also, you will notice that the backs of the 1908 and 1909 are slightly different. The 1915 is written in green. Hope this helps.
http://app8.sellersourcebook.com/users/37781/b_-_1908_ogdens_-_osullivan_psa5_again_-_2.jpg
1908 Sullivan
http://app8.sellersourcebook.com/users/37781/b_-_1908_-_ogden__s_-_sullivan_psa_-_2.jpg
Another 1908 Sullivan
http://app8.sellersourcebook.com/users/37781/b_-_1909_-_ogden__s_-_johnson_sgc_40_-_2.jpg
1909 Johnson
http://app8.sellersourcebook.com/users/37781/b_-_1909_-_ogden__s_-_carpentier_-_2.jpg
1915 Carpentier

JamesGallo
06-10-2009, 11:07 PM
Mike

Are those Suillivans' marked that same on the flip? I think that is a pretty drastict difference and my gut says that is what the cause of the white vs cream back is. The question still remains if that was a intended difference or just aging. I don't think it's just aging though.

It would be great to ask anyone who might have some other ideas. I have attels that would make your sullivans' as far as colors of the back.

James G

mikedenero
06-11-2009, 12:03 PM
Jim,

The PSA label does NOT differentiate between cream and white on the Sullivans. I think the "white" Sullivan I posted displays whiter in the scan than on the actual card. I have an ungraded partial set in VG-EX and the backs go from white to cream, but it really appears to be an aging issue.