Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ? [Archive]

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04-02-2009, 03:07 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThere is no argument that the Red portrait Cobb was American Lithographic's "signature picture" for its white bordered T-card sets. This picture of Cobb appears on at least 30 white bordered cards with various Tobacco advertising backs. But, there appears to be some argument regarding the relative scarcity of its 11 toughest T206 backs. So, let's run a survey and see what results. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd339/tz1234zaz/broadleaf460back.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> I will start this survey with 2 of my 4 red Cobb cards. 0....BROAD LEAF 460 0....DRUM 0....HINDU (red) 0....LENOX (black) 0....UZIT 1....SOVEREIGN 460 1....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 0....CAROLINA BRIGHTS 0....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 0....CYCLE 460 0....EPDG OK, guys and gals.....how about running up the numbers.....show and/or tell us about your red Cobb(s) ? Remember, this survey is not limited to just these 11 backs....any Red Cobb is welcome to this study. Thanks for your time an effort responding to this survey. TED Z

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04-02-2009, 03:16 PM

Posted By: andy beckerwhen i collected red cobbs, i had: sov 460 cb piedmont 42 i no longer own any of these.

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04-02-2009, 03:19 PM

Posted By: stefanpiedmont 42 and tolstoi.

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04-02-2009, 03:20 PM

Posted By: stefanAmerican beauty 350 with frame.

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04-02-2009, 03:20 PM

Posted By: PaulI have one Piedmont350-460 Factory 42!

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04-02-2009, 03:26 PM

Posted By: Bob ManningSweet Cap 350

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04-02-2009, 03:35 PM

Posted By: RichardI had a lenox that I crossed from a GAI 2 holder to an SGC 2 holder. I also own one factory 42 and one carolina brights.

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04-02-2009, 03:35 PM

Posted By: Jim RiveraSovereign 350

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04-02-2009, 03:48 PM

Posted By: peter ullmani have none...but...it seems there are a lot of pied fact 42's out there...odd?

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04-02-2009, 03:54 PM

Posted By: Brian E.Of the T206 Cobb Red Portraits that I consider scarce backs I have On your list: Lenox (on ebay right now) Carolina Brights Piedmont F42 Not on your list: Broadleaf 460 American Beauty Cycle 460 EPDG

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04-02-2009, 04:26 PM

Posted By: RichardBroadleaf 460 clearly belongs on the short list. Perhaps at or near the top.

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04-02-2009, 04:31 PM

Posted By: stefanbroadleaf, and hindu's should be at the top.

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04-02-2009, 04:35 PM

Posted By: Brian E.I would say that a Cobb Hindu Red or Black is more difficult to find than a Lenox or Uzit. Just my thoughts after looking for a Cobb hindu for a few years

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04-02-2009, 04:53 PM

Posted By: barry arnoldjust a good ole regular Piedmont 350 that i'll never part with,Ted. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> best, barry

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04-02-2009, 05:28 PM

Posted By: Aaron SeefeldtGreat thread Ted.

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04-02-2009, 06:10 PM

Posted By: Frank A.Have a Sweet Cap 350 back, fac. 25. Frank A.

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04-02-2009, 07:03 PM

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> 1st....As I've already stated, the BROAD LEAF 460 is not on the list because there is no debate that it is absolutely the scarcest. Anyhow, I doubt that more than 2 examples would be reported here. 2nd....This survey was mainly prompted by a discussion regarding the relative scarcity of this Cobb with DRUM, LENOX, Red HINDU and UZIT backs. I added the CAROLINA BRIGHTS, PIEDMONT 460/42 and the SOVEREIGN 460 to this survey because I feel that these 3 are also quite scarce. But, since some have requested here, I now have added AMERICAN BEAUTY 350, CYCLE 460 and EPDG backs to this survey. OK, get this straight....the order that the backs are listed here has no relation to their scarcity...... that is what we are trying to determine from this survey. Updated survey...... 0....DRUM 0....HINDU (red) 2....LENOX (black) 0....UZIT 2....SOVEREIGN 460 6....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 3....CAROLINA BRIGHTS 2....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 1....CYCLE 460 1....EPDG Good start, guys; but, we need a lot more inputs to get an accurate sampling. Where are all the Red Cobb's that I know are out there in Net54-land ? TED Z

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04-02-2009, 07:10 PM

Posted By: Art M.Ted, Here are the T206 Cobb, red, cards that I have: American beauty 350 with frame Carolina brights Cycle 460 Old Mill Piedmont 350, factory 25 Piedmont 350-460, factory 42 Polar Bear Sovereign 350 Sovereign 460 Sweet Cap 350, factory 30 Sweet Cap 350-460, factory 30 Sweet Cap 350-460, factory 42 with overprint Tolstoi T213 Coupon, type 2 Good luck with the survey. Art

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04-03-2009, 03:06 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisUPDATED survey....4/3/09....adding Art's inputs and an email from a Net54 reader. 0....DRUM 1....HINDU (red) 2....LENOX (black) 0....UZIT 3....SOVEREIGN 460 7....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 4....CAROLINA BRIGHTS 4....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 2....CYCLE 460 1....EPDG So far, only 24 inputs......it would be nice to get 100+ responses. This is a very popular card, how about it Net54er's, tell us of your Red Cobb (s) ? TED Z

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04-03-2009, 10:01 AM

Posted By: Frank WakefieldGolly, Ted... you asked to hear about my red portrait Cobb. I have one, the only one I've ever had in the white border set. It isn't on you're list, because it's common I reckon... Piedmont 350-460 factory 25. Now I've told you about my red Cobb, as asked!!

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04-03-2009, 10:21 AM

Posted By: J HullMine's also not on your list, Ted. Sweet Caporal 350-460 with overprint.

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04-03-2009, 10:54 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisYou have a T206 Cobb (bat off shoulder) with a rare back that NONE of the Red Cobb collector's have (and will never have). An AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 back....and, I know you are very proud of this card <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> Regards, TED Z

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04-03-2009, 11:41 AM

Posted By: Bruce BabcockI have a Sweet Cap 350, Factory 30. Not rare. Nobody asked but my green portrait is an Old Mill Factory 25. Also not rare. But they are two of my favorites and, although I've sold almost all of my T206s, I can't seem to part with these.

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04-03-2009, 12:35 PM

Posted By: Mark Tylicki<img src="http://www.rustywilly.com/cards/PSACARD/8150887_011_FRONT.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://www.rustywilly.com/cards/PSACARD/8150887_011_BACK.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> ------------------------------ MY COLLECTION: <a href="http://www.rustywilly.com/MYCOLLECTION.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.rustywilly.com/MYCOLLECTION.htm</a>

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04-03-2009, 01:37 PM

Posted By: David RI have one red Cobb. It has an Old Mill back.

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04-03-2009, 03:34 PM

Posted By: Scott LevyWow 7 P42s. That is an impressive hoard of those toughies....

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04-03-2009, 03:36 PM

Posted By: Craig WHi Ted, I have a Piedmont Factory 42 and a Polar Bear. Craig

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04-03-2009, 05:47 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks for all your inputs, guys. Also, I have received 6 emailed inputs from Net54 readers. I'll tally up the data and post an updated list later tonite. For you guys who have posted your Cobb's with backs other than these 10 scarcest ones, I appreciate your inputs and near the end of this survey these backs will also be tallied. We are on a roll here, keep the inputs rolling in. We can't have enough Red Cobb's....can we ? TED Z

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04-03-2009, 06:21 PM

Posted By: Dave HornishTed, since you are doing an overall tally as well my Red Cobb is a Piedmont 350, as I suspect many others are as well.

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04-03-2009, 08:06 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThe most often seen backs on the Red Cobb's are...... PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 POLAR BEAR TED Z

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04-03-2009, 09:31 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks guys and 6 inputs emailed from Net54 readers. UPDATED survey....4/4/09 0....DRUM 1....HINDU (red) 3....LENOX (black) 0....UZIT 3....SOVEREIGN 460 9....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 4....CAROLINA BRIGHTS 7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 3....CYCLE 460 2....EPDG OK, we have 32 total inputs....we need a lot more data points here in order to arrive at some valid conclusions. Check-out your Red Cobb's and tell us about them ? TED Z

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04-03-2009, 10:52 PM

Posted By: Lee BehrensProbably no surprise but I have a Cycle 460. I have noticed that people posted about cards they once owned, are they being counted? Lee

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04-04-2009, 05:55 AM

Posted By: Rick McQuillanHI Ted, You can put me down for a Piedmont 350/460 25/2. Thanks, Rick

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04-04-2009, 08:59 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks for your CYCLE 460 input.....I rarely see a Red Cobb with this back. All inputs are being tallied....even if you do not have your Red Cobb, anymore. TED Z

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04-04-2009, 09:04 AM

Posted By: hennesseyTed, I have 1 with a polar bear back for your survey

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04-04-2009, 01:02 PM

Posted By: David McDonaldTed: I have a Red Cobb with Old Mill back (per my e-mail last night). DMcD

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04-04-2009, 03:50 PM

Posted By: BillTed, My Red Cobb has a Tolstoi back. Bill

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04-05-2009, 04:02 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks for all your inputs. The daily update will be posted as soon as I can sort out the 5 emails that I received on this subject from Net54 readers. TED Z

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04-05-2009, 04:24 PM

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> UPDATED survey....4/5/09 Scarcest group...... 0....DRUM 1....HINDU (red) 3....LENOX (black) 0....UZIT 3....SOVEREIGN 460 9....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 4....CAROLINA BRIGHTS 7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 4....CYCLE 460 2....EPDG Next group...... 2....TOLSTOI 4....OLD MILL 2....SOVEREIGN 350 2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) 2....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 2....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 6....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 7....POLAR BEAR OK, we have 61 total inputs....we need a lot more data points here in order to arrive at some valid conclusions. Check-out your Red Cobb's and tell us about them ? TED Z

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04-05-2009, 05:35 PM

Posted By: jackgoodmanPut me down for a Piedmont fact 25 and a Tolstoi.

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04-06-2009, 08:38 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks JACK G for your input. And, there are 4 more inputs from Net54 readers. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> UPDATED survey....4/6/09 Scarcest group...... 0....DRUM 1....HINDU (red) 3....LENOX (black) 0....UZIT 3....SOVEREIGN 460 9....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 4....CAROLINA BRIGHTS 7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 4....CYCLE 460 2....EPDG Next toughest group...... 2....SOVEREIGN 350 0....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25 1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) 4....TOLSTOI 4....OLD MILL The easier ones...... 2....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 2....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 6....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 4....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 7....POLAR BEAR OK, we have 68 total inputs; but, we need a lot more data points here in order to arrive at some valid conclusions. Guys & gals, do not be shy about telling us of your Red Cobb cards.....check-out your T206's and post them here ? TED Z

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04-06-2009, 08:41 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanTed, I'll post mine tonight. Also, this survey cannot be complete until the carpet guy from Michigan chimes in after he's done rioting after basketball tonight. He's the Nelson & Bunker Hunt of red Cobbs.

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04-07-2009, 05:46 AM

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis<img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> still looking forward to seeing your Cobb's <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> TED Z

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04-07-2009, 06:11 AM

Posted By: Kenny ColeMine has a Polar Bear back.

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04-07-2009, 06:16 AM

Posted By: Anonymouscycle 350 2 sweet caporal 30 NY

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04-07-2009, 09:25 AM

Posted By: Martin NealPiedmont 350 factory 25

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04-07-2009, 03:52 PM

Posted By: MikeSweet Caporal 350 Factory # 30.

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04-07-2009, 04:07 PM

Posted By: Jeff Prillamanpicked up 4 red Border Cobbs today three are 350/460 25/2 the other is Old Mill Factory 25/2nd district

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04-07-2009, 07:23 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks guys for posting your Cobb's and thanks to all the Net54 readers that've contacted me. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> UPDATED survey....4/7/09 Scarcest group...... ..1....BROAD LEAF 460 ..0....DRUM ..1....HINDU (red) ..3....LENOX (black) ..0....UZIT ..3....SOVEREIGN 460 10....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 ..5....CAROLINA BRIGHTS ..4....CYCLE 460 ..2....EPDG Next toughest group...... ..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 ..1....CYCLE 350 ..3....SOVEREIGN 350 ..0....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 ..2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) ..5....TOLSTOI ..7....OLD MILL The easier ones...... ..2....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 ..9....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 10....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 10....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 ..9....POLAR BEAR OK, we have 96 total inputs.....but, we need many more data points in order to arrive at some valid conclusions. Guys & gals, do not be shy about telling us of your Red Cobb cards....hop onto this bandwagon and add your Cobb to this list. Who will be the first to reach the 100th input ? TED Z

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04-08-2009, 04:32 AM

Posted By: Scott LevyTed, You are a pro at front back variations....what's the deal with 10 factory 42s -- seems way out of line with that back's perceived scarcity.

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04-08-2009, 05:31 AM

Posted By: Bob DonaldsonCycle 460

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04-08-2009, 08:31 AM

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis1st....the 10 red Cobb's reported (so far) with PIEDMONT 460 Fac. 42 do not surprise me in the least. If we were to get a lot more participation in this survey (at least 200 inputs), we would get a more realistic perspective. And, the 10 red Cobb's with P460/42 backs would not seem out of line. 2nd....in a P460/42 survey that I ran last November, the six super-prints (this red Cobb is one) were more often reported with P460/42 backs than other 350/460 subjects. Furthermore, I have a theory why this Cobb is found with many P460/42 backs. The PIEDMONT brand was very popular in the South- east, so American Litho. printed up many red Cobb's at the tail end of the PIEDMONT run and shipped them to Durham, NC (Factory 42) to be inserted into the L&M PIEDMONT packs. 3rd....Finally, In recent years, P460/42 cards have been sought after much more so than in the past. The 1st T206 set that I put together back in the 1980's had 4 - P460/42 cards in it....that I was not even aware of. Simply, because this back was seldom seen (most collectors were unaware of it). When Bill Heitman published The Monster in 1980, Red HINDU backed T206's were virtually unknown. TED Z

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04-08-2009, 08:41 AM

Posted By: DrewHi Ted My red Cobbs sweet cap 350..30 tolstoi Drew

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04-08-2009, 08:43 AM

Posted By: Scott StifflerSweet Cap 350 / factory 30

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04-08-2009, 09:12 AM

Posted By: Frank A.Ted; I am not reporting another Cobb, but pulled my card out to check the factory number again. It is a Sweet Cap factory 25, 350 back. Are these for some reason scarce, as I see all others are fac 30

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04-08-2009, 11:07 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThe Red Cobb is not often seen with a Sweet Caporal 350 Factory 25 (VA) back. And, it is less seen with a Sweet Caporal 460 Factory 25 back. I'm not sure why this is so....as the Factory 30 (NY) versions of both these Sweet Caps are very plentiful. TED Z

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04-08-2009, 01:57 PM

Posted By: ErikV I have a red back Cobb (PSA 3).....Piedmont It's a 350/460 back, factory 25/dist. 2. Edited to include t-brand.

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04-08-2009, 05:56 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisYou left out the T-brand on your " xx 460 Fac, 25 " Cobb ? TED Z

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04-08-2009, 05:57 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks BOB, DREW, SCOTT and ERIK for your Cobb inputs and thanks to two Net54 readers that have contacted me with their inputs. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> UPDATED survey....4/8/09 Scarcest group...... ..1....BROAD LEAF 460 ..0....DRUM ..1....HINDU (red) ..3....LENOX (black) ..0....UZIT ..3....SOVEREIGN 460 10....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 ..5....CAROLINA BRIGHTS ..5....CYCLE 460 ..2....EPDG Next toughest group...... ..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 ..1....CYCLE 350 ..3....SOVEREIGN 350 ..0....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 ..2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) ..6....TOLSTOI ..7....OLD MILL The easier ones...... ..2....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 11....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 10....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 12....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 ..9....POLAR BEAR OK, we have 102 total inputs.....but, we still need many more data points in order to arrive at some valid conclusions. Guys & gals, do not be shy about telling us of your Red Cobb cards....hop onto this bandwagon and add your Cobb(s) to this list. Hey JEFF L....where are all these Cobb's you have ? TED Z

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04-08-2009, 07:13 PM

Posted By: Marc S.included above come from a collector? If so, you might want to add in the example that is in REA to your population.

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04-08-2009, 08:45 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThe Red HINDU recorded in the survey list is the one from the current REA auction. TED Z

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04-09-2009, 12:44 PM

Posted By: JBPiedmont 350................add one for that Cobb.

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04-09-2009, 02:35 PM

Posted By: JustinI have a Sweet Caporal 350-460 overprint

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04-09-2009, 03:18 PM

Posted By: David McDonaldKeep up the good work, Ted. <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/bbbofsfirstclass/miscellanybaseball/websize/exexCobb%20holding%20T206ex.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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04-15-2009, 08:05 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisReceived 11 more inputs, since I've been "computer-less"....so, here is the updated tally for anyone still interested. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> UPDATED survey....4/15/09 Scarcest group...... ..1....BROAD LEAF 460 ..0....DRUM ..1....HINDU (red) ..3....LENOX (black) ..0....UZIT ..3....SOVEREIGN 460 10....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 ..5....CAROLINA BRIGHTS ..5....CYCLE 460 ..2....EPDG Next toughest group...... ..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 ..1....CYCLE 350 ..3....SOVEREIGN 350 ..0....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 ..4....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) ..6....TOLSTOI ..9....OLD MILL The easier ones...... ..3....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 12....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 14....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 10....POLAR BEAR We have a total of 113 inputs....but, we need at least 200 inputs in order to arrive at some meaningful conclusions. Guys and gals, don't be shy....show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> Hey Jeff Lichtman......we are still waiting to see all your Red Cobb's....are you hoarding them ? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> TED Z

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04-15-2009, 09:15 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanTed, glad to see you again! We tried all that we could to lure you out of hiding on the new board -- to no avail! I've got a single red Cobb and it's a lowly Piedmont 350, factory 25.

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04-15-2009, 09:26 AM

Posted By: Craig WHi Ted, Last nite a T213-1 Red Cobb ended on ebay. I know you believe the Type 1 Coupons should be part of T206, so I thought you might like to be aware of it. (I tried a snipe of $1200, but obviously I got blown out of the water!) Here's the link: <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&it em=120401023810" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&it em=120401023810</a>

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04-15-2009, 09:31 AM

Posted By: Bruce MacAdd another Old Mill to your list.

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04-15-2009, 10:10 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI saw your's and John W's "lures"....as soon as I can get the software to enable my computer with it's new Hard Drive to work with my scanner....I will "blow you guys out of the water" with my T206 Cobb. Incidently, I must say, I'm disappointed that you did have some "exotic" Red Cobb's <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> TED Z

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04-15-2009, 12:54 PM

Posted By: Donavon ArabieCraig, I bid on the T213-1 Cobb as well, but couldn't make myself go any higher. The paperloss killed it for me & the top edge definately looked trimmed. Still a nice card, though.

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04-15-2009, 03:20 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI'm not going to add this "baby" to the survey list....lest I'll get grief from the " Burdick can't be wrong" crowd....and, who do I think I am to question him ? Thanx for bringing this 1910 Coupon to my attention. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1910couponcobb.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> TED Z

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04-16-2009, 11:58 AM

Posted By: Brian Weisner Hi Ted, Here are my Red Cobb's..... 1 Carolina Brights 1 Polar Bear 1 EPDG 1 Old Mill 1 Sovereign 350 1 Piedmont 460 42 1 Sweet Cap 460 25 1 Piedmont 350 1 Sweet Cap 460 30 Be well Brian

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04-16-2009, 12:11 PM

Posted By: John<img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/huge/jpeg.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> Ted funny you should say exotic Cobb's Jeff and I just purchased all these. All of the backs are Red Hindu....

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04-16-2009, 01:28 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks ole buddy......9 - Red Cobb's......now, that is really impressive. We might get to 200 cards, yet. Best regards, Brian. TED Z

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04-16-2009, 01:28 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisYour array of 7 pastel colored Cobb's are a pretty sight to see......However, check-out my 2 extraordinary UZIT Cobb's...... The "exotic-ness" of these two Cobb's certainly trump your 7 Cobb's....<img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abcobbbatuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> American Litho. must of thought Cobb was brandishing his "weapon" on this one and printed him with their T80 series. T-Rex TED

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04-16-2009, 01:34 PM

Posted By: JohnLMAO...Ted Cobb always said baseball was like war.

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04-16-2009, 03:55 PM

Posted By: Bruce BabcockAnyone have a guess as to how many red Cobbs (including all backs) exist? Probably an easier question is, how many red Cobbs have been graded, all companies included?

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04-16-2009, 04:15 PM

Posted By: Jim VBBruce, PSA shows they have graded 1093. SGC shows 303. Edited to add - I'll check with GAI on Monday.

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04-16-2009, 05:26 PM

Posted By: Brian E.Ted, I noticed your list is seeking to track the Red Hindus but I don't see an entry for a regular Hindu....In the years that I've been collecting the different Cobb backs, I've seen more EPDG, Lenox, Cycle and Uzits than even a normal Hindu Cobb. Brian E.

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04-16-2009, 05:35 PM

Posted By: Dave HornishIs the Red Cobb the most graded card at PSA and SGC?

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04-16-2009, 06:49 PM

Posted By: Jim VBDave, That's a pretty broad question. I don't think either company makes that info searchable in their database.

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04-16-2009, 06:50 PM

Posted By: Jim VBTed, I have two, both Sweet Cap 350 Factory 30.

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04-16-2009, 06:58 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI don't know how we can establish a grand total population of how many Red Cobb cards exist. Grading Co. POP reports are at best misleading (due to constant churning of re-grading). And, there are still many old dinosaurs like me who have ungraded Cobb's (currently, I have 4 such Red Cobb's). Then there are (by my count) 30 different Red Cobb's....24 T206's, Ty Cobb back, 1910 Coupon, T213-2, T213-3, T214 and T215....which complicates any true count of this Subject. Here is what we do know......in two independent T206 surveys totalling over 40,000 cards, the Red Cobb out-numbers all other T206 Subjects (except the 5 other Super-Prints) by a factor of approx. 2 to 1. The closest Subjects were guys like Johnson (portrait) and Joss (pitching). From these surveys, Johnson's sample was 110 cards and Joss' sample was 124 cards....while the Red Cobb's sample was 196. TED Z

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04-16-2009, 07:34 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisYou noted...... "I noticed your list is seeking to track the Red Hindus but I don't see an entry for a regular Hindu...." Are you alluding to the Brown HINDU back ? I don't think you are, because the Brown HINDU back exists only in the 150/350 Series of T206's. The Red Cobb was printed in the 350/460 Series; and therefore, can never be found with a Brown Hindu back. TED Z

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04-16-2009, 07:40 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks JEFF L, BRUCE M, BRIAN W, JIM VB and a Net54 reader for your inputs. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> UPDATED survey....4/16/09 Scarcest group...... ..1....BROAD LEAF 460 ..0....DRUM ..1....HINDU (red) ..3....LENOX (black) ..0....UZIT ..3....SOVEREIGN 460 11....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 ..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS ..5....CYCLE 460 ..3....EPDG Next toughest group...... ..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 ..1....CYCLE 350 ..4....SOVEREIGN 350 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 ..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) ..6....TOLSTOI 11....OLD MILL The easier ones...... ..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 14....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 16....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 11....POLAR BEAR We have a total of 127 inputs....but, we need at least 200 inputs in order to arrive at some meaningful conclusions. Guys and gals, don't be shy....show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards. TED Z

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04-16-2009, 09:05 PM

Posted By: RichardTed - Here is a drum. Not mine, but wish it was. <a href="http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=32&lot_num=646&lot_qua l=" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=32&lot_num=646&lot_qua l=</a>

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04-17-2009, 06:48 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI was aware of this Cobb when the Hunt find was reported. But, I didn't input it, hoping that some one here would provide a scan. Thanks again, TED Z

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04-20-2009, 07:34 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks to Richard and 4 emails responses from Net54 readers, we have 6 more inputs. TED Z

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04-20-2009, 07:37 AM

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> UPDATED survey....4/20/09 Scarcest group...... ..1....BROAD LEAF 460 ..1....DRUM ..1....HINDU (red) ..3....LENOX (black) ..0....UZIT ..3....SOVEREIGN 460 12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 ..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS ..5....CYCLE 460 ..3....EPDG Next toughest group...... ..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 ..1....CYCLE 350 ..4....SOVEREIGN 350 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 ..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) ..6....TOLSTOI 11....OLD MILL The easier ones...... ..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 14....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 20....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 11....POLAR BEAR We have a total of 133 inputs.....it doesn't look like we'll attain the 200 figure that I hoped for. Anyhow, we are 2/3 rds of the way there, and that will do for now. If there are anymore Cobb collectors out there, please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards. And, the only T206 back that has not been reported is the UZIT....does any one have one ? TED Z

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04-20-2009, 11:18 AM

Posted By: Glyn ParsonI have a Piedmont 460 Factory 25.

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04-21-2009, 11:30 AM

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis GLYN....thanks for your PIEDMONT 460/25 input. Also, I received a Net54 reader's email input with a TOLSTOI back. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> Here's my UZIT red Cobb.....it's too bad that it's my gimmicked-up fake. Otherwise, if real, it would be a really unique error that would command big $$$$$$. Actually, I'm surprised that such printing mistakes haven't been found, since American Lithographic was printing these Red Cobb's and the T80 Military men cards, simultaneously, in early 1911. In any event, still looking for a Red Cobb with a UZIT back to confirm its 24 different T206 backs. Or, any other Red Cobb's will do ? TED Z

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04-21-2009, 11:42 AM

Posted By: ToddI have one red Cobb. It has an Old Mill back.

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04-21-2009, 12:45 PM

Posted By: Bruce BabcockHi, Ted. I agree completely with you about resubmissions and ungraded cards owned by old farts like me. I was surprised, though, by how many have been graded, even accounting for resubmissions.

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04-21-2009, 06:35 PM

Posted By: gil lindgrented,you can add a sweet caporal 350 factory #30 to the list.

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04-21-2009, 10:12 PM

Posted By: Jeff D.You can add another Piedmont 460 factory 25 to the list.

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04-22-2009, 07:19 AM

Posted By: brian pOne more Piedmont 350 factory 25 can be added to the list. Brian

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04-22-2009, 08:43 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks for bringing up this subject again. I have given this some thought and I think we can extrapolate and arrive at an educated guess to answer your original question. Let's do a little math here...... Let's assume that this random survey of 40,000 T206 cards is valid. It yielded 196 red Cobb's......and, an over all ave- rage (OAA) of 78 each of the other 509 T206's. 40,000/509 T206 Subjects = OAA of 78 T206's.....509 = 524 - (the Big 6, 6-Super Prints, Dahlen, Elberfeld, Lundgren) 40,000/196 = a red Cobb per every 200 cards Red Cobb/OAA = 2.5 red Cobb's per any other 509 Subjects Simply stated, the Red Cobb lies somewhere between a Double Print and a Triple Print. Furthermore, Scot Reader, in his book "Inside T206", has a chapter on the "survivability" of the T206 cards. If I recall correctly, he estimates approx. 1 to 2 Million cards. I think Scot's estimate is a good one. So, if we divide 1 Million T206's by 200, it yields 5,000 red Cobb's. This number might sound high; and, I'm sure I'll be challenged on this population #.....but, that's my best guess. Best regards, TED Z

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04-22-2009, 12:12 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks....TODD....GIL....JEFF....BRIAN....for your Red Cobb inputs. I'm going to visit an old hobby friend tonite who has a huge T206 collection (all ungraded), which includes 8 red Cobb's. So, I will be upgrading this survey late tonite or tomorrow with at least 14 new inputs. TED Z

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04-22-2009, 12:15 PM

Posted By: Mike MattisonPolar Bear for me.

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04-22-2009, 12:25 PM

Posted By: ToddTed, Your survey is very interesting. It would be nice to know how many of the cards sampled have been graded. Most of my card collection is ungraded. Wonka - Love that yellow and purple Cobb ! Keep up the good work !

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04-22-2009, 12:25 PM

Posted By: PeterSpaethSovereign 350

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04-22-2009, 12:40 PM

Posted By: chipropHere is my only t206 Cobb... I'm bringing it to The National this year. <img src="http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i12/chiprop/cobbdrum-2.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i12/chiprop/cobbdrumbk.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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04-22-2009, 12:47 PM

Posted By: Toddnice Drum Cobb !!!

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04-22-2009, 03:00 PM

Posted By: RichardDanno - why are you bringing that to the national? To give to me? btw, in case you didn't hear, rare back / common front Cobb's are overrated.

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04-22-2009, 03:17 PM

Posted By: chipropRmann- You know I don't care too much for Cobb cards or rare backs, except for this one and the one you have.

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04-22-2009, 08:59 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisYou asked how many of these Red Cobb's have been graded....I'll see if I can post that info tomorrow. TED Z

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04-22-2009, 09:00 PM

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> UPDATED survey....4/22/09 Scarcest group...... ..1....BROAD LEAF 460 ..2....DRUM ..1....HINDU (red) ..3....LENOX (black) ..0....UZIT ..3....SOVEREIGN 460 12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 ..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS ..5....CYCLE 460 ..3....EPDG Next toughest group...... ..8....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 ..1....CYCLE 350 ..5....SOVEREIGN 350 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 ..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) ..7....TOLSTOI 13....OLD MILL The easier ones...... ..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 18....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 14....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 23....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 14....POLAR BEAR OK, we have a total of 151 inputs.....we just might attain that 200 figure yet. We are 3/4 ths of the way there, and it's looking better. If there are anymore Cobb collectors out there, please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards. And, the only T206 back that has yet to be reported is the UZIT.....does any one have one ? TED Z

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04-23-2009, 05:57 AM

Posted By: Dave HornishTed: Some observations from looking at the data, all obvious, but interesting nonetheless. 1)The Piedmont 460/42 and Old Mill seem to be candidates for "easier" status. 2)The Sweet Cap 460/42's also seem pretty tough. In fact, with one exception Sweet Cap backs taken individually seem scarce in relation to many other backs. 3) There does not seem to be nearly as many of each of the "easy" backs as I would have thought. I suspect under-reporting is the cause of this. 4) When looked at as 4 groups, the distribution flattens out some. I may be off by a couple but get the following out of 149 backs reported: All Piedmont: 49 or 32.9% All Sweet Cap: 30 or 20.1% All OM/Sov/PB: 31 or 20.8% All Other backs: 39 0r 26.2% Piedmont has the most as expected, but the other three groupings as a whole are pretty close. Based upon overall ppn. of all Piedmonts to all backs, there should be a lot more Piedmonts out there yet to be reported.

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04-23-2009, 06:12 AM

Posted By: Frank A.This may be a stupid question, but why no 150 backs on this list.

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04-23-2009, 06:16 AM

Posted By: Jim VBTed, I didn't recheck these, but I pulled them about a week or so back. Graded red Cobbs: by PSA: American Beauty.......10 Carolina Brights......4 Cycle.................1 EPDG..................4 Lenox.................2 Old Mill..............19 Piedmont..............90 Polar Bear............36 Sovereign.............13 Sweet Cap.............109 Tolstoi...............5 Ty Cobb...............1 Unknown...............800 PSA Total.............1093 by SGC: Unknown...............303

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04-23-2009, 06:29 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisDave There is no doubt about it, the Piedmont 350 Fac 25 and Sweet Cap 350 Fac 30 red Cobb's have been under-reported. I think this may be due to most collectors on Net54 go for the tougher backs. A more random sampling would most like- ly result in many more of these two easier backs. Frank The red Cobb was printed and issued in the 2nd (350) series of T206 set in 1910. And, then was further printed and is- sued in the 460 Series in late 1910 and 1911. Perhaps, you are thinking of the Green Cobb which was issued in the 1st (150) series in 1909. TED Z

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04-23-2009, 06:30 AM

Posted By: dan mckeea black Lenox and an American Beauty

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04-23-2009, 06:35 AM

Posted By: Frank WakefieldHey Frank A.... As I understand it, the white border tobacco cards were issued in a progression of series and brands. The series are somewhat obvious, the brand aspect isn't quite so obvious. Series 150 first, then 350, and last was 460. Green portrait cards and bat on shoulder (gray cap) Cobb cards were in series 150, and carried over into 350. Red portrait cards and bat off shoulder (black cap) Cobb cards first appear in series 350, and they continue into series 460. Ted Z can expand on this, no doubt. Scot Reader's great publication would help, too.

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04-23-2009, 02:12 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI could not have said it any more succinctly than you did. TED Z

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04-23-2009, 02:54 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisMy calculation estimates that there are approx. 5000 red Cobb cards in circulation. The Graded POP report you posted shows 1400.....where are all the other Cobb's ? Yes, there's guys like me that do not get my cards Graded.....I have 4 red Cobb's. And, I know of about 40-50 T206 collections that are un-graded with Cobb's. I am sure there are many more such T206 collections; but, we have to go a long, long way to come up with the difference. Any suggestions....besides saying my calculations are exaggerated ? TED Z

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04-23-2009, 05:33 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI can see you parting with the AMERICAN BEAUTY Cobb....but, why didn't you keep the LENOX ? Let me guess....you got an offer for it that you couldn't refuse ! ! So, what back(s) is(are) on the Red Cobb(s) in your current set(s) ? Hey DAN....email me....tedzan11@comcast.net TED Z

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04-24-2009, 07:46 AM

Posted By: Jim VBInteresting question Ted. I certainly don't know the answer. You would think that more than 28% of the red Cobbs would have been graded by now. Maybe not though.

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04-24-2009, 08:11 AM

Posted By: Frank WakefieldSeems likely that several of them would have been resubmitted... As difficult as it will be for us folks here to accept, there are lots of collectors who either know not, or care not, about this board, the cards those folks have would remain unconsidered in this analysis.

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04-24-2009, 09:54 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisFRANK W and JIM VB I would estimate the population of T206 collectors (and Ty Cobb collectors) are in the 1000's.....worldwide. Many of them are old "dinosaurs" (like me) that have collected these T-cards for 4 (or more) decades. And, have no interest in having them Graded. I have very few graded cards in my various sets (1887-1987). However, I do get Sports cards graded for the purposes of selling them. All that said, I'll apply my old axiom here...."we live in a 1/3 rd world"....therefore, if 1400 red Cobb's are Graded. Then, I speculate that there are another 2800 that are ungraded. And, I don't think the converse (1400 graded while only 700 are ungraded) is true. Also, no one has come up with how many Red Cobb's are Graded by Beckett, GAI, etc., etc. ? Anyhow, just offering my 2 Drachma's to this discussion. T-Rex TED

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04-24-2009, 11:36 AM

Posted By: Scott StifflerBeckett has graded 64 red Cobbs. I don't think GAI has a pop report that you can access -- at least I can't find one. I suspect the number would be rather small.

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04-24-2009, 11:41 AM

Posted By: JimBSorry for my slow response to this thread. I have two T206 red Cobbs: SC 350 Factory 30 2nd Dist. NY, and Ty Cobb brand back. JimB

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04-24-2009, 01:04 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks for your inputs....you have motivated me to add all 30 white-bordered Red Cobb's to this survey. TED Z

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04-24-2009, 01:08 PM

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> ..1....TY COBB back ..0....1910 COUPON back ..0....T213-2 ..0....T213-3 ..0....T214 ..0....T215 T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....4/24/09 Scarcest group...... ..1....BROAD LEAF 460 ..2....DRUM ..1....HINDU (red) ..4....LENOX (black) ..0....UZIT ..3....SOVEREIGN 460 12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 ..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS ..5....CYCLE 460 ..3....EPDG Next toughest group...... ..9....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 ..1....CYCLE 350 ..5....SOVEREIGN 350 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 ..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) ..7....TOLSTOI 13....OLD MILL The easier ones...... ..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 23....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 14....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 27....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 16....POLAR BEAR OK, we have a total of 164 inputs.....we just might attain that 200 figure yet. We are 82% of the way there, and it's looking better. If there are anymore Cobb collectors out there, please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards. And, the only T206 back that has yet to be reported is the UZIT.....does any one have this one ? Until we see a real UZIT....I'll continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> Hey Net54er's....this "card" is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....<img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> TED Z

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04-24-2009, 09:10 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisPlease note that I have expanded this survey to include all 30 backs of the Red Cobb card. I am now taking Red Cobb inputs from these 6 additional white-bordered issues....as well as the 24 - T206 backs. 1910 COUPON T213-2 T213-3 T214 T215 and the unique TY COBB back Thanks for your participation in this over all survey. TED Z

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04-25-2009, 05:31 PM

Posted By: Pennsylvania TedI've received two T213 red Cobb inputs and 4 - T206 red Cobb inputs. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> ..1....TY COBB back ..0....1910 COUPON (Type 1) ..1....T213-2 ..1....T213-3 ..0....T214 ..0....T215 T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....4/25/09 Scarcest group...... ..1....BROAD LEAF 460 ..2....DRUM ..1....HINDU (red) ..4....LENOX (black) ..0....UZIT ..3....SOVEREIGN 460 12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 ..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS ..5....CYCLE 460 ..3....EPDG Next toughest group...... 10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 ..1....CYCLE 350 ..6....SOVEREIGN 350 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 ..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) ..7....TOLSTOI 13....OLD MILL The easier ones...... ..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 23....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 14....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 29....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 16....POLAR BEAR We have a T206 total of 168 inputs....we just might attain that 200 figure yet. We are 84% of the way there, and it's looking better. If there are anymore Cobb collectors out there, please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards. And, the only T206 back that has yet to be reported is the UZIT.....does any one have this one ? Until we see a real UZIT....I'll continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> Hey Net54er's....this "card" is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....<img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> TED Z

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04-30-2009, 10:36 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisOne more round on this survey....let's see how many more red Cobb's can be reported. Since the last update (a week ago), I have received several emails reporting these T206 red Cobb's...... CYCLE 460 PIEDMONT 350 OLD MILL POLAR BEAR SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 TED Z

tedzan

04-30-2009, 05:47 PM

new post testing

tedzan

05-01-2009, 06:07 AM

Adding the the 7 new inputs from prior posts and one more new input.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

..1....TY COBB back
..0....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..1....T213-2
..1....T213-3
..0....T214
..0....T215

T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....5/1/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..1....HINDU (red)
..4....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..6....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..6....SOVEREIGN 350
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..7....TOLSTOI
14....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
25....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
14....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
31....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
17....POLAR BEAR

We have a T206 total of 176 inputs....we just might attain that 200 figure yet. We are 88% of the way there.

Hey you T206 (or Cobb) collectors out there........please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards.

And, the only T206 back that has yet to be reported is the UZIT....does any one have this one ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this "card" is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

TED Z

sando69

05-03-2009, 11:41 PM

after reading your "tale of two doyles" post, i am quite curious to hear what you might have to say about the rea cobb red old mill psa 5 that ended at more than $7000.00... :eek:
does that not seem perhaps a tad overly enthusiastic? :confused:

tedzan

05-04-2009, 07:26 AM

There is no way that anyone can figure out what is in bidder's minds during these auctions. This OLD MILL Cobb
received 30 bids to drive it's price up that high.

While another very sweet-looking Red Cobb (PSA7) with a Sweet Cap 350 back got only 17 bids....sold for 4750.

This does surprise me, as an OLD MILL back is not that rare on a Red Cobb to warrant such a difference.

TED Z

tedzan

05-05-2009, 10:32 AM

Adding 6 new inputs that were emailed to me from Net54 readers.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

..1....TY COBB back
..0....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..1....T213-2
..1....T213-3
..0....T214
..0....T215

T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....5/5/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..0....HINDU (red)
..4....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..6....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..6....SOVEREIGN 350
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..7....TOLSTOI
14....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
28....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
15....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
31....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
19....POLAR BEAR

We have a T206 total of 181 inputs....we just might attain that 200 figure yet. We are 91% of the way there.

Hey you T206 (or Cobb) collectors out there........please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards.

Still haven't seen a UZIT back....does any one have this one....I don't think the Red Cobb was printed with it ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this "card" is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

TED Z

E93

05-05-2009, 11:07 AM

Can't we include the red Hindu from REA?
JimB

Ladder7

05-05-2009, 11:16 AM

Ted,

Sadly, you can add another Sweet Cap 350/30.

tedzan

05-05-2009, 11:35 AM

If you scan back a page (or more) and check out the prior updates, you will find that it had been tallied.

I have now removed it until a 2nd one is reported. Consider me cautious....but, I have to be certain.

Jim....one graded card has already been withdrawn, since it has been deemed suspicious.

TED Z

tedzan

05-07-2009, 03:47 PM

Adding 7 new inputs........thank you Net54er's.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

..1....TY COBB back
..0....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..1....T213-2
..1....T213-3
..0....T214
..0....T215

T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....5/7/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..0....HINDU (red)
..4....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..6....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..6....SOVEREIGN 350
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..7....TOLSTOI
15....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..5....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
30....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
15....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
33....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
20....POLAR BEAR

We have a T206 total of 188 inputs....we just might attain that 200 figure yet. We are 94% of the way there.

Hey you T206 (or Cobb) collectors out there........please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards.

Still haven't seen a UZIT back....does any one have this one....I don't think the Red Cobb was printed with it ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this "card" is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

TED Z

sando69

05-09-2009, 06:07 AM

aren't there TWO broadleaf 460 examples accounted for?
the one in your original entry (you posted a scan of the back),
AND brian e.'s from post #10...?

tedzan

05-09-2009, 05:11 PM

So far, only one BROAD LEAF 460 red Cobb has been reported.

TED Z

tedzan

05-12-2009, 08:56 PM

We could continue this survey till we have 1000 samples and we would not see any significant difference.
The easiest backs would far outnumber the scarcest backs. So, this will be the last "roundabout" (Yes).

Six more new inputs added.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

..1....TY COBB back
..0....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..1....T213-2
..1....T213-3
..0....T214
..0....T215

T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....5/12/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..0....HINDU (red)
..4....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..6....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..6....SOVEREIGN 350
..2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..6....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
..8....TOLSTOI
15....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

32....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
16....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
34....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
20....POLAR BEAR

We have a T206 total of 194 inputs....we just might attain that 200 figure yet. We are 97% of the way there.

Hey you T206 (or Cobb) collectors out there........please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards.

Still haven't seen a UZIT back....does any one have this one....I don't think the Red Cobb was printed with it ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this "card" is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

TED Z

sando69

05-13-2009, 05:11 PM

ted-
it is now time to share my seven heretofore uncounted entries...
carolina brights
lenox
old mill
polar bear
sovereign 460
sweet cap 350 30
tolstoi
congratulations on a highly interesting and successful survey!

tedzan

05-14-2009, 06:09 AM

Thanks for your 7 red Cobb inputs. That is quite a collection....and now, we have attained the 200+ milestone.

I will update the list later today.

TED Z

tedzan

05-14-2009, 06:02 PM

Adding a 1910 Coupon red Cobb and 12 more T206 new inputs......thanks everyone.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1910couponcobb.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

..1....TY COBB back
..1....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..1....T213-2
..1....T213-3
..0....T214
..0....T215

T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....5/14/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..0....HINDU (red)
..5....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..4....SOVEREIGN 460
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..7....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..6....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..6....SOVEREIGN 350
..2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..7....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
..9....TOLSTOI
16....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

33....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
18....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
36....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
22....POLAR BEAR

We have a T206 total of 206 inputs.......BINGO....we have finally exceeded 200+ red Cobb's. I'm proud of all
of you that participated in this survey.

But, still waiting to see a UZIT back....does any one have this one ? Perhaps, the Red Cobb was not printed
with it ? ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this card is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

TED Z

sando69

05-21-2009, 10:42 PM

this thread needs a jump start, so...
ted-
please add another sweet cap 460 factory 42 to the list.

furthermore, is it not perhaps time to discuss tweeking the scarcity list somewhat?
i would even suggest adding at least one more category...

nearly impossible.....broadleaf, drum, hindu, uzit
scarce.....................carolina brights, cycle 460, el principe de gales, lenox, sovereign 460
tougher...................american beauty, cycle 350, p 460/42, sovereign 350, sc 350/25, sc 460/25-42-42 op, tolstoi
easy.......................old mill, p 460/25, polar bear, sc 460/30
easiest....................p 350, sc 350/30 (since these two backs account for over 38% of all red cobbs surveyed, do they not deserve their own "common" category?)

tedzan

05-25-2009, 06:59 PM

Thanks for your input....I thought this thread had vanished.

But, since you bumped it back, I will update it tomorrow, as I have 10 more new inputs to add to this survey.
And, I'll give your advice some consideration.

TED Z

E93

05-25-2009, 07:17 PM

Why is Piedmont 460 Factory 42 listed in the "scarcest" group when the survey shows it is much more common than all but one of the backs in the next easier category?
JimB

tedzan

05-26-2009, 07:03 AM

You guys are picky, picky.....but, I'll tell you what....I will modify the "scarcity" levels when I update this survey
later today.

Thanks for your suggestions.

TED Z

tedzan

05-26-2009, 03:13 PM

Nine new T206 red Cobb inputs......thanks everyone.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1910couponcobb.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

..1....TY COBB back
..1....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..1....T213-2
..1....T213-3
..0....T214
..0....T215

T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....5/26/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..0....HINDU (red)
..5....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..4....SOVEREIGN 460
..7....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..6....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..6....SOVEREIGN 350
..3....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
..9....TOLSTOI

The easier ones......

16....OLD MILL
19....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
10....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30

The easiest ones......

34....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
38....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
24....POLAR BEAR

We have a T206 total of 217 inputs.......BINGO....we have finally exceeded 200+ red Cobb's. I'm proud of all
of you that participated in this survey.

But, still waiting to see a UZIT back....does any one have this one ? Perhaps, the Red Cobb was not printed
with it ? ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this card is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

TED Z

B O'Brien

05-26-2009, 04:38 PM

I currently have a Tolstoi Red Cobb.
Thanks,
Bob

sando69

06-25-2009, 11:56 PM

well, ted... it's been a month.
do you have any survey updates for us?

sreader3

06-26-2009, 12:28 AM

The percentage of Cobb (Red) examples with the Piedmont 42 back appears to exceed by a large margin the overall percentage of 350/460 subjects that bear the Piedmont 42 reverse. I have noticed this trend for years, but can't explain it. I would caution against modifying any back scarcity rankings based on a Cobb (Red) survey; Cobb (Red) seems to be an outlier when it comes to Piedmont 42.

tedzan

06-26-2009, 10:31 AM

MARK S

Ahh.....funny that you should ask.....just the other day, I tallied up all the Red Cobb's I have seen since this thread
was last up on the board.
Thanx for kicking up this Cobb survey.

SCOT R

You observed....."The percentage of Cobb (Red) examples with the Piedmont 42 back appears to exceed by a large
margin the overall percentage of 350/460 subjects that bear the Piedmont 42 reverse. I have noticed this trend for
years, but can't explain it."

The Red portrait Cobb was American Lithographic's "signature picture" for its white-bordered cards. Many of the 30
various Tobacco advertising backs, that it exists with, were double (or triple) printed. With Cobb leading the Major
Leagues with .377, .385 and .420 in 1909, 1910 and 1911, respectively......the Red Cobb was the "chase card" of
the 1910-1917 era.

I will be updating this survey today.

TED Z

tedzan

06-26-2009, 11:57 AM

Hey guy and gals....Does anyone have a Red HINDU or a UZIT....T206 red Cobb....to report here ? ?

UPDATED upon request to include Red Cobb new inputs from 5/26 to 6/26 across all the 30 T-advertising backs

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1910couponcobb.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Red Cobb....UPDATED survey....6/26/09

..1....TY COBB back
..1....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..2....T213-2
..3....T213-3
..0....T214
..0....T215

T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....6/26/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..0....HINDU (red)
..5....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..4....SOVEREIGN 460
..7....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..7....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..8....SOVEREIGN 350
..4....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..6....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
..9....TOLSTOI

The easier ones......

20....OLD MILL
21....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
15....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30

The easiest ones......

52....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
47....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
20....POLAR BEAR

We now have a T206 total of 266 inputs.

But, still waiting to see a UZIT back....does any one have this one ? Perhaps, the Red Cobb was not printed
with it ? ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this card is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

TED Z

Sterling Sports Auctions

06-26-2009, 02:16 PM

Maybe I missed it in the thread but why is there no AB 460 possible?

Also, Is it possible that the Piedmont 42's, were printed on one or sheet with the Cobb double or triple printed? This would explain why there is so many. If there was 2 different print runs (350/460 and 460 only) and they were double printed this would actually make a 4 to 1 ratio on them.

Lee

tedzan

06-26-2009, 03:03 PM

Re..P460/42, in prior post here I noted that I strongly feel that the Red Cobb was doubled-printed with this back.

Re..AB 460
None of the 6 super-prints (of which the Red Cobb is one) are found with the AB 460 back. These 6 cards were first
printed in the 350-only Series with the AB 350 (Frame) back. Subsequently, Amer. Litho. extended these 6 subjects
into the 460 Series.

Since they were initially printed with the AB 350 (Frame) back, they cannot exist with an AB 350 (No Frame) nor an
AB 460 (No Frame) backs.

TED Z

rman444

06-26-2009, 04:10 PM

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2009/169.html

sando69

06-27-2009, 06:53 PM

wow... an increase of 49 inputs in just one month!
you must have been scouring ebay for data.
thanks again for all the work you have done on this and for sharing it with us.
personally, i just love this thread!
noticed that the total number of polar bear subjects has been reduced by 4, to 20...
if this is accurate, would those numbers not suggest that p350 & sc 350/30 do, in fact, deserve their own "easiest" category, and that polar bear should be included with the "easier" backs that exhibit similar totals?

jmk59

06-27-2009, 07:31 PM

Straight from the orchard where they grow these things, I would like to report a Red Cobb with SC 350/30. Sorry nothing more exotic. Maybe some unknown owner will ring in from Timbuktu with an Uzit. ;)

J

camlov2

06-27-2009, 08:32 PM

I have seen a handful of threads regarding certain cards and their backs....

one question, Does it make sense to count cards that the owner no longer has?
Couldn't these cards have been passed to another Net54 member and be counted twice?

I am new to the boards so I don't know how much turnover there might be within the group.

tedzan

06-28-2009, 06:55 AM

Thanks for catching the POLAR BEAR discrepancy. There were 5 new Red Cobb's with the PB back in the latest tally,
which raised the total to 29. I must have typed the "0" key instead of the "9" key when I inputted this data.

The easiest ones........UPDATED 6/28/09

53....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
47....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
29....POLAR BEAR

TED Z

tedzan

06-28-2009, 07:20 AM

Thanks for your input of the Sweet Caporal 350/30

My guess is that Peter Lorre or Sidney Greenstreet from Casablanca will chime in with that elusive UZIT back.
Until then........

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this card is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

tedzan

06-28-2009, 07:33 AM

You asked......
"Couldn't these cards have been passed to another Net54 member and be counted twice?"

I have diligently taken measures to avoid any double-counting of Red Cobb's. Therefore, I am 99% certain
that this has not occurred in this survey.

But, if I'm off by 1% here....that amounts to only 2.6 cards that have been double-counted. I consider this
an acceptable margin of error.

TED Z

tedzan

06-28-2009, 07:43 AM

Hey guy and gals....Does anyone have a Red HINDU or a UZIT....T206 red Cobb....to report here ? ?

UPDATED upon request to include Red Cobb new inputs from 5/26 to 6/26 across all the 30 T-advertising backs

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1910couponcobb.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Red Cobb....UPDATED survey....6/28/09

..1....TY COBB back
..1....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..2....T213-2
..3....T213-3
..1....T214
..0....T215

T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....6/28/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..0....HINDU (red)
..5....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..4....SOVEREIGN 460
..7....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..7....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..8....SOVEREIGN 350
..4....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..6....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
..9....TOLSTOI

The easier ones......

20....OLD MILL
21....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
15....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30

The easiest ones......

53....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
47....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
29....POLAR BEAR

We now have a T206 total of 266 inputs.

But, still waiting to see a UZIT back....does any one have this one ? Perhaps, the Red Cobb was not printed
with it ? ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this card is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

TED Z

BobbyVCP

06-28-2009, 12:05 PM

Just wanted to let you know that at VCP we have added more back sets to track. Before listed as a common back but now has it's own set are..

American Beauty Frame
American Beauty No Frame
EPDG
Polar Bear
Old Mill
Soveriegn
Tolstoi

Right now all live listings are showing up under the new sets. We are in the process of moving the historical data from the old listing and sorting and sending it to the correct place.

I think there should be good information for you to use.

tedzan

06-28-2009, 02:42 PM

....is the first Victory Cobb and it has been tallied.

Thanks Jim,

TED Z

sando69

06-28-2009, 03:45 PM

this will be extremely helpful!
the sole suggestion i would add, would be to split sovereign into two separate backs, 350 and 460, as you have already done with cycle.

BobbyVCP

06-28-2009, 04:11 PM

I would agree and wanted to break up the sovereign backs but it is not designated on the slabs. And there are more sovereign back for sale online then any of the others. And lastly there is just to many times that the seller does not post an image of the back to reference.

tedzan

06-28-2009, 07:00 PM

I appreciate what you are saying about many of the slabbed or un-slabbed Sovereign cards that appear on ebay. Obviously,
the only Graded Co. that you can tell which Series a Sovereign card is in (from the front), is an SGC graded one.

The way around this dilemma is to simply cross-check the given T206 card with the 48 Subjects listed in the 460-only series.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that it is a Sovereign 460. There are 2 No-Prints....Kleinow (Boston) and Smith (Chi & Bos)
were never printed with Sovereign 460 backs. So, to begin with, there are 46 Sovereign's in the 460 series.

Furthermore, the grand total of cards that were printed with Sovereign 460 backs are....52 = 46 (460-only) + 6 Super-Prints

Mark is correct that the Sovereign 460 cards are considerably tougher than the other 355 cards (150 & 350 series) in this set.
And, the 6 super-prints are extremely tough to find with the Sovereign 460 back.

TED Z

sando69

06-28-2009, 07:40 PM

do you find it as amusing as i, that discussing the relative scarcity of the red cobb sovereign 460 back, is exactly how this thread (or it's immediate predecessor) originated?

tedzan

06-29-2009, 01:33 PM

You asked......
"do you find it as amusing as I, that discussing the relative scarcity of the red cobb sovereign 460 back,
is exactly how this thread originated?"

Actually, I find it AMAZING....back in February, you and I were discussing the relative scarcity of the Red
Cobb with a Sovereign 460 back. And, now look where we have arrived in this thread......truly amazing !

Unraveling the mysteries of The Monster is what it's all about.....thanks to everyone who participated.

Thanks again, ole buddy

T-Rex TED

sando69

06-29-2009, 08:42 PM

now look where we have arrived in this thread......
Unraveling the mysteries of The Monster is what it's all about
ted-
i could not agree more!
and, what an entertaining journey it is!
btw- i can confirm (thanks to bb card exchange) that the sovereign that sold tonite on ebay with no back scan (gai 3) is also a 350.

tedzan

06-30-2009, 06:09 AM

"And, the beat goes on"......

Nine more Red Cobb inputs will be tallied later today.

T-Rex TED

tedzan

06-30-2009, 07:21 AM

These three T206 backs have yet to be confirmed......anyone here have any of these ?

BROAD LEAF 350

Red HINDU

UZIT

NOTE......The Red Cobb was not printed with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 back.

__________________________________________________ _________________________

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1910couponcobb.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Red Cobb....UPDATED survey....6/30/09

..1....TY COBB back
..1....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..2....T213-2
..3....T213-3
..1....T214
..0....T215

T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....6/30/09

Scarcest group......

..0....BROAD LEAF 350
..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..7....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..7....CYCLE 460
..2....DRUM
..3....EPDG
..0....HINDU (red)
..5....LENOX (black)
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..4....SOVEREIGN 460
..0....UZIT

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (frame)
..1....CYCLE 350
..9....SOVEREIGN 350
..4....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..6....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
..9....TOLSTOI

The easier ones......

20....OLD MILL
22....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
17....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30

The easiest ones......

57....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
48....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
29....POLAR BEAR

We now have a T206 total of 275 inputs.

But, still waiting to see a UZIT back ? ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this card is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

T-Rex TED

Rob D.

06-30-2009, 08:10 AM

Ted,

Not sure if this is the type of confirmation you're seeking. From REA's 2009 auction:

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2009/169.html

tedzan

06-30-2009, 08:35 AM

Rob D

You are the 4th post regarding this particular Cobb. And, I will repeat my prior response......

I have been aware of this particular Red HINDU Cobb; however, there have been some questions raised about this
card by two veteran T206 collectors.

I'm waiting for a 2nd red Cobb with a Red HINDU back to emerge, before I'm confident about this F/B combination.

Four of the 6 super-prints have been confirmed with Red HINDU backs (Chance, both Chase's, and Evers). But, the
Red Cobb and Matty (dark cap) have not been confirmed with Red HINDU backs.

TED Z

Rob D.

06-30-2009, 09:29 AM

Sorry, TED.

Next time I'll make sure to READ THROUGH all 170-plus previous posts.

My bad.

tedzan

07-01-2009, 09:39 AM

You noted......
"I can confirm (thanks to bb card exchange) that the sovereign that sold tonite on ebay with no back scan (gai 3) is also a 350."

Thanks for checking out that Sovereign Cobb. I noticed it on ebay, and was curious as to what Series back it had. I have added
it to the tally.

Indeed, the Sovereign 460 red Cobb is extremely tough to find. I have found that the 5 other Super-Prints (Chance, both Chase's,
Evers and Mathewson) with the Sovereign 460 back, while tough to find, are more available than the Cobb.

I'm not sure I understand this ?

TED Z

tedzan

07-02-2009, 07:08 PM

These three T206 backs have yet to be confirmed......anyone here have any of these ?

BROAD LEAF 350

Red HINDU

UZIT

NOTE......The Red Cobb was not printed with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 back.

__________________________________________________ _________________________

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1910couponcobb.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Red Cobb....UPDATED survey....7/2/09

..1....TY COBB back
..1....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..2....T213-2
..3....T213-3
..1....T214
..0....T215

T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....7/2/09

Scarcest group......

..0....BROAD LEAF 350
..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..7....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..7....CYCLE 460
..2....DRUM
..3....EPDG
..0....HINDU (red)
..5....LENOX (black)
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..4....SOVEREIGN 460
..0....UZIT

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (frame)
..1....CYCLE 350
..9....SOVEREIGN 350
..6....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..7....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..2....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
10....TOLSTOI

The easier ones......

22....OLD MILL
25....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
17....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30

The easiest ones......

60....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
49....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
29....POLAR BEAR

Thanks to Net54 readers for providing their inputs. With these and several new listings on ebay,
we now have a T206 total of 289 inputs.

But, still waiting to see a UZIT back ? ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this card is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

T-Rex TED

tedzan

07-13-2009, 03:17 PM

OK folks, final update on this survey. I'm reprising this survey for those new members who have not seen it;
and, for all that might be interested in this most popular white-bordered Tobacco card.

Twelve new Red Cobb's have been reported to bring this survey up to 301 samples of the T206 red Cobb. A
new PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 input is included....we now have tallied 13 unique inputs of this rare back.

__________________________________________________ _________________________

These three T206 backs have yet to be confirmed......anyone here have any of these ?

BROAD LEAF 350

Red HINDU

UZIT

NOTE......The Red Cobb was NOT printed with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 back.

__________________________________________________ _________________________

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1910couponcobb.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Red Cobb....UPDATED survey....7/13/09

..1....TY COBB back
..1....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..2....T213-2
..3....T213-3
..1....T214
..0....T215

T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....7/13/09

Scarcest group......

..0....BROAD LEAF 350
..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..7....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..7....CYCLE 460
..2....DRUM
..3....EPDG
..0....HINDU (red)
..5....LENOX (black)
13....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..4....SOVEREIGN 460
..0....UZIT

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (frame)
..1....CYCLE 350
..9....SOVEREIGN 350
..6....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..8....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..2....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..3....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
10....TOLSTOI

The easier ones......

22....OLD MILL
27....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
17....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30

The easiest ones......

62....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
51....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
31....POLAR BEAR

Thanks to Net54 readers for providing their inputs. With these and several new listings on ebay,
we now have a T206 total of 301 inputs.

But, still waiting to see a UZIT back ? ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this card is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

T-Rex TED