E121 Series of 80 rarities survey [Archive]

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04-18-2009, 09:21 AM

Posted By: brianpAfter collecting these cards for a while and watching (somewhat sporadically) when they come up for sale, I am convinced that some of the variations listed in the catalogs on this set and the E121 Series of 120 set are either incredibly tough to come by or non-existent. I have come up with a list of cards in both sets (the E121-120 Series list will be posted separately) that I have not personally have seen, or have seen but forgotten (ah, the mind is a terrible thing to erase), and would appreciate hearing back, either here or by email, from collectors on any they might have or have positively seen for sale. I will post and update my findings here when I can squeeze out the time. Keep in mind that most of the cards listed below are variations, so all the noted information about the card needs to be exact. List of E121 Series 80 that I have not verified yet: G.C. Alexander (arms above head) Frank Baker (not J.Franklin Baker) Cecil Causey Ty Cobb (throwing, Face Front) "Phil" Douglas (must have quotation marks) Wm. Fewster Alexander Gaston (with position) Alexander Gaston (no position) Walter Holke (throwing) Waite Hoyt Miller Huggins Walter Johnson (throwing) Walter Johnson (hands at chest) Bill Killifer (batting) Roger Peckinpaugh (spelled correctly) Eppa Rixey, Jr. Robert Roth George Ruth (throwing) Babe Ruth (throwing) "Babe" Ruth (throwing) "Slim" Sallee (throwing w/ball) Fred Schupp (not 'Ferd') Robert Shawkey Pat Shea (no quotation marks) George Sisler (throwing) Tris Speaker (batting-small projection) Fred Toney (both feet down) Bob Veach (arms folded) Aaron Ward Any help you can give would be appreciated. Brian P.

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04-18-2009, 10:15 AM

Posted By: Mark LMy collection of E121's is separated in two places right now, so I will have to get back to you later this weekend for a complete tally. But I have at hand in the series of 80 Walter Holke throwing, Eppa Rixey Jr (not the action shot), and Robert Shawkey. More to follow. ps the Shawkey has the e121 series 102 font on the bottom of the reverse.

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04-18-2009, 12:11 PM

Posted By: Bobby BinderCheck here <a href="http://www.vintagecardprices.com/set-profile/index.php?set_id=71&limit=135" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.vintagecardprices.com/set-profile/index.php?set_id=71&limit=135</a> Again the green $ icon represents conformed sales.

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04-18-2009, 12:12 PM

Posted By: brianpThanks Mark for the response, along with Bobby have been able to update the list to the following: List of E121 Series 80 that I have not verified yet: G.C. Alexander (arms above head) Frank Baker (not J.Franklin Baker) Cecil Causey Ty Cobb (throwing, Face Front) "Phil" Douglas (must have quotation marks) Wm. Fewster Waite Hoyt Miller Huggins Walter Johnson (throwing) Roger Peckinpaugh (spelled correctly) Robert Roth "Babe" Ruth (throwing) "Slim" Sallee (throwing w/ball) Fred Schupp (not 'Ferd') Pat Shea (no quotation marks) Tris Speaker (batting-small projection) Bob Veach (arms folded) Thanks again, Brian

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04-18-2009, 12:21 PM

Posted By: Kevin Andrews<img src="http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa16/old-baseball/E121-80013-CecilCauseyRareBack.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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04-18-2009, 12:29 PM

Posted By: DaveI sold a Roth series of 80 and a Peckinpaugh 80 spelled correctly last year after owning them for some time. I still have scans if you want them but since I don't own them anymore I prefer not to post. The Roth was in great shape for a GAI 2 and I've personally never seen another one. It had some glue residue on it but no creases and 4 sharp corners. The Peckinpaugh was in an SGC 60 holder and ended with the rarer "line of eighty" variation. It was purchased by one of the whales. Hope that helps.

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04-18-2009, 12:32 PM

Posted By: Double-P-Enterprises<img src="http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo49/gustafsonp/ruthe121f.jpg" alt="[linked image]">?t=1235253856 <img src="http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo49/gustafsonp/ruthe121b.jpg" alt="[linked image]">?t=1235253896

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04-18-2009, 12:37 PM

Posted By: Rhett YeakleyBrtian, nothing against Bobby's site but I wouldn't count on all those pictures he provided actually being from the Series of 80. Several are 120 cards posted in the wrong spot...fairly easy to see when they are not pitchers and catchers but impossible to tell if they are those positions. I took a quick look and the Frisch, Hooper and probably several others are all 120 Series cards. -Rhett

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04-18-2009, 02:10 PM

Posted By: AnonymousHere are three of the cards you seek, but not for sale: <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1240085329.JPG" alt="[linked image]"> I sold a Huggins back in 2007 with "eighty" as the last word in the first line. These just have eighty in the first line.

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04-18-2009, 03:43 PM

Posted By: Kevin AndrewsBrian - I see the Alexander Gaston didn't appear on your list. Have you confirmed it or are you assuming it doesn't exist?

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04-18-2009, 06:19 PM

Posted By: brianpThanks Dave, Kevin + Double-P...here is the updated list: List of E121 Series 80 that I have not verified yet: G.C. Alexander (arms above head) Frank Baker (not J.Franklin Baker) Ty Cobb (throwing, Face Front) "Phil" Douglas (must have quotation marks) Wm. Fewster Alexander Gaston (with position) Alexander Gaston (no position) Miller Huggins Walter Johnson (throwing) "Slim" Sallee (throwing w/ball) Fred Schupp (not 'Ferd') Pat Shea (no quotation marks) Tris Speaker (batting-small projection) Kevin---I based my list on the old Lew Lipset Encyclopedia...and hadn't noticed the Gaston additions. Thanks for pointing it out--I have added them to the above list. When I have time will check over/compare lists to make sure I am not missing anything else. Rhett--I noticed the mismatched cards on the VCP site (first time checking, a nice site) and only eliminated ones I could figure out based upon the front. Thanks. Brian

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04-18-2009, 08:24 PM

Posted By: Jeff SchwarzBrian, Would love to see a final checklist when you get it. Here are a couple on your list. This has been an elusive set for me also. <img src="http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh238/jeffschwarz/E121HugginsSallee.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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04-19-2009, 12:08 AM

Posted By: Kevin Saucier Just for kick's. Here's the blank backed ghost of Zach Wheat: <img src="http://www.alteredcards.com/images/e121ghost.jpeg" alt="e121ghost.jpeg"> ------------------------------ <a href="http://www.AlteredCards.com" rel="nofollow">www.AlteredCards.com</a> - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples

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04-19-2009, 12:15 AM

Posted By: Rhett YeakleyKevin, that was a Pep Young (not Zach Wheat) <img src="http://www.starsofthediamond.com/e121young80b.JPG" alt="[linked image]"> -Rhett

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04-19-2009, 12:37 AM

Posted By: brianpThanks Jeff for two more. Here is the latest updated list--anyone else have more to subtract or add to this list? List of E121 Series 80 that I have not verified yet: G.C. Alexander (arms above head) Frank Baker (not J.Franklin Baker) Ty Cobb (throwing, Face Front) "Phil" Douglas (must have quotation marks) Wm. Fewster Alexander Gaston (with position) Alexander Gaston (no position) Walter Johnson (throwing) Fred Schupp (not 'Ferd') Pat Shea (no quotation marks) Tris Speaker (batting-small projection) Thanks again everyone, Brian

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04-20-2009, 10:34 PM

Posted By: Ron DiamondI've been collecting this set for over 15 years. I believe I have a COMPLETE set(other than a number of the 'variations'). The catalog companies as well as PSA ignore me, however, there has NEVER been an Alex Gaston E121 series of 80 1921 EVERY SEEN. If you go to Google, there are NO references that VERIFY such a card. Over a billion references on Google and NONE to this card! It doesn't exist. I've been to over 500 shows(including a number of national's) and I monitor the net every day and there is no such a player in this set. I have contacted the old timers and NONE have every seen such a card. Bottom line. Ron Diamond R.Ph.(retired)

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04-20-2009, 10:39 PM

Posted By: Jeff SchwarzAwesome, but what about the rest of the cards on the list? Do they exist in your set?

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04-20-2009, 11:07 PM

Posted By: Ken McMillanI own the Roth Dave speaks of in the Above thread only I had it crossed over to SGC to match the rest of my set. It is now a SGC good 30 and is awesome with the rest of my E121 Yankees and giants. My only regret is that I didn't buy the Peckinpaugh from Dave when I had the chance. Thought I might find one at the national and I was wrong. Hind site is always 20/20. Kmac

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04-21-2009, 01:42 PM

Posted By: brian pThought I would include another listing of the E121 Series of 80 cards that possibly do not exist...I have a gut feeling there are still one or more of these that are out there. Here goes: List of E121 Series 80 that I have not verified yet: G.C. Alexander (arms above head) Frank Baker (not J.Franklin Baker) Ty Cobb (throwing, Face Front) "Phil" Douglas (must have quotation marks) Wm. Fewster Alexander Gaston (with position) Alexander Gaston (no position) Walter Johnson (throwing) Fred Schupp (not 'Ferd') Pat Shea (no quotation marks) Tris Speaker (batting-small projection) Thanks again everyone, Brian

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04-21-2009, 05:40 PM

Posted By: Kevin Saucier"Kevin, that was a Pep Young (not Zach Wheat)" Yep, you are right! Hard to tell when the ghost has no name (LOL). ------------------------------ <a href="http://www.AlteredCards.com" rel="nofollow">www.AlteredCards.com</a> - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples

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04-23-2009, 07:35 AM

Posted By: dan mckeethe Gaston card exist in this set?

wrapperguy

08-08-2009, 10:00 PM

Sorry to bring this up after a while, but I bought a Johnson Throwing at the National and have heard of a Fewster just purchased. That leaves 9 on the list of unconfirmed. Can anyone verify their existence?

Mark

08-08-2009, 10:21 PM

I really appreciate you keeping this alive. I haven't found any of the no shows, but I have one more place to look.

old-baseball

08-09-2009, 05:21 AM

Here's the Fewster card Jeff was talking about.

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=16&pictureid=730

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=16&pictureid=731

sreader3

08-09-2009, 10:39 AM

Great thread. I have noticed that several of the cards that were thought to be nonexistent but have been revealed on this thread are of the type where the first line on the back ends in "eighty" (not "eighty of the"). I wonder if the reason that these subjects are more difficult is that they can ONLY be found with the ends in "eighty" back (i.e. DO NOT EXIST with the more common ends in "eighty of the" back).

Thoughts?

Mark

08-09-2009, 06:09 PM

That sounds like it could be a factor in at least some of the rarities. My Shawkey, for example, has the "ends in eighty" top line.

sreader3

08-09-2009, 06:41 PM

I once owned Aaron Ward--who was on the original "doubtful" list--and he, too had the ends in "eighty" back. Seems like a lot of the tougher cards in this set might not be available with the more common ends in "eighty of the"; hence, their relative scarcity.

brianp-beme

08-09-2009, 08:57 PM

Thanks for all the additional updates Mr. Wrapper guy and Kevin. That was a conclusion that I came to myself...that the ends in eighty variations may be a factor in these tougher to come by and still unverified cards. I will update the list tomorrow of unverified shortly.

Brian

wrapperguy

08-09-2009, 08:58 PM

Talked to Rhett Yeakley about this at the National and that was his opinion also.

brianp-beme

08-10-2009, 08:01 AM

G.C. Alexander (arms above head)
Frank Baker (not J.Franklin Baker)
Ty Cobb (throwing, Face Front)
"Phil" Douglas (must have quotation marks)
Alexander Gaston (with position)
Alexander Gaston (no position)
Fred Schupp (not 'Ferd')
Pat Shea (no quotation marks)
Tris Speaker (batting-small projection)

Any of the above out there?

Brian

Bob Lemke

08-11-2009, 03:10 PM

If the cards noted on the latest list are not confirmed by the time the 2011 Standard Catalog deadlines, I will change their listings to "Existence now questioned" for a couple of years, then drop them.

This forum and its participants are invaluable for this type of research.

Thanks to all!

rhettyeakley

08-11-2009, 05:28 PM

I don't have my spreadsheet in front of me (I'm at work), but I am fairly certain that I have owned the Pat Shea (both with and without quotes) before. Also, the Frank Baker will probably surface as I know that he exists as "Frank" on his Gassler's card, which coincided with at least a portion of the E121 Series of 80 as to when they were printed.
-Rhett