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03-04-2008, 11:03 PM
Posted By: <b>Andrew</b><p>I won it recently: goes nicely next to the first football card and very early Hockey card<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/littletreasures/cards/websize/T51%20Williams.jpg"><br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/littletreasures/cards/websize/1888%20Beecher.jpg"><br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/littletreasures/cards/websize/9Scan0001.jpg"><br><br>"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

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03-05-2008, 04:08 PM
Posted By: <b>ramram</b><p>What year is the basketball "card"?<br /><br />Rob M.

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03-05-2008, 05:41 PM
Posted By: <b>Andrew</b><p>Hi Rob, <br /><br />It's from the 1910-11 T51 College Series Murad set. The image was also used for the T6 premium set.<br><br>"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

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03-06-2008, 07:22 PM
Posted By: <b>Carl Lamendola</b><p>I believe their is a non-sport basketball card that pre-dates the T51/T6 ,,,<br />If I get a chance I'll post a scan. <br />

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03-06-2008, 08:51 PM
Posted By: <b>Andrew</b><p>Not at all, it's not like I sunk a fortune into the card. Is there value/notoriety in being the second oldest basketball card? :--)<br /><br />Seriously, I'm curious to see your scan. I've seen the Murad refernced at least three different times as being the first.<br><br>"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

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03-06-2008, 09:50 PM
Posted By: <b>Carl Lamendola</b><p>Is this really a basketball or non-sports card. I believe the Hamilton King Girls contains the first basketball card. I guess she was ahead of her time (WNBA).<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1204861655.JPG">

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03-07-2008, 12:44 AM
Posted By: <b>Andrew</b><p>Awesome contender for being the first. If the Murad can be considered the first, then so can the gal. Very cool, let me know if you want to part with it. :--)<br><br>"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

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03-07-2008, 08:57 AM
Posted By: <b>Pat Vesper</b><p>The first "accepted" card was the T6 Murad card (of which there are two variatons). There were four B-51 basketball cards, plus two additional cards if you consider that two of the universities issued in both the 1st and 2nd series. The T-6 is generally considered to pre-date the B-51 cards.<br /><br />The Hamilton King Premiums are great and are also from the 1910ish time period, however if you wish to consider these are the first unoffocial cards, then you must consider the 1899 Enameline Boy doll/card. This was miss termed the "Emameline Girl" on Jeff Mullen's website - one of many errors.<br /><br />Also, we should throw in the little known "Baines Netball Card", which "could" have been produced in 1897...but more likely arrived in the 1902-04 time period.<br /><br />...and don't forget the amazing B-33 basketball series from the 1910-13 range. They are amazing and tough to acquire.<br /><br />If you would like images of any of these items, just drop me a message. I love all of these items - great items in our hobby.<br /><br />Regards, Pat

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03-07-2008, 05:37 PM
Posted By: <b>Carl Lamendola</b><p>I do not own the card you see - That one belonged to Jefferson Burdick.<br />Basketball and Football suffer from the same problem....there ain't much to pick from pre-1920s...but its fun looking.

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03-07-2008, 08:46 PM
Posted By: <b>Andrew</b><p>Great info Pat! Did you mean B-51 or T-51? Anyway, I'd love to see those scans if you have a chance. <br><br>"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

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03-08-2008, 05:34 PM
Posted By: <b>Pat Vesper</b><p>Oops...I meant T-51. I've attached an image of my Hamilton King Leather and B33/B16 basketball felt collection. Looking at the bottom of one image, you can also see the Enameline boy from 1899 and the two S23 basketball silks from the 1912-15 time period. Thanks, Pat <br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1205019039.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1205018938.JPG">

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03-12-2008, 09:02 PM
Posted By: <b>Alan Elefson</b><p>Pat-<br /> Thank you for your information on the vintage basketball pencil box thread I had on this site. The one you showed is spectacular! <br />Pat and Everyone Else-<br /> Of the small Murads, which were issued first the second edition of the first series (see scans below) or the first printing (presumably of the second series (see second set of scans). I will try to pick up a first edition version of the Williams card, but because I have two right now, I am curious as to which of the two was issued first?<br /> Also, slightly off topic for this board, but is the athlete card (State Unniversity of Kentucky) thought to be a baseball player or just a generic athlete (I am guessing the latter). <br />Thanks in advance for any help,<br />Alan Elefson<br />aelefson@hotmail.com<br /><img src="http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/aelefson/basketballmurad1.jpg"><br /><img src="http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/aelefson/basketballmurad2.jpg"><br /><img src="http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/aelefson/xaviermurad1.jpg"><br /><img src="http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/aelefson/xaviermurad2.jpg">

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06-06-2008, 03:11 AM
Posted By: <b>Andrew</b><p>This guy is touting this card as the first basketball, but I thought it was the Williams College card? Then again, if they're from the same set, then why would one be considered the first, but not the other?<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/1910-MURAD-LUTHER-COLLEGE-FIRST-BASKETBALL-CARD_W0QQitemZ310056865195QQihZ021QQcategoryZ4237Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/1910-MURAD-LUTHER-COLLEGE-FIRST-BASKETBALL-CARD_W0QQitemZ310056865195QQihZ021QQcategoryZ4237Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem</a><br /><br />Ebay: 310056865195<br><br>"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

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06-06-2008, 12:57 PM
Posted By: <b>Pat Vesper</b><p>If we are considering the Murad card to be the first card, then the "large" Williams card - the T6 - would be the first card. The Luther card and the Williams shown earlier in this thread are part of the smaller Murad set and not considered the first card. They are however from the same year. I hope this helps. Pat

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06-08-2008, 01:33 AM
Posted By: <b>Andrew</b><p>Thanks Pat. Are there other basketball cards from the T51 or T6 besides Williams and Luther?<br><br>"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

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06-09-2008, 01:44 AM
Posted By: <b>Pat Vesper</b><p>I was mistaken...please read below.<br /><br />In terms of T51 cards, there are 4 schools - Williams, Xavier, Northwestern, and Luther. Williams and Northwest have a 1st and 2nd series card, so there are 6 cards including these variations.<br /><br />The T6 card (larger cards) come with two variations of the Williams card.<br /><br />Also, I'd like to correct myself. <br /><br />I have an old Murad coupon from 1910 that states, "On receipt of 15 of these coupons, one of which is packed in each box of "Murad" Cigarettes we will mail you, postpaid a handsome lithographed picture of one of our prominent College Series, cabinet sized (5x8 inches), whose names appear on the reverse side of this coupon. <br /><br />Down below it mentions that the offer expires June 30, 1911.<br /><br />That said, the smaller T51 cards did come first - followed by the larger T6 cards.<br /><br />I never read that coupon until tonight.<br /><br />Regards, Pat<br /><br /> <br /><br /> <br />

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06-10-2008, 02:36 PM
Posted By: <b>Andrew</b><p>Great info Pat. So, I've convinced myself (but easily refutable by info on this thread) that I have the first basketball card. :--)<br><br>"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

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10-04-2008, 06:15 PM
Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>In my opinion this may be the first depiction of basketball on a regular issue. Many collectors are not convinced that the Enamaline trade card is 100% holding a basketball. It is part of a small set issued by Tetlow comprised of Yale-Fencing, Harvard-Rowing, Pennsyvania-Golf and the Princeton-Basketball. It is not a postcard, but is similar in size. Judge for yourself. Email me directly if you have interest in this. Its is beautiful and in nice shape.<br /><br /><img src="http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze4rc89/tetlow.jpg">

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10-04-2008, 07:08 PM
Posted By: <b>Carl Lamendola</b><p>Oops forgot email - clamendo@hotmail.com

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10-07-2008, 06:27 PM
Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Carl...<br /><br />While there is certainly a debate whether the 1899 Enamaline doll is the first "card", there is little debate that most vintage basketball collectors do consider it a basketball item. There is already a football doll in the Enamaline set, and the ball in the image is not a rugby ball. It would be odd to have both a rugby and a football doll in the same set. Plus, it came out during a time when basketball was really spreading across the country.<br /><br />The Tetlow trade card is nice. The set of four cards looks great together. However, I think it is a stretch to call it the first basketball card. It is however a nice early example of a basketball collectable.<br /><br />Regards, Pat <br /><br />

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10-12-2008, 11:49 AM
Posted By: <b>Walter</b><p>Here is a picture of my Enameline Doll card and clearly this is a basketball he is holding.<br /><br /><img src='http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/329189/500enam1a.jpg' width=500 height=1617> <img src='http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/329189/500enam1b.jpg' width=500 height=1633><br /><br /><img src='http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/329189/500enam2a.jpg' width=500 height=1642> <img src='http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/329189/500enam2b.jpg' width=500 height=1642><br><br>Always looking for T59 Flag cards and T113 Types of Nations.<br /><a href="http://www.t59flags.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t59flags.com</a>

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10-17-2008, 07:12 PM
Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>Mostly RPPCs of womens' teams that I won in a mixed PC lot. Any idea where I could get info on their value?<br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc