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11-11-2007, 11:06 AM
Posted By: <b>Jeff S.</b><p>Published Feb. 15th, 1949 - thought you'd all enjoy:<br /><p><br /><img src="http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/ladypaper/LeafBoxingCardsAd-Feb_15_1949.jpg" width="552" height="793"><br /><br />*Edited to correct date in title from '49 to '48

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11-11-2007, 06:02 PM
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>JEFF S<br /><br />Great item......thanks for showing it. As, it confirms my theory that the GRAY cardboard issue<br />of this 1948 Boxing set was released in early 1949.<br /><br />For those unfamiliar with this 1948 set....it was first printed on WHITE cardboard stock....and.<br /> was issued in 1948.<br /><br />Subsequently, later press runs of these Boxing cards and Leaf's 1949 BB and 1949 FB were all<br /> on GRAY cardboard.<br /><br />TED Z

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11-11-2007, 06:09 PM
Posted By: <b>Jeff S.</b><p><a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/526604/thread/1194739569/last-1194739569/Early+Topps+%26amp%3B+Bowman+Non-Sport+Card+Ads" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/526604/thread/1194739569/last-1194739569/Early+Topps+%26amp%3B+Bowman+Non-Sport+Card+Ads</a>...<br />

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11-11-2007, 06:12 PM
Posted By: <b>Jeff S.</b><p>Great info Ted - I don't know much about this set but came across the ad while searching through some things this weekend. Have a few other sport-related ads as well, will try to link soon.

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11-11-2007, 06:12 PM
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Jeff, great piece. This set is one of only two non-baseball card sets I collect.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1194739826.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1194739845.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1194739947.JPG">

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11-13-2007, 06:59 AM
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Here's an example of the difference in the cardboard stock of the two releases of this 1948 issue<br /> <br /><br />..................1948 release................................early 1949 release.................<br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/bjackiefields.jpg"><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />JEFF L<br /><br />If your scan is true....then Tunney and Sugar Ray are of GRAY stock and your Jeffries is printed on WHITE stock ?<br /><br /><br />TED Z

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11-13-2007, 05:41 PM
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Ted, my cards have the following backs:<br /><br />Grey: Dempsy, Leonard, Zale, Johnson, Attell, Loughran, McLarnin, Schmeling, Lewis, Armstrong, Bettina, Cerdan, Montgomery, Louis, Pep, Ross, Fitzsimmons, Tunney, Robinson, Hostak, Carpentier, Steele, Wright, Canzoneri, Coulon, Ambers, Carnera, Sullivan.<br /><br />White: Walker, Jeffries, Mandell, Conn, Corbett, Lesnevich, Willard, Apostoli, Baer.<br /><br />I have Zivic and Sharkey in both backs.

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11-13-2007, 07:11 PM
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Looks like I'm batting 1.000 on guessing the correct cardboard backs. The bright fronts obviously are the clue.<br /><br />My original Leaf cards from 1948 (all 49 cards) were the White cardboard. Many of them were Ex/Mt and some<br /> near Mint. So, where my original FB cards. I wish my original BB cards were as nice.....I guess I just loved the<br /> BB ones more than the others.<br /><br />Anyhow, assuming that all (or most) of your Leaf's are in great shape, your collection so far reflects a typical<br />pattern, in that the Gray cards are more often found in real nice condition. You will find it to be an interesting <br />challenge....try to acquire this set with both backs. Having done this, it was easier for me since I already had<br /> all the White cards.<br /><br />Incidently, if you choose to do this, I might be able to help you, as I have quite a few nice extras.<br /><br />TED Z<br />

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11-23-2007, 02:54 AM
Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>I was curious if anyone has the album described on the backs of these cards that could be obtained by sending in 5 wrappers and 25 cents?<br /><br />Thanks

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11-23-2007, 05:45 AM
Posted By: <b>XanaduNow</b><p>Ted, I was hoping you could provide some empirical evidence as to your grey/white theory. I would appreciate it. Thanks<br /><br />Arthur

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11-23-2007, 01:02 PM
Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>No one caught it yet but that ad touts over 100 cards; the set has 49 skip numbered. I think perhaps they intended to go into other series but sales tanked and they stopped. Or perhaps they were just crooks all the way and touted 100+ cards and skip numbered them to spur sales. Alas, we will never know...

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11-26-2007, 12:17 PM
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>ADAM W<br /><br />I think we do know.....and, as you know Jake LaMotta is card #102......so, their advertising is actually true. But, as we all <br />know LEAF only produced 50 cards. So, they skip-numbered these cards. They did the same for their 1949 BB and FB cards.<br />No big deal....in 1933 Goudey did a similar marketing ploy with their BB cards when they withheld a dozen Low #s until their<br /> November release of their last series of 24 cards (World Series issue).<br /><br />And, as a collector of these 1948 Boxing cards, I can tell you that they were very, very popular, Us kids back then spent a<br /> ton of our pennies buying 100's of these Boxing cards. Hey, we were expecting to find at least 102 cards. After a while, I <br />recall the kids in our neighbor hood comparing cards and we realized that there were no more than 49 to a complete set.<br />From my original collection of these, I recovered 4 - Joe Louis cards, several Jack Dempsey, Kid Chocolate and Tony<br /> Christoforides cards (besides at least a 100 more of the other Boxers).<br /><br />And, as I said in a prior post here....these cards were so popular that Leaf Gum printed up more in early 1949. The proof of <br />this is the availability of these cards on GRAY cardboard. Leaf produced all their sports card using GRAY cardboard in 1949.<br /><br />TED Z

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11-26-2007, 04:04 PM
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>So Ted -- Leaf basically duped kids into buying up more cards as they searched for the elusive cards that never existed? Wow -- what a lousy thing to do to a kid.

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11-26-2007, 05:02 PM
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>No big deal, Jeff.....we were pretty smart 8, 9 and 10 year olds growing up in Hillside (NJ).<br />We figured out their "marketing gimmick" quite quickly. There was one "rich kid" on our block<br />that had about 500 cards ($5.00 worth); and, he shared his info with the rest of us. So, thats<br />how we realized there were only 49 Boxing cards to acquire for the complete run.<br /><br />In the Spring of 1949 it was somewhat tougher for us kids, when the Leaf BB cards were available.<br />They were skip-numbered to #159 (Mizell Platt).....and, the "rich kid" buddy had moved from our<br />neighborhood. So, we were on our own to buy a lot of cards. <br /><br />I became the "rich kid" for a day....when I found a $5 bill in the grass on my way to the store. I <br />bought two boxes (24-count) of Leaf BB from my candy store. These boxes cost me $1.20 each.<br /> And, my friends and I opened the 48 wax packs, which yielded 288 cards. If I recall correctly, I<br /> had 5-6 cards of Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, Ted Williams, JRobby, Stan Musial, etc., etc.<br /><br />TED Z

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11-26-2007, 05:30 PM
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Ted, you grew up a few minutes from where I did -- Clark, NJ (not sure it existed back when you were in Hillside; it's connected to Westfield and Rahway).

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11-26-2007, 06:04 PM
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>I remember Clark very well. It was a very small town when we were kids.<br /><br />By 1981 it was pretty well developed and it was the site of my becoming a BB card dealer. Prior to this BB card show <br />in Clark, I had dabbled at trading and selling my duplicate BB cards.....I was mainly a collector for years. Then, I pur-<br />chased a large collection consisting of 1948-1952 Bowmans and a near complete 1953 Topps set. I set-up at a Show<br /> at the Howard Johnson's, just off the Clark circle.<br /><br />I had a fantastic show that day in Clark and I said this is for me. I followed that success up by getting into the Philly<br />Show in 1981.<br /><br /><br />TED Z

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11-26-2007, 09:25 PM
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Ted, I've been to that HoJo's a million times. Many of them drunk. I'm going back to Clark for the first time in years soon...and will be driving back with my kids to show them the house I grew up in, etc.

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11-26-2007, 10:28 PM
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>ARTHUR<br /><br />I'm not sure what kind of "empirical evidence" you are asking me to provide regarding the Gray/White cardboard issue<br />of these cards ?<br /><br />Other than my actual experience in collecting them in 1948.....and, an excellent memory of these Boxing cards, along<br /> with the 1948 Leaf FB cards, 1949 Leaf BB cards, and 1949 Leaf FB cards.<br /><br />TED Z

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11-26-2007, 10:48 PM
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Well, I hope you are not surprised like I was recently. After attending our 50th High School Reunion in Elizabeth,<br /> we went back to the old neighborhood in Hillside. It was very different. The first change that distressed me was <br />that they cut down most of the huge oak trees that lined both sides of our street. And, finally, our corner house<br />had been drastically remodeled. I guess that old saying is true....."you can't go back".<br /><br />However, two blocks away, Phil Rizzuto's ivy covered English Tudor home with its beautiful gardens surrounding it<br />was still as nice as I remember it.<br /><br />TED Z

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11-28-2007, 07:57 PM
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I'm soon going back to Clark for the first time in about 7 years. Needless to say I wish I could go into my old house but I'd probably be too freaked out.

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11-28-2007, 09:08 PM
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Jeff Torborg lived not too far you just up the road in Mountainside. Being a Mets fan, I thought you might appreciate that.<br />A long time friend of mine lived near him and said that Jeff and his family were really great neighbors.<br /><br />Was Stickball popular in your neighborhood, or Baseball ? In the summer we played Stickball from early morning till our Mom's<br /> called us for dinner. Then, we would go out after dinner and played till nightfall. Occasionally we would get a dozen kids to-<br />gether and we'd choose sides and play hardball. Little League didn't exist back then.<br /><br />TED Z

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12-01-2007, 01:02 PM
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>This auction is going to get plenty of publicity anyway so I doubt I'm telling anybody anything new. Kevin Savage Cards has an auction for the Rocky Graziano on E-bay right now. Is this card from '48 or '49?<br /><br />Peter C.

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12-01-2007, 02:33 PM
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>This card exists only on WHITE cardboard; and therefore, is a 1948 issue. <br /><br />It was printed in the very 1st press run of these 1948 Leaf's and was quickly removed.<br /> And most of the Graziano cards that were printed, were dis-carded. So far, it appears <br />that only a handful were circulated into the marketplace. <br /><br />TED Z

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12-24-2007, 07:23 AM
Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p><a href="http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/latest/rare-boxing-card-sells-for-27-600.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/latest/rare-boxing-card-sells-for-27-600.html</a>