1961 Peters Meats Confusion

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Posted By: <b>Karl</b><p>I don't have one of these in my Killebrew collection yet, but I'm confused as to which &quot;version&quot; I should pursue. The Standard Catalog suggests that the &quot;true&quot; card is the 3rd one pictured below - with the extra inch of border at the top. However, PSA seems to draw no distinction between any of the ways these can be cut, and from what I've seen prices seem to be pretty much the same for 3 of the 4 (all except the full packaging). Any opinions on these cards would be most welcome. Thanks.<br><br><br><img src="http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq110/kmattson40/var1.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><img src="http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq110/kmattson40/var2.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><img src="http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq110/kmattson40/var3.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><img src="http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq110/kmattson40/var4.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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Posted By: <b>JDRUM</b><p>IMO, the grader that gave the top copy an &quot;8&quot; probably had/has no idea what the card looks like in its original form. That could be the only reason/explanation that got a number grade much less an 8. I would say either 3 or 4. HOw rare is the card? If you never ever see it and a copy like the first one comes up then you may have to go with it.

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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>and in my opinion, the first PSA example is a card, the full length and longest version is a complete wiener wrapper, as opposed to a porkette wrapper, and the one in the middle is a Wiener panel, again different than a porkette panel. I love them all.

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Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>It may just be a matter of personal preference, but I would definitely want one with the full yellow border (like example 2). Examples 3 and 4 are great as well, but are more akin to complete packages. I have just one in my collection (Kaat) and it has the yellow border.

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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>if you want the full yellow border, you would probably want the porkette panel. The second example is a trimmed panel, almost certainly from a weiner wrapper.

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Posted By: <b>Anthony N.</b><p>Todd- is there a noticeable difference in scarcity between the weiners and porkettes? I'd heard porkettes were tougher, but couldn't ascertain if that was slightly tougher or considerably tougher.<br>Any thoughts? Were these pretty common in Minn when you were a kid, like Bell Brands were out here?<br>

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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>yes, the porkette wrappers are noticeably scarcer than their wiener counterparts--I would say by 3 to 1. I was only two when these cards came out, so I don't have any real memory of their circulation, although I do recall as a youngster that the wieners themselves were a popular brand. <br>As for the cards, I have seen more complete wrappers available in the last ten years than I did in the preceding twenty, although that could be just due to the wonders of ebay and the Internet. They are still far from common. Curiously, you will rarely see one with staining, and they are often found in unfolded condition, suggesting that many escaped the packing factory without having been put to their purpose. I know that you could obtain them from the company directly, but those few I have seen that you could confirm were obtained in that fashion (through envelope or cover letter) were stapled.<br>For those who haven't seen one, here is a porkette wrapper:<br><img src="http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff265/nolemmings/61petersp22battey2.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br>As you can see, they were wrapped in the other direction than the wieners, probably because the product and packaging as a whole was smaller, and there is no reference to the cards also being available on the wieners.

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Posted By: <b>Karl</b><p>Todd, thanks much for the info and scan. I've never seen the porkette wrapper before - if I ever have the luxury of choosing, it looks like that would be what I'd want. The porkette panel card appears to need no &quot;discretionary&quot; cutting, so the card would have a more natural and presumably cleaner border and edge.<br><br>That said, it looks like it may be a long quest to find a NM/MT Killebrew in any variety. I had a chance to buy the whole complete weiner wrapper set in new condition 3 or 4 years ago from a Twinsfest dealer, but thought the price was too stiff at the time; seeing a VGEX Killebrew trimmed from a weiner wrapper go for over $300 last week on eBay makes me wonder if that was a bad decision.

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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>I hope you find one to your liking. There is a complete set of wiener wrappers in the current Legendary auction, as well as a complete graded set of the cards on ebay. <br><br>One word of caution if you are looking to score a high graded example. The cards were manufactured with a heavy wax coating. To borrow from the Legendary auction description, cards often will grade &quot;technically lower due to minor disturbances to the protective heavy wax coating&quot;. Actually, I have seen some beautiful cards from this set just hammered by PSA for these &quot;disturbances&quot;, which usually cannot be seen unless holding the card at an angle, and which are, IMO, a perfectly natural and unobtrusive consequence of the manufacturing and handling process. That doesn't bother me, as I tend to buy the card, not the holder. What does bother me is that some have removed the wax coating--I am told it can be done with patience--and have obtained great grades, as PSA does not seem to notice or care about the difference. This goes beyond trimming cards that were meant to be hand-cut anyway, and alters the natural character and qualities of the card. Of course, people have different views as to whether this is acceptable--my point is, if it matters to you, look closely at the card to make sure you are getting what you want.

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Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>Those are great cards and wrappers but does anyone else find it disturbing there once was a product named &quot;porkette&quot;?!

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Posted By: <b>Brian Powell</b><p>Hi guys. I can tell you why you'll see complete sets of unfolded boxes (technically, the cardboard cover wrapping of the cellophane packages) of the 1961 Peters Meats Twins. After their promotion was over, the Wholesale Cards Company of New York/Connecticut purchased their leftover unfolded boxes. I believe it was Marshall Oreck that owned Wholesale Cards at the time. Several years later, Bruce Yeko bought Oreck's business.<br><br> About 1965/66, I began to receive Bruce's catalog. In about 1968-1970, I was one of the fortunate buyers of one of his Peter's Meats Twins complete sets. The boxes were pristine, though technically less than that if third-party graded. If the boxes had been through the packaging process, and then the consumer handling, I'll give you one guess what they would have looked like. The cost of a set back then was about $7.75, if memory serves me.<br><br> I only regret that I sold them a dozen years later, but not because of their value. Guys, they were simply beautiful cards. Gobs of period charm. The graphics made them unique. The tinting of the photos (colorizing) was first rate. If I were a Killebrew fan, I would value that Peter's Meats card much more than his rookie. After all, it was 1961, the Twins were brand new, and the Killer was going to have a great year, to be followed by a great career at Minnesota. The Killebrew is just as beautiful as can be. A dream card. <br><br> Honest, if I had to buy an ENTIRE SET to get a great Killebrew, I'd do it. It's like that guy on the PSA message boards that bought a 1967 New York Mets team postcard set, just to get the Seaver. He posted a scan of the Seaver. This guy was smart. That Seaver had so much eye appeal. It was breathtaking. Honestly, it puts the Topps rookie to shame. So, he's keeping the Seaver, and selling the other cards individually on eBay. Food for thought.<br><br> Take care. Respectfully, Brian Powell