1951 Topps Teams & All Stars

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Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>OK, I probably should not be allowed home alone with a scanner and time on my hands but I just noticed something.<br><br>Rob Lifson I believe, once auctioned a miscut 1951 Topps Connie Mack AS card of Ruth showing a yellow team card border, showing they were printed together. Well, I was going through my type cards today and I noticed the Connie Macks and undated Team Cards both have tannish backs, while the Major League All Stars and Dated Team cards (issued after the undated version per the ACC) have white backs.<br> <br>Here is the Ruth miscut<br><br><img src="http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p280/dsh46/51toppsconniemackmiscutruthshowi-1.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br>Here are the Connie Mack and Dated Team Card backs-they are definitely not white despite the toning issues<br><br><img src="http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p280/dsh46/CONNIEMACKASBACKTAN.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><img src="http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p280/dsh46/DATEDTEAMBACKTAN.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br>And here are the Major League All Star and Undated Team Card Backs, which are white<br><br><img src="http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p280/dsh46/MLALLSTARBACKWHITE.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><img src="http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p280/dsh46/UNDATEDTEAMBACKWHITE.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br>This seems to indicate the Connie Mack All Stars were printed last, along with the dated Team Cards. Why then, are dated team cards seemingly printed earlier than the ML All Stars, which were supposedly last in the scheme of things? Do any of these come with the other backs? I only have my collection to go on at the moment.

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Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>OK, now I found a Connie Mack with a white back. So does that mean 2 Connie Mack printings? The white backs seem to be on slicker stock too, not as rough as the tans. More backs need to be sighted-show yours for any of the tallboy 51's.<br><br><img src="http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p280/dsh46/sidetosideconniemackmiscutbackwhite.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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Posted By: <b>Mike</b><p>Nice thread Dave - hope you get more responses.<br><br>1 Connie Mack - white back.<br><br><img src="http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x51/frohme/9003.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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Posted By: <b>MikePugeda</b><p>Dave,<br><br>I have a Wagner also, but with a tan back. Tried to include scans, but the system would not allow. <br><br>Mike<br><br><br>

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Posted By: <b>Rich</b><p>I have Mack and Walter Johnson, both have white backs.

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Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>I'm pretty out of my element here on Topps issues, but has there been an uncut sheet seen to prove the yellow at bottom of the Ruth is the yellow from a team card and not just a remnant of a printers margin on the uncut sheet (or something along those lines)?<br><br>I own one Connie mack All-Star (it's Connie Mack) and he has the white cardboard back.<br><br>-Rhett

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Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>Rhett-that is a good question. The miscut was from an REA auction I believe and described as having the team card remnant. I do not think a printers margin would be gold though, it is generally neutral or white. The miscut border color looks right to me as well. Is it a 100% certainty? No, but it's pretty convincing.<br><br>Updates on the canvass:<br><br>I have been alerted to SGC Registry sets (RStuckemeyer) for both tan and white back Connie Macks but it lacks three white backs (Johnson, Mathewson, Speaker) altho' I have the White Back Johnson confirmed by someone else. I need a lot of team card inputs still so keep 'em coming.<br><br>Can anyone confirm the White Back Matty and Speaker? And does anyone know if there are back scans anywhere for the three SP ML All Star cards of Konstanty, Roberts and Stanky? FYI, along with the 2 SP Phillies, Eddie Stanky was from, yup, Philadelphia.

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Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>OK-pretty sure I found the white back Matty and Speaker from the Connie Macks on Ebay (bad scans as they look toned but white). I still have not sighted a tan back undated team card not a white back dated one and have seen zero tan back ML All Stars. Anyone?

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Dave,<br><br>All of my ML All Stars are white back. Eight of my Connie Macks are white back with Tris Speaker, James Collins, and Eddie Collins being the exceptions.<br><br>Bob<br>

[Volod]

This is an old thread, but I just noticed in looking at my 1951 Topps team cards that my undated White Sox card has an inverted back. That is, the reverse has the correct roster, but it's upside down in relation to the obverse.
I would have posted a scan, but, obviously, this anomaly can only be appreciated from seeing the card itself. So, I'm scratching my head and wondering: did Topps put the sheet in the press upside down, in which case this particular card was lucky enough to have been in exactly the right position to receive the correct obverse - just upside down? But that seems way too unlikely, the odds favoring another team on the obverse. Also, if it was not uncommon for sheets to be printed upside down, it seems that inverted backs would be rather commonplace, but I don't recall any mention of this in my readings on the set.
That would seem to rule out the alternative possibility of a printing sheet composed of just one team, wherein all cards had inverted, albeit correct, rosters on the reverse.
So, does anyone have any thoughts on an explanation, or does anyone else have cards with inverted backs?

[ALR-bishop]

I have a set of these ( 18) and both of the White Sox cards I have ( Dated and Not dated) have the inverted back you describe. The other 16 cards I have have "normal" backs

[Volod]

Ok, now I'm really stumped. Why would White Sox cards be the only team in the set with inverted backs? Was this some kind of perverse joke on Chuck Comiskey, or something? Hey, c'mon, does anyone else out there have White Sox team cards with inverted backs?

[toppcat]

I suspect this was just a mistake when the Chisox cards were set up for printing. It's little odd but the fact it's on the dated and undated versions indicates they were designed that way to me.

[Volod]

Thanks Dave, but not having much knowledge of printing processes, I'm still puzzled as to how a particular card (team) would have the reverse invariably alligned with the obverse in every print run, unless it was done intentionally. Or maybe you're saying that the White Sox mistake was overlooked on the initial printing plate, but was never fixed because it would have been too expensive to produce another plate? I guess that would make sense, but it makes you wonder why Topps would "correct" other '51 print runs, like the Red Backs (Zernial and Holmes).