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09-18-2007, 10:12 PM

Posted By: Shanon PingHere is a list of HOF eligible players in the next 5 years, which ones should make it? I will include Thome who quietly hit #500 on Sunday. R.Alomar J.Bagwell B.Larkin J.Gonzalez E.Martinez F.McGriff R.Palmiero J.Thome Sorry no pitchers.

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09-18-2007, 10:57 PM

Posted By: Marc S.I think Thome will make it. I think the steroids will haunt Palmeiro. I think Bagwell is marginal, and likely will not get inducted. Roberto Alomar I think will eventually get in, bolstered by an even .300 batting average and winning 10 of 11 Gold Gloves. Juan Gonzalez won't get in. Edgar Martinez I think will be passed; despite being one of the best hitters of this past generation, he was a DH in a quiet town. Never truly dominant. Fred McGriff should have waited for 500 HR's....as I don't think he'll get in either.

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09-18-2007, 11:42 PM

Posted By: LarryI'll go out on a limb and say that none of the players listed ever get in.

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09-19-2007, 05:42 AM

Posted By: Jim VBI don't think any of them are "locks", but Alomar may be the best bet, because he was an all around player, and considered at the top of his position for years. Most of the rest were never thought of that way. By the way, Thome just turned 37 a couple of weeks ago. He will probably play a few more years and may be at 600 before he retires, without any rumor of steroids. It will be hard to keep him out with those numbers, but I never thought of him as "great".

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09-19-2007, 07:01 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellOf those 8, I think both Alomar and Larkin are likely over time but not in first 2-3 years. Thome also likely with two more good years. Palmiero an outside shot. Gonzalez, McGriff,Bagwell, Martinez very little if any shot

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09-19-2007, 07:20 AM

Posted By: Jason LI never thought of any of them as truly great, and certainly not HOF material. Thome will be hard to keep out with his numbers, so he may get in. And I really hope Alomar doesn't even come close. To me, they are for the most part just good hitters during a hitters era.

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09-19-2007, 09:29 AM

Posted By: Paul SAm not incredibly impressed by most of this lot, in the way that I think of HOFers. However: R.Alomar - Yup. especially for his position, over 2700 hits, over 1100 rbi, 300 avg. and all those gold gloves. The Hall can't ignore all that. He's a lock, like it or not, J.Bagwell -- nope B.Larkin -- nope J.Gonzalez -- nope E.Martinez -- Nope, I don't think the voters will go for it. A true killer to be sure, but he needs at least something else to go with it. I admired him, though. McGriff -- Nope. Some pretty impressive stats but the Hall needs more for an outfielder. R.Palmiero -- hahahahahahahaha J.Thome -- Might sneak in if he reaches 600. Not first ballot.

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09-19-2007, 04:36 PM

Posted By: dennisall i can say is that the seattle mariners wasted edgar martinez true talant(batting) by not playing him until his late 20's. if he had played in his early/mid 20's he would be a lock. if we could all just get by this DH thing,and players who dh are not HOF worthy. it's a position so if you are the best at it why not hall of fame. in my opinion all those listed are better deserving of the hall of fame than about 30 current members!!!!!

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09-19-2007, 05:07 PM

Posted By: peter chaoDennis, The HOF has a similar hang-up with relief pitchers and defensive whizs. Very few get in and normally you don't get unless you are pretty close to being the best. That might happen with DHs, do you think that Edgar Martinez was the best DH? David Ortiz, Harold Baines, and Fred McGriff are pretty stiff competition. Peter C.

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09-19-2007, 05:32 PM

Posted By: jeffdrumSince we are all essentially just offering our opinion; if I was a voter, I don't see one name on the list that I am sure I would vote for! My guess is that most if not all with the exception of Thome/Alomar possibly, will not not darken the door.

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09-19-2007, 05:34 PM

Posted By: dennispeter i agree w/you 100%. yes, i do think he was the best ever and put up some of the best dh #'s. check out his first 2 dh only years 95 & 96. pretty hard to beat. <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/martied01.shtml" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/martied01.shtml</a>

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09-20-2007, 08:23 AM

Posted By: Max WederPeter It is difficult to say that Fred McGriff is one of the best DH's of all time when he played 2239 games at first base and only 175 at DH. <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcgrifr01.shtml" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcgrifr01.shtml</a>

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09-20-2007, 09:20 AM

Posted By: Phil GarryI would say that Alomar will get in after a couple of years (similar to Sandberg)and I think Bagwell will eventually get in too. After that, I'm not sure any of the others will make it.

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09-20-2007, 06:03 PM

Posted By: Chris CountsI'd put Minnie Minoso in the Hall before any of them expect maybe Alomar and Larkin. The others were simply excellent hitters playing in a juiced era. Minnie, on the other hand, was a complete player whose absence from Cooperstown defies all logical explanation ...

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09-20-2007, 06:14 PM

Posted By: peter chaoChris, I agree, however, the reason M. Minoso is not in is because the voters are looking at just his major league stats and he came up too late to accumulate heavy duty stats. Peter C.

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09-20-2007, 07:01 PM

Posted By: Jim VB<<...he came up too late to accumulate heavy duty stats>> Huh? Minnie's first game in the majors was when he was 23. Of course, he was only up for a brief time and didn't get back full time until he was 25, but who's fault was that? Besides, coming up late didn't seem to hurt Jackie Robinson. He was a rookie at 28.

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09-20-2007, 10:13 PM

Posted By: Chris Counts"Minnie's first game in the majors was when he was 23. Of course, he was only up for a brief time and didn't get back full time until he was 25, but who's fault was that?" Not Minnie's. You see, the American League really wasn't integrated until the early 50s. In fact, it was pretty much just the Dodgers, Giants and Indians who signed players in the late 40s. The Browns signed a couple guys in the 1947, but it just a publicity stunt. They wouldn't even let Home Run Brown have a bat! The Braves signed Sam Jethroe in 1950 and the White Sox acquired Minnie in '51. The rest of teams integrated between 1953 and 1959. It wasn't like the floodgates opened in '47. Also, the few teams that signed African-American players were under tremendous pressure to not bring up too many. For that reason, Ray Dandridge and Artie Wilson never had a chance to break in with the integrated Giants. In fact, Wilson had to be let go so the Giants could bring up Willie Mays. There literally was a quota ... So what kind of reception did Minnie get when he broke in with Chicago in '51 and became the first African-American player in Chicago (with Chico Carrasquel)? He led the league in getting hit by pitches for 10 of the 12 seasons he was regular. Here's amazing stat to consider: in his career, Jackie Robinson was hit by 72 pitches in 10 seasons ... and in 11 seasons as a regular, Minnie had 178 (his career total was 192) ... In spite of the fact that he became the most popular target of headhunting pitchers in the history of baseball (his record was later broken), he was arguably one of the better players in the league for a decade. He was certainly on par with with fellow HOF outfielders like Enos Slaughter, Ralph Kiner, Monte Irvin, Larry Doby, Richie Ashburn and Al Kaline. Look up his stats. He deserves to be recognized as one of baseball's greats ...

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09-20-2007, 10:18 PM

Posted By: dennisminoso was born in 1922 (baseball reference is wrong) his first full year was 1951 so he was 28. i think if you look at their career totals minoso's are better than jackie robinsons.(he played longer) i am not saying he was a better player but he put up better #'s after the age of 30 than most hall of famers. he was a victim of discrimination. if you look at his stats his rapid drop in production was caused by a severe broken leg and it took him a few years to get back to 100%. sadly he was well over 40 and the majors had no place for him. he continued to play in mexico and stared there for many more years. edited to add: chris and i are staunch supporters minnie minoso and always come to his defense.<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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09-21-2007, 06:40 AM

Posted By: Dave HornishI always like to think Minnie Minoso has not been elected to the HOF is because there is always the possibility he might come out of retirement and play one more game.....

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09-21-2007, 08:55 AM

Posted By: Chris CountsActually, Minnie is banned from playing in the majors. In fact, he's even banned from playing in the minors. In 1977, he became (debateably) the oldest player to ever get a hit (I saw it on TV at the time!). About three years later he tried it again and the commissioner told him he couldn't play after that. He tried again a few years later in the low minors and got the same response from the commissioner's office. So a few years back, he led off a game for the St. Paul Saints of the independent Northern League and drew a walk after fouling off several pitches. The commissioner couldn't do anything about it since the league is not under his jurisdiction. I suspect this episode contributes to the unfriendly reception Minnie continues to get from HOF voters ...

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10-02-2007, 02:38 PM

Posted By: MarkR.Alomar - I think his first ballot J.Bagwell - On the cusp, but no B.Larkin - Great but not HOF J.Gonzalez - Roids and injuries - Nope E.Martinez - Only DH - Nope F.McGriff - Good but not HOF R.Palmiero - Roids - No J.Thome - HOF'er - Dominant slugger I also agree Minoso should be in!!

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10-02-2007, 03:06 PM

Posted By: peter chaoHere's a few that haven't recieved enough votes yet, but who should get in: Bert Blyleven John Smoltz Lee Smith Peter C.

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10-02-2007, 04:30 PM

Posted By: dennispeter,i think smoltz is still playing? so i guess he didn't get enough votes.

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10-02-2007, 05:06 PM

Posted By: Joe DrouillardIn my opinion Thome has the best shot of the players listed in the original post of getting in. I also think with the weak class that Rich Gossage will make it next year. Best wishes, Joe

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10-17-2007, 02:33 PM

Posted By: MattCould he make it with a memorable World Series? Kenny Lofton 6 time All Star 4 time Gold Glove Winner 5 time stolen base leader been to the post-season almost every single season of his career.

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10-17-2007, 02:35 PM

Posted By: peter chaoIf the Hall of Fame is consistent with their statistical standards, Kenny should eventually get in because he has over 500 steals. Peter C.

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10-17-2007, 02:51 PM

Posted By: Phil GarryI don't believe Lofton has any chance at all for the Hall of Fame. When you mention Hall of Fame and Kenny Lofton there is far too much reasoning in trying to make him deserving of the honor. As soon as you mention a player's name that is worthy, you should immediately think HOF'er. Of course, there have been many dubious selections over the years but that doesn't make it right either.

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10-17-2007, 03:00 PM

Posted By: Paul SI agree with Phil. No go. His credentials are due to speed, and although I do love the speedsters of baseball, and certainly can't knock the all-star appearances and stolen bases, I really can't say that anything he did was truly remarkable.

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10-17-2007, 03:55 PM

Posted By: dennisBlack Ink: Batting - 15 (149) (Average HOFer ¡Ö 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 62 (395) (Average HOFer ¡Ö 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 42.7 (119) (Average HOFer ¡Ö 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 91.0 (174) (Likely HOFer > 100) Overall Rank in parentheses kenny lofton <<<<<<from baseball reference.com>>>>>>

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10-17-2007, 05:24 PM

Posted By: peter chaoLofton's overall stats look pretty good. However, he may fall in the same category as Fred McGriff and Harold Baines. Veterans who are not clearly identified with any team. For some reason solid stars who wander from team to team are downgraded simply because people do not think of them as being a star for any particular team. Peter C.

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10-17-2007, 05:40 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaI think White Sox star when I think of Harold Baines.

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10-17-2007, 08:35 PM

Posted By: Paul SHal Baines hit the hardest homer I have ever seen anybody hit in person -- at Yankee Stadium in the second half of the '80s. I was sitting a little behind and to the right of home plate. Immediately you tell something was "different" by the sound the ball made off the bat. Next, by the time the ball was out of the infield it was already incredibly high. I swear it was still rising when it hit the seats in the right field upper deck. I'll never forget it.

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10-18-2007, 05:53 AM

Posted By: Rob RayPaul S...incredible as I haven't thought of this game in years...but I was AT the same game you were,when Baines slammed a deep drive to RF against the Yanks in the late80s...I was sitting in the blue seats below the MannyHanny sign in RF when his blast took off like a high rocket and reached the upper deck,way above and to the left of where I was sitting,in what seemed like only a second or two! One of the hardest shots I've ever seen hit!....next to one Darryl hit at Yankee Stadium as a DH in late 90s that wound up in the black seats (I think against the Mariners...same game where Arod and griffey also hit 2 homers each). I also remember one Bo Jackson hit against the yanks at the stadium had a special sound to it....long poke to LF upper deck....but this Baines HR stands out in my mind,like it does in yours...for the sound it made when it was hit.And how fast it traveled. Good memory!

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10-18-2007, 07:37 AM

Posted By: Paul SRob, thanks for the corroboration. I ended up at the last minute having to go to that game myself, so finally I have someone to share the experience with, weird as that sounds. Your comment about how quickly the whole thing happened is spot on (I almost went back to edit my post about that.) Crummy night for the Yanks, too. They were beaten soundly, crowd was relatively quiet througout if I remember correctly. Baines's homer was like a bolt of lightning...no other reason to remember that night.

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10-18-2007, 08:36 AM

Posted By: Rob RayYep,I remember the Yanks lost that game. I am a Mets fan....but love baseball in general and go to any game in any stadium I have a chance to....minor or major league. Been to plenty of Yanks games. I remember the subdued crowd and the gasps of many in the crowd when Baines hit his shot. There weren;'t a lot of bright spots...save for henderson and mattingly...for the yanks in this time period. One of the best comebacks I've ever been in person for was one game ,yanks and twins in mid-80s. Yanks down,8-0. Again,sitting in RF blue seats with a bunch of peeps from my company after work one night.Yanks mounted a comeback,topped by mattingly's HR right over my head (literally,by inches. If I didnt have a beer in my hand I would have shot up and made a play for the ball) to win the game in the bottom of the 9th. Yanks win,9-8. I got caught up in the frenzy along with everyone else! One of the most exciting games I ever saw,next to Wells' perfect game (which I was lucky enough to attend...I alsmot didnt even go to that one but was talked into it)...good baseball memories! rob

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10-25-2007, 01:47 PM

Posted By: peter chaoIt's unlikely that he will make the HOF, but it is definitely possible. If Curt Schilling wins 2 games in this W.S. I'd vote for him to get into the Hall. Peter C.

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11-04-2007, 01:20 PM

Posted By: peter chaoCurt Schilling got one win in WS so he remains on the cusp for the Hall. Unfortunately, his career is winding down and he needs to get lucky to end up in the Hall. Edited: Curt, just signed w/Red Sox for another year, so he will get his opportunity to pitch in another WS. Peter C.

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11-27-2007, 01:07 PM

Posted By: peter chaoHere's a guy that hasn't been mentioned so far, Tim Raines. It's going to be controversial if he gets in next year, but he should eventually get in based on the fact that he has over 800 steals. Peter C.