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08-19-2007, 11:12 AM
Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>i tried to pick guys who played most of the decade (ie:so no rocky colavito in rt & 1959 cards)these guys were real good and did it on defense as well as offense. <br /><img src="http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l239/dcc1/team.jpg">

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08-19-2007, 02:13 PM
Posted By: <b>Neal Kane</b><p>Gil Hodges has to be on the list

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08-19-2007, 03:45 PM
Posted By: <b>PS</b><p>Good question because so many guys like Kiner and Kell made the Hall that should not have. Hodges and Minoso are clear choices. Don Newcombe may be the best pitcher in this category. Others? Klu. Maglie. Furillo. Mike Garcia. Flood and Pinson who came up late in the 50s. EDITED TO ADD Groat, Ken Boyer, Elston Howard are some others who come to mind.

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08-20-2007, 06:40 PM
Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>I'd pick Al Dark over McMillan. The others are tuff to beat.

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08-20-2007, 07:01 PM
Posted By: <b>Mark L</b><p>Peter--what would Ralph Kiner have needed to do during his tenure in order to merit inclusion? Lead the league in homers more often?

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08-22-2007, 07:01 PM
Posted By: <b>identify7</b><p>It is difficult to argue against a player who held the HR crown for 7 consecutive years.

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08-22-2007, 08:03 PM
Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>I would take Billy Pierce over Newcombe I think. Billy had a very consistent career.

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08-22-2007, 10:24 PM
Posted By: <b>identify7</b><p>Im certainly not a Yankee lover, but I am partial to guys named Gil. And I think that McDougald was better than Gilliam. He was always in the double figures in HRs and his average was probably as good.

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08-23-2007, 06:45 AM
Posted By: <b>PS</b><p>Kiner's career statistics are nothing special. From what I have read he did nothing else well and did most other things poorly. Bill James says he is one of the most undeserving people in the Hall.

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08-23-2007, 02:20 PM
Posted By: <b>Mark L</b><p>well, Kiner was the whole of the Pirates' offense for 7 years, with a high obp, high slugging percentage, etc. The career totals in OPS and slugging are still within the top 30 all time. And don't forget homers per at bat. Now, if Bill James were posting here, I would ask him to elaborate what he's got against Kiner. After all, he does well on James's own black ink and grey ink tests, as well as his HOF monitor. Yes, his career was short. He hurt his back and his career was quickly over. But when he played in good health, he was one of the best hitters in the league, which cannot be said for every hall of famer.

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08-23-2007, 03:04 PM
Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p> kiner when asking for a raise was told that pittsburg could finish last with him or without him or something to that effect.also, i think kiner was the basis for the saying that home run hitters drive cadillacs.

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08-23-2007, 03:39 PM
Posted By: <b>Jon Canfield</b><p>I would think Carl Furillo should be on the list... Almost 2000 (1910) hits and a career .299 hitter (Both of which are better than Minoso, Hodges, etc). He did make the all star team twice in the 1950's and led the league in batting average in 1953 (.344).

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10-15-2007, 02:24 AM
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>There's no reason for Kiner to be part of this discussion because he is in the Hall of Fame.<br /><br />Peter C.

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10-15-2007, 04:45 AM
Posted By: <b>howard</b><p>"Musial, Williams, Dimaggio and Kiner - these were the greatest outfielders of this period"<br /><br />Bill James referring to the years 1947-1951<br /><br />Pretty good company. If James thinks Kiner was one of the least deserving hall of famers it has nothing to do with his ability and everything to do with the length of his career.<br /><br />Howard

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10-16-2007, 07:12 PM
Posted By: <b>pas</b><p>Actually James' criticism has nothing to do with that and everything to do with his opinion that Kiner was awful at every other aspect of the game. If I can dig out my book I will provide a synopsis.