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08-10-2007, 12:11 PM
Posted By: <b>Shanon</b><p>I know there is no exact science to this as everyone has their own ideas who belong, but here is my team.<br /><br />C- Berra<br />1st- Hodges (Killebrew was a non-factor till the 59'season)<br />2nd- J.Robinson<br />SS- Banks<br />3rd- Mathews<br />LF- Musial<br />CF- Mantle<br />RF- Aaron<br /><br />SP- Ford

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08-11-2007, 12:06 AM
Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>i'd put musial at 1b and add willie mays to the outfield. hard to leave spahn and williams off any 50's all star team.

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08-11-2007, 09:53 AM
Posted By: <b>Neal Kane</b><p>may have been the most overlooked HOF player of the 50's. He may have also had the best overall numbers as an outfielder. I think he hit the most HR's during the decade as well, but it is hard to put him in the outfield. <br /><br />

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08-11-2007, 11:13 AM
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>C-Berra<br />1B-Musial<br />2B-Robinson(close over Fox)<br />SS-Banks<br />3B-Mathews<br />LF-Williams<br />CH-Mays<br />RF-Mantle<br /><br />P-Spahn

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08-11-2007, 04:30 PM
Posted By: <b>identify7</b><p>I'd put Robinson and Mantle on the bench.<br />Robinson because he really was not very productive after 1954.<br />And Mantle because his popularity has little to do with his on field performance.<br />I'd much rather see Musial in the OF, and Hodges on 1B. Hodges out HRed and out RBIed Mantle by a mile in the 50s.<br />And on 2nd, I'd go for Schoendienst.

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08-12-2007, 09:17 PM
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>You really can't intermix players from both Leagues, therefore......<br /><br />AL (in batting order)<br /><br />ss....Rizzuto<br />c.....Berra<br />cf....Mantle<br />lf....Williams<br />1b....Mize<br />rf....Colavito<br />3b....Kell<br />2b....Nel. Fox<br />p.....Ford<br /><br />NL (in batting order)<br /><br />2b....Jackie Robinson<br />ss....Banks<br />1b....Musial<br />cf....Snider<br />rf....Mays (because of his throwing ability)<br />lf....Aaron<br />3b....Mathews<br />c.....Campanella<br />p.....Koufax (the pitcher he became in LA)<br /><br />TED Z <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

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08-20-2007, 02:33 PM
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>You really can't put Koufax on the team. He really didn't get going until the '60s.<br /><br />Peter C.

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08-20-2007, 03:13 PM
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Excuse me.....but, he did pitch for Brooklyn in 1955-57. Therefore, by definition he is also a pitcher of the '50s.<br />And, I remember seeing him pitch back then; and, to me he showed the potential to be a great pitcher<br /><br />TED Z

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08-20-2007, 04:27 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Both of Ted's line-ups are right on, but Koufax is the one enigma. He had tremendous stuff from the beginning, but didn't really learn how to pitch until about 1961.

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08-20-2007, 06:52 PM
Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>In the 50s, Koufax couldn't find home plate with a cane and a seeing-eye dog.

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08-20-2007, 07:03 PM
Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>Aside from that, the subject is "All-Star Team of the Decade: 1950's".<br />How many all-star games did Koufax appear in during that decade?<br />Right. Koufax was not a 50s all-star. So, he does not belong on the All-Star Team of the Decade: 1950's. <br /><br />Yikes, the more I look, the less I understand your selections, Ted.<br />For example, Johnny Mize played thru the 1953 season only. And during the 50s he hit about .260 with 42 total homers for the decade. This doesn't seem worthy of mention, much less the starting 1B job for the AL.<br /><br />I better not look any further.

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08-20-2007, 09:21 PM
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>I followed Johnny Mize's career very closely, I also met him several times including at his home in Demorest, Georgia.<br />Your NY Giants (Leo Durocher & Co.) made the biggest mistake in August of '49 in letting him go to the Yankees.<br />Do you realize that in 1949 thru 1953 (except 1951), your Giants could have been the Nat'L winners and perhaps, the<br /> World Champs (instead of the Yankees) had they kept Mize ? He was unbelievable in the clutch, averaging 1.5 Runs<br /> produced for every game during his prime years (1936 - 1948). Match that performance with any other Major Leaguer ?<br /><br />Look up his total career, talk about "Mr Clutch", in the 1952 World Series he single-handedly beat the powerful Dodger<br /> team. Tell me how do you release a guy who led with 51 HR's and 138 RBI's in 1947. Then followed it up in 1948 leading<br /> with 40 HR's and 125 RBI's ? ?<br />Explain that one....I bet you, you can't ? And, don't tell me about Tookie Gilbert or Whitey Lockman, who replaced Mize <br />at 1b, they were in no-ways any equal to Big Johnny Mize. <br /><br />Your Giants big loss....my Yankees big gain....I sense some "sour grapes"....Gil, ole buddy.<br /><br />TED Z<br /><br />

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08-20-2007, 09:39 PM
Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>I think Spahn has to be the NL pitcher, or Robin Roberts who was probably the best pitcher for the first half of the decade.

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08-20-2007, 10:17 PM
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>I agree with you, you go with Roberts when you need a righthander, and if the situation called for a Southpaw you go with Spahn.<br /><br />But, I chose Koufax because I knew he would be great. He was only 19 years old when he started and it took him several years to <br />develop and some good coaching to become the star he was.<br /><br />Right from the beginning it was evident that Koufax would become a very effective pitcher. His pitching mechanics (motion) and<br /> delivery were very deceiving to the batters. He would coil up his 6:2 frame and then uncoil it like no other pitcher I've ever seen.<br />You have to see films of his pitching style to appreciate what I am saying. Yes, just like Nolan Ryan, Koufax was wild in his first<br /> few years. He had as many Walks as Strikeouts, but gradually he gained his control and his K's to BB ratio was an amazing 5 to 1.<br /><br />I'll take Koufax on my team any time, any day, any year.....I hope you are reading this Gil.<br /><br />TED Z

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08-20-2007, 10:31 PM
Posted By: <b>identify7</b><p>Ted: very funny, but off topic.<br />The subject matter is "All-Star Team of the Decade: 1950's"<br />What did Mize do in the 1950s which qualifies him as a starting first baseman over guys like Hodges, Musial and other stars of the<br />NINETEEN FIFTIES?<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />

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08-20-2007, 10:38 PM
Posted By: <b>identify7</b><p>Ted, I too was there and although I did not see anything special about this speedballing wildman, the Dodger management agreed with you.<br /><br />Instead of sending him down to get some seasoning, they kept him in the majors to be tutored by the best which the Dodger organization could put together (which was substantial judging from the pitching prowess of their staff throughout the decade).<br /><br />But just like Mize, what did Koufax do in the <br />NINETEEN FIFTIES?<br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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08-21-2007, 01:50 AM
Posted By: <b>Brian Lindholme</b><p>Not meaning to beat up Ted because he has mostly great choices in his list...<br /><br /><br />~Mize...wrong decade, but maybe not enough in the 40's either.<br />~Koufax...wrong decade<br />~Who would beat out Willie Mays if Say Hey wasn't such a rifle arm? This sounds like Carl Furillo almost made the list...Mays is one of the players who make it any way you slice it...and that could go for the 60's as well.<br /><br />Gil Hodges and Warren Spahn should be included in the 50's greatest players in my opinion.<br /><br />Anyone else think that Ted's NL team overpowers the AL team by a significant margin?<br />Someone ought to run this lineup through one of those computer simulations and see who comes out on top !<br /><br />Great topic...let's see some more decades in another thread. I'll be thinking about my 60's 70's and 80's teams....<br /><br />Brian L<br />familytoad<br />

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08-21-2007, 09:25 AM
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>1st....Willie Mays playing at the old Polo Grounds with a CF distance marker of 483 feet was well suited for a CF position.<br />But, in any other stadium you want your best arm in RF.....I don't think I have to explain why. Therefore, on my team, I <br />want him in RF.....and that allows me to have Duke Snider in CF. Any team of the '50s without Duke Snider in the line-up<br /> is ridiculous.<br /><br />2nd.....As a Yankee fan, I must admit I really liked Gil Hodges; and, every year that those Veterans Committee dudes do not<br />elect him to the BB HOF bothers me a lot. However, I'll never forget Johnny Mize during his tenure as a Yankkee (1949 to 1953).<br />Sure, if you guys look at his numbers at the end of his tremendous career, they don't look impressive.<br />But, as I said in a prior post here....producing 1.5 runs per game....day in and day out....over a career of 14 years is an amazing<br /> testament to a ballplayer's ability to come thru in the "clutch".<br /><br /> And, the 1952 World Series stands out in my mind to Mize's clutch ability. At age 39, he pinch-hit two HR's to beat the Dodgers<br /> in two games, another HR to win a 3rd game and in a 4th game he hit a ball that Carl Furillo jumped into the RF stands to steal<br /> a 4th HR from Mize. Needless to say, Johnny Mize was awarded the 1952 WS MVP for his tremendous performance.<br /><br />Anyways, why am I being criticized over the choice of Johnny Mize, since I chose him for my AL team ?<br />Hodges is a NL player, and I had to go with Stan Musial at 1st base. I don't think any of you will question this choice.<br /><br />TED Z

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08-21-2007, 04:33 PM
Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>Koufax was a sight to see on the mound, no question. I believe it was Buzzy Bavasi (or someone of that ilk) who said he had cried only two times in his life, once was the first time he saw the Sistine Chapel, the other was the first time he saw Koufax throw a fast ball. Not sure if that is real or apocryphal.

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08-21-2007, 05:31 PM
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>OK guys....let's review Koufax's situation with Brooklyn. He was given a substantial contract to sign with the Dodgers<br />at the mere age of 19. And, due to a dumb clause in his contract, he had to stay with the Dodgers, instead of getting<br /> the proper grooming and experience in the farm system. The kid didn't have a chance while he was in Brooklyn. They <br />pitched him infrequently during 1955-57. Picture yourselves as a teenager in the "Bigs", in the biggest stage in Major Lge<br /> BB ? He was the new kid on the block and the Dodgers were doing alright with Newcombe, Erskine, Podres and Maglie. <br /><br />When the Dodgers went west and added Don Drysdale to their staff, Koufax was beginning to live up to his potential,<br />as he started maturing. Also, my understanding is that Drysdale was an influencing factor on Koufax. And, of course<br /> 1961 was Koufax's "breakout" year. From 1961-67 his won-lost record was an amazing 129-47. And, let's not forget<br /> his 4 consecutive years (1962-65) of no-hitters.<br /><br />Yes, he did it all in the 1960's; but, given the proper farm experience, he could have done it in the 1950's....also. <br /><br />TED Z<br />

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08-21-2007, 07:52 PM
Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>Mize was a great clutch hitter, and a darn good one even in non-clutch situations. Nobody is disputing this. And the Giants sure could have used him. No one is disputing that either.<br /><br />The same is true for Koufax, he was a tremendous pitcher. But if selections can be made on the basis of "what ifs", you really can not find a more overpowering starting AL pitcher to go against Koufax than Herb Score.<br /><br />But Score is a true whatif. Koufax and Mize had their day. But that "day" was in decades other than the subject matter selected by the thread's author. If you can't play by the rules ...<br /><br />I've got no beef with Snider. No one hit more HRs than him in the 50s. And other than Snider, no one hit more HRs in the 50s than Hodges. And putting Mays in RF may be a good choice with this crew.<br /><br />Where I start diverging from your thinking Ted, is where you ignore 50s productivity. Based on that criteria (50s production) Robinson wasn't half the player that Schoendinst was at 2B.<br /><br />There is more, but lets see if this flys <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Edited to add:<br />And you are correct: both Hodges and Musial are not valid replacements for Mize. I forgot that you broke this out into seperate leagues.<br /><br />And Brian is right. The AL looks weak. If Mize goes, the punch drops plenty, and Mize is gone in my thinking. Who can replace him? The AL was weak at 1B + SS throughout the decade. I always liked Vic Wertz, especially watching him try to win the '54 series single handedly. He hit .500, he was the one to hit the ball on which Mays made The Catch (and throw). But really, he doesn't have the punch needed. Noone does. The most that can be brought to bear is Roy Sievers. You give up a lot in batting average tho, compared to Vic Power or Mickey Vernon.<br /><br />And Rizzuto has the same problem that Jackie Robinson has. He didn't play out the decade. I think about '56 was his last year. And the only other choice is the no field, all hit Harvey Kuenn; a .300+ hitting sieve.<br /><br />

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08-22-2007, 02:58 AM
Posted By: <b>Brian Lindholme</b><p>Sorry if you felt "criticized" in fact had you not put some solid choices in front of our keyboards, yours might be dismissed with "are you crazy, don't you know anything about baseball" type comments:)<br /><br />Certainly the athletes you chose are worthy of being on some list of great players.<br /><br />We are most likely nit-picking because...hey that's what we do here instead of helping with the laundry (a task I am avoiding as we speak!!<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />You got me on Mize , since you picked him on the AL team. I'm not sure who makes a better replacement. Sometimes a player dominates a decade without playing for 10 years. Surely Koufax is a great example of that in the 60's.<br />Also, so many of the "Great Players" lists choose 3 outfielders rather than designating LF, CF, RF that your explanation makes perfect sense for Say Hey. My point was that he was going to make the team somewhere!<br /><br />Again, this is a fun topic.<br />I hope others chime in with their selections. It's great to debate on guys like Vic Power or Roy Sievers too sometimes. Hey what about Bobby Avila for AL second base. I've got his 57 Topps right here in front of my keyboard! <br />According to their bio writers, "Bobby only needed one minor season to be ready for the big time" !!<br />That's gotta mean sumthin' !!<br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />Brian L<br />familytoad

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08-22-2007, 10:30 AM
Posted By: <b>Paul S</b><p>To me, it has always seemed a combination of arbitrary timing and circumstances when picking a specific decade that would have to start and end with the same number 50-59, 60-69, etc. This seems to penalize players -- and hence those who put these teams together (when playing these types of fun all-star teams lineups) who may have come into the majors in the middle of a decade, give or take a few years. Why not pick any ten-year stretch of years? Then we can compare those teams to each other. This treats players like Mize and J. Robinson much more equally. It's not Mize's fault that WWII, ergo, post-war, happens to be in the middle of a decade. (Hey, let's all blame the Christian calendar! Let use the Aztec or Jewish calendars instead!) Essentially we are eliminating some great playing years and players. So, pick your best 10-year stretch. I'd expect to see some killer lineups.

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08-22-2007, 11:02 AM
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>I dom't know how old you are......but, I am old enough to remember Bobby Avila very well in the early 1950's. He was always<br /> batting .300+ and was part of a great Indians team. In fact, that great 1954 season when the AL Champion Indians set the<br /> record for most games won....Avila led the league with a .341 BA.<br /><br />And, I like your suggestion of coming up with great teams comprised of great players that were not the big names in the game.<br /><br />TED Z

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08-22-2007, 11:10 AM
Posted By: <b>Paul S</b><p>I too like that idea of solid players who didn't have star names. The Vic Power example is perfect. I have his cards from pretty much every year and different brands, and he played a long time, with solid stats, yet his is a name that never comes up. I should only have had his career!